Here is the treasurer's report on Cyberspace Communications, Inc.
finances through November 30th, 1997.
Beginning Balance $3,385.04
Credits $348.00 Member contributions
$78.00 Auction proceeds
$188.00 Grex Store proceeds
$9.36 Sales Tax collected
$4.75 Refund from valerie for routers
$272.18 Miscellaneous contributions
------------
$900.29
Debits $60.00 Pumpkin Rent for December
$83.00 Electricity for November
$20.00 Innovative Concepts phone line
$460.00 Phone Bill (estimated)
$736.60 T-Shirt purchase
$8.99 Bank service charge
------------
$1,368.59
Ending Balance $2,916.74
Our current balance breaks down as follows:
$3,325.12 General Fund
$60.00 UPS Fund
$70.86 Silly Hat Fund
($548.60) Store Cash Balance
$9.36 Sales Tax
The Grex Store activity looks like this:
Cash Stock
--------- ---------
Beginning Balances: $0.00 $0.00
($150.00) Screen Charge
($586.60) --> Items Bought --> $586.60
$188.00 <-- Items Payed For <-- ($104.10)
--------- ---------
Ending Balances: ($548.60) $482.50
The store numbers reflect money which has gotten to the treasurer. I know Jan
has some money that he hasn't transferred over to me yet.
We had one new member in November (other). We are currently at 99 members,
85 of whom are paid through at least December 15th. (The others expired
recently and are in a grace period.)
Well, if you accept the negative status of store cash balance, then the
general fund actually increased by about $80 this month. But on balance, of
course, we spent a good deal more than we took in, because we made a big
purchase of T-Shirts.
Thanks to everyone who contributed in November:
andrewb, arabella, aruba, birdlady, bmoran, bruin, carson, clees, janc, krj,
nt, other, raytlee, rcurl, scott, snow, tao, and tsty.
Thanks!
If you or your institution would like to become a member of Grex, all it takes
is $6/month (or $60/year). Send money to:
Cyberspace Communications
P. O. Box 4432
Ann Arbor, MI 48106-4432
If you pay by cash or money order, please include a photocopy of some form
of ID. I can't add you to the rolls without ID. (If you pay by personal
check, we consider that a good enough ID.) Type !support for more info.
59 responses total.
Agora 116 <--> Co-op 59
I'd appreciate some comments on how I reported the store's financial situation.
Very nice, Mark. I think over time it's going to be a drag keeping up
with accurate inventory balances and profit margins for individual items
on a monthly basis unless the storekeeper is a raging type A person into
accounting self-abuse.
I guess I'd suggest simplifying the store's part of the report
to something like this:
Store Sales:
=============
$188.00 Apparel sales
$XX.00 Mug sales
$XX.00 Mousepads sales
Store Expenses (from the general fund)
==============
$586.60 t-shirts/sweatshirts purchased
$150.00 Printing charge
$XX.00 Postal fees
$XX.00 Postal supplies
$XX.00 Sales taxes paid
Store Balance
=============
Total Sales: $188.00
Total Expenses: $736.60
Cumulative Profits: -$548.60
The figures for the total sales (proceeds) and expenses would show
in the larger picture but, with the details shown in this sub-report,
that's all that would be necessary.
The cumulative profits line might appear unnecessary to some folks but it
will be a nice way of keeping the users up to date on how the store is
doing over time. Remember, most months will not show a major expense
from the general fund, just profits, so such a running total would
be helpful. Cumulative could be for all time or yearly.
Shameless plug here for keeping the Store finances separate: If we did
that the only change that would be needed in the bookkeeping would be to
add another line in the Store Expenses section labeled "Money transferred to
General Fund", and this could be either a inventory loan repayment or
profits being shifted into the General Fund for other use.
I'm not sure it takes a raging type A personality to track the current value of the inventory. It just takes a spread sheet.
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THe service charge comes in the middle of the month, so I gather it relates to the October activity. Other than that, I don't know how it's calculated. (I think we went through this once before, but by all means, call MNB and ask them. I'd love to understand it.)
The bank has a whole bunch of little charges. It charges so much for each deposit, so much for each check drawn, and so much for each item deposited, too. So, the service charge will vary based on that type of activity. This is one reason I only made one or two deposits per month. Well, OK, I was probably to lazy to do it more than that, but still it saved us a few cents each month. :)
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Maybe you can drive home the idea that we are a 'not for profit', do not have a whole bunch of check written each month, with usually less than 50 items deposited a month.
Heh.. Then they'll figure that we're too small for them to want our business anyways and start charging $15/mo to "service" us.. Banks are evil when you're a small consumer.
Yeah, I wouldn't count on any sympathy from them. Those numbers don't make much sense to me either. The service charge I reported at the end of October was dated 10/9. The service charge I reported in this item was dated 11/10. There was definitely only one deposit between those two dates, on 10/31. It consisted of 14 items. And yes, I usually only make one deposit per month, on the last business day of the month.
what would be the minimum balance grex would have to maintain to aget free checking from thebank?
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Even if Grex had $5000 it was keeping for a rainy day, it would pay to keep it in a money market account. They yield about 6% or $25/month. The fee is cheaper. Until we can find a cheaper bank we should keep paying the fee.
But what if a major crash happened and Grex needed to pull that money from the account? Isn't there still that "Substantial penalty for early withdrawal"? I'm for hiding it in Jan and Valerie's mattress. At least there it would be safe. ;)
Not in money market accounts, Jim. In fact, many places allow you to write checks against your money market account. You're thinking of certificates of deposit.
Anyway, the point's still valid that there're a lot of better things to do with $5000 than put it in a non-interest-bearing account at the bank to avoid a $9 service fee, as much as the bank might like you to do so..
A money market account would be a very good idea. Can we do that?
I don't know, but I'll ask the next time I'm at the bank.
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Thanks Valerie.
If grex were serious about finding a better place to hold its rainy day fund, I would suggest that we look into Fidelity Investments. They offer a money market account "Fidelity Cash reserves" which has no fees for an organization like Grex. they treat such an organization the same way they do an individual. There is a $2500 minimum to open the account. They do not insist that the balance remain above $2500 at all times though. In fact, they check once a year (in November) amd if the balance is below $2500 then there is a $12 annual maintenance fee. Otherwise it is free. Check writing is free (minimum $100 on checks) Interest paid is currently 5.36% (seven day yield), and varies with Greenspan's mood. Since you would still need an account for small day-to-day stuff, this is not a way to avoid the bank charges, but rather a way to make a few $$ of interest on our "hoard". They seem so much more customer-friendly than banks do.
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Strangely, I found (hidden among some papers) today a schedule of fees for commercial accounts at our bank, effective 1/1/98. (I think it came with the last statement and I ignored it until now.) It looks like the rates are going up, but ours may also become simpler. I suspect our account will have a $9 charge for every month that our balance is below $3000. I called the bank to make sure I understand what was going on, but the person they wanted to transfer me to had gone for the day, so she'll call me back tomorrow. I also called Ameritech to see if I could find out why our December monthly service rate is $50 higher than our October rate. They also said they'd call me back.
I saw a brochure at Great Lakes Bank that offered commerical checking accounts with no fee, but I didn't notice the minimum. MIght be worth asking.
maybe grex should play the stockmarket. Open up a portfolio at Merrill Lynch orsomeplace. That is where the real money is at these days. Grex could buy some shares of Microsoft or AT&T or something.
<sigh>
Well, the bank called me back, but I wasn't home. I'll try Monday. Ameritech apparently didn't call.
If the Great Lakes commercial checking is like their personal checking, then the minimum is $0.00. My guess is that they're hot for market share and hoping to make up some of their losses on such accounts with overdraft fees.
Im willing tobet grex would make as much in interest with someof its money in a stock portfolio account as itwould in a money market. Maybe more.
That's absurd Richard. The money has to go into a safe place. That's why everyone sighs when you post here.
Well, mostly I'm the only one who actually sighs on line. But yes, the scenario that crossed my mind was precisely a treasurer's report saying "the Dow fell 258 points this month, so we couldn't pay for our internet connection". richard, a lot of your posts lately have been such as to make me wonder if someone stole your account & was parodying you.
oh geez..like investing in conservative stocks in big companies that never go down and these days are always going up is such a damn risk. You tell the broker how risky you want to play your money. Guaranteed your money can be invested so it is at least as safe as if it were in a money market or whatever.
Richard, please name us a stock that NEVER goes down. I have a funny feeling that any stock you name went down on one day back in October. And can you guarantee us that there won't be another "correction" in the market in the near future?
I don't think grex has any business having enough spare cash on-hand to make stock investments worthwhile. At least, not unless somebody wants to die and endow grex. In the meantime, I'd rather see user membership fees and other miscellaneous income used for something more immediately productive.
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Yeah, it certainly sounds like we should have a "Business Class" account to me. (I think those fees are effecitve 1/1/98, Valerie, which is why we haven't been paying as much in fees as it sounds like we should. But maybe I don't quite understand. I'll try to get them on the phone tomorrow.)
If low fees are a prime consideration, do check out Great Lakes Bancorp.
Re 35 - the whole "net investable balance" thing is a long and complicated way of saying "the interest you earn on this account may be greater than the amount of fees we charge you, in which case you make money by having an account." I think. >8)
Hmmm. Ok, I'll try to get the whole picture when I call.
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Those rates sound like a ripoff....ever consider switchingbanks? There must be several banks in A2 and you never know, one may have a better overrall deal? Also does Grex have an ATM card? If Grex could make cash ATM withdrawals and pay certain bills in person (how hard would it be to drop down to the phone company and pay the phone bill in person for instance), that would save on the interest rates.
It would save us $.18, Richard. I'd rather just give Grex $.18 than go down to the Ameritech office carrying $515 in cash. I talked with Alma at MNB Business Financial Services today. She's going to run a simulation, but her guess is that we should stay with the kind of account we have now, since only one of our service charges in the last year has been more than $9. (Of course, if our balance is high enough we avoid the $9 charge, so we need to go back and look at all the old statements to be sure. I'll do that.) Great Lakes Bank is certainly worth investigating.
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Actually, it doesn't make sense to pay grex phone company bills in person. So far as I can determine, the phone company *has* no walk-in business office locations today. Once upon a time, they did. 18 years ago, they would actually "sell" student telephone access to UM students in the michigan bell telephone building in downtown washington, but even then, that building did not contain a regular business office. The closest regular business office was in Ypsilanti - about an hour away by bus. Something like 12 years ago, Michigan bell consolidated all of its business offices into something like 5 to cover the whole state. The closest business office to Ann Arbor was in Westland - about an hour away by personal transportation (there is no city bus service between Ann Arbor and westland.) However, around 10 years ago, Michigan Bell closed *all* of its business offices and they don't have any at all today. Also, there is often a fee associated with cash ATM withdrawals. I've never heard of an ATM card for a business account, but if such a service were available, it's entirely possible that the fee would be larger than the sum required for writing a check + the fee for the postage to mail the check. Also, I believe our treasurer has a full-time job, and is not interested in donating $1 worth of his time, to save grex 18 cents.
Well, the "Schedule of Fees for Business Deposit Accounts" does mention ATM fees, so I gather it is possible to have a business ATM card. But Marcus is probably correct that the fee is the same for making an ATM withdrawal as for writing a check. Even more important than that, though, I wouldn't be comfortable doing business in cash, because it doesn't leave enough of a paper trail. The fact that all of our payments are by check means that we have records (and proof) of where each dime donated to Grex goes to. I wouldn't like putting Grex (and myself) in a position where someone might have reason to question our honesty.
Grex might want to consider the U-M Employees Credit Union on East
William, where Arbornet does its banking. There are no service charges
at all. OTOH, we get hardly any interest.
Oh--an "escheatment fee" has to do with money that has been
transferred to the state when someone dies or abandons an account.
The money is said to be "escheated."
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Back when I worked on the staff of ConTraption (local SF convention) the business account was at U of M CU. Perhaps the rules have changed since you first called?
Re #36: "Net investable balance" is the difference between the "required reserve" (ie, what the Fed mandates the bank to keep in its account at the "local" Reserve Bank, as the price of participating in the ntional banking system) and the actual balance in the account. That is, it's the portion of the account that the bank can "invest", ie, lend to businesses and individuals. The "credit earned on" it would appear to be analogous to the interest we might earn if we were a person, especially since the "factor ... is subject to change from time to time", much as an interest rate would be.
Regarding paying phone bills in person, you can pay at any Meier's. They enter it by computer and it is posted to ameritech immediatly. But it still is a bother to go there when you can drop it in the mail for 32 cents.
That's interesting to know, especially given the times I've gone to Meijer's looking for stamps to mail the phone bill with.
it's about .10 cheaper to pay it in person too
One correction to #51 - last time I was there, a large sign at customer service announced "bills paid here may take up to ten days to reach Ameritech" - definitely not "immediate"!
It is immediate, but they don't want to tell you that.
Well, I'm just repeating what the sign says...
You might try asking around for account information at every CU in the area, one of them might have something useful. I did this for a fan club, and found one that would give us an account with very low charges as long as one of the club operators had an account, which was something that was arranged. As for bill paying, I think that there are no options (other than 'automatic withdrawals) that don't cost more in time and such than just mailing the durn' thing, unless the check writer passes by an office as part of a regular pattern. I do this with the Detroit Edison office that I pass about twice a week, and drop the payment in the box. Otherwise, mailing it is the best overall way. (This is frightening considering the state of the USPS, but that's another topic/conference.)
The phone co.is who told me it is immediately recorded. Not that you should believe much they say. Also meier charges either $.15 or $.25 for the service.
Still better than a stamp.
You have several choices: