90 new of 406 responses total.
Thanks, Sarah! <huggles sarah>
<hugs Jim, then gives him a macho clap on the back> Congratulations, Jim! I know what it's like to have a highly un-homo-friendly family...I remember a couple of years ago, watching something on t.v. regarding the Gay Olympics, and hearing the following two comments come rapid-fire from two family members: "Now, THOSE are the Olympics that NEED to be bombed!" "Where's a well-placed nuclear missile when you need one?" It's like, two hard smacks in the face right in a row. I decided then and there that most of my family is never going to know about my sexual orientation until I'm ready to finally say, "To hell with them" and let them go. Because I know I'll be totally shunned by them. Anyway, if you need to talk or anything, feel free to drop me an e-mail. <hugs Jim again>
glad to see ya come out of the woodwork.. 'lot of of have been there. and what? shall we make it a group hug? ;) ta-ta
I'd like that. I'd like that a lot.
<gypsi hugglepounces Bob and drags Jim, Dale, and Brighn in with them>
<belatedly joins the hugglepouncepile> Congratulations, Jim, and I hope we see more of you around the conference.
You will now that I have the courage to be proud of who I am. For so long, I have felt like this was weird, but I now know that I'm not the only one who is bi. I am in very good company.
Jim, I am SO pleased, especially since it's not easy to be bi even in the community. Of course, you see that I do empathize, being bi myself :) I think I had hints before I was twenty-- but I was very concious about when you were-- I was 18 or so. Feel free to also send e-mail if you need to talk-- I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say about how you are and how things are going. btw, my wife and I have come even closer to accepting ourselves (she is bi too) and finding solutions that work.
I forgot to add one more little detail. <jumps back in with the sharks> I'm also a Transgendered person. Ok, I've said it. No getting around that. In addition to being bi, I have had feelings that I am someone else, of a different gender. It's not because of anything I wear, or can't seem to grow, just that my brain thinks in girl mode, and thinks I am a girl. I've done a lot of soul searching and I always come back to the same place. I guess it came into being when I turned 14. It wasn't as strong as it is now. I kept it under wraps because in 1974, there was no Boy George, Elton John still appeared to be straight and no one in Detroit talked about being bi and transgendered. My father, though he was a stellar dad, still would not have approved of what I was doing, and you know about my Mom and sister. It wasn't until I was 22 that I ditched my plain white jockeys for panties. It has been that way since 1982 right until today. I have never made any apologies for that I am not about to start. Lately in recent years I have become obsessed with bras, slips and all the other things. I've been thinking about the difference between transvestism, and transgenderism; I think I come down more on the TG side than the TV side, since wearing panties and other things is the norm not the exception, and I get no thrill at all from wearing lingerie. I just like it. However, labels are for dogfood, not people. well, there it is. Thanks to lumen for giving me the courage to do this. I don't think I ever would have if not for him. I know you'll all be understanding about this, and thanks for that.
I commend you on your courage, Jim. I know how hard this has been for you, deciding to come out on both issues at the same time. You are breaking new ground in this conference. Is it time for a separate item on TG and TV issues? Or maybe on how clothing and gender interact? How would other people feel if they were forced all their lives to wear clothing that did not express the real them? (For instance, how would a butch woman feel about having to wear frilly dresses and high heels? Are there gay men who would feel really awkward in a business suit or tuxedo? Are women given a wider choice in how they dress than are men and how has this changed over the years?)
well, generally, women can wear anything and get away with it. 'frilly dresses' to 'tuxedos' jeans and a 'T' to punk-wear guys have (socially) about half the choices
He has a point. I've even worn boxers at times because they're more comfortable under certain clothes, but the only comment I got was, "Chicks are cute in boxers/men's clothing." That was from my boyfriend at the time. I knew a couple of guys who wore long, "hippie" skirts in the summer because they are so much cooler than shorts, and they never got razzed because everyone got so used to seeing it. Plus, it *was* a2. =)
*makes a mental note to take a trip to a2 very soon* :)
One guy used to wear kilts to contra dances. How about a separate item on clothing, and one on transgender issues? I will start the latter.
I also agree with Bob-- guys really are socially limited in what they are allowed to wear. Gay men will try to push the envelope, but even they only do so in certain circumstances and environments.
(kilts aren't considered skirts though. <grins>)
I imagine the main reason that guys have "half the clothing options" is that most styles of dresses would look terrible on a guy's body. Skirts are different - I remember not too long ago seeing a skater-clothing company trying to get skirts for guys to catch on, I guess on the basis that they're like baggy jeans, only even baggier. But I can't think of a single style of dress that would look decent on someone with no hips and no breasts.
I'm an online transvestite. I have a female personthat can only really be expressed in fantasy and text, because her body type is so different than mine. (female persona, that is)
Why is your physical body so important to how you can express yourself?
It's not just the styles of clothing that would look good on one gender
or another, it's also the fabrics, and patterns, and even the amount of
variation from the basic type of clothes. I've often bemoaned that men's
clothing tends to be far too dull for my tastes. That doesn't mean that I've
any desire to wear women's clothing, merely to expand the fabrics, colors,
patterns, and selection of men's.
Okay, that much is true; I've often had the same complaint.
That's just another facet of the dilemma. More often than not, men's clothing tends to remain in conservative colors-- the only noteable exception is the necktie; you may have noticed that much splashier combinations of colors have been accepted for business and church wear. I think the main thing is that society generally discourages men from enjoying fashion-- clothes are generally meant to be functional, and if it is fashionable, it is more to create a particular professional image. Clothing is more serious or suitable than fun.
I think the physical body is important in how you can express yourself because it's honestly the first thing people see. Your clothing can make a statement about who you are. If you're going to a job interview you may find it helpful to 'dress the part,' you wouldn't want to go to a high class office building and wear torn jeans and a t-shirt. <shrugs> If you want attention you can wear 'flashy' clothes, or tight-fitting ones or low-cut ones. Whether you really like it or not, or personally care about it, other people will attribute things about you (initially at least) based on what you wear.
<bob mumbles somehting about needing a new wardrobe tehn wanders off> p.s. for sarah, all the chicago-visitning A2'ers i know have skirts haven't got me in one, yet... we'll see
Congrats, Jim. Sorry, I'm so late, but I've been too busy to be able to think.
Right, your physical first impression is a factor of how you dress and
how well you're built to wear what you're wearing, along with how you hold
yourself and move ...
I'm still miles from going out "dressed". In fact, I'd have a hard time passing for female. It'd be like Orson Welles trying to pass as Twiggy. That dog just don't hunt, and I'm cool with it. However, I can still wear nightgowns to bed, a bra and a pair of panties under what looks like male clothes but are actually womens. I'm very comfortable with that. One day, I would like to have a dress just for around the house, or maybe a suit of some kind. Kiwanis is an excellent place to find these things since I really don't want to put any money into it. I would like to have a knee length skirt, as well.
Obviously you are not wearing things in order to affect how other people treat you, but to make yourself feel right. Would you want to try explaining how men's and women's clothing affects how you feel about yourself? I expect almost everyone cares about what they are wearing even when nobody else is looking at them.
I wear clothes for comfort. I have not worn a suit in at least 20 yrs,
at my Dad's funeral. When I got home, the suit went into the closet, and was
never heard from again. Since then I've been wearing jeans and t-shirts almost
exclusivly. I've also been spending some time in sweats. I used to love jeans.
I just need to buy a few pairs.
I don't know what prevents me from wanting a suit. Maybe it's the sight
of Dad lying there in his casket with clean fingernails and well groomed.
Maybe I'm rejecting that image. I don't know. I never saw my Dad act
comfortable in a suit, and as soon as the event that required that suit was
over, off it would come. I don't think my dad ever had these feelings, but
I sure did.
The feelings were strongest when my sister got to do girl things, and I
didn't. I was left to go play with the dogs, or my non-existant friends. My
childhood was a hell, and so are dealing with these feelings. At least I'm
not alone here.
I always wanted to wear a skirt and pantyhose, or wear a nice jacket with
padded shoulders with a pair of nice designer jeans, that is, over my standard
issue bra and panties.
Actually, it is quite acceptable for a guy to wear a nice jacket over jeans with a t-shirt. It's dressy without being dressed up. A lot of people do that when going out for the evening.
It's surprisingly cheap to do, too, if you're willing to shop at Value
Village for sport jackets from the sorts of people who neverwear them.
Jdeigert refuses to wear a suit, he does not own one and will not go to
anything that requires one. He wore a tie once in 15 years, when required
by the chorus. His brother handpaint it, in fancy script down the front,
mirror image. It read BULLSHIT (nobody noticed, the script was that fancy).
I was forced to wear panty hose to weddings when I was little and have not
worn any since. I was also required to wear skirts to school for 13 years
in all weather. I wish people would not dictate what other people had to
wear.
Omni, other than suits, can you think of any clothing that is now
restricted only to men, and if so, how would you feel about wearing it?
Tuxedos come to mind, and you wouldn't catch me in one in a hundred years. No sir. I am one of those people who is happy in a t-shirt, and jeans and little else. I never liked dressing up (that is in male clothes.) When I was in military school, I had a uniform to wear, and I really hated it. I had to wear it home, and when I was traveling on Greyhound to Monroe and back. Maybe all this is coming from me wanting to distance myself from my childhood as much as possible. In any case, I'm having fun with what I'm doing and as long as I'm breaking any laws, who really cares what I wear?
Tuxedoes are just fancy dressed up suits, Omni. I'd like to see you in an evening gown. For ideas I suggest the movie, "To Wong Foo..." That movie about the three cross dressers. Lot's o material there, I'd guess. (don't ask me. I'm geneticallly female)
<rotfl> No, you don't want to see me in an evening gown. That's really a scary image, even for me. I'm your basic t-shirt, jeans, bra and panties sort. I saw parts of To Wong Foo, and I was turned off by it. I really don't need ideas on what to wear. I have been wearing the same basic thing for a long time, and I know what works. There are certain occaisions where I'd like to wear a skirt instead of pants (The last few days, I really wanted to wear a skirt just so I could be cooler). I've been ignoring my feelings for so long it's not funny. I need to get in touch with my feelings on this and start being sensitive again.
resp:347 I'll have to consider that, then. I wonder if it's true that most white guys don't seem to enjoy wearing suits-- the term has been used to label those whose wear them quite disparagingly. Note that dress-down days are more the norm. I don't remember too many guys who wore zoot suits. Black guys seemed to be crazy about them for a while when Arsenio Hall wore one. They were in really loud colors, too. What I found interesting was that a few of the gay and bi guys I knew wore suits and dress clothes of non-conservative shades. I have this theory that some folks think straight guys don't wear purple suits. I don't know. Regarding tuxedos, I like 'em.
Tuxedos are yummy, but I highly prefer a vest and button cover to a cumberbund and bow tie.
See, I love business suits but I hate tuxedoes. Go figure.
...and i just love to play dress-up given an opportunity
<laughs> Yeah, cummerbunds are kind of goofy looking. They're one of those pieces of clothing that make you wonder what inspired someone to try wearing something that looks like that.
r 346- You misunderstood. I was talking about wearing women's designer jeans, a woman's jacket, and boots, with all the appropriaate lingerie. About 2 yrs ago, I bought silicone breast enhancers to fill out my bras. They have made a world of difference, and go a long way with completing the image.They are cheap, and don't fit really well. I would like, and I am planning on getting a more expensive pair that will go a long way with my look.
<birdy also loves to play dressup> Bob - one of these years, we should go to an opera in Toronto and get all decked out. It would make us feel "upper class" for one night. =)
yer on, gonna haffta go 1st class all da way, and eat mac and cheese for a month afterwards ;) BTW re: #356 cummerbunds were meant to be worn pleats up to catch any crumbs that may have fallen before thet got to you lap, or stained the shirt.. one of those items that usta haffa function
Wow...most impressive...
re:359 No, cumberbunds were used by theater ushers who put ticket stubs in them. Now you know why the folds point up :) Trust me, this is true
Hmm. Merriam-Webster says the term originated in 1616 from the Hindi
"kammar" (waist) and "band" (band). Apparently it was originally, well, a
waistband.
Woohoo! I'll track down a schedule. =)
re:362 Ah, well, that's quite possible. But I was referring to its recent incarnation.
Hi hi hi. You all probably know who I am already. LOL Ha ha, John, your dictionary definition of cummerbund matches mine.
Hey Melissa, I see you did manage to find your way here. :)
Yuh....once I realized it wasn't gbl... LOL
<grins>
Whatchoo grinning at? :)
Nuffin
Someone's got an exposed nuffin here?
Hi to all grex users
HEYA! wow this conf. be dying again
Heh, silence = death.
Well don't wake the dead.
<smirks> I believe now would be the time for someone to claim that the conference is only napping, or comatose, or having a near-death experience, or posessed by demons, or some such.
Me personally, I think it is undergoing psychiatric help, and can't be bothered with itself as it searches for it's untold childhood trama.
Yeah, that must be it.
either that or the fw was marching around in washington d.c. last weekend and also managed to lose two passwords. :)
I sincerely hope that this conference is only napping, and not truly dead. Mostly, because I'm relatively new here, only been grexing for a little over a month. I've seen many of you posting in other places, or in party, so now it's time to introduce myself. I'm Mickey, I'm gay (never been with a MOTOS) and married to a great guy for 10 years now. We live in Austin, Texas. It's really good to be here. Here's hoping together we can spark some friendly discussion in this conference, soon.
It's sleeping. There are obviously people who are reading it... start a convo and maybe we'll pick up on it. Welcome, btw.
I'm still here. =)
Where am I? :)
I don't know
I am here, therefore, none of you can be, because I am the only one in the room at the moment. To Eat Good Coffee, press here. Thank you very much.
<bob presses for good coffee> .. and hopes it aint too cold yet
<nyurgh....> Coffee?
No, dear. No coffee for you. Go back to sleep.
I'm not even human until I have coffee. You really don't want to
deprive some people of their morning fix, trust me ... :)
You shouldn't really trust me to run a coffeemaker until I've had some coffee. Nor should you trust me to make breakfast until I've had something to eat. It's a real dilemma.
Clearly, you need a servant.
Hey if he gets one I want one too!!!
I can make coffee, but don't _ever_ anyone ask me to cook. Generally speaking, though, I make a bad servant.
As in "...time to find another servant"? Or as in "...time for a spanking"?
User void, the sole fairwitness of this conference, has resigned. I'll be around to answer questions, install a new fw if the users here want to elect one, etc.
I am from India I am a not sure which category I am in in, but definitel know i like females...
Hello, thoma!
I'm Jonathon (also known variously as Jon and Isaac, the latter of which is my middle name). I don't generally care to define my gender or sexuality. If stuck in the usual 6-cell matrix, I go with 'bisexual male', although I rather prefer just plain 'queer'. (For one thing, I find 'bi' to be an ugly-sounding word, and 'bisexual' not only not-euphonious[1], but strange and difficult to say.[2]) I've very few male friends or acquaintances, so while I know I'm physically/sexually attracted to men, I've never dated any. OTOH, I've had relationships w/ women last between 3 days and 7 months; as of this writing my current relationship is a week old. She's at least the third bi girl i've dated (at least one of whom now dates only women). [1] Does anyone know what the antonym of the eu- prefix (meaning good or true) is? Shirley the word isn't simply 'disphonious'. . . . [2] Don't know about anyone else, but when I read, I hear the words spoken aloud, so yes, the audible sound of words really /does/ affect my writing that much. . .
(I think the opposite of "euphonious" is "cacaphonous.")
Hi. I'm new here. I'm 24 years old. Born and raised in the Philippines but I'm currently living in San Francisco. Hope everyone is having a great time.
Hi and welcome. Things have been a bit quiet here of late, but you never know... maybe some other folks will come out of the woodwork.
i wasnt really expecting any respons but thanks. i checked the last message and indeed it was dated way back 19whatever. so anyways... i have to admit the system is kinda hard to use. hope it's not what's keeping everybody from writing.
Try asking a question and you might get some answers to it. Or start by telling us about yourself.
Hello everyone. How are you all doing? I have just started usng this program, and it seems that nobody has been here all to recently except for a few people. Am I the only one left? Sole surviver? Maybe it would help if we got more people to join and use tis program...hmm? Please respond! ?
Lots of people are left. If you start a discussion about some topic other than whether there are people here, you might get more responses.
Hi.
You have several choices: