Grex Garage Conference

Item 23: Telnetd removal from OpenBSD >= 3.8 and grex.

Entered by cross on Mon Dec 19 14:13:52 2005:

25 new of 57 responses total.

#33 of 57 by denise on Tue Jan 23 23:24:57 2007:

Maybe a bit late in the discussion, I do hope telnet stays for awhile for us
non-techies on board. Though I've heard of ssh here, I have absolutely no idea
what that [or putty] is.  So an easy, non-techie based option for being on
grex would be cool.  :-)

#34 of 57 by nharmon on Wed Jan 24 01:12:35 2007:

Denise, I would say that using PuTTY is actually less "techie" than
using Windows telnet to access Grex.

Download a copy of PuTTY and give it a try.

#35 of 57 by cross on Wed Jan 24 16:03:55 2007:

I agree with nharmon; PuTTY is actually easier to use than Windows telnet.
Grab a copy from here: http://www.putty.nl/latest/x86/putty-0.58-installer.
exe
and give it a whirl....

#36 of 57 by denise on Wed Jan 24 22:54:54 2007:

What IS putty? Or does it explain what it is on the web site?  I guess its
just something that I haven't ever been exposed to [but am willing to try and
learn].

#37 of 57 by cross on Wed Jan 24 23:57:47 2007:

In a nutshell, PuTTY is a "terminal program" that allows you to connect to
remote systems (like grex) over the Internet.  It provides a superset of the
functionality of Windows telnet, which you might currently be using to connect
to grex.

#38 of 57 by denise on Thu Jan 25 03:33:20 2007:

Ok, thanks. I'll definitely check it out sometime in the next day or two when
I have a bit more time.  :-)

#39 of 57 by remmers on Thu Jan 25 17:30:23 2007:

In circumstances where I've been forced to use Windows, I used PuTTY a
lot for connecting to systems with a terminal interface.  Definitely
recommended.

One downside was non-standard copy-paste behavior (borrowed from X
Windows, if I recall correctly) that could have unfortunate consequences
if you weren't aware of it.  I don't recall the exact details - it's
been a few years - and maybe it's been fixed.

#40 of 57 by nharmon on Thu Jan 25 17:42:42 2007:

Anything you highlight in PuTTY is copied onto the clipboard and right
clicking will paste everything in the clipboard.

#41 of 57 by remmers on Thu Jan 25 17:56:14 2007:

Oh, right.  Still not fixed, eh?  

Accidental copies followed by accidental pastes into a command line
interface can have unfortunate consequences.  Regardless what you think
of Windows, applications for it *should* follow standard user interface
behavior.

#42 of 57 by nharmon on Thu Jan 25 18:40:24 2007:

Fixed implies it is broken, John. I kinda like that behavior. :-)

#43 of 57 by cross on Thu Jan 25 19:21:29 2007:

Yeah, that's one thing about PuTTY that I do NOT like.

#44 of 57 by twenex on Thu Jan 25 20:14:08 2007:

I love it.

What I hate about PuTTY is that it's only necessary on Windows!

#45 of 57 by remmers on Thu Jan 25 23:29:10 2007:

I don't mind the behavior either, but then I'm an X Window veteran,
where it's standard.  But if you're going to make a product that's
friendly to the poor folks who are stuck on Windows, you shouldn't have
unpleasant little traps waiting for them.  I guess a user preference for
X Window behavior or standard Windows behavior, with the latter being
the default, would be ok.

#46 of 57 by cross on Thu Jan 25 23:47:10 2007:

I agree with remmers here.

#47 of 57 by nharmon on Fri Jan 26 01:03:58 2007:

It appears that my version of PuTTY allows you to turn this feature off.

Window --> Selection --> (Options controlling copy and paste)

#48 of 57 by gull on Sat Jan 27 22:12:23 2007:

I kind of prefer the Windows behavior, and I configure my X systems to follow
it.

#49 of 57 by gull on Sat Jan 27 22:13:10 2007:

It also occurrs to me that maybe it should be referred to as "Mac behavior,"
since it originated there and Windows copied it. ;)

#50 of 57 by cross on Sun Jan 28 00:02:14 2007:

I think the Principle of Least Surprise would dictate that PuTTY would use
the Windows behavior by default under Windows.  When in Rome, and all that....

#51 of 57 by twenex on Sun Jan 28 08:59:34 2007:

OTOH, maybe the developers figure that the majority of people who use PuTTY
will be familiar with X11 anyway, and thus TPOLS dictates that X11 behaviour
by default is necessary?

#52 of 57 by cross on Sun Jan 28 09:16:28 2007:

That's entirely possible, too.  I wonder what the rationale is....

#53 of 57 by remmers on Mon Jan 29 12:56:07 2007:

Re #51: That assumption may have been valid when PuTTY was new, but I'm 
doubtful that it's still valid.

#54 of 57 by maus on Mon Jan 29 14:29:47 2007:

resp:53 For those of us who have been using PuTTY for years, the X11 
way of doing it is ingrained in our brains, If they changed it to a 
Windows behaviour, it would break the kinesthetic processes for long-
time users. I think that it might benefit from a large-print warning on 
the webpage and a smaller-print explanantion of how to make it more 
Windowsish (Windowsy? Windowsesque?).

#55 of 57 by remmers on Mon Jan 29 15:48:24 2007:

Oh, I have no objection to the X-like behavior remaining but don't think 
it should be the default.

#56 of 57 by cross on Mon Jan 29 15:58:10 2007:

I tend to agree with Remmers on this.  As long as the Windows behavior is
available, however, I don't particularly care about the default.

#57 of 57 by twenex on Mon Jan 29 18:15:03 2007:

Re: #53. Why's that? Most Windows users I know would consider typing commands
into a text window, at best neolithic, and at worst bonkers.

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