Grex Classicalmusic Conference

Item 5: What about recordings?

Entered by davel on Fri Dec 6 11:55:01 1996:

47 new of 156 responses total.


#110 of 156 by md on Tue May 7 17:05:54 2002:

It doesn't just mean common.  As applied to music -- e.g., La mer, to 
the person who refused to attend the concert - it's definition 4 from 
Merriam-Webster: "a : lacking in cultivation, perception, or taste : 
COARSE b : morally crude, undeveloped, or unregenerate : GROSS c : 
ostentatious or excessive in expenditure or display : PRETENTIOUS."  
Definition 4c probably comes closest.

108 is just me.


#111 of 156 by rcurl on Tue May 7 17:38:18 2002:

"Common" has the the same definitions (among others). In both cases these
are matters of personal judgement. I prefer to use the term "common",
as it is not laden with the "uppity and elitist" insinuations we usually
attach to "vulgar".

Common, adj, 5. Commonplace;  not excellent or distinguished in tone or
quality; banal, coarse; vulgar; low.

La mer is a fine piece of music, in my opinion, not common, much less
vulgar. Si gustibus non disputandem est.


#112 of 156 by md on Tue May 7 19:00:45 2002:

I'm sure Debussy rests easier now.  ;-)


#113 of 156 by rcurl on Tue May 7 19:24:47 2002:

Debussy is dead and gone. 

I hardly think that any classical music that caused a near riot at its
premier can be called either common or vulgar.



#114 of 156 by md on Tue May 7 19:50:11 2002:

Why not?  

(Just asking -- I mean, I love La mer whether or not anyone thinks its 
vulgar.  I didn't even bring the subject up.  I'm just curious what 
relation you think "causing a riot" has to "not being vulgar."  The two 
things don't seem related.)  


#115 of 156 by rcurl on Tue May 7 23:19:42 2002:

Classical audiences don't riot at the common or vulgar, they go to
sleep. 


#116 of 156 by coyote on Thu May 9 20:59:11 2002:

Shoot, they go to sleep even during the sublime.


#117 of 156 by gelinas on Tue Jun 4 03:39:21 2002:

Uh... Le sacre du printemps (spelling may be off) caused a riot at its first
performance, specifically because it was 'vulgar'.


#118 of 156 by md on Tue Jul 9 23:44:40 2002:

Speaking of vulgar:

I picked up a CD with three pieces that meet all the requirements I 
listed above: simple obvious melodies, galumphing rhythms, repetition 
in place of development, overly broad gestures, rampant heart-on-sleeve 
sentimentality, soap-box appeal to the masses, and the composer shoving 
his own personality forward.  Specifically, thee works for organ and 
orchestra: Francis Poulenc's Concerto for Organ, Strings and Tympani; 
Pierre Petit's Concertino for Organ, Strings and Percussion; and Samuel 
Barber's Toccata Festiva, which is a 16-minute work for organ and full 
orchestra.  (Well, I don't know if Pierre Petit is shoving his 
personality forward in his Concertino because it's the only music of 
his I've ever heard and I have no idea what his musical personality was 
like.  But Barber and Poulenc are all over you like a couple of big 
dogs when you walk in the door.)

The Poulenc piece appealed to me greatly when I was much younger but 
not so much anymore.  It's a little too calculatedly melodramatic, too 
Phantom-of-the-Opera.  The Petit piece is tuneful and listenable, but 
that's about it.  

Barber's Toccata Festiva is mostly a dark gnarly piece of music, with a 
few passages that the liner notes describe quite accurately 
as "ravishing."  This piece is a textbook example of Barber's genius 
with cadences -- of sending a tune on its way and then bringing it back 
home in the most utterly satisfying manner imaginable.  He is on a par 
with the greatest composers of all time in this one respect.  The 
Toccata is in loose sonata-allegro form with a brief cadenza after the 
development section.  This cadenza is the Toccata's Achilles heel.  
It's for pedals only, and hasn't a trace of Samuel Barber in it -- in 
fact, it might not even have been written by him.  (My private theory 
is that Thomas Schippers wrote most of it for him.)  But over-all this 
is one of the gems of Barber's middle period, along with the Piano 
Concerto and the opera Vanessa.  This performance, by Dame Gillian Weir 
at the organ and the English Chamber Orchestra conducted by Raymond 
Leppard, stands up well to the original recording by E. Power Biggs and 
Ormandy/Philadelphia.  16'20" -- a dollar a minute at Harmony House, 
well worth it.


#119 of 156 by orinoco on Thu Jul 11 18:32:33 2002:

I'd be tempted to say that's what you get with music for organ and
orchestra.  Murphy's law tells me that now someone will come out of the
woodwork with a tasteful, refined and inobtrusive organ and orchestra
piece, but something tells me that's not too likely.



#120 of 156 by md on Sun Aug 4 13:17:19 2002:

I went to Harmony House Classical in Royal Oak to see what their going-
out-of-business sale looks like.  25% off everything.  People were 
buying *stacks* of CDs.  

I picked up the new release of John Adams's Naive and Sentimental Music 
and the Abbado recording on DG of Pelleas et Melisande.  I have Pelleas 
twice on LP, by Ernest Ansermet and by Pierre Boulez, but not on CD 
yet.  I still like the Ansermet best.  The new John Adams piece is 
[looks apologetic] kinda boring.  Sorry.  I mean, if I'd never heard 
any of his other music I might find this fascinating, but it's just the 
same old same old.  I dunno, maybe I should lsten to it more.  Adams is 
one composer I really want to like.

The guy behind the counter said they're going to be open for a few more 
months, so I didn't buy a stack of CDs on the spot myself.


#121 of 156 by md on Wed Aug 7 01:01:32 2002:

Did I mention how much I love Debussy's Pelleas et Melisande?  I've 
been listening to my new Abbado CD and am enthralled by it all over 
again.  Can you convert from an American to un Francais?  I mean, not 
move there, just change my ethnic heritage?  How about if I brush up my 
French and start shrugging a lot?


#122 of 156 by md on Wed Sep 4 23:36:01 2002:

I had to be in Royal Oak yesterday so I stopped in on Harmony House 
Classical again.  Everything is now 40% off, but there isn't a lot left 
in stock.  I picked up three CDs: Wm. Schuman's Violin Concerto, New 
England Triptych, and Variations on "America"; Edward MacDowell's two 
orchestral suites and a Hamlet & Ophelia piece; and Jaarvi and the DSO 
performing Copland's 3rd and Harris's 3rd.  

I really like Jaarvi's way with American music.  His Barber 
performances are excellent.  On this CD, he's more crisp and less 
rhapsodic with the Harris 3rd than I'm used to hearing.  I need to 
listen to it some more.  The Copland 3rd is wonderful, though.  Very 
powerful and monumental, as if Jaarvi is throwing himself into it.  The 
Schuman Violin Concerto is new to me.  It needs more listening than I 
have time to give it right now, alas, but I'll get there eventually.  
The MacDowell suites are teenage favorites of mine that still have a 
lot of charm in them, at least for me.  The liner notes are a little 
disparaging, though.

Chatting with one of the sales guys (who used to be an announcer on 
WQRS, which explains why his voice soinded so familiar), I learned that 
some investors are looking at Harmony House Classical, if not at the 
whole chain, so there is slight reason to hope that they'll keep their 
jobs there and that we'll keep our best retail shop of that kind in our 
area.


#123 of 156 by coyote on Sat Sep 7 03:35:06 2002:

I certainly hope they find some way to continue!

I was there last weekend and came away with almost a shoeboxfull of cds...
way more than I could reasonably afford but I couldn't help it.

That Jarvi recording is very enjoyable, and it did take me a few listens to
accept the crispness of the Harris 3.  One of the new cds I picked up,
actually, was Bernstein doing Harris 3 with New York: needless to say, quite
different from the Jarvi.


#124 of 156 by md on Sat Sep 7 15:20:41 2002:

An old Bernstein recording of the Harris 3rd is on the flip side of 
Benstein's "Jeremiah" Symphony on an LP that I still have somewhere.  
It must date from around 1960, if not earlier.  I have a more recent 
version of Bernstein conducting the Harris 3rd on CD, coupled with with 
Schuman's 3rd.  I really never imagined there was another way of 
performing it until I heard that Jarvi/DSO CD.  Jarvi/DSO did a CD with 
music by some African American composers I've never heard of, that 
Harmoney House had several copies of.  Have you heard this one?  Worth 
having at 40% off?


#125 of 156 by coyote on Sun Sep 8 17:59:35 2002:

I think I did hear that CD you mentioned, I believe the Ann Arbor library had
if you'd like to take a listen before deciding on it.  From what I remember
(it was about 2 years ago) I did enjoy the recording, but I never gave it a
good critical listen.  I had mainly checked it out for the Elligton piece on
it, "The Three Black Kings," because an orchestra I was in was playing the
MLK section of it.  Sorry that's not a very helpful review!

The Harris recording on the Bernstein CD I just got dates from 1962, so I
wonder if it's the same one...


#126 of 156 by md on Wed Sep 25 18:17:43 2002:

Morton Feldman: Piano and String Quartet.  Kronos Quartet with Aki 
Takahashi.  

A recent poll on one of my Feldman lists showed this to be the most 
popular Feldman recording with the members.  It’s an hour and twenty 
minutes of piano arpeggios and ghostly string chords, played pianissimo 
throughout.  Every once in a while one of the instruments will play an 
isolated note or small series of notes.  About two-thirds of the way 
through, the music changes character and becomes a series of evenly 
spaced chords by the string quartet against isolated piano notes that 
are gradually revealed to be the familiar arpeggios in slo-mo.  The 
music finally reverts to an "older and wiser" version of the opening 
sounds.  

Feldman didn’t think his music was “minimal,” and he didn’t regard 
himself as a minimalist.  And in fact, his music doesn’t remotely 
resemble that of any of the minimalists when you hear it played, only 
when you read descriptions of it like this one.  So don’t listen to it 
if you’re a Glass or Reich or Adams or Riley fan looking for more of 
same.  Here’s what it is: You know the kind of music you sometimes hear 
in the background of a movie when the heroine opens the door to an 
attic filled with mysterious objects, light from a window streaming in 
through the dusty air, the whole scene enigmatic but not especially 
menacing or foreboding.  Silence.  A quiet piano arpeggio in no 
recognizable key over a hushed string chord.  Silence.  Repeat.  
Silence.  Repeat.  Now turn the movie off and let the music go on like 
that by itself for 80 minutes.  


#127 of 156 by coyote on Thu Sep 26 05:01:34 2002:

I was looking to buy my first Feldman recording about a month ago and
considered this one that you're talking about, but I decided ultimately on
a recording that featured Coptic Light, Piano and Orchestra, and Cello and
Orchestra.  I didn't know what to expect, never having heard Feldman before,
only having heard about him, but I was still very surprised by the music. 
It's really not like anything else I've heard.  Very hypnotic.  I don't know
that I initially liked it, but once I withdrew and listened to the music
on a different time scale I really began to enjoy it.  I guess in that
sense the composer it most reminds me of is Gavin Bryers, though with a
certain added complexity and sophistication.


#128 of 156 by md on Thu Sep 26 12:39:47 2002:

Good choice.  I like all three of those pieces, but I'm crazy about 
Coptic Light.  I think I might've entered an intemperate rave about it 
up there somewhere.  


#129 of 156 by dbratman on Thu Sep 26 21:58:24 2002:

"Piano and String Quartet" is the Feldman work I know best, and the 
work that originally sold me on this composer. I picked it up in the 
first place because I like the quintet for piano & strings as a 
combination of instruments.

For what it's worth, it strikes me, while listening to it, as very much 
resembling, and in the same spirit as, the music of LaMonte Young, the 
original minimalist, and a good bit of Terry Riley's too.  It's far 
closer to their work in style and spirit than any of them are like 
Glass and Reich.  Broadly speaking, these three composers are out to 
contemplate the universe, slowly; while Glass and Reich are urban 
jitterbugs.  (Riley's "In C" may at first sound like an urban jitterbug 
work, but not taken as a whole.)

None of this is to deny Feldman's distinctive individuality, that all 
great composers have, or to claim that anybody necessarily influenced 
anybody else.

Of course Feldman denied being a minimalist.  So have Riley, Reich, 
Glass, John Adams ... all with equally good reason.  It's a broad brush 
that would call Beethoven, Weber, Brahms, and Wagner all "Romantics".  
Nevertheless it's a useful box and it will continue to be used.

Whether you like the term or not, Feldman and the canonical minimalists 
were all equally part of a startling revolution towards simplicity, of 
making minimal means serve for maximum effect, in complete opposition 
to, and against the vehement objections of, the highly complex 
expressionist orthodoxy of their day.  In that, all these composers are 
alike, as much as any group of individual geniuses can be alike, and 
really no two more alike or unalike than any other two.


#130 of 156 by md on Thu Sep 26 22:28:58 2002:

The October BBC Music mag has a review of an Abbado/BPO live 
performance CD of Mahler's 9th in which there is 40 seconds (!) of 
silence after the end of the adagio before the applause starts.  Jeez.


#131 of 156 by md on Fri Sep 27 12:23:23 2002:

[With five minutes to spare before I had to leave for the evening, I 
logged on to enter the above comment about the Abbado/BPO Mahler CD and 
there was dbratman's thought-provoking response about Feldman-as-
minimalist.  I hate it when that happens.  Anyway...  I'll enter a new 
item where we can resume this fascinating (at least to me) discussion.]


#132 of 156 by dbratman on Fri Sep 27 20:55:46 2002:

I'd like the occasional company of concertgoers with the combination of 
respect and awe evident in the description in resp:130

I find that, after a really moving and gripping performance, an 
interval of, not 40 to be sure, but maybe 5 or 10, seconds often 
elapses during which I collect myself before I'm ready to applaud.

Needless to say, many of the rest of them are well into it by then.  
Worse still are the ones who start applauding before the piece is over, 
particularly with "fake-ending" works like Sibelius's Fifth or 
Weber's "Invitation to the Dance".  Fortunately that habit is a bit on 
the decline, at least in concerts I attend.  Partly this decline is due 
to conductors being more careful to communicate via body language that 
it ain't over yet.


#133 of 156 by md on Fri Sep 27 21:59:10 2002:

Sometimes after a piece like the Mahler 9th one clap in the silence is 
all it takes to break the spell and get everyone started.  I never like 
to be the one to start the applause.  Let someone else take that 
responsibility.  On the other hand, I don't think I could've resisted 
in this case.  I'd've cracked after 20 seconds, tops.  40 seconds after 
the end of Mahler's 9th I'd've had my coat on and been out the door 
alfreakinready.  


#134 of 156 by dbratman on Sat Sep 28 00:23:05 2002:

Oh, well, if you're going to be that way <g>, if it was Mahler's Ninth 
I'd not have been at the concert in the first place.


#135 of 156 by mary on Sat Sep 28 11:34:15 2002:

Good, more room for me. ;-)


#136 of 156 by dbratman on Mon Sep 30 20:23:15 2002:

More room for Mahler, too; he sprawls all over the place.  Mahler is 
the musical equivalent of the guy on the bus who sits with his knees so 
far apart he pushes his neighbors off the program.


#137 of 156 by mary on Mon Sep 30 22:04:21 2002:

I'll take a guy who lets his legs fall wherever they may over one
who keeps them crossed, anyday.  Guys who cross their legs while seated
spend too much time contemplating which socks to wear.  

Mahler tells stories.  Long stories.  Maybe too long for most.


#138 of 156 by dbratman on Tue Oct 1 00:27:59 2002:

It's not length.  It's sprawl.  "Tells stories" may be the clue, 
because music that tells stories tends to sprawl.  (Think: opera.)  
Music that just is, like sculpture, tends not to sprawl, however long 
it may be.


#139 of 156 by md on Fri Nov 1 14:34:38 2002:

Morton Feldman: Violin and String Quartet.  Rangzen Quartet, with 
Christina Fong playing the third violin.  It's a two-CD set on the 
OgreOgress label, packaged in an attractively flimsy paperboard and 
plastic folder from which a "Free Tibet Now!" sticker fell when I first 
opened it.  ("Rangzen" evidently means "independence": 
http://www.rangzen.org/ is the web site of the International Tibet 
Independence Movement.)

Two CDs, because this one-movement piece is two hours long.  It's 
typical late Feldman: little one-, two- or three-note figures in the 
soloist against scraps of chords in the quartet, very slow and 
deliberate, pianissimo throughout.  You have to be willing to let the 
music work on your mind at its own pace.  


#140 of 156 by md on Mon Feb 3 14:24:16 2003:

Looks like Harmoney House Classical is staying open a while longer, as 
is the bigger store down Woodward from them.  I picked up three CDs at 
the classical store last week: the latest Samuel Barber CD in the Naxos 
series, a Naxos Kabalevsky CD, and a two-CD set of Robert Casadesus 
playing Ravel.  (I guess that makes it four CDs in total.)

Anyone who is old enough will remember Columbia's three-LP set of 
Casadesus performing Ravel's complete piano music.  The three LP 
slipcovers (sleeves? dust jackets? what did we call them?  I've 
forgotten already) were a familiar sight to me when I was a kid.  One 
was pink, one was yellow and one was blue.  1950-style graphic of wire-
figure seated at piano.  Huge word "ravel" in lowercase while letters.  
Anyway, I had to have this CD remastering, and I'm not disappointed.  
The sound is excellent and Casadesus is in top form.  He is joined by 
his wife Gaby on Ma Mere l'Oye and by Zino Francescatti on the Berceuse 
sur le nom de Gabriel Faure.  There is also a performance of the "Left 
Hand" concerto with Ormandy/Philadelphia which I had never heard.  Not 
a great recording of that piece (I like Boulez/Entrement), but the solo 
piano music is wonderful.  These recodings were originally released in 
1947, 1948 and 1952.

The Barber CD has the Piano Concerto, Die Natali, Medea's Meditation 
and Dance of Vengeance, and the Commando March.  Barber, who was a 
competent pianist but hardly a virtuoso, played the last movement of 
the piano concerto at half speed while he was composing it.  He didn't 
believe it when the soloist, John Browning, said it was impossible to 
play at the indicated tempo.  Barber took the score to his friend 
Vladimir Horowitz and asked him what he thought.  Horowitz pronounced 
the finale unplayable.  Barber (probably grumbling all the way) rewrote 
the worst parts of the finale to accomodate Browning.  It still sounds 
unplayable to me, despite the evidence of my ears.  I have all of this 
music on LP, even the Commando March, but the CD is still worth having.

The Kabalevsky CD has Colas Breugnon, The Comedians and Romeo & 
Juliet.  The Colas Breugnon overture is famous, but the rest of the 
piece isn't as good, imho, and isn't heard as much.  The Comedians is 
an absolutely wonderful piece of light classical music.  It's like a 
little anthology of Soviet mannerisms.  Romeo and Juliet I don't like 
as much.  The liner notes reveal that Kabalevsky was something of an 
informer and a backstabber during the Stalin era.  More evidence that 
bad people can write good music.


#141 of 156 by keesan on Tue Feb 4 03:49:54 2003:

White paper dust jacket inside colored cardboard sleeve?  Most used records
have them both facing the same direction so you can get the record in and out
faster, which of course lets the dust in.


#142 of 156 by dbratman on Tue Feb 4 17:28:29 2003:

I've heard some of Kabalevsky's symphonies and other major concert 
music.  If you haven't, you're not missing too much.  He had a minor 
gift for lighter stuff, and "The Comedians" is indeed delightful 
(better even than most of Shostakovich's work in that vein), but Kab 
seems never to have matched it.

I don't think I've heard the rest of Colas Breugnon, but the overture 
is played by itself enough to make one suspicious that the rest doesn't 
measure up.  Of the class of exceedingly obscure larger works with 
exceedingly famous extracts, the one case I know where the larger work 
is definitely as good as the extract is the "Suite algerienne" by Saint-
Saens, from which comes the "French Military March".  The rest of the 
suite is good too, but it's remarkably hard to find.


#143 of 156 by md on Tue Apr 15 17:23:33 2003:

A CD called "Silencio" featuring Gidon Kremer and the Kremerata 
Baltica.  Here is a review of it from a German web site which I ran 
through the AltaVista Babel Fish translator, which is all this piece of 
crap deserves.  I agree with the deutschesreviewer entirely, aber the 
Part as unlistenable as the rest of it I found.

Silencio 

Gidon Kremer (violin), Tatjana Grindenko (violin), Eri Klas, Kremerata 
Baltica 

Nonesuch/Warner Classics 0 75597 95822 5 
(68 min., taken up 9 & 11/99) 
---------------

I must carry out for the Philip Glass apology instaendig geschmaehten 
by me. Yes, I admit it, I him as the most boring all boring composer 
had always regarded. When hearing "company" the piece mentioned on 
these CD was also first confirmed mine for judgement irrefutably held: 
the usual cloudy-intimate Einheitsgedudel for Streicher. Then however I 
was instructed painfully, very painfully, a better one: by Vladimir 
Martynow and its work "Come in!". Flauschig sweet harmonies to hit 
terribly sentimental melodies, which refuse constantly, possibly a way -
 in addition troestlich the Celesta rings in regular intervals. Film 
scenes urge itself up: After had giving family puts Smith in the 
Christamas Eve blessedly to the peace. And then the whole is repeated 
also still painful siebenundzwanzig minutes long around other time. 
       According to introduction text this music represents the search 
for heaven in own. The ticking wood block then probably symbolizes a 
knocking on the sky gate. May with this Erbauungskitsch become blessed 
who wants, I recommends him instead of Schaefchen count as a falling 
asleep assistance. 
       One could check off these CD provided in the supplement with 
artistically guaranteed terribly valuable black-and-white photos and 
meaning meanings quotations from Kremer to Cage as typical product of 
the Meditationswelle, would contain her not also of Arvo Paerts "Tabula 
rasa". In these 1977 Paert a masterpiece completed Concerto grosso well-
behaved composition created, whose suggestive strength it later never 
reached more. Certainly, also in the second sentence of "Tabula rasa" 
nothing develops, but Paert succeeds it here with extremely economical 
means to evoke a condition from absolute timelessness to hypnotisch, 
asketisch, as it were entmaterialisiert. That is mile far distant for 
fashionable music motivated religiously by the devotion float so many. 
      , here a fascinating bringing in of large mental clarity, which 
can be considered from now on as reference, succeeds to the dedication 
carriers and interpreters of the premiere, Gidon Kremer, Tatjana 
Grindenko and the conductor Eri Klas. But I would have rather seen it 
in better neighbourhood. 


#144 of 156 by md on Tue Apr 15 17:52:28 2003:

On a lighter note, I got a deal on a CPO label CD of Roland Kluttig 
conducting the Kammerensemble Neue Musik Berlin in a performance of 
Morton Feldman's For Samuel Beckett.

A chamber piece for 23 musicians, For Samuel Beckett is one of the last 
things Feldman wrote before his untimely death in 1987.  The winds and 
strings play overlapping blocks of chords while the tuned percussion 
tinkle away arrhythmically and atonally.  It is in the same genre as 
Coptic Light, but the sound is more solid, less ethereal.  It occurred 
to me as I was listening to it that in a weird way it resembles some of 
the music of Alan Hovhaness, of all people.  Not much, but it's there.  
But it's true, as one critic put it, that Feldman was "an 
unreconstructed modernist," so if you think Hovhaness is the cat's 
pajamas you'll probably find Feldman unlistenable.  


#145 of 156 by dbratman on Fri Apr 18 00:01:59 2003:

Re the German review, anyone with that strong an antipathy to 
minimalism is useless at reviewing a CD of minimalist music, the same 
way someone who hates eggs would be useless at reviewing the quiche or 
omelet offerings at a restaurant.

"Einheitsgedudel" is a wonderful epithet, much more colorful than its 
English translation (which would be roughly "mechanical doodlings"), 
but an essay on "why I hate minimalism," using a given CD as an 
example, says nothing about whether it's good as minimalism.  My own 
reaction is that anything hated so much by someone who hated "Company" 
that much, has got to be good.  "Company", which of all Glass's works 
is surely the one least susceptible to a charge of being too long for 
its musical content, is a delicate, poised and balanced work -- and, 
ironically, it's Glass's music for a play by Samuel Beckett.

In your own voice, you note that Feldman's Beckett resembles Hovhaness 
a little, but you add that "if you think Hovhaness is the cat's pajamas 
you'll probably find Feldman unlistenable."  Well, I'm very fond of 
Hovhaness, less so of Feldman, but I hardly find Feldman unlistenable; 
and I wonder if anyone who thinks Hovhaness is the antithesis of 
modernism has heard the aleatoric string crescendos that were a regular 
feature of his work in the 1960s.  In the same weird way, they resemble 
something by Scelsi.


#146 of 156 by md on Fri Apr 18 11:47:07 2003:

I used to love Hovhaness' music more than I do now, but I still like it 
a lot.  It's been especially gratifying to see the Schwarz/Seattle 
series come out with all those pieces I never heard programmed or 
recorded.  The first thing I ever heard of his was a concert 
performance of his Mysterious Mountain symphony back in the 1950s.  It 
had a powerful effect on my young mind, partly because it proceeded 
from the same Renaissance polyphony as Vaughan Williams' Tallis 
Fantasia, which I was already smitten by.  Talk about lush!  But this 
wasn't the tedious chromaticism of Strauss or Mahler or the rest, it 
was as clean and bracing as the cold mountain water that ripples 
throught it in those celesta figures.  (When Sibelius was composing his 
6th Symphony, which starts with a limpid Palestrina-like passage, he 
said it would be "like a glass of cold spring water," as opposed to 
the "colored cocktails" being served up by Strauss at the time.)  


#147 of 156 by dbratman on Fri Apr 18 17:10:10 2003:

Michael - yes, that's the distinction I was making in my recent post in 
the Bartok topic.

I first came across Hovhaness in a purely abstract way.  The 
development of my tastes in 20th-century music consisted of a running 
battle with the musical orthodoxy of the time, which was circa 1970.  
The composers being pushed in the books on modern music I read - the 
Impressionists, the Second Vienna school, the Darmstadt school - I 
mostly detested.  And the modern composers I liked - Sibelius, 
Shostakovich, the Cheltenham school, the American "prairie" school - 
were mostly dismissed sneeringly in the books.

I had noticed that being dismissed by the academics didn't keep the 
second group from prospering in the record catalogs.  And I also 
noticed that the second group tended to write lots of symphonies, and 
the first group mostly didn't.  So I took to discovering modern 
composers by scouring the Schwann catalog for symphonists; and that, O 
nobly born, is how I discovered Hovhaness, who had already written over 
20 of them, had a long column in Schwann, and wasn't mentioned in the 
books on modern music -at all-.  With a record like that, I knew his 
music -had- to be good, even before I ever listened to any of it.


#148 of 156 by dbratman on Fri Apr 18 17:10:42 2003:

(In subsequent years I found that this technique did not always work.  
For instance, there is Richard Nanes.)


#149 of 156 by coyote on Sun Apr 20 04:26:52 2003:

I bought the "Silencio" CD when Harmony House had their massive clearance sale
last fall, and have been quite pleased with it.  I especially liked Tabula
Rasa, and in fact it might be my favorite Part work [that I've heard]. 
There's no accounting for taste, I guess.

I used to love Hovhaness's music a lot, but some of its charm faded on me
after playing one of his compositions.  When playing this piece (Lake
Samish), instead of gaining a greater understanding and respect for the
work (which is often the case when I play pieces, e.g. Beethoven 9,
Shostakovich Violin Concerto No. 1), it started to mean less to me.  I'm
not sure why, but I think it was that some of the passages were just
unnecessarily awkward, both technically and compositionally.  Granted,
this piece was unpublished and so perhaps is uncharicteristically
unpolished (I had to speak to Mrs. Hinako Hovhaness to obtain the score
and parts).  It's still a beautiful piece to listen to, but it was a very
different experience to perform it.


#150 of 156 by md on Sun Apr 20 20:42:17 2003:

Even that short-tempered German reviewer seemed to like Tabula Rasa.  
Whatever is in there, I guess I'm just not hearing it.

Hovhaness wore thin for me when I realized what a small bag of tricks 
he had.  Same thing with William Schuman.  


#151 of 156 by dbratman on Mon Apr 21 07:28:03 2003:

A dismaying number of composers have small bags of tricks.  I've even 
found Mozart, Bach, and Beethoven to be predictable at times.  The 
answer is not to spend too much time listening to any one composer.

Also, if you're expecting a composer to surprise you, what do you do 
when you listen to a work for the second time?  My pleasure in 
relistening to a work is not solely dependent on noticing new things 
about it I'd previously missed.  A work can have nothing new to say to 
me at all, and yet still be enjoyable.

As for Hovhaness, his bag may have been small, but he carried different 
things in it at different times.  More than many lesser composers, his 
work of different decades can be distinguished fairly easily on blind 
listenings.  Perhaps a sense that he had little to say may have come 
from too much listening to works of the 1980s and 90s, by which time he 
had indeed rather run short on things to say.  But his earlier music 
retains a freshness.



#152 of 156 by md on Mon Apr 21 12:28:26 2003:

I seldom get that feeling with Mozart, and never with Bach or 
Beethoven.  The one indisputably great composer I am sometimes 
surprised to find myself getting impatient with is Bartok.  "Yeah, 
yeah, Bela, we know.  Same-old same-old."  

Merely inhabiting the same "sound world" or writing in an instantly 
recognizable style isn't enough, though.  Anyone might want to hear 
something other than Beethoven after listening to a couple of 
symphonies, but that's not at all the same thing.  There has to be a 
sense of a failure of inspiration, of the composer repeating the same 
tropes and gestures -- William Schuman's scurrying prestissimo 
passages, "blue note" dissonance, kettledrum solos and massive brass 
chords, or Bartok's ebullient modal folk-dances or umpteenth little 
descending minor third figure -- that helped make some earlier work 
memorable, only without the same indispensible creative spark, and it 
has to be repeated in lots of compositions, not just a few potboilers.  
How can you listen to the opening of the Mount St. Helens symphony and 
not realize that you're listening to the opening of Mysterious 
Mountain, only without the "spark from heaven"?


#153 of 156 by dbratman on Tue Apr 22 05:31:06 2003:

With a lot of these earlier composers, I can not only "smell" the 
cadence coming a mile away, I know exactly how they're going to get 
there.

Mozart in particular engaged in some dreadful note-spinning in some of 
his lesser works.  Be careful what you call "potboilers," lest you wind 
up defining it as "those works with predictable characteristics" and 
whisk the problem away by tautology.


#154 of 156 by md on Tue Apr 22 18:58:48 2003:

Okay, I'll be careful.  ;-)


#155 of 156 by md on Thu Jul 10 16:24:14 2003:

Grabbed a buncha Naxoses over the weekend.

John Cage, Sonatas and Interludes for Prepared Piano.  I've always 
liked Cage's prepared piano music.  It's the classical counterpart 
of "novelty" music.  Lots of fun, no deep thought required.  I would 
say ignore the liner notes chatter about Zen, only "no deep thought 
required" *is* Zen.

Arnold Bax, Symphony #6, "Into the Twilight" and "Summer Music."  The 
6th symphony is very dramatic, and the two tone poems are really 
lovely.  Bax was a fine orchestrator, but I don't find his music 
awfully memorable.  

Sheila Silver, Piano Concerto (1996) and "Six preludes pour piano, 
d'apres poemes de Baudelaire" (1991).  Silver, whom I'd never heard of, 
is an American composer born in 1946.  The music on this disc is all 
very listenable.  The Piano Concerto is a strange piece of music.  
Silver is apparently going for an eastern European "Jewish" sound in 
places, but it comes out sounding a little like Bartok, a little like 
Prokofiev, a little like Leonard Bernstein.  There are also repeated 
figures that sound slightly minimalist.  Over-all, I liked it very 
much.  The six preludes are the stars of the CD, in my opinion.  Highly 
recommended.


#156 of 156 by dbratman on Wed Jul 16 04:51:04 2003:

I don't find Bax very memorable either, and have never felt I really 
grasped his music.  I couldn't tell you if I liked any of his 
symphonies better than the others, for instance.

Thanks for the recommendation of Silver.


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