Grex Coop10 Conference

Item 34: The Conference Request Item

Entered by valerie on Sat Sep 13 13:13:40 1997:

valerie Jan  8 04:49:41 2004 Valerie Mates valerie Jan  8 04:49:41 2004 Val
valerie Jan  8 04:49:41 2004 Valerie Mates valerie Jan  8 04:49:41 2004 Val
valerie Jan  8 04:49:41 2004 Valerie Mates valerie Jan  8 04:49:41 2004 Val
valerie Jan  8 04:49:41 2004 Valerie Mates valerie Jan  8 04:49:41 2004 Val
valerie Jan  8 04:49:41 2004 Valerie Mates valerie Jan  8 04:49:41 2004 Val
valerie Jan  8 04:49:41 2004 Valerie Mates valerie Jan  8 04:49:41 2004 Val
valerie Jan  8 04:49:41 2004 Valerie Mates valerie Jan  8 04:49:41 2004 Val
valerie Jan  8 04:49:41 2004 Valerie Mates valerie Jan  8 04:49:41 2004 Val
valerie Jan  8 04:49:41 2004 Valerie Mates valerie Jan  8 04:49:41 2004 Val
valerie Jan  8 04:49:41 2004 Valerie Mates valerie Jan  8 04:49:41 2004 Val
valerie Jan  8 04:49:41 2004 Valerie Mates v
134 responses total.

#1 of 134 by valerie on Sat Sep 13 13:17:09 1997:

This response has been erased.



#2 of 134 by richard on Sat Sep 13 20:48:35 1997:

Okay here's an idea.  It has occurred to me that Grex does not have a 
television conference.  So I herewith and hereby and heretofore propose:

The TV-Land conference
(named after a particularly cool new cable channel)

Your basic conference for discussing tv shows-- past present and future.
There are a million confs like this on usenet, where you see running 
items on individual shows and .etc (alt.tv.leaveittobeaver)  

I think TV-Land would be a popular conference because who doesnt watch 
tv, its part of all our lives.  And its the sort of conference that 
would be an easy sell to new users.  A lot of new users might come to 
grex if links to grex's "tvland" conf were put in occasional "alt.tv" 
posts and .etc  People rarely obsess about anything these days more than 
their favorite tv shows.

Grex needs a place where one can discuss the truly important 
things...like whether Arnold the Pig on 'Green Acres' was a communist 
sympathizer, or who was the best Darrin on 'Bewitched' 

The TV-Land conference.  I think it has possibilities.  As long as there 
arent too many "Beavis and Butthead" items that is...I hate "Beavis and 
Butthead"



#3 of 134 by aruba on Sat Sep 13 21:29:59 1997:

Sounds like a good idea to me.


#4 of 134 by bruin on Sat Sep 13 22:25:57 1997:

And bruin makes three.


#5 of 134 by gracel on Sun Sep 14 19:58:35 1997:

*I* don't watch TV; this sounds like a good conference to skip! <g>


#6 of 134 by richard on Mon Sep 15 00:45:43 1997:

gee gracel, and I thought you'd be a good co-fw too hehe...oh well...

btw, any true tv junkie out there who wants to be co-fw?  


#7 of 134 by valerie on Mon Sep 15 02:17:19 1997:

This response has been erased.



#8 of 134 by senna on Mon Sep 15 06:17:37 1997:

Somehow, I had always thought there was one that I was missing.  If there
isn't, then its definitely a good idea.


#9 of 134 by arthurp on Tue Sep 16 20:44:06 1997:

I watch the new a couple time a month, but mainly...  Sounds like it'd 
be a popular conf, though.  :)


#10 of 134 by dang on Wed Sep 17 22:30:51 1997:

(I don't watch TV either, with the exception of Michigan Football Games (tm)
that I'm not at.)

Oops!  Mea culpa.  I meant to enter this item when I changed over co-op and
completely forget.  <sigh>  


#11 of 134 by snowth on Thu Sep 18 01:16:05 1997:

I never watch tv, but I would still read a conference about it. (It's like
how I don't write poetry, but I still regularly read the conf.) Good Idea!


#12 of 134 by krj on Thu Sep 18 03:51:34 1997:

So let's hurry it up, the new TV season is almost upon us.


#13 of 134 by raven on Sun Sep 21 15:09:40 1997:

As long as i get to enter the "Kill your television item" (I'm serious),
I will support the creation of this conference.


#14 of 134 by senna on Mon Sep 22 05:11:11 1997:

Too late, it's already there


#15 of 134 by davel on Mon Sep 22 11:41:33 1997:

But there won't be anything to prevent raven from entering his item.


#16 of 134 by raven on Tue Sep 30 19:30:06 1997:

Which I did in fact do.


#17 of 134 by valerie on Tue Sep 30 22:32:08 1997:

This response has been erased.



#18 of 134 by keesan on Sun Jan 4 00:23:37 1998:

Valerie said to write in here as the proper format for suggesting a fix-it
column (suggestions for a better name welcome).  I thought it might go under
environment (fixing things rather than filling the dump), she suggested
dwellings (but that would not include small appliances and miscellaneous
gadgets) or consumer.  Maybe both consumer and environment and even
hippie?  Reduce, reuse, repair.  The idea is, people who want to fix
or improve their houses, large or small appliances, stereo and other
electronic equipment, assorted gadgets, vehicles including bicycles, or  
even to repair or make clothing or furniture or baskets or canoes, or
whatever, would write in asking for advice, and hopefully receive helpful
suggestions.  For instance, another Grexer kindly brought over
two dead fax machines, and perhaps someone out there could tell us what
usually goes wrong with a Brother power supply.
        My roommate has fixed things by telephone (furnace wiring, and a
cat-locked-into-a-room) and would love to share experience with anything
mechanical or electrical.  We are also building a house and can give
advice on insulation and weatherstripping.   In return, I could ask for
help with making pants that fit, etc.
        Perhaps this would not all go under fix-it.  Is there a more
encompassing name for such an advice conference, or should we keep
this to strictly repairs and not making new things?  Do It Yourself? 
        People could also write in listing what skills they have to offer,
and you would have the choice of writing them directly, or writing in to
the conference if you want suggestions from several sources.  I, for
instance, have experience making soap and can read Albanian.  This could
be a different conference.  There was something called the Skills Exchange
going in the early eighties for a few years, where people signed up to
trade hours of work doing what they did best.  I don't know how well this
would work as a conference.  In the real-life Skills Exchange, everyone
wanted someone to do their cleaning.  I am afraid in this case everyone
might want someone to help with their software problems.



#19 of 134 by valerie on Sun Jan 4 07:07:34 1998:

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#20 of 134 by valerie on Sun Jan 4 07:08:52 1998:

This response has been erased.



#21 of 134 by dang on Tue Jan 6 01:43:17 1998:

I'd read such a cf.  Sounds neat. :)  ( I like "Do it Yourself" as a title)


#22 of 134 by keesan on Tue Jan 6 01:58:14 1998:

if nobody objects to a do it yourself conference, what do I do to start it?
Am I supposed to describe the purpose of it somewhere?


#23 of 134 by davel on Tue Jan 6 03:05:14 1998:

You've really done what you need to do to start it: requested it in this
item.  We now wait a little while for anyone who thinks it's a really
dumb idea to say so ... actually, to give people a chance to say things
like "that's already covered in the XYZ conference" and for you to reply
"Oh, I never realized there was an XYZ conf so I withdraw my request".
I don't think anyone's really likely to object in this case.  If cfadm
doesn't tell you in a few more days that it's been created, you bug cfadm
in email or scream really loud here, but that's not usually necessary.
If you don't want to FW it yourself, or all by yourself, you should be
scrounging for someone else, but from what you said I imagine you're
fine starting out all by yourself at least.

Note that our policy has always been to create conferences freely; others
may object, but the objections only make a difference if they convince
*you*.  (In some cases there have been objections which, on discussion,
have led to changes in the conception of the conference.  Look in the
ghosts of coops past for examples.)

You should be thinking of a capsule summary, suitable for the listing you get
by entering "help conf".  You should be busy designing the screens that come
up when people join & leave the conference, and (if you want) a "bulletin"
screen that they'll see only the first time (or if you change it).  But
there's no reason those have to be anything fancy unless *you* want to.
Oh, and you might consider any existing items in existing conferences
which might be good ones to link into your conference.

The only other thing I can think of is to see if you can locate the list of
special FW commands Valerie put together a long time ago - try item
26 in the info conference, maybe?


#24 of 134 by davel on Tue Jan 6 03:05:49 1998:

Oh, & I'd read such a conference, too.


#25 of 134 by srw on Tue Jan 6 03:21:27 1998:

Once your conf is created, you may want to design its appearance in backtalk,
too. 


#26 of 134 by mdw on Tue Jan 6 07:20:57 1998:

How would this differ from the "hardware" cf?


#27 of 134 by rcurl on Tue Jan 6 07:29:43 1998:

There would be lots of overlap with hardware, dwelling, laundry, radio,
health...and probably some more that don't come to mind. But I don't
mind. I would always use the more specific .cf, or ask to have a link to
it, if appropriate. 


#28 of 134 by valerie on Tue Jan 6 18:46:45 1998:

This response has been erased.



#29 of 134 by scott on Tue Jan 6 19:58:04 1998:

A lot of strange things get covered in "hardware", not just computers.


#30 of 134 by keesan on Tue Jan 6 20:17:12 1998:

I will go look at hardware and try, from all the information given above, to
understand what is involved in starting a conference.  What is a fair witness?
Valerie is right, there are a lot of repair problems in Dwelling.  I will wait
a few days and then try to write something up and get more help.  Do we want
to include people in items to be repaired?  If so, does this include both
physical health and broken hearts?  I would suggest only inanimate objects.
Thank you all for all the information, I will probably need lots of help as
I have only been using the bbs for a couple of weeks.


#31 of 134 by keesan on Tue Jan 6 20:35:01 1998:

I looked at the beginning of hardware, and it seems to be limited to
computers.  Perhaps computers should not be included in a repairs conference
since they have their own?  Do It Yourself could include making things,
repairing things, and offering to share advice in areas in which you are
skilled.  It fits alphabetically between consumer and dwelling in the consumer
related section and could be linked (however you do that) to laundry, radio,
dwelling, computer hardware, environment, and whatever else seems appropriate.
Health seems to have enough of its own space.  Nobody appears to be writing
in much to the health conference unless their health needs repairs.  My
roommate fixes bikes, which could also be linked.  Is there a clothing
conference?  Clothes also need fixing.  Today someone asked if we could fix
cats - I suggest that this not be included here.  Or fixing meals.  


#32 of 134 by davel on Tue Jan 6 21:38:16 1998:

I'd hope you won't automatically exclude computers, but do some browsing in
the hardware cf & link pretty selectively.

You don't link *conferences*, you link *items*.  Initially the item was
entered in some one conference.  A FW in another conference can link that item
into that conference.  It's then equally in both conferences, with all its
responses.  If it's killed in one (either) at some later point, it will
still exist in the other.  (Since the underlying Unix mechanism allows you
to tell that a file has multiple links but not (easily) what they are,
Picospan can (& does) tell you that the item is linked, but not what other
conferences it's in.)


#33 of 134 by mary on Tue Jan 6 21:43:49 1998:

Isn't all of this covered in the ING conference? ;-)


#34 of 134 by keesan on Tue Jan 6 23:47:59 1998:

I will look at the ING conference to see.
What is a fair witness and where do I find a volunteer?


#35 of 134 by scott on Tue Jan 6 23:54:22 1998:

At thi simplest, a fairwitness is a caretaker, although FWs do tend to try
to stimulate conversation by entering or linking items from other areas.  A
FW has some functions not available to regular items, such as being able to
kill any items in the conf (not just their own items), link items, set the
enter/exit screens.


#36 of 134 by keesan on Tue Jan 6 23:54:27 1998:

The ING conference appears to be mainly sports and recreation, not actually
making or fixing anything.  So far, I have only run across repairs for housing
and computers.  Where does one write in with a broken vacuum cleaner or chair
or washing machine or answering machine?  Or to offer to help with building
a canoe or birdhouse?


#37 of 134 by keesan on Tue Jan 6 23:57:52 1998:

Where do I find someone to be a fair witness?  I obviously am not qualified
if I can't tell a conference from an item.  It should probably be someone with
some repair skills as well as conference skills.  


#38 of 134 by scott on Wed Jan 7 00:22:44 1998:

Nah, you can learn as you go. FW is *not* a techie role.  

(I'm not sure of the history of the ING conference, but it serves as a place
to discuss things that "end in ing".  I found it FW-less a year or two ago,
and declared myself FW)

A DIY conf would be cool.


#39 of 134 by arthurp on Wed Jan 7 03:58:11 1998:

Sounds cool.  I'd add it to my cflist.  As to the FW thing, that list of
commands from coop 26 or where ever should be enough to figure out what
you need to know.  This is a neat idea.
(Hardware seems to be for things electronic or maybe electric.  Subtle
difference from computers.


#40 of 134 by n8nxf on Wed Jan 7 12:34:28 1998:

A DIY conference does sound interesting.  I want to do a DIY air to air
heat exchanger.


#41 of 134 by keesan on Wed Jan 7 18:45:16 1998:

Scott, I just asked you (under storm windows) to be a fair witness.  Klaus,
same request to you.  I don't think a new member should be doing this alone.
There would definitely be a lot of overlap with dwellings and hardware.  But
I suppose I could figure out eventually what to do in writing up something
(how do I draw a wrench?) and how to link items.  Somewhere we have plans for
a heat exchanger, but we are planning to use a central dehumidifier and air
cleaner instead, which conserves a lot more heat.


#42 of 134 by keesan on Wed Jan 7 19:29:16 1998:

I suggest that computer hardware not be included in this conference.  Please
vote on whether home building and repairs should be included, as Dwellings
seems to be mostly about this, and most of the Dwellings items would be linked
to Do It Yourself.  If we omit computers and houses, should we include large
appliances other than furnaces and water heaters, these being stoves,
refrigerators, washing machines, and the like, or just small appliances like
vacuum cleaners, waffle irons, hair curling devices, lamps, power tools, space
heaters, fans, and other more portable things like furniture, clothing,
vehicles, audio and video equipment, and office equipment other than
computers?  (Or is there still any office equipment not considered a form of
computer hardware?)  Is there some other conference for auto repair?  If there
is, I suggest not including cars in this one.  Anything else that could be
omitted, or would people like everything included, even computers?


#43 of 134 by scott on Wed Jan 7 20:55:51 1998:

I'd be happy to be co-fw.

However, I'd most likely link very little to start with, just to see if the
new conf develops its own set of items w/o help.


#44 of 134 by keesan on Wed Jan 7 22:55:08 1998:

Thanks Scott, and please give me your opinion on whether to include home
building and repair, and computer hardware, which seem to have their own
spots, and auto repair.  This weekend I will try to write something up, and
do I post it here for suggested changes?


#45 of 134 by scott on Thu Jan 8 01:38:07 1998:

Actually leave as simple as you can, since then it can evolve instead of being
defined too closely.  Just "DIY" and see what happens.  Traditionally, the
first item sets the mood, then people just enter items as they have questions
or projects.


#46 of 134 by keesan on Thu Jan 8 02:00:01 1998:

But will that leave any topics for Dwelling?  Or will everything in Dwelling
be linked to DIY?  I may note in the introduction that these conferences also
cover building and repairs.


#47 of 134 by dang on Thu Jan 8 04:07:03 1998:

Sure.  People who are thinking in terms of homes will look in dwellings. 
People who are thinking in terms of fix-it will look in DIY.  I agree with
Scott.  Let it run for a while and see what comes up.


#48 of 134 by valerie on Thu Jan 8 04:21:40 1998:

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#49 of 134 by n8nxf on Thu Jan 8 12:30:59 1998:

In all honesty, I don't seeing what my being a fw would help?  At this
point I am trying my best to stay away from more responsibility.  I
would rather be entering my thoughts in the DIY conference than trying
to decide if this item belongs it it or not, etc.  I don't see how adding
me as a fair whitness would improve the quality of the conference in any
way.  I also feel that keesan has all she needs to be a fw.  It does not
take a lick of technical know-how to be a fw.  (At least not the way I
define technical ;-)
 
I am also pretty neutral about creating a DIY conference.  We have a lot
of related conferences on this system that see very little input.  Part
of me would like to also see a reclamation process where dead conferences
are rolled into a related conference and the dead one killed.  Perhaps
old, outdated, inactive items should also be archived so that a new user
isn't presented with a list of topics, several pages long, where the 
latest response for 50% of them was five years ago and has no informative
content.


#50 of 134 by mta on Thu Jan 8 21:03:30 1998:

I'd look in on the DYI conference.  I'm not very handy, but I might learn
something.  ;)


#51 of 134 by keesan on Fri Jan 9 00:34:46 1998:

Klaus, I certainly did not intend to pressure you into being a fair witness,
I was just asking for volunteers and already got one.  (Thanks, Scott).  The
reason I was suggesting this conference is that I cannot figure out where to
write in with questions about repair topics which do not have to do with
houses or computers.  For instance piano tuning does not seem to fit in a
discussion of music, classical or otherwise.  May I, in the introduction, list
a number of possible discussion topics which would not exclude others?  I was
thinking of a list like:  tools, appliances (from lamps to refrigerators),
vehicles (bikes, wheelchairs, canoes), gadgets, home entertainment,
telephones, furniture, toys, clothing.  Topics would relate not to the
purchase or use of these things but to making, maintaining, modifying or
repairing them.  I could also suggest looking in dwellings, (computer)
hardware, laundry, radio, transportation, etc. for related topics.  How many
lines long should an introduction be?  


#52 of 134 by keesan on Fri Jan 9 01:51:51 1998:

Scott, could you write up the introduction to this conference?  Something
including making, maintaining, and repairing of inanimate objects?  Or use
your own judgment, you are more familiar with the bbs.  I am still trying to
learn to use the Pico editor.
Thanks to all for suggestions, and please write in with problems and fixes
for them.


#53 of 134 by cmcgee on Fri Jan 9 03:09:28 1998:

The consumer conference might be a very good place for the kinds of things
keesan wants to talk about.


#54 of 134 by keesan on Fri Jan 9 03:56:43 1998:

There are some things that won't fit in the consumer conference, which seems
to be more about acquiring things than keeping them working.  But I guess this
is still under discussion.


#55 of 134 by cmcgee on Fri Jan 9 04:03:49 1998:

*grin* Maybe this should be the ANTI-consumer conference, eh?
BTW whoever sets up this conference, could we have both DIY and Do It Yourself
as the conf names?


#56 of 134 by keesan on Fri Jan 9 20:25:40 1998:

I was going to make the very same suggestion, having discovered that it does
not matter whether I spell co-op or coop, dwelling or dwellings.
I count eight people interested in such a conference, and four who suggest
that there might be a lot of overlap with other conferences (hardware, ing,
consumer, and Valerie also suggested dwelling, laundry and radio).  Can we
try a DIY conference and if there is insufficient interest or too many linked
items, delete (or remove or kill or whatever) it?  Should it be listed
directly after Consumer (which would give it that Anti-Consumer touch) and
before Dwelling, or as a Hobby?
Scott, let me know if you are willing to do whatever else is required.  I have
not had much luck drawing a wrench with X's.


#57 of 134 by gibson on Sat Jan 10 04:02:52 1998:

        Count me # 9.


#58 of 134 by n8nxf on Sat Jan 10 15:08:38 1998:

No, keesan, I did not get the feeling you were pressuring me.  I just wanted
to explain my position.


#59 of 134 by valerie on Sat Jan 10 22:41:56 1998:

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#60 of 134 by bmoran on Sun Jan 11 01:18:14 1998:

Count me #10 (this should confuse her even more).


#61 of 134 by gibson on Sun Jan 11 08:19:56 1998:

        in #56 cindy counts 8 people interested in such a conference.


#62 of 134 by remmers on Sun Jan 11 13:58:42 1998:

        (A specific number of interested parties is not required
        to start a conference, in any case.)



#63 of 134 by valerie on Sun Jan 11 15:12:56 1998:

This response has been erased.



#64 of 134 by keesan on Sun Jan 11 18:49:50 1998:

Thinking it over, and considering that people are now said to 'consume' even
services, such as 'mental health consumers', I like the idea of a heading such
as 
      Do It Yourself

        The Anti-Consumer Conference

Are we supposed to have a picture, and if so, any ideas and can someone
volunteer to draw it?  


#65 of 134 by rcurl on Sun Jan 11 19:24:38 1998:

"anti-consumer"? Seems more to be "smart-consumer". 


#66 of 134 by keesan on Sun Jan 11 23:39:14 1998:

I think the idea was that instead of purchasing goods or services, you would
do it yourself.  A good consumer purchases things and throws them out, rather
than keeping them going or making them.  Anyway, that was someone else's
suggestion (I can't recall whose, is there some easy way to back up?) and
maybe they want to explain it.


#67 of 134 by keesan on Mon Jan 12 00:32:11 1998:

Maybe 'non-consumer' instead?  Do It Yourself, the conference for
non-consumers?


#68 of 134 by keesan on Mon Jan 12 00:34:51 1998:

Anti-consumer was Colleen's idea.


#69 of 134 by arthurp on Mon Jan 12 04:59:54 1998:

So are we almost ready to make this?  Maybe I should set it all up and let
the FW's start their work?  I'm temped to make it since I like the idea.  


#70 of 134 by rcurl on Mon Jan 12 08:15:57 1998:

A *good* consumer consumes carefully and wisely, recycles, and fixes
things. All humans are consumers, but how one does it makes a difference.
I certainly put myself into the diy category but also try to be a smart
consumer.


#71 of 134 by aruba on Mon Jan 12 08:40:45 1998:

I think it depends on who you ask - an economist might say that a good
consumer is someone who buys a lot of stuff.  But I'm with you, Rane.  Maybe
we could say "responsible consumer" or "efficient consumer"?


#72 of 134 by remmers on Mon Jan 12 12:06:27 1998:

    Re #69: This proposal has had substantially more discussion
    than is normally required before creating a conference, so
    it's certainly legit to go ahead and create it, especially
    if it's been decided who the fw's are going to be.

    The policy has always been that if a proposer still wants
    the conference after a few days of discussion here, and
    at least one fw has materialized, then the conference is
    created. Doesn't depend on whether a cfadm likes the idea
    or not. So it's basically up to keesan at this point.



#73 of 134 by keesan on Mon Jan 12 16:43:14 1998:

Go ahead.  How about just the Do it Yourself Conference as a header, and we
can stop arguing about what is a consumer.  (If you cut your own hair, are
you a consumer?).  I will refrain from attempting to draw a do it yourselfer.


#74 of 134 by other on Mon Jan 12 17:40:57 1998:

unless you made the tool with which you cut your hair, by hand and without
using any other tools, yes, you *are* a consumer.


#75 of 134 by keesan on Mon Jan 12 18:29:09 1998:

Humans are tool-using animals.  Are hands tools?


#76 of 134 by aruba on Mon Jan 12 20:56:46 1998:

What if you just borrowed the scissors from someone else?  :)


#77 of 134 by rcurl on Mon Jan 12 21:16:56 1998:

Depends on whether you return them or not....


#78 of 134 by remmers on Mon Jan 12 22:25:08 1998:

        Sounds like an excellent topic for the philosophical
        ramblings item in the new Do It Yourself conference. :)



#79 of 134 by keesan on Mon Jan 12 22:44:46 1998:

I was going to suggest that very same thing.  When do we start the conference?


#80 of 134 by keesan on Tue Jan 13 01:34:36 1998:

Arbornet has a Fixit conference, defined as Home Fix-It for Do-It-Yourselfers.
Someone linked a VCR repair question between Fixit and Advice.  Otherwise
Fixit was indeed home fix-it.  Is there anything else that I should be doing
before someone starts this conference, so we can talk about what a Do It
Yourselfer is in the proper conference?


#81 of 134 by lilmo on Tue Jan 13 02:16:46 1998:

If you haven't already, check out item:info 26 for fw commands


#82 of 134 by arthurp on Tue Jan 13 03:42:51 1998:

Fairwitnesses hear this:  It is so.  :)  Have at it with the startup
stuff screens and such.


#83 of 134 by keesan on Sun Feb 8 20:19:33 1998:

I looked for a conference on multiculturalism or ethnicity or even race
relations, and did not find one.  Is there one?  Grexers are clearly not all
from the same cultural group.  I would be especially interested to learn about
interethnic problems or concerns in Mexico, India, the Netherlands, etc, where
the various groups have coexisted for far longer than in the US.  And of
course also about the relations between people of different ethnic or cultural
groups in this country.  Would someone from another country or one of the many
non-majority ethnic/cultural groups in this country want to be FW?  (Assuming
of course that there is not already a conference that I missed).


#84 of 134 by e4808mc on Mon Feb 9 02:07:58 1998:

Perhaps entering a few items in agora to gauge the level of interest in such
a conference would be useful. While we have one person from the Netherlands
and a few from India who participate, Im not sure we're really diverse enough
to support a well-informed discussion, especially from the minority cultures
in those countries.  


#85 of 134 by keesan on Mon Feb 9 04:32:38 1998:

Isn't everyone in India from a 'minority culture', considering the number of
ethnic groups there?  Is anyone in this country interested?  Are most grexers
of European ancestry?


#86 of 134 by valerie on Mon Feb 9 12:59:16 1998:

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#87 of 134 by keesan on Mon Feb 9 19:05:21 1998:

Will do.  Thanks both of you.


#88 of 134 by mta on Mon Feb 9 20:47:16 1998:

I like the idea, too.  But also whether we have the diversity here in the
conferences to support a conference.


#89 of 134 by remmers on Tue Feb 10 00:51:47 1998:

(An advance demonstration of interest has not been necessary
in the past for starting a conference.)


#90 of 134 by raven on Tue Feb 10 07:07:20 1998:

I would be very interested in a conference that discussed different cultures.
I think it could help be a draw to conferences for some of our people
who log in from around the world.


#91 of 134 by valerie on Tue Feb 10 13:34:23 1998:

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#92 of 134 by keesan on Wed Feb 11 20:13:31 1998:

Please see the test item in Agora on intercultural relations, as of yesterday
there had not been too much interest.  Anybody interested, please respond to
that item (95?).  Raven, have you experience as a FW?  My one and only
conference (DIY) seems to be doing fine without me, I suppose I could FW
another but I still want an experienced helper or two.  I feel a lot more
qualified on this subject than DIY, as I lived in two parts of former
Yugoslavia for a few years and, as a neutral outsider, met people from
possibly every ethnic group there, all of whom had odd stereotypes about the
others.  My other question in the agora item was whether to include genetic
groups other than ethnic, such as tall or short people, and whether to include
age minorities.


#93 of 134 by keesan on Fri Feb 13 00:25:18 1998:

My attempt to start an agora item on cultural differences has quickly turned
into a discussion of blood typing and DNA fingerprinting.  If anyone really
wants a conference on ethnic, racial, or even social groups, speak now.


#94 of 134 by keesan on Mon Feb 16 15:13:41 1998:

The test item on cultural differences rapidly turned into issues of race and
DNA fingerprinting.  My next suggestion is, instead, a conference on genetics.
I have found genetic issues in agora (human cloning), health (transgenic
rapeseed, cancer), femme (colorblindness, depression), and nature (cloning
again, birth of agriculture, gene for emphysema).  This is a very rapidly
growing field that affects many areas of life.  There are genetically-related
diseases and disabilities (cancer, some of it due to loss of the ozone layer
and freon, AIDS, manic depression), human variation (races, heights and
weights, there is a gene for sexual orientation), agriculture (plant and
animal breeding, transgenic industrial and commercial plants, cloning), law
(DNA fingerprinting, and blood typing), ethics (cruelty free testing of
cosmetics, use of chimps in AIDS research), biodiversity and habitat
preservation, genetic effects of electromagnetic radiation (ELFs) and common
chemicals, in vitro fertilization and surrogate motherhood (genetically
different birth and legal parents)...  Any interest?


#95 of 134 by rcurl on Mon Feb 16 20:43:36 1998:

I'm inclined to think these arise not so much because of an interest in
genetics as an interest in medicine, health, behavior, nature, science,
law, ethics, environment, etc. Users would not be likely to go to a
genetics conference to discuss what really interests them. However such
a conference could be created as an archive of items related by having
a genetics thread. It could be useful for persons looking for genetics
information. Are any other cfs used this way?


#96 of 134 by mta on Mon Feb 16 20:44:33 1998:

Yup.  And I bet you'd get a lot of takers if you announced it in all those
conferences you mentioned. 


#97 of 134 by mta on Mon Feb 16 20:46:02 1998:

Rane slipped in.

I know I'd be interested in a genetics conference where i don't participate
in any of those other conferences.


#98 of 134 by keesan on Mon Feb 16 23:51:13 1998:

re #96.  I announced it in agora and I think it was health, and got Rane. 
I will take your suggestion and put in a few more announcements.  The science
conference seems to be mostly applied physics, as in Popular Science.


#99 of 134 by cmcgee on Tue Feb 17 01:04:23 1998:

So why couldnt the science conference be augmented with genetics items?


#100 of 134 by mta on Tue Feb 17 21:34:38 1998:

No reason it couldn't.  But I'd still be interested in a more specific
conference if it formed.  (Less stuff I don't care about to sort through,
y'know.  ;)


#101 of 134 by mta on Tue Feb 17 21:37:03 1998:

Incidently, I'd like to offer the Hippie Conference, which has been comtatose
for most of the last several years, either to a new FW or to be archived and
deleted.


#102 of 134 by cmcgee on Tue Feb 17 21:39:21 1998:

Funny, I'm still getting stuff new in that conference every month or so.


#103 of 134 by cmcgee on Tue Feb 17 21:46:48 1998:

This response has been erased.



#104 of 134 by keesan on Wed Feb 18 01:18:48 1998:

Misti, if you are really interested in a genetics conference, and if you are
planning to give up the Hippie conference as FW, would you be a FW in a new
conference?  I have no experience as a FW except for the login of DIY.  Does
it make any sense to start a conference then cancel if no interest?


#105 of 134 by rcurl on Wed Feb 18 08:30:46 1998:

You don't need any experience as a FW before you get experience. There
is a list of commands FWs can use to link items from other cfs, and
that is the main thing you do. Soem FWs try to stimulate activity in
their cfs, but when one sees how many cfs get along fine with FWs that
no longer participate, one realizes there are no especially challenging
tasks. Why don't you take it on, and learn? 


#106 of 134 by keesan on Wed Feb 18 19:15:11 1998:

Rane, does this mean you would visit a genetics conference if I were FW?


#107 of 134 by rcurl on Thu Feb 19 07:37:11 1998:

Probably...I would need to watch that you don't start promoting Lysenkoism...
;->


#108 of 134 by keesan on Thu Feb 19 17:24:37 1998:

Well, I just wanted to know if I should present both sides of a question or
just one, and let you handle the other side.  Since there seems to be no
interest in this conference, I will wait until an interesting issue comes up
(say in one of my translations) and post it somewhere else.


#109 of 134 by mta on Thu Feb 19 21:22:37 1998:

keesan,  sure I'd be willing to co-FW with you.  Though Ran is right.  There
are no especial challenges to it.  I can happily answer any questions you might
have, though.

Grex's policy has always been to start any conference that is requested and let
the users vote with their participation -- so sure, it makes sense to start the
conference, advertise it, and see what develops.

Colleen, you're still getting stuff?  I'll have to go see if I "forgot" certain
items a long time ago or something.  I'm glad there are signs of life there. 
Wann be a fair witness?  ;)


#110 of 134 by cmcgee on Fri Feb 20 19:38:11 1998:

Keesan, fws dont present "sides" of a question.  Theirs is more of a
facilitator role of making sure that problems that arise are handled in a
mature, community-focused fashion.  Your job has more to do with managing the
computer stuff like linking items than to present a point of view. 

Take a look at the fw commands to see what I mean.



#111 of 134 by valerie on Sat Feb 21 05:29:54 1998:

This response has been erased.



#112 of 134 by keesan on Wed Feb 25 22:46:54 1998:

How about a human diversity conference, including cultural and genetic
diversity, called 'diversity'?  I'll see where Agora 94 drifts to next.
re #110, I was teasing Rane, who always seems to take the opposite side in
any science-oriented discussion.  I can always count on him to find something
on the internet which disagrees with what I found there.  I did read the fw
commands, after I sort of volunteered myself into being Fw for DIY, but
there has been no need to link anything there, it is always busy there.


#113 of 134 by rcurl on Thu Feb 26 08:26:13 1998:

No, no... you take the opposite side.  :) 


#114 of 134 by keesan on Thu Mar 12 18:45:44 1998:

I have been entering diversity-related items in Agora and they all
seem to be of general interest.  #94 (intercultural relations) is still going
strong, and has covered culture, race, genetic resistance to disease,
evolution, and now social classes.  Talking to strangers was about nature vs
nurter (genetics vs environment) in determining personality.  Career choices
is about what makes people prefer different sorts of work.  Formality is about
hierarchies and social rank.  I have a few other diversity-related topics in
mind, such as different styles of organization, pet personalities.  These all
seem appropriate to agora, should I also bother linking them to a separate
conference?  


#115 of 134 by remmers on Fri Mar 13 00:03:13 1998:

Why yes, link them to the diversity conference.


#116 of 134 by davel on Sat Mar 14 03:30:18 1998:

Right.  On at least two grounds.  First, and in general, it's easier to
*find* things of interest if they're in a conference devoted to that topic.
Second, and in particular, later this month this Agora is due to become the
*old* agora, & discussion is likely to die an early death.


#117 of 134 by keesan on Sat Mar 14 05:18:52 1998:

Is anyone else going to comment before the spring equinox?
And does this mean our dowsing discussion ends or does it get carried over.
We are still going back to refer to old responses.
How about Diversity - Differences within and between groups?
I just remembered Dowsing is linked to Paranormal, no problem.


#118 of 134 by keesan on Mon Mar 16 04:26:23 1998:

Nobody in agora seems to care either way whether there is a Diversity
conference, so can we try it for a while (quick before Agora moves somewhere
else and I have to find it to link a few items).
Diversity - Differences between and within groups of living creatures

The login id would mention things like race, ethnicity, religion, social
class, rank, anthropology, sociology, genetics, nature vs nurture.

Misti was willing to be co FW, is that still okay with Misti?

Any better ideas for a description for help conf?

I have lots more ideas, including asking people how they feel they and their
partner are complementary in personality and ability.
(Will wait for the next agora.  And I also wondered just what happens when
a new agora starts to the old items still being discussed.  Do they get copied
over in entirety, or restarted?  Would it be possible to retain items that
have had responses in the final week of the old agora?)

Rane explained in Agora 26 how to avoid having to read items linked from agora
which are marked new in the conference to which they are linked, you just type
seen at the ok prompt, thanks Rane.


#119 of 134 by rcurl on Mon Mar 16 06:50:55 1998:

The *whole* previous agora will be saved as oldagora. You can join oldagora
just like any other cf - and you can continue to respond in it, for that
matter. I just keep both "agora" and "oldagora" in my .cflist. Quite of
bit of activity continues in oldagora. Some more recent items are linked
from oldagora to agora, by the usual procedure (you have to ask the agora fw,
of course). No items are automatically linked from oldagora to agora.


#120 of 134 by mta on Tue Mar 17 01:44:05 1998:

Keesan,  I'm on a borrowed computer tonight because my darling son killed
mine.  I'm willing to be co-FW, but unless you want to call me I might not
be much help for the first while...


#121 of 134 by keesan on Tue Mar 17 01:56:20 1998:

May we offer you a free PC clone?  Or help with resuscitation?
I was wondering where you had gotten to.  Good luck.


#122 of 134 by davel on Tue Mar 17 22:57:49 1998:

What weapon did he use, Misti?


#123 of 134 by scg on Tue Mar 17 23:50:10 1998:

I think he told me he used an ethernet card.


#124 of 134 by keesan on Wed Mar 18 18:00:08 1998:

Am I supposed to wave a magic wand now to create a conference, or is that the
responsibility of staff (after they finish the magic of installing the 670?)
(I have not looked yet to see if it exists, did I speak too soon?)


#125 of 134 by keesan on Wed Mar 18 18:01:18 1998:

It does not exist, at least not under life roles (between disability and
femme).


#126 of 134 by remmers on Wed Mar 18 18:53:26 1998:

A conference administrator (cfadm) person has to create the
conference and install fairwitnesses. I am such a person and
will do so later today if nobody beats me to it. (I see no
need to wait for the 670 switchover unless you'd rather.)
From my reading, the conference is to be named "diversity"
and have keesan and mta as fw's. Rather than continuing to
discuss particulars of the setup here, send mail to 'cfadm'
as to any other details.


#127 of 134 by keesan on Thu Mar 19 19:43:39 1998:

Thanks, John, for setting it up.  The conference is now open, with
an introductory item and one linked item, and I am eagerly awaiting
new ideas and members.


#128 of 134 by keesan on Mon Mar 23 17:45:07 1998:

Could someone in cfadmin please put the necessary line in the conf listing
for Diversity before I try too hard to recruit members?
Diversity - Cultural and other differences among living beings
John Remmers already set up the conference.
And you should be able to access it by typing race or multicultural.
Any other suggestions for ways to reach it?


#129 of 134 by remmers on Tue Mar 24 01:05:14 1998:

The requested line in the 'help conferences' listing is now
there, as are the 'race' and 'multicultural' aliases. (The latter
is abbreviatable as 'mul'.) Didn't get done until today due to
Grex downtime over the weekend.


#130 of 134 by keesan on Tue Mar 24 01:07:57 1998:

Thanks John, I did not want to bother you personally if you were busy.


#131 of 134 by davel on Tue Mar 24 02:33:01 1998:

(In such a case - or in fact for *any* such conference-admin - email cfadmin.
That will get to all the cfadms, and most likely at least one of them will
be available.  Certainly it should get their attention as quickly as posting.)


#132 of 134 by remmers on Tue Mar 24 07:25:37 1998:

(Right. In fact, I so indicated back in #126.)


#133 of 134 by valerie on Wed Mar 25 22:59:46 1998:

This response has been erased.



#134 of 134 by davel on Thu Mar 26 02:23:24 1998:

Oops.  Sorry, Valerie.


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