In the last year, with the introduction of the ISDN line, Grex's monthly
expenses have risen significantly. We are still covering our expenses nicely,
but we are finding ourselves a bit tight for upgrade money. The following
three projects are planned:
- Sun 4/670 spare parts. Our new computer, which was largely paid for by
a big fund-raiser about a year ago, seems to be doing great. But this
is the first time that we've been running on a machine that we didn't
have a complete set of spare parts for, and it is making the staff
rather nervous. Good deals on second-hand Sun parts are hard to find,
and we wouldn't want to have to shop in a hurry or fall back to the
old machine if the new machine breaks. So we plan to buy a spare CPU
card and motherboard. This will ensure that we can bring Grex back
up quickly if something goes wrong. We expect this to cost about
$600.
- Mail machine disk. Through donations from several people, we have
almost all the parts we need to set up a 486-based system to become
Grex's mail machine. All mail sent to Grex will be delivered to this
machine and then passed on to Grex itself. Processing mail is one of
the heaviest loads on Grex, and this should reduce that significantly.
Grex won't have to deal with retries and failed delivery attempts,
so there will be less processing. Currently mail tends to arrive in
big bursts, which can really slow down Grex. If we have a mail
forwarder, it will deal with the big bursts and continue to feed mail
at a steady rate. Since mail to Grex will arrive over our fast local
ethernet instead of over our relatively slow ISDN line, Grex's mail
processes won't hang around so long. In the future, this machine may
evolve into a more sophisticated mail server that actually saves users
mail there, giving additional improvements. The machine currently lacks
only a disk. We could either buy a 2 Gig EIDA drive, or buy a SCSI
controller and use the 1.2 Gig SCSI disk that djf donated. (We prefer
the former option, which would leave us with djf's disk to use for
Additional space on Grex.) Either way, this would cost about $200.
- 501(c)3 Tax Exempt Status. Grex's bylaws have always required it to
function as a 501(c)3 corporation, but we've never actually done the
paperwork to apply for such status. If we get it, all donations to
Grex would become tax-deductable. We've been working on the paper-
work, and think we are close. There is, however, a $150 application
fee.
So to complete these three projects, we need $600 + $200 +$150 = $950. We
expect to have $2100 in the bank at the end of the month, so if we spent all
this we'd have about $1150 left. Since Grex's operating expenses are about
$600 a month, we feel this would be far too low a cash cushion (we like to
keep three months operating expenses in the bank).
So the board is calling for users to donate money to support these projects.
We'd like to raise $950 in pledges. You can ear-mark your donation for a
specific project, or just add it to the pool for all three.
Thanks for your support.
126 responses total.
I'll donate $75.
I promised grex that I would donate $100 if it got the 501(C)(3) status. I will move that gift up to let it apply to the application fee. So this means $100 from me, earmarked for the 501(C)(3), but then I am off the hook once we get it.
I'll donate the remaining $50 for the application fee.
I'll donate $40.
I pledge $25.
So no one else should worry about looking like a cheapskate for a small donation, here's $1.00.
I'll donate $10
I'll donate $40. I was meaning to send something along anyway, to celebrate the 4/670 installation.
If someone will add a reminder to whatever reminder gets sent to people when their membership is about to expire (mine will be late April or early May, I think), I will add an extra $50. WOuld it be appropriate, assuming such reminders get sent out, to ask for donations with them?
Yes, I do send reminders out when memberships are about to expire. I suppose I could add a line about the pledge drive to the normal reminder. (Your membership is paid through 5/15, Cynthia.)
I pledge 1,000 cents ($10). :>
501(c)3 is dangerous. Please do not go that way. Look what it has done to M-net. Stop before it is to late.
I don't buy that one bit. We are fully in compliant with the requirements to be a 501(C)(3). We should obtain the benefits. Grex is not M-Net. The 501(C)(3) isn't even the same kind as M-Nets. There's just about nothing in the parallel.
What srw says. There are thousands of very happy 501(c)3 organizations, though mostly wishing people would donate more money to them. I cannot think of a single drawback for an organization that is designed to work within that context (non-profit, charitable).
Please, discuss the 501(c)3 elsewhere in the coop conference. We've already raised all the money for that. Let's let this item continue to focus on the fund-raiser for the Mail Machine and the Spare Parts.
Thanks to srw and rcurl, the 501(c)3 application fee of $150 is covered. Other donations so far are: $75 janc $40 aruba $25 tao $1 nestene (sure, anything you can afford is appreciated) $10 bruin $50 keesan $40 krj ----- $251 donations for 670 spares and mail machine $150 donations for 501(c)3 ---- $401 That means we are still $549 short of our total goal of $950. The staff hasn't really worked this out in detail, but my expectation is that the highest priority is the 670 spares. Though the mail machine is cheap and would help a lot, it can wait if it must. We really need to have spare parts. Once we have those, we can also pull the disks off of the old Grex and that gains us about 1.7 Gig addition disk space on Grex. If anyone can donate a decent SCSI controller or a reasonably trustworthy IDE disk of at least a 1 Gig size (or several smaller ones) then we won't need the $200 for the mail machine.
I'll donate $50.
Would it help if those people who are considering donating after a change in tax status lent grex some money now, which could be converted later to a donation? Or simply paid back when there were enough other donations? I would be happy to offer a loan of half the missing amount, or $549/2 = $274.50. Eleven loans of $50 would also cover the amount. If someone wants to set a deadline for collecting the total amount, I will lend up to $274.50 by that date, if nobody else has donated or lent it.
I don't recommend playing games with deductibility of loans/donations. I would judge that the ruse is illegal *unless* Grex paid back the loan and subsequently was presented with a donation. Have to dot those i's and cross those t's for the IRS.
Also, it's supposed to take something like a year and a half for the 501(c)3 process to finish, so you would have to wait a while.
I see no problem in waiting. I won't be itemizing for at least that long (assuming we ever get the house built, the taxes will go up then). Let me know if you need a loan and how much.
I'd prefer not to mess around with loans unless we're really strapped. Being the caretaker of Grex's money, I feel I should say something about why we decided to hold this fundraiser. When we had our "plan the budget" meeting in February, I estimated that we will have about $1300 in gross income which is not already allocated to our "occupancy" costs - rent, phone, electric, and internet connection. We talked about what we wanted to spend it on, and decided the spare parts are most important, followed by the mail machine and some publicity. That small number of improvements was enough to use up our expected surplus. I had to make a number of assumptions in order to come up with that $1300 number. I assumed that we'd hold two auctions this year, and that they'd be as profitable as last year. And I assumed that there wouldn't be any other forced costs this year. That's already been proven wrong since we spent $160 on taxes last month. So having that $1300 is far from certain. Furthermore, the staff would like to get the spare parts ASAP, which means not waiting until the surplus accumulates to buy them. Therefore we decided to hold a fundraiser. We realize the benefits of this one are not as flashy as have been those of past fundraisers, but the things we'll buy are no less important to the running of Grex, so please consider donating something.
(I should have said that $1300 was the estimate for all of 1998.)
I thought I donated $10 back there, but I don't see it. So, I donate $10. If the previous response mysteriously reappears, I still only donate $10. :)
Dan, your previous response has myseriously reappeared as response #7. donations so far are: $100 srw $50 rcurl ---- $150 TOTAL for 501(c)3 $75 janc $40 aruba $25 tao $1 nestene $10 dang $40 krj $50 keesan $10 bruin $50 scott ----- $301 TOTAL for 670 spares and mail machine $451 TOTAL pledged of $950 goal
Count me in for $18
put me down for $20 for the spare parts. i should have thought of it at the board meeting. it would have saved time and effort...
I pledge to send in a year's membership dues ($60), even though I cannot type and have been using Keesan's account (and we share a phone number). If 100 nonpaying members were each to join for 2 month ($12) we would be over the goal. This is really cheap entertainment! (And in my case it is even a business deduction, which reduces my taxes even more than itemizing on Schedule A. It is clearly a business expense if you need it for e-mail, or work with computers and ask computer-related questions, or even if it is your only way to look at websites, and if you are in the 28% bracket, you save 15% FICA plus about 5% state, or about 50% total, if self-employed. So $60 is only costing me $30.) Not only is this tax deductible, I am really getting a lot of answers to questions that help with my work. Is there some way to consider this a business expense for the non-self-employed with a home office?
The check is in the mail. Actually two checks, one from each of us.
Thanks!
Actually, I don't think membership dues can be earmarked for a particular purchase. Your donation is very welcome though even if it isn't part of this targeted fundraiser. I'm in for $10.
I don't care if the money has already been raised. I don't care if the application is different than m-nets. The 501(c)3 is a hinderance rather than an aid. And the city is still gonna make you pay taxes, they don't see it the way the state does. You are digging a hole that soemone is gonna yell until the end of doomsday about. Hell, look at me!
(We don't pay city taxes.) (I think.)
You do not have to pay city taxes unless you own property. So bru, what exactly is this technical problem in Grex being 501(c)3 that is bothering you? If you can give a specific reason or example that leads you to say it is a "hindrance", it does not good just keeping saying it. Name a "hindrance" and we can discuss it. Taxes are not one of them - Grex *saves* taxes with 501(c)3 exemption.
Can you *please* take that discussion to another item? This is the fundraising item. I'm in for $10.
As Mary said, I won't earmark dues for the equipment, but of course dues money will help just as much as any other money, and is greatly appreciated. I second scg's sentiment - bru, please enter an item in coop to discuss your doubts about 501(c)3 status for Grex. We're up to $509, just over halfway there.
M-net is 501(c)3. The M-net equipment is property. The city charges M-net city taxes each year and we pay them. ASk dpc how much they are. I will take it to coop, but I have stated this before in coop and given reasons. Just go to M-net to see what problems it causes.
With regard to taxes, why is 501(c)3 any different than being a non- profit corporation? That is to say, if M-Net legally owes city taxes, chances are good that so does Cyberspace Communications. I don't 501(c)3 status is the determining factor.
(please create the other item for this discussion)
$100 srw $50 rcurl ---- $150 TOTAL for 501(c)3 $20 other ---- $20 TOTAL for 670 spare parts $75 janc $40 aruba $25 tao $1 nestene $10 dang $40 krj $50 keesan $10 bruin $50 scott $18 kaplan $10 mary $10 scg ----- $339 TOTAL for 670 spares and mail machine $509 TOTAL pledged of $950 goal Thanks.
(please goto coop item 13 to discuss the 501(c)3)
Count me in for $25.00.
We dont' pay city taxes. We live in a township.
I'm in for $75 dollars.
keesan wins the prize as the first person to send in her pledge. Thanks Cynthia!
I think the new Sun is playing favorites in giving out extra birthdays - one to Jan who started the pledge item, and one to the first one whose check actually arrived. I think *everyone* who has pledged support for either new parts or the tax stuff should get at least one extra birthday. And anyone over 30 should get at least two extras, and over 40 3 extras.... YOu can get cheaper bus fare and other discounts sooner that way.
Does Sindi get a discount for buing first ?
A discount on what?
On bus fare, assuming that grex is running a bus.
no extra b-days for us under 18s and under 21s?
I don't need no extra birthdays....could I return some?
You will have to arrange that with staff. Perhaps they could issue antibirthdays. (I was concerned that the under 21s might use their extra birthdays to purchase something alcoholic, which could get grex in trouble).
hey! birthdays don't get people alcohol, people get people alcohol!
Well, we are at $609 and holding on the fundraiser. Once again folks, let me point out that while Grex is not about to go broke, our cash reserves are low right now and we are sort of crossing our fingers that nothing will go wrong before we get some spare parts. Compared to last year, our budget and goals for this year are modest, but our costs have risen, which eats into our ability to expand the hardware. We could really use some help to ensure that our financial situation stays healthy. If you don't feel comfortable giving money outright, please consider becoming a member or buying a T-shirt, both of which will help a lot as well, and earn you "the undying gratitude of all who love Grex", as danr used to say. And as nestene made plain, any size donation, even $1 or $.50, is appreciated.
I am still willing to lend the money for the spare parts, which grex can return if and when the donations arrive. Jim asks, if we can raise enough for spare parts for the new Sun, would it be possible to sell the old one? Or even sell pieces of it at say $10/piece, sort of like Mt. St. Helens?
Ha! Jim has the same idea I've had. The Sun-3 parts are truly worthless, unless viewed as a part of history, or some other marketing ploy^ht^h^h^han. *That* might work. ;-)
I can see putting enough Sun-3 parts to make most of a working computer (except for a SCSI disk, and we'd not promise that it will run, and we aren't in a very good position to supply any software) up in the next Grex auction. Currently we have raised $609 of the $950 we need to ensure that we will be able to keep this new machine running.
Please thank bruin and janc for sending in their pledges. Thanks!
I think, since many of the current members contributed to buying the Sun, that those of us who joined since it was purchased should all try to contribute for the spare parts, since we are benefiting from the new Sun. And that non-members, to make sure that they will be able to continue to use grex for free, should try to send in something, maybe based on how much they use grex, say even $5-10. If 35 people each sent $10, we'd have enough. Are there 35 nonmembers who used grex for e-mail? Would it help to ask them in the login screen to contribute just a little bit?
Well put. It might help to have a more specific message, I suppose; perhaps several, which change periodically. I'll go put one in now.
What we need to do is get the word out for our 10,000 email users that we could use the extra money. Not quite sure what the best way to do that is, however.
Can you send them e-mail? Point out that if the Sun does not have spare parts, they could stop getting e-mail? Perhaps not send to India or other countries that would have trouble paying, but start with locals. People who only use e-mail might not even know that we are asking for donations. I only recall seeing it mentioned on the menu are the bbs login.
This suggestion has been made before - but not implemented. Thank you for saying it again, keesan, and thank you Mark for responding positively to the suggestion. Yes, Grex should regularly approach its non-member users for support - small donations or enough for a few months or a year of membership. Now...I expect to hear the anti arguments again...
One of these days, I should organize a membership drive. After all, I am the
membership chairman, (who has been doing an astonishingly poor job of it)
Maybe we'll do something this fall.
How about today? That would be much better.
Yeah, the sooner the better. Our membership rates have been basically constant for the last 3+ years. (I verified this when I did the financial research for the 501(c)3 application.) But our operating expenses have gone up quite a bit in the last year, thanks to the ISDN line, and some increases in our phone rates. As a result we are depending on other sources (i.e. the auction, and this fundraiser) for some of our income. I would sleep a lot better if we had, say, 20 more members. That doesn't really seem like a lot, but for some reason Grex's membership stopped growing over 3 years ago, and I really don't know what to do about it. I was hoping that when we made Jim Membership Chairman, he would come up with some ideas. Some kind of canvassing does seem to be in order, I think.
I have 3 things that I need to get off my calendar before I can think about anything else. That, and dealing with an upcoming city inspection, I'm still a little busy. I think I can devote my full attention come July.
Why don't you come up with the ideas, and others can implement them (if they 'fly'). There is no reason to put this off. I suggest that we right away put a suitable invitation in the motd, and start sending e-mail to non-member users of six-months (or so) standing inviting them to join (with the whys and wherefores...).
Jim will attempt to sign up new members by fixing up cheap computers at Kiwanis and advertising grex (only $6/month for e-mail, reading websites, and a local bbs on this very cheap computer......). One friend of ours has been waiting a few months for her computer, we will start with her. The last person who promised to sign up after we gave him a modem and showed him how to use it, appears not to have signed up. What exactly are the benefits of being a member? I am attempting to find other interesting bbs's that you can telnet to, but the few I checked out so far are accessible from the web too.
Being a member gives you the good feeling of supporting a worthwhile endeavor that provides a community asset. Do you really think that the "attraction" has to be "benefits"? Start with the premise that there are *no* benefits, and then explain why users should support the system or it might go away.
(would it be possible to put a wrapper around the mail programs, much like party has currently, that will show a message to the person running the program? that might be a way to get the message out to our primarily e-mail users without clogging up mail with lots of individual messages.)
Presumably they have to log in to read their mail and if they log in, they'll be shown the motd.. Let's not start inventing dozens of different places to put fundraising messages..
I don't think the motd is a particularly persuasive venue. The idea is to tailor some more (pseudo...) personal approach. If (for example) the message is sent after someone has been using Grex for six months, the message can be built around a "I hope you have enjoyed the past six months on Grex." or somesuch.
Actually, I kinda like the wrapper around the mailers idea:
o it's not mail, it's not spam.
o it can be made (presumeably) to show up only once unless it's
changed,
o it targets an audience that is using our resources -- very often
with little or no idea who we really are.
I also think a challenge sorta like NPR uses is a good idea. Could a
group of members challenge 20 non-members to join within the next two
months and in return...something? We match the donation with a
non-membership donation, we offer a drawing for a free Grex t-shirt
with free shipping to whereever? (I'd pay for that one but would welcome
help.).
As long as the freebie for the drawing is being offered by a member or
members rather than by Grex itself I think it might stir up interest
without violating our no extra perqs for membership policy. (And it
wouldn't cost the system anything.)
As a matter of fact, if there is no objection I'd like to make that
challenge myself:
If 20 or more people sign up as members for at least one year, I will
sponsor a drawing for a free t-shirt and will personally ship it to
wherever. You must join to be eligible to enter the drawing.
Howzat?
After a suitable period of discussion, we could put the offer in the
MOTD and see what happens.
That's great, but this is the fundraiser item. This is a really good discussion, but it doesn't really belong here. There is another item for this discussion in Coop, and we can get it linked to general if people want it to be. Does anyone else care to donate some money toward the spare parts for the Sun and for the mail machine? Please, please, please, please? The mail machine is currently waiting on the money to buy it a disk.
At http://www.virtual.com/tech_support/sunmgrs/sun_pricelist you'll find a
Sun parts price list dating from October 1994. In case you are wondering
what Grex's current 4/670 system would have cost in 1994 prices, here's
what I've got:
1 501-2055 OMB SS600MP CPU FRU $12600.00
1 370-1388 SM100 SPARC MBUS MODULE $12500.00
32 501-1739 4MB,1MBITX9BIT SIMM,SUN4/40 $8800.00
1 370-1416? 5.0GBYTE 8MM TAPE DRIVE $4000.00
1 370-1347? 644MB CD-ROM,HALF HEIGHT $595.00
3 370-1412 2.1GB DISK DRIVE, SEAGATE $8700.00
-------------------------------------------------------------------
$47195.00
This doesn't include the chassis or power supply. But basically the
Sun 4/670 system we are now running would have been something like a
$50,000 system in 1994.
What we are shopping for in spare parts is:
501-2055 OMB SS600MP CPU FRU $12600.00
370-1388 SM100 SPARC MBUS MODULE $12500.00
-------------------------------------------------------------------
$25100.00
We expect to be able to buy these parts for around $600. So, if you give
us $10, then we will use it to buy about $420 worth of computer (at least
in 1994 terms). What a deal!
Wow, that's a deal all right!
How about a mail wrapper not asking people to become members, but asking anyone using grex to give a small one-time donation for spare parts? I almost never read the motd. Does anyone? How much would spare parts cost if we wait one more month? Wow, do computers get old fast! (MY $2000 system in 1985 might fetch $25 today).
(the motd is wiped out for those with a bbs shell. Grex has gotten faster.) =^) (can we pledge 1995 dollars? I couldn't find any 1998 dollars in my wallet.)
I've sent inquiries for current prices of Sun 4/670 parts to five different venders, but have only got one reply back so far. They want $675 for the motherboard and $450 for the SM100 module. A year ago Rob Argy bought the motherboard for less than $600 and the SM100 for $40. Rob is a shopping god, a skill I totally lack. But finding good deals on this stuff is hard. That's way we want to buy them *before* we need them. If we have to buy them in a hurry it could get very expensive. Neither of these parts are amazingly common, so it will take some looking to find good deals on them, and they could actually start getting more expensive, simply because they are rare.
The motherboard may be scarce, but the SM100 module may not be - it's an interchangeable part that "in theory" could run on virtually any sun4m machine, which I think ranges from the sparcstation 10 to the enterprise 2000. There are also a whole range of other kinds of CPU modules that (in theory) *might* run on grex too, but it's not clear how many of them would actually be compatible with our hardware&software. Some of them may be much faster, but may only be supported by solaris 2.
Right. The $450 price for an SM100 module is absurd and makes me think that this particular vender is off the deep end as far as prices go. However, they seem to be the only one who actually comes back when you ask them for a quote.
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It would annoy me (if it applied to me), a little. Most people have scrollback buffers and are skipping past the MOTD because it's a large, motley, mismanaged bunch of items - mostly irrelevant to *them* - which they've seen before, anyway. Of course there are good reasons for some of the things to be in the MOTD, and for them to stay around a while, but it's still an incitement to breeze past it.
I would like to see anything new at the very end of it, and then it is fine if it scrolls by, except the first time someone looks at it (I assume they have no idea how to get back to the beginning, I did not).
re #83: (...or if I could figure out how to do it for myself [I use the
"bbs" shell]. so far, my two workarounds consist of 1] reading
/etc/motd manually, which leaves out the birthdays, and 2]
logging in via BackTalk.)
(I don't know if the MOTD is "erased" by other shells; it doesn't
seem to be for tcsh, dunno about menu.)
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The command
motd | more
in the .profile should do it. You'll see the motd twice, but
the second time it will pause at the end of each screen.
(Normally the motd should be significantly shorter than the
standard screen length of 24 lines, though.)
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I'm happy to say that I got another pledge of $50 through e-mail. That brings the total to $659.
How many $10 pledges would you need to reach the needed total?
We'd need 29 pledges of $10 to reach our goal. Please thank tao for sending in her pledge money. Thanks! If you made a pledge, please send in the money as soon as you get a chance; I know the staff would like to get the spare parts ASAP.
Would it help to put in the motd the fact that 29 pledges of $10 are all we need to reach the goal?
I'd like to hear that the 501(c)3 application is getting close to being done before I send in my pledge. What's the planned schedule for that?
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I should have done this a while ago, but I've been so busy... I'll pledge $40.
Countdown! 13 pledges of $20 (or 6.5 pledges of $40) to go. Jerome, I have not run into you in the conferences. How do you use grex mostly? WOuld it help to post pledges in the motd?
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jerryb sent in a $40 donation and said "Your recent upgrade was excellent!", so I think it's fair to count that money toward the spare parts fund. Thanks Jerry!
Oh, and please thank krj for sending in his pledge. Thanks!
And please thank dang, scott, other, mta, arthurp, scg, and kaplan for handing me pledge money at the board meeting tonight. Several of them increased their pledge amounts, so the total pledged is now $770, of which we have received $454.
keesan: I've run into you a lot :-) I usually hang out in agora, coop, and a few others, but tend to be fairly quiet unless I have something to say. And to make this pseudo-on topic, I'm pleased to report that "the check's in the mail."
Thanks!
hello
I am pledging one year's membership ($60) + $40 for spares. I will send in the money as soon as I get a bank account here.
Great! Thanks Sreeni!
We're up to $810 pledged in the fundraiser.
I pledge an additional $10, in the spirit of keeping things going
Thanks Ken!
Oh, and please thank mary and jerome for sending in their pledges. Thanks!
$100.00
Brief but to the point. Thanks brenner!
Thanks brenner!
Please thank atticus for sending in his pledge.
We are now only $30 short of our goal of $950 pledged. We have received $584.
?
What's your question, Misti? (To take a guess: if I understand Mark, $920 has been pledged (of goal of $950), and $584 not merely pledged but actually received, cash in hand.)
Yup, that's what I meant.
Oh, OKay --that makes sense. The numbers didn't seem to add up but I'd fogotten to factor in the goal.
I'll add another $10 to my previous pledge. I guess that leaves us $20 short of our goal. Thanks lots to brenner!
OK. I'll pledge the last 20 bucks.
Thanks Dan! We have met our goal! Thanks everyone.
Well today I got a money order from gibson, equal to double his pledge amount! Thanks Pat! And out of the blue I got a check from nt, too, for $100 for the spare parts fund. That will really help a lot. Thanks Sri!
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Very Cool!
reading this late ... this is a special project therefore include my donation of $10. probably to be delivered when i can make the next grexborggathering, maybe by snailmail ...whichever. feels good to arrive late and put us 'over the top.'
You have several choices: