Grex Cyberpunk Conference

Item 147: The Fifth Napster Item

Entered by krj on Tue Mar 27 23:46:12 2001:

77 new of 143 responses total.


#67 of 143 by krj on Thu Apr 26 21:06:36 2001:

Moving sideways, here's an interview with the CEO of Real Networks
about the subscription music plans (Napster replacements) Real is 
working on with the major labels.
 
  http://www.latimes.com/business/20010426/t000035201.html

Note the broad hint that users of such services will be expected to keep 
paying their monthly subscription fees if they want to keep playing the songs 
they have downloaded.
 
I still expect consumers to reject anything which comes with noticable 
"Digital Rights Management" packaging.


#68 of 143 by mcnally on Thu Apr 26 22:40:52 2001:

  Until/unless they come up with a "rights management" scheme which looks
  nothing like the ones introduced up until now, I agree with Ken.  

  Everything proposed so far has been nightmarishly bad from a user-experience
  standpoint -- inconvenient, confusing, anti-privacy, unreliable, etc..
  None of the current schemes have even a remote chance of succeeding in a
  marketplace where there is any competition at all from unencrypted media
  and, as much as they might want to at this point, the record companies
  can't uninvent the CD, nor can they easily stop selling them.


#69 of 143 by russ on Fri Apr 27 00:40:51 2001:

Re #62:  The censorship thing came up on Slashdot yesterday or the
day before.

Anyone want a copy of the paper?  It's on cryptome.org. ;-)

(When is the RIAA going to learn that you can't obtain security
through obscurity?  And how many toes are they going to shoot off
before they do?)


#70 of 143 by gull on Fri Apr 27 01:17:36 2001:

Re #66: Hasn't the Supreme Court ruled that computer programs are not 
"speech"?

I think people will probably reject any "rights management" system that 
makes them pay repeatedly for the same piece of content, or that 
prevents them from using a piece of content on multiple players without 
paying for each one.  People like being able to buy a CD and play it at 
home, in the car, and at work, for example.  It's the sneaky ones that 
will succeed, like that plan to selectively damage CDs to make them 
unusable in CD-ROM drives.  This has a precident in Macrovision, which 
is a violation of the NTSC specification and caused problems for some 
VCRs when it was introduced.


#71 of 143 by jp2 on Fri Apr 27 02:03:25 2001:

This response has been erased.



#72 of 143 by krj on Fri Apr 27 03:10:29 2001:

USA Today has a big piece today trumpeting the commercial arrival 
of WMA, Windows Media Audio, with players pictured from Rio and Intel.
"When you 'rip,' or copy, a song from a CD into the WMA format...
copyright-protecting "digital rights management" tools are automatically
inserted into the music file."  Microsoft and the big music business 
hope to get you to swallow this with claims that file size is cut by 
50%, and sound quality is improved, compared to MP3 files.

The USA Today writer encountered issues with downloading the DRM files 
into  the portable players.

Sorry I don't have a URL, I'm reading from the dead tree edition.


#73 of 143 by krj on Fri Apr 27 17:21:51 2001:

Sorry this is sort of turning into a weblog, for those who are bored by 
such things....

http://www.latimes.com/business/20010426/t000035197.html

"Napster Filters Cost It 20% Of Its Users In March."

One select quote:  "Despite the drop ((in usage)), 18% of U.S. Internet 
users visited Napster's web site or used its music-sharing system in March."


#74 of 143 by goose on Fri Apr 27 17:39:19 2001:

Well they wimped out...


#75 of 143 by goose on Fri Apr 27 17:40:06 2001:

er....

<< A group of computer scientists at Princeton and Rice universities has
 decided to withdraw an academic paper that was to be presented at a 
 conference this week, because the Recording Industry Association of
 America said that public presentation of the work would violate the
 Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998, because it would describe how
 to evade the systems used to protect copyrighted music. Princeton
 computer scientist Edward W. Felton explained the group's decision by
 saying: "Litigation is costly, time-consuming, and uncertain, regardless
 of the merits of the other side's case. We remain committed to free
 speech and to the value of scientific debate to our country and the
 world." John McHugh of Software Engineering Institute at Carnegie Mellon
 University commented: "This was an excellent technical paper. This was
 pure and simple intimidation. This paper didn't do anything that a
 bright technical person couldn't easily reproduce." (New York Times 27
 Apr 2001) http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/27/technology/27MUSI.html >>


#76 of 143 by brighn on Fri Apr 27 17:48:04 2001:

You're right! How dare they... all they had to risk was their careers, and
years of litigation with one of the most powerful cartels in the world, and
you had so much to gain... the right to "borrow" music with greater ease.

SOME people are so selfish. They should be ashamed of themselves.


#77 of 143 by goose on Fri Apr 27 18:33:53 2001:

Some of us see this as much more than "the right to 'borrow' music"

To think that's all it is to me is quite presumptious. :-P

Note: I make my living in the recording industry.


#78 of 143 by brighn on Fri Apr 27 18:40:20 2001:

I'm quite presumptious, and have never denied that. ;}

My point was, to call somebody a 'wimp' for not wanting to put their entire
life on the line is also presumptious. Some people just don't have the mettle
to be that kind of hero.


#79 of 143 by gull on Fri Apr 27 23:32:01 2001:

Yup.  Unfortunately, because they aren't willing to do that, we may all lose
another little chunk of our first amendment rights.  In the same situation,
I think my decision would be the same, though.  No individual has the kind
of deep pockets you need to fight the RIAA.


#80 of 143 by krj on Sat Apr 28 04:42:44 2001:

News story in many sources: I have it here from the Associated Press
via http://www.sfgate.com :

Trial court judge Marilyn Patel "essentially threw up her hands and 
appealed for help" regarding the Napster preliminary injunction.
She said she cannot do anything to make Napster's filtering 
process more effective, and she invited the RIAA to return to the 
appeals court panel to "seek clarification," which probably means
to get a ruling with more teeth in it.


#81 of 143 by dbratman on Sat Apr 28 21:13:21 2001:

How often has it happened in the U.S. that a scientist has withdrawn 
research results, previously expected to be published, under threat of 
legal action?  Regardless of the fate of copyrighted music, THIS is a 
very sad event for freedom of speech.

Sure, those research results could be used for nefarious purposes.  If 
that's the concern, then I expect the follow-up to include a clean 
sweep of all murder mysteries from the bookshelves of the land.


#82 of 143 by tpryan on Sun Apr 29 02:35:52 2001:

        If paying consumers are going to be paying additional x for
the copy protection, but it is thawrted almost as easily, I would
rather the voice come forward to show the system to be not worth
it.


#83 of 143 by gull on Sun Apr 29 17:53:04 2001:

Hmm.  Good point.  If this scheme is easily circumvented, isn't it 
better for the RIAA to find this out *now* than after they've put a lot 
of money into distributing stuff on it?


#84 of 143 by other on Mon Apr 30 00:50:51 2001:

I've been wondering why they haven't caught on to that.  I mean really.  
Haven't they figured out by now (since DeCSS) that they cannot stop the 
release of information just because they have the law on their side?


#85 of 143 by gelinas on Mon Apr 30 03:37:19 2001:

Uh, we're talking about people whose lifeblood is controlling the release
of information, right?


#86 of 143 by drew on Mon Apr 30 14:14:45 2001:

My response is, get another lifeblood. The rest of us have to from time to
time.


#87 of 143 by gelinas on Mon Apr 30 17:45:21 2001:

Oh, no disagreement there.  My response was to the question, "Why haven't
they caught on?"  That's been their livelihood from time immemorial (for
them ;)  It's always worked before.  *We* know it's doomed to failure, and
they may even, but they aren't quite ready to start hunting new prey.


#88 of 143 by krj on Wed May 2 19:32:57 2001:

The RIAA declares victory over Napster:

http://www.wired.com/news/mp3/0,1285,43487,00.html

Some quotes:
     "In April, Napster use fell by nearly 36 percent from the previous
      month...   The average number of songs available by individual
      users dropped from its all-time high in March of 220 to a paltry
      37 by the end of April.  That led to nearly 1 billion fewer
      downloads." 

Hilary Rosen of the RIAA talks up the coming MusicNet and Duet systems
from the major labels, but she says that music purchased through these 
systems will cost about the same as CDs, because of marketing costs.

(*wheee!*)


#89 of 143 by gull on Wed May 2 19:35:38 2001:

If it's going to cost the same, I sure as heck want the physical disk.  Why
should I pay the same amount for the privilage of supplying my own media?


#90 of 143 by dbratman on Wed May 2 21:14:48 2001:

If a Napster usage drop of 36% is an RIAA victory, then CD sales - 
which dropped a barely accurately measurable 5% or so, and only in some 
localities - were never in danger from Napster.

resp:89 - really good point, and one reason I've never bothered to use 
any of these services, even at less than equal cost.  It's also why I 
bought a CD player for my car: I was tired of making tapes.


#91 of 143 by lasar on Wed May 2 22:28:14 2001:

To make this a real victory, we would have to hear news of 36% better CD sales
in the near future, right?


#92 of 143 by dbratman on Thu May 3 00:43:09 2001:

No, only 5%.


#93 of 143 by mwg on Thu May 3 01:58:26 2001:

I see this whole thing as a form of suicide on the part of the
entertainment industries.  Looking about at the world, it seems to me that
the popularity of any given entertainment item (and thus the monetary
potential thereof) is related fairly directly to how easy it is to copy
said item.

To be blunt, I am of the opinion that the huge profits in the
entertainment business are basically feeding of the backwash of piracy,
and actually coming up with a working copy protection system would do more
damage to profits than if there were actually any validity to their
phantom loss figures.

I am now of the habit of not buying into new entertainment technologies
until the controls are effectively broken.  The fact that I'm off
broadcast TV for other reasons (logos) means I won't be aggravated in the
least by the delay between deployment and breaking of the copyguards.

You did know that the FCC has mandated copyguards be built into all new
digital TV equipment, right?



#94 of 143 by gull on Thu May 3 02:30:39 2001:

Yup.  Videotaping your favorite shows may be a thing of the past, soon.


#95 of 143 by krj on Thu May 3 22:19:32 2001:

The move to restrict consumer copying capability rolls on.  Here's a CNET 
story about chip manufacturers looking at building anti-recording 
functionality in home stereos.

http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-5813283.html?tag=tp_pr

Quote:  "Also built into chips now rolling off of Cirrus' and other
manufacturers' assembly lines are controversial copy protections, or 
'digital rights management' technologies.  As these chips become more 
widely used, consumers could find for the first time their own home 
stereos blocking them from making tapes or other copies....   Analysts
say that it's still far from a sure thing that products that limit 
people's use of their own music will be accepted, even if copy-protection
support becomes a basic feature of stereo systems."


#96 of 143 by russ on Tue May 8 03:40:44 2001:

The film studios are working very hard to avoid what happened
to the record companies.  They want to make it IMPOSSIBLE for
the consumer (that's you) to get ahold of the raw digital bit
stream of video (movies, TV programs, just about anything) so
that you can put it in your computer and do what you want with
it.  The only things they want to have access to video data are
gadgets that will keep the raw data away from you; if you want
to do something that they've decided is verboten, like taking
a 5-second clip of last night's show and mailing it to your
mom, tough luck.

In other words, every piece of digital video equipment will be part
of a conspiracy to let you have access to YOUR data only on the most
grudging of terms, and some things will be totally forbidden.  You
may have to kiss time-shifting and archiving goodbye.

They've got a proposal for doing this, encrypting everything that
goes across a wire.  It was leaked to cryptome.org; read it there:

http://cryptome.org/hdcp-v1.htm

It's really dry stuff, but it ought to scare you.


#97 of 143 by scg on Tue May 8 05:50:19 2001:

How does this relate to fair use law?  Is fair use something you only have
a right to if you have the means to make a copy, such that the means to make
a copy can be regulated separately?


#98 of 143 by other on Tue May 8 17:58:40 2001:

Fair use doctrine is a very complex system of exceptions to copyright 
protection.  It does not guarantee the right of access to materials, but 
rather protects appropriate free speech rights in context of references 
to other copyrighted materials.

Fair use is an attempt to balance the extremes of first amendment and 
copyright laws.  The whole concept of legal protection of technical 
schemes which prevent access to original materials is not addressed in 
fair use.  Such laws throw off the balance in favor of copyright but not 
by compromising fair use, just by going around it.


#99 of 143 by other on Tue May 8 18:00:23 2001:

One of the best sites I found in some extensive research on fair use is:

        http://fairuse.stanford.edu/


#100 of 143 by krj on Tue May 8 18:14:08 2001:

The simple answer to scg's question in resp:97 is that the courts 
are rejecting "fair use" as a principal to invalidate the DMCA's 
prohibitions on breaking encryption.  If the copyright holder encrypts
it, they are allowed to do anything they want to control access and 
the law will back them up.  It also appears that the "First Sale
Doctrine," which allows a second-hand market in books/cds/videos/whatever,
is likely to get tossed out in the new era.


#101 of 143 by russ on Wed May 9 04:35:34 2001:

Re #97:  To elaborate on Ken's explanation, the push appears to be to
make fair use impossible to exercise by outlawing every tool you might
use to achieve it.  Fair use may entitle you to quote from a work, to
make archival copies of a work you own (so long as you do not sell any
of them apart from the work itself), to view it as you see fit (e.g.
magnifying the text and projecting it on the wall to make it easier for
a person with limited vision to read it) and to make any other use of it
that does not infringe on the owner's ability to profit from the right
to make and sell copies.... if you can do it without breaking the law.

The media companies are most definitely trying to make fair use
impossible to achieve in practice, via technical means which prohibit
you from e.g. quoting a work, making an archive copy, altering how the
work is displayed (like skipping the ads they put in your DVD)...  The
problem with the DMCA is that it backs up the media companies in their
attempt to eliminate fair use, and the beknighted courts have been all
too willing to throw out the long-established principle of fair use to
uphold the DMCA.

I'm starting to agree with the WTO protestors, that corporations have
achieved far too much power over the laws which are meant to be to the
benefit of people in general.  They're all take and no give.  The
current terms and conditions of copy"right" aren't right, they are
blatant theft from the public domain.


#102 of 143 by dbratman on Wed May 9 21:45:58 2001:

I'm trying to think of pre-digital attempts to restrict fair use.  One 
that I can come up with from my college days in the '70s: the firm that 
sold course notes at U.C. Berkeley distributed them dittoed in faint 
green ink.  This was (supposedly) impossible to photocopy.


#103 of 143 by scg on Wed May 9 22:49:10 2001:

I remember supposedly non-reproducable blue ink in software manuals from the
1980s.  The approach seemed to be that you might be able to copy the disks,
but you had to buy the software to get the manual.


#104 of 143 by gull on Wed May 9 23:03:09 2001:

The RIAA tried to ban cassette recorders, as a way to restrict fair use.


#105 of 143 by i on Thu May 10 00:27:14 2001:

Weren't 'most all attempts to prevent copying by technical means in the
field of PC software defeated by the 100%-legal, low-tech strategy of
people not buying the copy-protected software?

It the problem that consumers are way too addicted to the music, video,
etc. that the mega-media companies are pushing to ever use that strategy?


#106 of 143 by russ on Thu May 10 01:30:06 2001:

Re #102:  Except that the kind of use frustrated by un-copyable ink
is typically wholesale copying, which is not fair use.  If you want
to look back to attempts to restrict fair use, you should think of the
attempts of publishers to prevent the re-sale of used books; this
led to the first sale doctrine, which is (not coincidentally) under
attack in the new media as well.

Richard Stallman has some words that ought to horrify you:

   And this changing context changes the way copyright law works.  You
   see, copyright law no longer acts as an industrial regulation; it is
   now a Draconian restriction on a general public.  It used to be a 
   restriction on publishers for the sake of authors.  Now, for practical
   purposes, it's a restriction on a public for the sake of publishers.
   Copyright used to be fairly painless and uncontroversial.  It didn't
   restrict the general public.  Now that's not true.  If you have a
   computer, the publishers consider restricting you to be their highest 
   priority.

http://media-in-transition.mit.edu/forums/copyright/index_transcript.html


#107 of 143 by scg on Thu May 10 02:08:32 2001:

To be fair, it is most likely wholesale copying they are trying to prevent,
while the rest is "colateral damage."

DIVX certianly appears to have been killed by market pressure.  Software copy
protection seems more likely to have gotten killed by the growing size of
software, and the evolution of PC technology such that people started running
programs off hard drives, rather than off the software publisher supplied
removable media.  If you couldn't copy software off an installation disk, or
if you had to keep track of the installation disk so you could occasionally
insert it in the disk drive (what disk drive?) to show that you still had it,
the software would become pretty useless to modern computer users.

I think the big problem with the music industry's current copyright fight is
that it's now much easier to get an illegal copy of some music than a legal
one.  If there's some piece of music I decide I want to listen to right now,
I can either walk to a record store a half hour walk away, sit in a traffic
jam for half an hour to get to a music store with nearby parking, or sit on
a train for half an hour to get to one of the downtown San Francisco music
stores.  On the other hand, I can go online and find an illegal copy within
a couple of minutes.  If I want to listen to something a lot, I buy the CD.
If I want to listen to something once, it's really not worth it.  If there
were a legal way to download the music, and maybe even pay for it, I'd gladly
do so.  I'd probably do so considerably more often than I buy CDs.

I get the impression the music industry is finally realizing they need to do
something to make money from on-line music downloads.  What they don't seem
to realize is that people might actually obey they copyright law on their own,
if it were easy to do so.


#108 of 143 by dbratman on Fri May 11 22:41:55 2001:

resp: 106, Russ Cage: The green ink, if it prevented photocopying at 
all, prevented the making of one photocopy just as efficiently as a 
hundred.  Indeed, it was single photocopying, rather than mass copying, 
that the notes firm said it was concerned to prevent: if you wanted 
their notes, you had to buy their copies, individual by individual.  
That was what they said.  A hypothetical person trying to go into 
business by unethically mass-reproducing the notes was not their 
concern.  He would have a heck of a time recouping expenses, epsecially 
given the notes' time value.

The rhetoric may be different, but the digital anti-copying devices 
would prevent you from making a copy for your own use just as 
efficiently as preventing you from putting it on Napster.


#109 of 143 by russ on Sat May 12 02:35:21 2001:

Re #33:  You mistake the issue, sir.

De minimis copying of a course pack printed in uncopyable ink is easy.
You can copy lines, paragraphs and even a small number of pages by keying
them by hand or even writing them longhand.  This is the kind of thing
you would do for fair use.  Dropping the entire course pack into a
hopper-feeder and pressing "copy" is not;  it would be infringement if
you transferred the copy to another person.  (It would not infringe if
you kept both copies, of course.)

The problem with the DMCA and the like is that even de minimis copying,
such as quotes of a few seconds from a film for the purpose of criticism
or analysis, require tools which are presumptively illegal under the
current interpretation of the law.  I can only hope that the appeals
court will find that the trial court erred in its interpretation, or
declares those sections of the DMCA unconstitutional.


#110 of 143 by scott on Sat May 12 12:20:11 2001:

Hmm.... Now I'm starting to put my creative hat on with this.  What would be
the "copy a few lines longhand" version of taking a film clip?  How about
re-enacting the scene?  I could imagine this taking on a life and a style of
its own pretty quickly.  :)


#111 of 143 by remmers on Mon May 14 02:46:30 2001:

(Reminds me of a movie I saw once where a guy did on on-stage
reenactment of the crop-dusting scene from "North by Northwest".


#112 of 143 by dbratman on Wed May 16 20:42:39 2001:

resp: 109 - typing or handwriting out something is not easy to do.  
That's why fair use cases of this kind (as opposed to plagiarism, etc.) 
essentially didn't exist before the photocopier.  By creating 
uncopyable print, the college notes service made a practical stop to 
copying of this kind.

Hand-copying isn't as difficult as the equivalent work-around for 
uncopyable sound recordings, which is to play the recording while 
keeping a microphone up near the speaker.  That may sound funny, but I 
audio-recorded a fair number of tv shows that way before the days of 
the commercial VCR.  I wonder if you could use a camcorder that way too.

Of course the quality would be seriously degraded.  But not as badly as 
it was in the days I actually did that; and if you think the quality of 
hand-copied text doesn't degrade, you'd be mistaken.


#113 of 143 by krj on Thu May 17 15:47:33 2001:

More weblog stuff...

From many sources: a news report that Napster, Inc, is seeking beta 
testers for the for-pay secure Napster service which is supposed to 
debut in July.
 
from http://www.zdnet.com :  "No Free Ride for MP3Pro," the upgrade to the 
MP3 format.  The holders of the MP3 patents want more money for the use
of the new format, but it has to compete with Windows Media Audio which
some say is gaining market share even though it includes copy-prevention
stuff.
 
http://www.latimes.com/business/20010516/t000041036.html
reports that "the majority of TV makers" are prepared to include the 
new anti-copying stuff in their digital TVs.  "Some manufacturers,
including Sony Corp. and Mitsubishi Group, have already begun production
of the new sets, which are expected to arrive on store shelves later
this year.
   "The technology, known as IEEE 1394, I.Link or FireWire, is a data 
networking standard with tough security features...   The technology
gives program producers, rather than consumers, the power to decide what
can and cannot be copied digitally..."


#114 of 143 by krj on Thu May 17 22:32:13 2001:

Oh dear oh dear oh dear...
 
http://www.mp3newswire.net/stories/2001/expire.html
 
picks up on a NYTimes report where the new MusicNet pay download
service was demonstrated for Congress in the last couple of days.
The MP3newswire.net story focuses on the plan to make users pay, and
pay, and pay...   "When a user downloads a song, it remains available
for 30 days at which point the user can decide to renew the license
for 30 more days, as long as the monthly fee is paid again...
... a typical $10 monthly subscription might include the ability 
to download or listen to 75 songs."
 
I smell market rejection, but maybe I'm just too optimistic.  :)


#115 of 143 by mwg on Fri May 18 03:45:15 2001:

This all gets irritating.  How long before using terms from TV shows is
declared copyright infringment and payments asessed?

Drift of a sort.  All this DMCA stupidity has my brain making odd
conncetions.  It occurs to me that if the DMCA is not removed fairly soon,
then Microsoft has already won thier battle to illegalize open-source
software.  If the interface to the device is encrypted, it becomes illegal
to reverse-engineer it for writing non-vendor drivers even if you are
using the interoperability exception that has been used now and then.

Drifting back, the copyguards on new technology present the content
producers with an interesting dilemma.  If they turn on the copyguards too
soon, they risk wholesale rejection of the technologies.  Do they have the
patience to leave the guards turned off for the number of years that
saturation of a new technology takes?  Most consumers are not aware of any
of the nonsense under discussion in this item.  It literally falls outside
thier world for now.  Most people won't know that a device has
use-management built in until it bites them, by which time they've likely
no chance of returning the device.

If the public can find out about the copyguards ahead of time, the
question then becomes who can last longer in somethine like digital TV,
the manufacturers, who can coast for a while on accumulated money, or
consumers, who can use old technology for old recordings but cannot access
new programming when analog broadcasts become illegal?

There is no possibility of this actually happening, but I'd like to see a
truth-in-labeling applied to devices with use-management systems.  On the
OUTSIDE of the box.  Right now, the only warning most people get about
region control on DVDs is buried in the back of the instruction book,
after they have opened the box and hooked up the player.  Imagine how well
a digital recorder would sell if the box had to say "This device contains
rights-management technology that may prevent you from recording a
program, copying it after recording, or playing it back more than once."
Neutronium balloons, anyone?


#116 of 143 by gelinas on Fri May 18 03:50:47 2001:

Hmmm.... Didn't the courts find that shrink-wrap licenses were illegal?  How
is this different?


#117 of 143 by krj on Fri May 18 19:49:33 2001:

Wired.com has a couple of entertaining pieces today.
 
http://www.wired.com/news/mp3/0,1285,43894,00.html

is essentially a boring press release from InterTrust about their new
copy-prevention stuff which is already in use by some customers.  But the 
killer is the last paragraph, quoting an InterTrust executive vice
president:

  ((The record companies)) "...also have to move away from the CD and into a
  protected medium with a disk with encrypted music on it.
  Right now, it's like putting out master recordings that can
  be immediately copied and traded on the Internet." 

Exactly how the record companies would survive a drastic phaseout of 
the CD is not explained.  :)

http://www.wired.com/news/mp3/0,1285,43898,00.html

Essentially, the record companies are telling Congress that if there 
is going to be music on the Internet, then the record companies have 
to be able to run over the rights of songwriting copyright holders.
The record companies have now taken the place of Napster in arguing
for a mechanical rights formula, a solution they opposed when Napster
wanted it.


#118 of 143 by gull on Mon May 21 15:00:52 2001:

Re #116: I think there's a new law in the works that makes them legally
binding.  Maybe it's already passed.  You'd better start reading them more
carefully in case they say something like "you agree to give all your
worldly belongings to Yoyodyne Software, Inc. in the event the company
suffers financial difficulties." ;>


#119 of 143 by krj on Mon May 21 16:17:24 2001:

News item: mp3.com has been bought by Vivendi Universal.  mp3.com had been 
the largest source of legitimate music files from independent artists,
and Vivendi Universal is the world's largest music company.
 
News item: On the grounds of trademark infringement, Aimster has 
lost its URL aimster.com to AOL.


#120 of 143 by krj on Mon May 21 17:28:58 2001:

(To crib from another analyst's piece, the mp3.com acquisition means 
that the biggest Internet music operations are now in the hands of 
the major labels.  Can anyone think of any sizable independents that
are left?)


#121 of 143 by dbratman on Mon May 21 20:04:03 2001:

Perhaps it is slightly odd that if something called "Vivendi Universal" 
is the world's largest music company, I have never heard of it before.

Or perhaps not.


#122 of 143 by krj on Mon May 21 20:14:01 2001:

((You just haven't been following the mergers.  Seagrams, the Canadian
liquor company, bought MCA -- was that the mid-1990s?
At the time most of the music operations were under the MCA name.
Seagrams then bought the music operations of the Dutch firm Philips,
which were called Polygram.  MCA and Polygram were rolled together
to create the Universal Music Group.  Then in the last year the 
French media conglomerate Vivendi bought Seagrams to create
Vivendi Universal.))


#123 of 143 by krj on Mon May 21 20:21:02 2001:

((David, Vivendi Universal might be of particular interest to you because
they control the biggest chunk of major-label classical catalog.
London/Decca, Angel, Deutsche Gramophon, Philips are just a few of 
the brand labels & catalogs which Vivendi Universal has ended up with.))


#124 of 143 by mcnally on Mon May 21 22:38:20 2001:

 re #118:  You're probably talking about UCITA, which has been adopted
 in several states and is being heavily lobbied in the rest.



#125 of 143 by krj on Tue May 22 23:01:12 2001:

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/22/technology/22MUSI.html

analysis:  "Vivendi Deal for MP3.com Highlights Trend"

"The upshot, industry analysts say, is that the
five major record companies could wind up
actually consolidating their power in an
Internet age that some analysts thought would
shake the labels to their core."     

We mentioned this before; the major music companies now seem to be 
on the verge of tightening their stranglehold on the distribution
of music.

----------

http://www.latimes.com/business/20010521/t000042593.html

"Net Music Services in Royal Bind"

Best summary I've seen of the controversy between the music publishers
and the online music business.

In today's world, music publishers get a "performance" royalty when a song is 
broadcast on the radio, or else they get a "reproduction" royalty when a 
physical disc or tape is sold.  On the net, these neat categories get blurred,
and according to this article the music publishers feel they should get 
both performance and reproduction royalties for music downloads.




#126 of 143 by krj on Wed May 23 14:54:08 2001:

Another story about how the big labels now own most of the online 
music cards:

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/may2001/nf20010522_934.htm

quote:  "As the dust settles on the online-music landscape, there appears 
         to be little left that the big labels haven't bought -- or broken. 
         Napster traffic is plummeting as the court-mandated filtering 
         systems have made it significantly harder to find
         music that consumers want. Among the top-10 music sites only two 
         don't belong to the big labels, according to traffic measurements 
         by online-research firm Jupiter Media Metrix." 

And according to the article, only one of those two is a true independent,
launch.com; the other unnamed site is owned by a unnamed large corporation.
 


#127 of 143 by krj on Wed May 23 15:17:08 2001:

Here's a very interesting review of what looks to be a very interesting
book:  DIGITAL COPYRIGHT, by Jessica Litman.

http://slashdot.org/books/01/03/28/0121209.shtml



#128 of 143 by krj on Sat May 26 19:29:51 2001:

News item from everywhere: the RIAA has sued Aimster, the encrypted 
file exchange system built on top of AOL Instant Message.  Aimster has
also lost a contest for their domain name; AOL claims "aimster" is a 
trademark infringement.


#129 of 143 by scg on Sat May 26 21:33:08 2001:

From what I've read, Aimster has nothing to do with AOL Instant Messenger,
but rather is named after its creator's daughter.  That people (including me,
before I read an article about it a week or two ago) are confused by the name
and think it has something do with AIM is pretty much the legal test for
trademark infringement, if I understand trademark law correctly.


#130 of 143 by mdw on Sun May 27 00:04:53 2001:

Wasn't AIM a single-board computer kit related to the KIM?


#131 of 143 by danr on Sun May 27 01:41:42 2001:

Yes. I used to actually used to have an AIM-65. I even had the BASIC 
interpreter in ROM.


#132 of 143 by krj on Tue Jun 5 21:43:43 2001:

Two items today from http://www.sfgate.com , the website of the 
San Francisco Chronicle:
 
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2001/06/05/financial1
539EDT0235.DTL
 
(sorry about the wrapped URL) is an AP story reporting that Napster is 
close to concluding licensing deals with the major labels in the 
MusicNet coalition, which are AOL Time Warner, Bertelsmann & EMI.
There are caveats that the labels are still not satisfied with Napster's
protections against copyright infringements.
 
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2001/06/05/BU111061.DTL
 
"Battle over digital music moves to recordable CD drives."

EMI has acquired a partial stake in Roxio.  Roxio, the maker of the 
software program Easy CD Creator, was recently spun off from Adaptec.

     "EMI Music, one of the big five record labels, plans to announce
     a deal with Roxio Inc. of Milpitas today to develop technology designed
     to control the burning ((of CDs by consumers)).  Roxio makes CD-burning
     software that is shipped with about 70 percent of the estimated 100
     million recordable CD units in the marketplace.

     "How that technology will work or exactly what it 
     will do is unclear, although executives at the two companies 
     said one example might be to program CD burners to prohibit 
     copying of a song unless the user pays a fee."

An executive of Roxio says the interest is not in controlling what is 
done today with CDs, but what will be done in the future with downloaded
music files.

Analysts suggest that consumers will not put up with restrictions on 
what they can do with their CD burners, or with downloaded files they have
paid for.


#133 of 143 by mcnally on Tue Jun 5 23:37:52 2001:

  How lucky that we have analysts to tell us that..  :-p


#134 of 143 by krj on Wed Jun 6 21:39:30 2001:

Here's a more detailed article about the EMI/Roxio proposal to put 
controls into CD burning software:

http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/news/depth/roxio060501.htm

Emi's idea is that the consumer would buy a license to burn the downloaded
music file; they think one in four CD sales could be done this way in 
five years.  They say they view this as a new channel for sales.
 
And here are two articles on the shape of the new for-pay Napster service:
http://www.inside.com/jcs/Story?article_id=32416&pod_id=13
http://www.wired.com/news/mp3/0,1285,44322,00.html

The inside.com article, by Charles C. Mann, is better, but unless Salon
picks it up, the link will be broken in a day or three.

Napster is going to charge for one level of access for downloading 
music from independent labels, and for another level of access to get to 
music from their three major-label partners in the RealNet alliance.
 
The publishers are still a huge stumbling block in Napster's path towards
a July re-launch as a centralized downloading service; the technical 
challenges are also seen as formidable, since no one has ever attempted 
to stream as much music as Napster is expected to dish out from a few 
central servers.
 
The description of how the two-tier Napster will work -- with two 
separate pieces of user software, initially -- sound like another flop
in the making.


#135 of 143 by krj on Thu Jun 14 23:42:47 2001:

A Cnet story about how ISP's are being pressured into helping copyright
holders hunt down their customers:

http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-6221068.html?tag=st.mu.1652424.ncnet.1
005-200-6221068

ISPs argue that the DMCA covers having the ISP remove infringing material
from the ISP's machines, but it does not cover terminating customers 
who are infringing copyrights from their own machines.

The ISPs are worried that they will be found liable for their customers'
copyright infringements by courts in Europe; ISPs are generally 
protected from such liability by US law.



#136 of 143 by other on Sun Jun 17 06:38:28 2001:

That's like prosecuting telcos for their customers' harassing phone calls.


#137 of 143 by krj on Sun Jun 17 06:55:43 2001:

Telcos have clear protection in the law due to their status as 
"common carriers," who are obligated to carry the traffic of all 
comers.  ISPs have not generally been recognized as "common carriers"
since by Internet custom there are some activities of their users which
they are expected to police, such as vandalism of other systems and 
sending lots of spam e-mail.  ISPs had considerable & realistic liability
worries until the DMCA granted them protection in the early 1990s.
However, the protections of the DMCA cover American courts only, and 
many jurisdictions are now interested in extending extraterritoriality
in Internet cases.  My understanding of the trend in Europe is that 
European courts have been much more willing to bring ISPs into cases;
at a minimum there are the two cases where Germany prosecuted CompuServe
for transmitting pornography, and where France has pursued action 
against Yahoo over American-based sales of Nazi memorabilia.
 
So if I ran a Napster clone on my PC and offered up copies of material 
of European origin, or offered them so they could be downloaded in 
Europe, the European rights holder would want to take action against
my American ISP in European courts.

(I'm tired and babbling...)


#138 of 143 by other on Sun Jun 17 07:56:51 2001:

What jurisdiction would an EU court have over an American ISP?

Even the French Nazi/Yahoo Auction thing is being reviewed because of
jurisdictional concerns.


#139 of 143 by krj on Sun Jun 17 16:57:41 2001:

Another summary article on recent developments with the big record 
companies seizing control:
 
http://www.economist.com/business/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=656204

Note that the Universal/Sony "Duet" vaporware online service has 
now been renamed "pressplay."
 
Quote on how the legitimate download systems may still produce a 
substantial revenue squeeze for the labels:
 
  "Even at $20-$30 a month, for unlimited downloads, the record
   companies could expect a steep drop in revenues per track:
   consumers in America now pay over $1 per track on a CD album, 
   which will often contain songs they would never choose to pay for."


#140 of 143 by krj on Sun Jun 17 17:12:50 2001:

As someone mentioned in party recently, Audiogalaxy is where it's at.
Here's a Cnet article summarizing recent developments in the music file 
trading scene for those of us who are technological Luddites:
 
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-6282002.html?tag=tp_pr

The quick summary: Napster may be fading away but new services are 
seeing explosive growth.


#141 of 143 by scg on Sun Jun 17 17:16:18 2001:

Yes, making it easy to download tracks probably causes people to download more
of them.  That's a deceptive measurement, though, since it's the initial
production, not each downloaded copy, that costs the record companies
significant amounts of money.  It seems to me that the real question in terms
of whether the record companies would gain or lose revenue from a $30 per
month unlimited subscription service is whether the typical customer of that
service would otherwise be spending $30 per month on CDs.


#142 of 143 by krj on Fri Jun 22 20:07:41 2001:

Eric in resp:138, on international jurisdiction over American ISPs:
 
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5093109,00.html?chkpt=zdnn_tp_


This ZDnet story is about The Hague Convention on Jurisdiction and 
Foreign Judgements, a proposed treaty.
 
"'In a nutshell, it will strangle the Internet with a suffocating 
  blanket of overlapping jurisdictional claims, expose every Web
  page publisher to liabilities for libel, defamation and other 
  speech offenses from virtually any country, (and) effectively strip
  Internet service providers of protections from litigation over the
  content they carry," Jamie Love, director of Ralph Nader's 
  Consumer Project on Technology (CPT), wrote in a report after the 
  meeting."
 ...
"The Hague treaty differs...   it is much broader, requiring participants
 to agree to enforce each others' laws on a variety of topics.
 As it stands, the treaty would require courts to enforce the commercial
 laws of the convention's 52 member nations, even if they prohibit actions
 that are legal under local laws."

"Delegates did not soften speech laws to provide for countries that value
 the exchange of information.  In addition, they strengthened some 
 intellectual property provisions--over the objections of consumer groups.
 
"'The bottom line is that it didn't go well,' said Barry Steinhardt, 
 associate director of the American Civil Liberties Union... He said that 
 although American delegates listened to free-speech worries, most others
 did not.

"CPT's Love agreed.  "We got our ass kicked," he said. 'It was a bad two 
 weeks for us.'
 
"Free-speech advocates fear US citizens could lose many of their rights if 
 all web sites have to ensure they are following the narrowest laws, such
 as those of, say, China or Morocco."



#143 of 143 by tpryan on Fri Jun 22 21:59:55 2001:

        I have a suspicion there are a lot of communists in China.


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