53 new of 87 responses total.
P.S. We are in the process of selling, buying, and moving. I feel your pain. ;-)
what kind of heat is there for the winter? natural gas? fuel oil? what if it was converted to gas after it had been an oil furnace? what i am trying to ask, what if the fuel tank is still buried in the yard? has the tank itself broken down with a slow leak? would you be responsible for the removal of the tank and contaminated soil?
How old is it? COnsider what the construction codes and practices were
when it was built, it's a pretty good indication of dependability and future
problems. And for god's sake, evaluate the roof. Does it need new shingles?
(Look for curling of the shingles, and moss on the roof.) while you're at it,
check the ceilings in each and every room for signs of water damage. THere
are some paints that will cover the water stains, chekc closely for
indications of their use. (Usually the ceiling color will vary a shade or two,
check it in very good lighting.
Another thing to check is the sill, which is the major board betweeen
the house and the foundation. look for dry rot and water damage. it's fairly
wise to take along a penknife to check for sound wood. Do that to the window
frames and sills as well.
AND by all means, take along a legal pad and inpen, and write down ALL
the potential problems, and price out, or at least ballpark, the cost of
fixing up those problems. You DON'T want to tackle all those costs by
yourself, and affording reapairs AFTER you've budgeted to the bone for the
downpayment, closing costs, monthly payments, and taxes, is extremely
depressing and stress you don't need.
In spite of that, I wish you all the luck in the world.
Man, there sure are a lot of things I havent thought of. This house was built in 1901, it has gas heat but probably did used to have oil heat considering it's age. This house is cheap enough that I can buy it and still have $10,000 or so in cash left that I can use on repairs. However, I know that $10,000 might not be enough if it is in really bad shape. Oh well, hopefully next week I will have better luck getting in touch with the realtor about actually seeing the house. Also, there is another house on Summit st where the asking price is 109,000 but I dont think it is worth that. I am planning on seeing that house as well if it is still on the market after september (and if I am still looking then). I'll offer something like 90,000 <shrug> which is actually more in line with what it is worth compared to other houses in the neighborhood.
lynne, is you are talking about the house that's accross the street from brad and I, brad says not to pay any more than 9ok for it.
Adrienne and I went and looked at one house in the "student district" of Ypsi. Oh my god. It was the scariest house I've ever seen. Many of the floors were "crooked", and there was this huge octopus-like beast of a furnance in the basement. It was freaky.
The house I grew up in had an Octopus furnace, originally designed to burn coal but later retrofitted with a gas unit, until I was 12 years old. then my parents got teh house remodeled, and got it replaced with a couple of modern furnaces.
Don't forget a pest inspection. A stake survey is wise, as well. And remember to budget a couple grand for closing costs and the like.
Damn girl, I think you should just get a pop-up camper and forget all this crap. *snort* Besides, think how easy it will be to stalk people if you can just take your home along....
aren't most of the houses on summit student ghetto apartments? just one thought about traffic. both summit and river are high traffic streets. might not be a factor for you tho.
I thought about the camper thing but they arent good investments. It would make my stalking habit easier though. Yes, both River and Summit are high traffic streets. I would prefer to live on a street with less traffic but since both of these houses have fenced back yards, I can do the high traffic street thing with my dogs. I dont care about traffic noise but I would worry about my doggers and I will probably have to discontinue my habit of taking the dogs on a short morning walk off leash.
some of them may be a little student ghetto, but there are worse parts of Ypsi. A lot of the buildings have been remodeled or are in the process of being remodeled. It's a fairly nice looking neighborhood for a student ghetto.
slynne, I forgot to mention, one Pat Ballard is an honest realtor. Think Mary Remmers has a passing aquaintance with her. (Kicks self for not remembering it earlier)
Pat Ballard is no longer a realtor. But if you want to travel to Everest's base camp she could help you out. She has been the manager at Journey's for about 6 years now. Still, that was a nice comment, Brian, and I'll pass it on.
Bring a marble to drop on the kitchen floor, to see how fast
it rolls away from you.
I had a compass for myself when I went house hunting. I wanted
a house that was west facing or towards south facing to have shade in
the back of the house in the afternoon. This house faces west. Here
at 10am, thought, I got a backyard that is almost all shade due to the
high trees at the back and sides of the yard. Only direct sun on the
back of the house.
(Or just bring a level instead of using a marble. Easier.)
Yeah. I think I can get a level. Not a bad idea.
A marble is smaller though... Those 'octopus' furnaces are a gravity furnace. They look strange, but they are designed that way.
Just a question. What does it mean if the floor is warped. Does it just mean that the floor is warped a little (which I could live with) or is a warped floor the sign of a more serious problem?
Do you want that phone number? ;-)
Since when were you bothered by things that were warped? ;)
re 53 - a good home inspector can tell you if it's a serious problem or not.
resp:55 - I think the fact that I am still friends with *you* proves that I have a high tolerance for warped things.
warped floors could be a sign that the floor boards have seperated from the joists. not a good thing.
Warped floors are a problem because: 1. They look bad 2. It's very hard to tile them unless the warping is fixed 3. The warping is usually pretty difficult to fix, since you have to hear into the floor and remove cabinets arnd such. It might also mean a lot of water got into there at some point, which might mean rot. In general you won't find a perfect house, even new. But what you do want is one with a minimum of problems to fix. THings like water leakage tend to point to maintenance problems on the part of a previous owner, which could mean that there are other serious problems hidden.
I bought my house completely on impulse, and have been quite happy with it.
I believe you said the house you were looking at was build in 1901.
Even back then. cindreblocks were used on occasion. which leads to a question.
Is the foundation cinderblocks, or cobble (Stones of medium size) and cement?
If It's cobble and cement check the outside foundation, and inside basement
walls for the quality of the cement. If it is loose or crumbling, run, do not
walk, away from that house. redigging And pouring a basement is NOT cheap,
and except in rare case, not worth it.
While you're looking at the foundation from the outside, be sure to
checl the outside walls to see if they lean or are out of true. That little
problem is almost impossible to fix easily, and extremely expensive to repair.
Matter of fact, in that case the best thing to do is tear the house down. In
which case, you're paying an Exorbitant price for nothing more than a lot in
Ypsilanti.
Yeah, the foundation worries me because the house is so old.
When we were on the market for a house, we found that generally to have a chance at getting a good house you had to be there the first day it went on the market, and make a decision about whether you wanted to buy it in a matter of hours. This is a hard way to make such a big purpose. We found that as first-time house-buyers we felt the need of a professional in our corner, so we hired a buyer's agent. We liked ours a lot (Doris Preston, Re-Max) but you should talk to several. Get someone you are confortable with, who seems on the same wavelength as you, who has been in the business a long time, etc.
Oh, much as I hate the whole concept of "Dummys" books, "Home buying for dummies is pretty good."
Others may have mentioned this, and I just missed it, but another thing that's important is the condition of the electrical system. Earlier vintages of electrical systems were not all that safe to begin with, and have only gotten worse as they deteriorated. They certainly wer not designed to handle the load that we put on them today. Most houses that old don't even have outlets with three-prong sockets, which means you'll be doing some rewiring just to plug in your computer and operate it safely.
The way to do it, really, is to go house hunting prepared to make an offer. Do all your homework (know the school system, what other properties are going for, etc), get preapproved for a mortgage, and (having met with your attorney) have a standard offer contract ready. Said contract should have all the appropriate contigencies, the most important being a house inspection satisfactory *solely to your approval*, which means you can back out if there's dirt in the corner. Doing all that enables you to make an offer ASAP while giving you a lot of room to back out.
Oh, and by "standard contract" I *don't* mean the ones the real estate agents have sitting around the office; those are generally skewed toward the benefit of the sellers.
This item now linked to "Dwellings" as 34.
I like #66 - especially the part about NOT using the real estate agent's forms. I've considered writing my own, if/when I decide to buy another house.
I don't know that writing your own would be a good idea. Perhaps getting a lawyer to draft papers with terms that are beneficial to you would be in order, but then would have to pay the lawyer.
That would be much safer than doing it yourself.
To be fair, most older houses were built much more substantially than most mdern houses - so a crumbling basement is not quite the disaster it would be under a modern house. It's still not a good thing. It also used to be typical to put in a "michigan basement", which was basically a basement with a dirt floor. If you want to put in a modern laundry facility, this might not be to your liking. Most people have paved over this by now - the cement may not necessarily be very thick, and the ceiling might be quite low. Until the 60's, it was not common to put in waterproof basements - this means it will be damp in the summer, & may have small leaks in wet weather. This is fine for laundry & furnace, but not at all good for storing clothing & paper, or finishing off as a den. If you are looking at a newer house, pay attention to the flood plain. People have gotten used to sump pumps and waterproof basements, and a lot of building is being done on flood plains today. The results are *not* pretty when the pump breaks that pumps your sewage, and that of your neighbors, uphill to the rest of the sewage system. It's only marginally better if the storm drains back up, and you get 2 feet of water in your driveway. The Huron river has a bunch of dams on it - do you want to be downstream when one of those dams gets a crack and lets lose?
So how are you supposed to know if a house is in a flood plain? My Dad does have something to say about old houses. When I told him I was looking at a house that was almost 100 years old he said: "well that house got to be a 100 years old for a reason"
When you go to get a mortgage on the house, the bank will figure out if the property is in a floodplain. If there is any danger of flooding, you will be required to get flood insurance. This can be very expensive (depending on the particular level of danger your prospective house is in), so it's an excellent idea to put in a contingency that says you have the option of backing out if you're required to get flood insurance. As for contracts, any lawyer who does much real estate work will already have his own version of a contract (that is, he won't have to charge a bundle to write one from scratch).
Whether you're in a flood plain is very much an issue of geography and topology. If you go outside and look around at the surrounding lay of the land, you may be able to get an idea. If the land you're on is very flat, and you are mostly surrounded by hills that go up, and no valleys that go down, you should be suspicious. You should be even more suspicious if you see a river or stream or marsh nearby. Another possibilty is a buried stream - for instance, in Ann Arbor, if you go to william near 1st, you'll find right at the railroad track there are 4 storm grates below which you can hear gurgling. That's allen creek, which got roofed over at some point (the 30's?). It's also a flood plain, and in a sufficiently bad thunderstorm, you can see the water back up out into the street. This is bad, but it's not the worst design you can find. The worst design is when you depend on an electric pump to pump things uphill, either sewage or storm water or both. This is sometimes found in newer subdivisions. By the same token, it's best to find a house that doesn't *have* or *need* a sump pump. In michigan, the local drain county drain commissioner's office might be a good source of information about storm sewers, any pumps, the lie of the land, and where the local flood plains are. The local water authority presumably should know if they have any pumps pumping sewage uphill anywhere in their service area. Another useful reference may be a toplogical map of the area in question - you can get such maps for the local area of michigan (and perhaps all of michigan) from Borders. As a general rule, if you can walk either downhill, or uphill along a ridge in all directions from your proposed property, you are probably not on a flood plain. The kind of soil also makes a difference. Clay soil is much worse than sandy soil or gravel, because the water can run along the top instead of sinking down in and away. Landscaping around the house, & gutters can also make a difference.
<DRIFT> Tonight's AANews had a front-page photo of a stalled truck that had tried (?) to drive throught high water under the railroad trestle on Huron. I thought *immediately* of Allen Creek. </DRIFT>
There was high water under the railroad trestle on Huron? Have there been any water problems at the Pumpkin? For that matter, is this the mythical hundred year flood that the building codes for that neighborhood believe in?
Well, grex seems to have survived the high water incident, so I guess it didn't flood the building.
Apparently we've now had 2 seprate "100 year" rainfall amounts, but I think a 100 year flood takes a lot more water than that (like a like a sudden melt of a lot of snow).
FWIW, the 100 year flood doesn't have a chance of occuring once every hundred years. It has a 1 in 100 chance of occuring EVERY year.
wish i'd have stumbled opon this item earlier been spending the last nearly 6 months trying to get a house here in chicago 106 years old, structurally sound but superficially a WRECK.. hey it's a 2-flat and it's cheap about 97 hours till we close...IF we close..
Just consider, October, Friday the 13th, complete with Full Moon.
Robert, I'd love to hear more about your house and your efforts to rehab it. Would you consider entering an item chronicling your project? I've always been in awe of folks who take on older historic homes which have been neglected. They rank right up there with folks who adopt handicapped kids.
A friend of ours bought an expensive new house in a flat area with black locust trees (they grow along rivers) and a sump pump and a basement that is only a foot above ground level (to make the house look more modern) and as soon as the power failed for a few days they were down there constantly bringing up buckets of water to dump outside. Jim rigged up a siphon system until the power went back on. In most cases you can avoid wet basements by keeping the gutters cleaned out and berming the earth so it is slightly higher near the house. Some of the early cinder blocks fell apart (our neighbor has one where he is patching the blocks all the time from about 1910). Sloping floors don't mean the rest of the house will have problems, just that you may have to shave the bottoms of doors so they open, and shim the corners of appliances so they are level. The joists used were too long or too narrow to hold up the weight put onto them, and sagged in the middle. Two-hole outlets can be replaced with three-hole outlets which are cheap (you could probably even learn to do it yourself) but the knob-and-tube wiring (from the 20s in a friend's house)is more of a problem (it generates low frequency radiation said to be bad for you). Look in the basement on the ceiling for the wiring. Galvanized plumbing was still used in the forties and it rusts out and needs replacing (expensive). Older houses (twenties and thirties and even forties) have plaster instead of drywall, which blocks much more sound. They also have no insulation at all, which costs to add (or costs to pay for the lack of in wasted fuel). Ask about wall insulation and look in the attic for ceiling insulation. See how hard it is to open the windows, if you plan to open them. Nineteenth century windows were often held up with pins not sash cords. Leaky (rattly) windows waste heat.
If basements are built with "green" cinder blocks, the walls will crack at the mortar joins as the blocks finish curing; shrinking as they do so. Replacing a two prong outlet with a three prong outlet is not always that easy if you do it properly. That third prong needs to be connected to ground. Houses that were built before the mid 60's may not have a ground wire going to the electrical box and that means running a wire for that purpose. Often a difficult task. (Some people say to just connect the white wire to the ground terminal as well as to the terminal it was originally connected to. This can pose a significant safety issue. DON'T DO IT! So far as post and tube wiring, the hazards of low frequency radiation are not universally accepted. Much research has been done and no harmful effects have been verified at the levels you might encounter in a home. At least that I am aware of. This sort of radiation is also present in homes wired with romex, just a lower levels because the wires are closer together.
If you need to install a ground, just make sure that the ground wire in the outlet is connected through the entire path of the hot wiring back to the main fusebox, and then run a wire from the shell of the fusebox, and clamp it securely to a bare, clean surface on one of the incoming water pipes. One way of tying the ground in from the outlet back to the fusebox is by using any conduit as a conductor. If there is no conduit, as suggested above, then a heavy gauge wire should be run connecting each outlet's ground back to the main fuse panel and then connecting to a water pipe as above.
Hopefully the fusebox is already grounded. You shouldn't have to worry about grounding the fuse box! Once in the fuse box, the copper ground wire gets attached to the same point as all the while wires. (The white wire is simply a current carrying ground wire. Ground wires are not allowed to carry current under normal conditions. If they do, something is wrong!)
You have several choices: