Grex General Conference

Item 33: Where's Grex's Previous Hardware?

Entered by glitch on Tue Jun 5 21:00:18 2018:

Whatever happened to Grex's old Sun hardware? I hack on old systems for fun
and the thought hadn't crossed my mind until the other day, when a friend and
I were talking about the old Sun4 VME Grex (turns our we both had accounts,
but didn't know each other!).
35 responses total.

#1 of 35 by cross on Wed Jun 6 14:27:41 2018:

That's a good question. I donated several older SPARC systems over
the years; as far as I know, they disappeared into a black hole.


#2 of 35 by glitch on Fri Jun 8 16:03:54 2018:

I seem to remember participating in a "RAM drive" when Grex was still on sun4
hardware -- 1 MB 30 pin parity SIMMs were needed to fill up another VME memory
board :)

I do a fair bit of work with the Vintage Computer Federation museum at InfoAge
Science Center in New Jersey, they may be interested in the fate of Grex's
old hardware. If not, I'd personally be interested in it, especially as we're
coming up on the 50th anniversary of UNIX and I've been thinking about doing
something related to that for VCF East next year.


#3 of 35 by tod on Sun Jun 10 18:02:08 2018:

There are probably some old confeerences where you can find out their fate.
I donated an old Sun 3/260 with a bunch of odds and ends like graphic cards
ram cards, CD carousel SCSI etc back in the 90's.  When the boxes went
from mini fridge to pizza box there was a big schism which I didn't 
participate.  Solaris 2 was showing up as backwards compatible on Ultras
but also BSD was catching up.  

glitch, have you been to Powells Tech bookstore in Portland, OR? It's a fun
time travel.


#4 of 35 by gelinas on Fri Jun 15 22:44:59 2018:

Some of it was given away, and some of it was sold. I think some of it went
home with STeve Andre. It's been a long time since I thought about that
hardware.


#5 of 35 by tod on Sat Jun 16 19:23:37 2018:

re #4
Tube radios grab me more than the first RISC stuff.  Lately I've been
playing with old bakelite AM radios.  The fickle world of soldering
and tubes.


#6 of 35 by walkman on Fri Oct 5 15:19:55 2018:

Vintage SPARC machines are pretty cheap on ebay but I bet a raspberry pi
has more horsepower and you can run it with a phone charger.
*snicker*

I once had a SPARCclassic but I donated it to Salvation Army about 15
years ago. It was pretty nifty - maybe a collector item for people who
have space for such things.


#7 of 35 by tod on Fri Oct 5 17:09:51 2018:

I would like one so I can gut it and make it into a guitar.


#8 of 35 by ball on Fri Oct 5 20:46:31 2018:

    I recycled my SPARCstations but it has been fascinating
to read about the unusual combinations of boards that made
up the sun3 and SPARC hosts for Grex.  I get the impression
that some of them would have surprised engineers at Sun.


#9 of 35 by tod on Sat Oct 6 13:21:02 2018:

When I still had the Sun 3 260, I met a Sun engineer from Cary, NC at
a party in Greenville (ECU).  She and I killed a keg together and talked
about the fun of running C on RISC.  And about the pain of SCSI vs SCSI-2
with the jeweled CD drives.  I used it mostly to heat my apartment in
Plymouth, MI..in the Winter I could crack the window and get just the right
temp in the apartment.  Moisture was still and issue though.
Here's a page janc drew up with is very underrated.
https://www.unixpapa.com/grextech/pumpkin97/


#10 of 35 by cross on Sat Oct 6 13:33:46 2018:

sun3 gear has mostly disappeared from the world; it was MC68k based;
a 3/260 probably had a 68020 in it.

RISC is a good idea. More people should try it. The more people find
strange speculative execution and other bugs in x86, the more I think
we'd be better off with a different archicture overall. Note that
RISC-V is not currently vulnerable to speculative execution attacks,
though in fairness they don't actually have a lot of hardware.


#11 of 35 by papa on Sun Oct 7 09:40:37 2018:

resp:9 Nice pics from 20 years ago.


#12 of 35 by tod on Mon Oct 8 23:46:43 2018:

re #10
Correct, 68020.  It has 12 VME slots with capacity for 32MB (using 4MB
daughter boards.)  The graphics board and the ethernet board were the
most exciting parts, imo.  I had to hunt down an RGB converter for the
CRT which itself was almost $100.


#13 of 35 by cross on Thu Oct 11 13:05:55 2018:

32MB?! Let me put on my copy of "Flip Your Wig" and plug in a
16" black and white CRT.... Stylin'.


#14 of 35 by tod on Mon Oct 15 16:50:42 2018:

The CRT was as big as Florida


#15 of 35 by walkman on Thu Oct 18 11:12:35 2018:

#9 I'd that the 1GB drive I ended up with circa 1997? It was monstrous
and ran alarmingly hot. 


#16 of 35 by tod on Sat Oct 20 18:37:03 2018:

re #15
Yes, that drive was worth alot of money to a few eastern euro countries'
agencies, LOL


#17 of 35 by mijk on Thu Nov 22 08:03:02 2018:

resp:9  I never saw these pictures or read of the pumpkin before.
Awesome! A very good bit of the Grex story, right there, in one page:
with pictures.



#18 of 35 by lar on Sun Mar 8 20:32:12 2020:

The pic of the pumpkin brings back some memories.My brother introduced me to
grex back in the 90s. I remember that article being put up on the grex website
an couple of years later. My brother passed last december so it brings back
some good memories.


#19 of 35 by tod on Mon Mar 9 21:24:00 2020:

re #18
Sorry for your loss.  Who was your brother?


#20 of 35 by walkman on Tue Mar 10 14:16:30 2020:

#18 Sorry for your loss lar. :(

Good to see you back posting here BTW.


#21 of 35 by lar on Tue Mar 10 22:46:38 2020:

My brother was on here as user "tinman" from 96 to 99. He didn't post much
but was in party quite a bit. I had my first account here in 96. I got it just
after I configured my first PPP connection at 14k. Win96 was out but I was
still running win 3.1 on my PC. That OS didn't come with a tcp/ip stack so
I had to download one called "trumpet"(I think) from my ISP and install it.
MAN...I thought I was "leet" because all my friends had was AOL or Compuserv.
I eventually got to the point where I could configure a PPP connection on
AOL's backend and bybass their sodtware garbage. Everyone thought I was so
cool...and I was until I ran into the *nix bunch on m-net and grex. To them
I was a total lamer.....windows user...strickly from commerical (Frank Zappa)
LOL!.


#22 of 35 by tod on Wed Mar 11 13:30:31 2020:

re #21
Seems like yesterday


#23 of 35 by walkman on Wed Mar 11 14:44:33 2020:

OS/2 had it's own TCP/IP configuration built in rather than relying on 
a 3rd party like windows 3.11.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZ1AjaNjack


#24 of 35 by tod on Thu Mar 12 20:31:56 2020:

I disdain the day that DOS 6.22 introduced the MS TCP/IP stack driver.
LAN Workplace and Wollongong 3rd party stack drivers were benign.


#25 of 35 by walkman on Thu Mar 12 22:31:28 2020:

I love talking about this stuff. Check out Adam Curry (from early MTV)
talking about his journey from building his own modem for his zx80
sinclair to using Mosiac for the first time (I remember doing that from
a floppy disk LOL) and so on. His story is interesting because he had
connections and knew people. But he talks about Gopher and Archie etc.
Fun stuff.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFKOhvUva2Y


#26 of 35 by tod on Fri Mar 13 04:42:48 2020:

re #25
If I could go back to the days of Archie and Veronica pulling down
binaries with Z modem perhaps I wouldn't be surrounded by 
"innovators" and "disruptors" whose claim to fame might be their last
potluck.


#27 of 35 by walkman on Fri Mar 13 15:50:13 2020:

Venture to a new world:
https://www.webcrawler.com/

Do the Jughead:
http://archie.icm.edu.pl/archie_eng.html

I haven't met anyone in real life that thinks of GeoCities fondly 
but my first domain name was attached to one in 1997.
#biginjapan

Useless knowledge: 
PHP almost destroys the ability to search the web with a Commodore 
64 using Contiki and a NIC+ Ethernet adapter. It worked for a very 
long time though. It is still very possible to visit a very active 
BBS scene using a Commodore WiModem or NIC+ and terminal software 
that is still being updated today like CCGMS Elite. Long live telnet 
on 8-bit. There are even some nice 80-column C128 terminals. 


#28 of 35 by papa on Sat Mar 14 00:11:28 2020:

*I* think of GeoCities with at least a little fondness. I even neglect
a page hosted on its clone, NeoCities: https://papa.neocities.org/


#29 of 35 by lar on Sat Mar 14 21:23:50 2020:

re# 25 and 26
The WWW was out when I first got on the internet but all of the old 
stuff was still popular. I used archie and veronica for gopher,chatted 
using IRC, posted on usenet ( and got all my porn from there) used ftp 
clients to download programs. I used netscape and even ran an old legacy
 version of Mosiac. of course we all telnetted(ssh)into m-net or grex.
To this day I still talk about this to the technicians I train "wellll 
sonny, when I first used the internet..." 


#30 of 35 by tod on Sun Mar 15 04:01:14 2020:

re #27
Archie takes patience.  I almost forgot what patience is.
Thank you for putting me back on the Internet hayride


#31 of 35 by glitch on Wed Apr 29 00:51:21 2020:

Heh, didn't expect to see so much activity on this one :) Since posting this,
I have acquired a Sun SPARCserver 670MP, a friend of mine in California picked
it up and shipped it for me. Quite the beast! The Sun-provided casters of
course detonated instantly :D

At the Vintage Computer Festival Midwest, in Chicago, I got talking with a
guy about Sun and AT&T 3B2 stuff, and it turned out he wanted 3B2 Ethernet
boards, which I happened to have, and had a very complete Sun 3/160 to trade.
So now I've got a 68K Sun box. Ended up with the huge grayscale ECL monitor
for it, too, from another conferece-goer.

Picked up a bunch of Sun4 suff from a print shop (like, typemetal and book
making) in Jackson, MI last summer. I actually still support Sun4 for
$day_job, so some of it went toward that effort. The SPARCserver 670MP has
a dead power supply (bad caps) so for now I think I'm going to use one of the
Sun 4/330 boxes with the 670MP CPU board (which is very nearly a
single-board-computer).

I like keeping this old stuff alive, it's fun to hack on stuff from a simpler
time. Tonight, I'm SSHed in from an Altos III dumb terminal (Wyse WY-30 with
different ROMs) hung off my main Linux workstation :)


#32 of 35 by kentn on Sun May 3 13:52:42 2020:

That's cool.  A lot of vintage stuff needs re-capping and similar parts
replacement done to get back to working.  40 year old power supplies &
motherboards sitting in a closet or warehouse or back-corner of a server
room, etc. I'm glad you are keeping these these servers working.  Good
luck.


#33 of 35 by glitch on Tue May 5 03:45:10 2020:

re 32: Yeah a lot of stuff needs caps nowadays, if you get old enough into
linear supplies you can sometimes reform them, but most switchers seem to
either be fine or the caps are totally gone (usually leaking). There's a fair
bit of this stuff still doing useful work in industry -- in January I did a
SCSI SSD conversion on a SPARCstation 5 that runs a stepper, which is the
machine that patterns silicon wafers for making computer chips. The customer
had looked at several replacements from various manufacturers and decided they
really didn't like any of them and didn't want to rework their process around
a new machine -- plus they cost several million dollars. Hard disks had been
the only real reliability issue with the machine, can't fault 90s SCA drives
for giving up after living in the kinda poorly vented environment of a SPARC
pizzabox :)


#34 of 35 by glitch on Thu Feb 24 14:54:12 2022:

Not actually Grex's, but a SPARCstation 370 (Sun 4/370):

https://imgur.com/a/vqF9786

A friend traded it to me as I still haven't gotten around to recapping the
670MP's power supply. After getting the 4/370 up and going, I swapped in the
4/670MP CPU board. It shows definite signs of life but is failing some
self-tests. Hopefully nothing major!


#35 of 35 by tod on Thu Feb 24 23:48:15 2022:

re #34
Beautiful! The original R2D2 with some o dat RISC architecture


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