Grex Classical Conference

Item 5: What about recordings?

Entered by davel on Fri Dec 6 11:55:01 1996:

Here's a place to gossip about classical recordings - those performances
presumptuously preserved for posterity.  New releases, old releases
re-released, old favorites, old turkeys ... what's good?  What should
be avoided at all costs?
156 responses total.

#1 of 156 by jradio on Sun Feb 23 20:23:01 1997:

Anyone know of a good recording of Bethoven's ninth I might get? I've never
heard the whole thing in one sitting, and I just thoght someone might know
of a recording that is worth listening to. 


#2 of 156 by krj on Thu Mar 6 17:03:08 1997:

I'm fond of Georg Solti's recording of the 9th Symphony, but then I 
seem to like Solti in general.


#3 of 156 by md on Mon Sep 29 23:33:15 1997:

Pierre Boulez conducting almost anything.  He's made some immortal
recordings of Debussy, Bartok, Stravinsky and, recently, Mahler.
I'm not even a big Mahler fan and I'm crazy about his recording
of the 6th on DGG.  He's also recorded the 5th and 7th, but I
haven't heard them yet.

Lately I've been listening to Mozart piano concertos played by
Mitsuko Uchida.  She's beyond wonderful.  Must be heard to be
believed.

I recently saw a current classical Top 40 list, and was surprised
to see Samuel Barber's Violin Concerto in 1st place.  Does anyone
know which recording or recordings might be responsible for this?
(Everyone and his brother or sister has recorded it in the past
five years, it seems, so maybe that's the answer.)  I wasn't so
much surprised to see it on the list as I was to see ahead of
Beethoven's 9th, Rachmaninov's 3rd, etc.  It even beat out
Pachelbel's Canon.


#4 of 156 by md on Mon Sep 29 23:35:06 1997:

Btw, what's the best recording of Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde?
I recently bought Simon Rattle's version, and am not impressed.


#5 of 156 by md on Sun Oct 5 18:42:00 1997:

Re Mitsuko Uchida, I recently read a review of her CD of Schubert's
Impromptus in which the reviewer predicted that in 30 years the
CD would be a collector's item.  I read another article about her
in which she was called a "priestess."  If you aren't familiar
with her, Mitsuko Uchida was born in Japam about 50 years ago,
moved to Vienna with her parents when she was 12, stayed there
to become a musician when they returned to Japan (she was 16 at
the time) and now resides in London.  She wears only black clothes
which her brother buys for her, she specializes in Haydn, Mozart,
Schubert & Beethoven, and has quite a cult following, it turns out.
Check out her recording of Mozart's 24th and 25th piano concertos,
or the Schubert Impromptus.


#6 of 156 by mary on Thu Oct 23 13:58:04 1997:

I'm hoping to use this item for a quick question.  I'd
like to know if anyone has (or knows of) a recording
of Vivaldi's Concerto in g minor (F. XII, n.4)  I'm part
of an ensemble playing this piece and although I don't
think I'm going to want the recording when it's over,
the violinist does.  She says she has been looking all
over and asking about without success.

Anyone know how to read the "F. XII, n.4" part or know
something of the piece?  It has three movements, allegro
ma cantabile, largo, and allegro molto.

(No wisecracks about Vivaldi, Michael.)  ;-)


#7 of 156 by davel on Sat Oct 25 01:30:44 1997:

No help on the recording.  We have more than one concerto in Gm, but they
don't match.  As for the F. XII, n.4 part, that's new to me (& not on any
recording or listing I've ever seen, I think), but from our Encyclopaedia
Britannica entry on Vivaldi, part of the little section at the end labeled
"Bibliography:":  "(General catalog): The complete thematic catalog of
Vivaldi, _Catalogo_numerico-tematico_delle_opere_strumentali_, was published
by the Instituto Italiano Antonio Vivaldi under the direction of Antonio Fanna
(1968)."  So I'd hazard a guess that it's #4 in volume XII of Fanna's edition,
or something like that.  Just a guess, but not quite a *wild* guess, this
time.

Of course, anyone who really *knows* anything about it is more than welcome
to jump in & explain where I'm confused!


#8 of 156 by srw on Thu Oct 30 05:22:50 1997:

Looks like a good guess. According to the Fanna listing on the net, at 
http://www.classical.net/music/composer/works/vivaldi/lists/fanna.html

 Fanna     Ryom    Pincherle  Ricordi   Type        Key          
 XII/4     103      402          23   Concerto    G minor

Perhaps this will help you locate a recording via the Ryom, Pincherle or 
Ricordi number.


#9 of 156 by mary on Thu Oct 30 14:40:42 1997:

I'd never heard of Fanna listings.  Thanks, Steve!  

In doing a little browsing thought our bookshelf, trying to find out more
about this piece, I looked up Vivaldi in _The Record Shelf Guide to
Classical and CDs and Audiocassettes_, by Jim Svejda, and found the
following (which I'm entering for Michael Delizia's amusement). 

The Four Seasons:
     With the possible exception of Pachelbel's Kanon, nothing makes me
want to start throwing things more, and I mean, literally throwing things,
than a half dozen bars of The Seasons.  I hate it with the same irrational
intensity that I reserve for peanut butter, for reasons which remain as
difficult to explain.  Like all of his other concertos, these four are
exceedingly inoffensive and exceptionally graceful.  In me, alas, they
stimulate nothing but violence, and if allowed to go on too long,
peristalsis. 

Gloria in D Major, R. 589:
     This is the sort of recording that almost makes on believe in
miracles, for, miraculously, I managed to remain conscious to the very
end. 

Svejda only reviewed these two works by this composer.  In his overview
(apology for paying so little attention to this composer) he refers to
Vivaldi as cocktail party music for yuppies and warns devotees to not
double-park their BMWs. 



#10 of 156 by davel on Thu Oct 30 23:00:49 1997:

CBC-Windsor, in an ad for one of their programs, used to feature a (fake)
announcer's voiceover on the tail end of The Seasons, saying something like
"... and we'll be back with more of Vivaldi's greatest hits right after ..."
(followed by sounds of dial moving through several other unattractive options,
followed by theme music & introduction for the program being advertised,
followed by a contented sigh).

Personally, I also like Vivaldi.  I prefer some other baroque composers, but
not because there's anything wrong with Vivaldi, for sure.  (But it was a cute
ad, & The Seasons is certainly overplayed among his repertoire.)


#11 of 156 by md on Sun Nov 2 21:00:16 1997:

Well, Vivaldi's Seasons isn't in the same league as Pachelbel's
Canon.  In the category of Music for People Who Want the Music They
Play to Sound The Way They Want People to Think They Are, we've
dumbed down five or six levels from Vivaldi to Pachelbel.  Why can't
I conceive of someone loving Pachelbel's Canon just because they
love it?  I can, of course, but the problem is, as soon as you start
in on Pachelbel's (or Vivaldi's) yuppie fans they *all* claim to
love the music just because they love it.  It's MD's Uncertainty
Principle.  CeCe, the woman who founded AOL's Classical Chat, feels
the same way I do about this.  Saying you don't like Pachelbel's Canon
is like saying you kick kittens, to these people.  I wonder why?

Btw, for a public swipe at Pachelbel's Canon, see my "CultureBrief"
on Ravel's Bolero on the AOL CultureFinder site.


#12 of 156 by rcurl on Mon Nov 3 18:28:06 1997:

Isn't the usual form of ther expression "(the lesser) isn't in the same league
as (the greater)"? You gave me a start, there.


#13 of 156 by srw on Tue Nov 4 18:46:42 1997:

The Seasons is certainly inoffensive, and certainly overplayed. I like 
the genre, though. If you are bored by the same 4 concerti, but like the 
concept, you should try the 12 Opus 3 concerti (L'Estro Armonico). They 
are for 1,2,and 4 violins (in a cycle) and also alternate (for the most 
part) major and minor keys.  Bach loved them, and transcribed one or 
two for organ. That doesn't mean you should, though. You should 
love them only if you do. They're similar, but I prefer them to opus 8 
(4 seasons). Probably that's because they are a bit more varied, but 
certainly because they are a lot less often heard.

I love the canon because I love it, but it exceeds the 4 season in 
overplayedness, so even while loving it I get bored by it. Bolero is 
nearly tied with it for being overplayed, but I'd hate that one even if 
it weren't. Sorry, I guess I kick kittens.


#14 of 156 by rcurl on Tue Nov 4 20:31:20 1997:

I think (hope...) that md meant that the *Canon* is inoffensive but overplayed
(and, in my opinion, has very little musical content compared to a concerto
- any concerto - and especially Vivaldi's). 


#15 of 156 by remmers on Wed Nov 5 02:21:00 1997:

I like the Canon. Heard an interesting performance of it out in
Wyoming a few years ago. The conductor's opinion was that
everybody play it about twice as slow as intended; the orchestra
took it at a really fast clip. It works well at the faster
tempo.


#16 of 156 by md on Wed Nov 5 04:30:06 1997:

Yes, #14 is all I meant.  Re #15, the faster the better.  I think a
good prestississimo that got the thing over with in 30 seconds
would be perfect.


#17 of 156 by remmers on Wed Nov 5 10:49:53 1997:

Foof. Oh well, guess I left myself open to that one...


#18 of 156 by mary on Wed Nov 5 14:09:27 1997:

I like canon (and fuge) type music.  It's a neat trick when done well. 
I'd bet Row-Row-Row Your Boat, done by a good acappella chorus, could
knock your socks off.  If you were cultured enough to be wearing socks,
that is. ;-) 

I guess I'm agreeing with others here that it's not Pachelbel's Canon that
is at fault but the way the piece has been overplayed by conductors who
believe there is no such thing as too much legato and who have gone on to
make it the theme song of weddings and elevators. 

My favorite experience with hearing the piece was in Chicago, 
Christmas season of 1990, in the atrium of a grand old department
store, as played by a student orchestra.  It had heart.


#19 of 156 by faile on Wed Nov 5 23:15:00 1997:

I'm darned proud to kick kittens and push litte old ladies down stairs and
whatever other horrible things some one isn't a fan of Pachabel's Cannon in
D does.

Unfortunately, my opinion of that is colored by my experiences as a
performer-- I play the bass.  Do you have any idea how boring that is?  Its
teh same two measures over and over and over until the final cadence.  eep!

But, I will say that it isn't its fault that it gets over played-- that's what
makes it so despised.  It isn't a terribly impressive peice (as far as I'm
concerned, anyway... but what do I know?), but it isn't bad.

Another high on the list of overplayed peices is, assuredly, the William Tell
Overture.  In my bass lesson the other day, my teacher was talking about it,
and he said, "if I had $50 for everytime I've played that, I could have
retired ten years ago," my response was, "if *I* had $50 for everytime I've
played it, I could retire."  


#20 of 156 by teflon on Fri Nov 14 02:35:37 1997:

the only real use I've gotton out of cannon would be as relaxation music...


#21 of 156 by md on Sat Nov 15 12:46:59 1997:

Silly question: I've been made to listen to Pachelbel's Canon many
times, but I've never actually heard a canon -- the "Row, Row, Row
Your Boat" sort of thing Mary mentions.  It sounds to me like a
passacaglia.  Did "canon" mean something else back then, whenever?


#22 of 156 by faile on Sat Nov 15 23:02:49 1997:

<jessi scurries off to the _New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians_ to
find that out>


#23 of 156 by teflon on Tue Nov 18 02:24:54 1997:

As I recall, it isn't really a true cannon, but was apparenly misnamed.  As
for what it is, I can only say that I hope faile brings us that definition
soon....


#24 of 156 by omni on Sat Nov 22 08:03:42 1997:

  I like the slowness of the Canon, esp when it's played with
deliberateness,(how's that for a word?) I hate the 4 seasons, but I love
Beethovan's Fur Elise and The Happy Farmer. My mother thinks I have all the
culture of a cup of spoiled yougurt, but I don't wear shoes and like West
Virginia.
  I also love most all of what Bach and Mozart wrote, including that
nauseating little Eine Kleine Nachmuzak. I love the Pastoral Symphony,
something I overplay in this house as well as Bach's Two-Part Inventions which
I also overplay.


#25 of 156 by md on Mon Dec 8 22:40:49 1997:

The BBC Music CD this month is the first part of Handel's Messiah,
in an arrangement made by Mozart, of all people.  Mozart updated
the orchestra and did some interesting things with the vocal parts.
He rearranged "For Unto Us" so that the four soloists do all the
heavy lifting ("For unto us a child is bohohohohohohohohohohohohohohoho-
hohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohoh-
hohohohohorn!") and the full chorus comes in only on "Wonderful
counsellor," etc.  It was so fascinating listening to the soloists
struggling that the first chorus entrance took me completely by
surprise.  It made my hair stand on end.


#26 of 156 by md on Fri Dec 12 12:07:54 1997:

There are some well-known compositions of which there exist only
one or two decent recordings.  Pieces like Stravinsky's Rite of
Spring and Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra have defeated such
conductors as Leonard Bernstein and Herbert von Karajan.  (I once
heard the Boston Symphony Orchestra under Erich Leinsdorf fall
apart during Le Sacre at a Tanglewood concert.  Leinsdorf had to
stop them during the Danse Sacrale after the strings entered on the
wrong beat, and then start them up again.)  The best recorded
performance of Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra is Fritz Reiner and
the Chicago Symphony Orchestra.  Incredibly, it's held that title
for 40 years now.  I used to think it was just me, but lately I've
read a few reviews that confirm my belief.  Pierre Boulez and the 
Cleveland Orchestra come close, but no cigar.  Boulez/Cleveland 
do excel on Le Sacre, however.


#27 of 156 by remmers on Fri Dec 12 17:54:15 1997:

(Hm, I will have to dust off my 40-year-old vinyl recording of
Reiner's rendition of Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra one of
these years and listen to it again.)


#28 of 156 by md on Sat Dec 13 04:13:59 1997:

Hey, you have that LP with the abstract scrawl on the cover?
That's an icon of my youth.  Mine is monaural, alas, so I had
to get the CD rerelease of it.


#29 of 156 by remmers on Mon Dec 15 15:11:26 1997:

I believe it is that one, and that it is stereo. I'll have to
dig it out to be sure; haven't played it for years, and a lot
of my vinyl LP's are in a hard-to-get-at place.


#30 of 156 by md on Sat Jan 10 15:06:28 1998:

I just picked up a CD of music by David Diamond, an American
composer now in his eighties.  It features the Adagio from his
recent (1991) Eleventh Symphony and his "Rounds" for string
orchestra.  The Adagio is a long Brucknerian or Mahlerian slow
movement.  It makes me want to hear the whole symphony.  "Rounds"
is absolutely wonderful.  Diamond composed it at the end of WWII
on a commission from Dmitri Mitropoulos, who said he needed "something
happy."  "Rounds" is a sort of cross between Aaron Copland and Roy
Harris, but with a wicked intellectual twinkle in its eye that you 
rarely get in either of those composers' music.  Definitely worth
trying out.  Now I have to start filling in my Diamond recordings,
which have been limited to a couple of chamber pieces.


#31 of 156 by md on Sat Jan 31 01:55:54 1998:

Albany Records has a new CD of re-releases of three old monaural 
recordings issued by Columbia in the early 1950s: Walter Piston's 
Symphony No. 4, Roy Harris's Symphony No. 7, and William Schuman's 
Symphony No. 6, all by Eugene Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra.  

This is one of the few mono CDs I've acquired.  (The other ones are
along the lines of  Duke Ellington favorites from the 1940s, Stan 
Kenton's "Cuban Fire," and so on.).  I would much rather have spiffy new 
digital recordings of these three symphonies, but the sad truth is that 
this is the only CD of any of them currently available.  As far as I can 
tell these were the only recordings of them ever made.  If that's the 
case, then between 1960 at the latest, and 1997 when this CD was 
released, you could not get this music in any format.

So what was lost?  Well, the Piston and Harris symphonies are both 
lovely.  Piston's 4th is an easygoing work, very tuneful and memorable. 
It sounds lightweight to my ears, but no more so than, say, 
Mendelssohn's "Italian" symphony, and for the same reasons.  Harris's 
7th is a strange seductive work.  There's something sultry, almost 
tropical, about the way it opens.  There are irregular dance-like 
rhythms later on, and the music is violent in some places and almost 
childlike in others, but by that time you've been completely hypnotized 
and are ready to believe anything Harris tells you.

But William Schuman's 6th is the star of this show.  It consists of a 
single 30-minute-long movement in which Schuman takes a simple theme and 
repeats it in various harmonic, rhythmic and orchestral guises.  (The 
liner notes refer to the symphony as a "passacaglia," but I'm not sure 
it's exactly that.)  The tension of the slower sections is periodically 
shattered by up-tempo passages featuring big-band-like ensemble playing 
and jazzy percussion outbursts, complete with rim shots.  The symphony 
ends on a note of brooding desolation.  After the premiere in 1951, one 
critic wrote that Schuman's 6th "might well be called a requiem for the 
twentieth century...grim music, terrifying in its psychological 
implications, relentless as a Greek tragedy, and irresistibly logical in 
its development."  Eugene Ormandy called the symphony "one of the most 
wonderful and difficult I have ever played."  The absence of this 
masterpiece from the catalogues for nearly 40 years has always puzzled
me.  Maybe someone will record it again now?


#32 of 156 by md on Sat Jan 31 02:00:35 1998:

The CD in the current BBC Music magazine is titled "Modern Classics," 
but it features only two actual classics: Stravinsky's Les noces and 
Barber's Adagio for Strings.  

The Barber Adagio is given a surprisingly out-of-tune performance by 
Eugene Ormandy and what sounds like fifteen or twenty of the 
Philadelphia Orchestra's strings.  It's interesting how the performance 
tradition of the Adagio has changed over the years.  It's a little like 
Madonna's journey from The Material Girl to The Diva.  This recording is 
in the older tradition and valuable if only for that reason -- although 
Arturo Toscanini, Vladimir Golschmann and Howard Hanson, to name only 
three, all did it better. 

The version of Les noces here is the one for solo singers, chorus, 
percussion, and four pianos.  What makes this CD valuable is that it's 
the legendary 1959 recording with Igor Stravinsky conducting, and the 
four pianos played by -- get this -- Aaron Copland, Samuel Barber, Lukas 
Foss and Roger Sessions.  I've seen snapshots of Stravinsky posing in 
the studio with the four American composers, but I've never heard the 
recording.  Alas, it's kind of disappointing.  This is due possibly to 
faulty engineering.  The voice solos are strident and the pianos and 
percussion are all but inaudible in places.  There was a wonderful 
definitive Les noces LP produced a few years later by Stravinsky/Craft 
featuring two or three different versions, including the one for 
cimbaloms rather than pianos, which I like best.  I think it also had 
the Symphonies of Wind Instruments.  Highly recommended if you can find 
it.

There are two other listenable tracks on the CD: The "Maskarade" 
Overture by Carl Nielsen and a lushly colorful piece for baritone and 
orchestra called Les espaces du sommeil by Witold Lutoslawski.  Les 
espaces deserves to become a modern classic if it isn't already.  I 
can't say the same for the remaining music on the CD: two negligible 
hymns by John Tavener; a movement from a work called "Glasshole," I 
believe, by minimalist merdemeister Philip Glass; and an embarrassing 
item called "Song of Peace" from "Symphony 1997: Heaven Earth Mankind" 
composed for the Beijing takeover of Hong Kong last year by a composer 
named Tan Dun -- which is like being named "Blanche White" or "Melanie 
Black," although who knows (or cares, after listening to this) what it 
means in Chinese?


#33 of 156 by md on Thu Mar 26 11:41:50 1998:

I just picked up the new CD of Pierre Boulez conducting the
Chicago Symphony Orchestra in Mahler's 9th symphony.  The last
time I heard this peice all the way through was at a Bernstein/NYPhil
concert 30 years ago.  It bored me to death with its schmaltzy
obviousness and its "ooga-booga!" pseudo-scariness in the scherzo,
rather like a tedious not-too-bright uncle who likes to tell
ghost stories you listen to because you're polite.  But, as always
with Mahler, the conductors add more scmaltz than the composer 
ever put there.  If anyone can make me appreciate this music (which 
is said to be one of the towering masterpieces of late romantic
symphonic music) it's Pierre Boulez.  I haven't gone past the
first two movements yet, but so far so good.  It isn't quite as
gripping as the 6th symphony, which is still my favorite, but it's
quite beautiful in places.  The sound on this DG CD is awesome.


#34 of 156 by mary on Thu Mar 26 14:58:50 1998:

We've discussed this piece before so my comments are going
around for about third time here, at least.  Mahler's Ninth
is a very personal piece.  I've enjoyed listening to it
in concert but where it works best is on headphones, in the
dark, all the way through (only breaking for the disk swap).
Once every few years is about right.  I pull it out for when
my heart needs to (again) understand death.

Of course, I'm a sucker for see-it-coming-miles-away ghost
stories too.


#35 of 156 by md on Thu Mar 26 22:37:40 1998:

DG puts the whole thing on one disk.  I don't know if that
means Boulez's tempi are fast or what.  The timings are:

I.   29'17
II.  16'03
III. 12'38
IV.  21'25

Total performance lasts 79 minutes and 46 seconds.  I'm still
slowly working my way through it.  


#36 of 156 by mary on Fri Mar 27 01:09:20 1998:

I have the 1982 Berlin Philharmonic, at the Berlin Festival,
Karajan conducting.

I:  28'10
II: 16'38
III:12'45
IV: 26'49

I have to get up and change disks.  How rude.


#37 of 156 by md on Fri Mar 27 11:16:17 1998:

Karajan lingers just a bit over the adagio, doesn't he?  Hmmm...
Boulez is such a my-way-or-the-highway sort of guy, I can't believe
he would speed up the tempi just to cram the whole thing onto one
disk.  Who knows, though?

The current BBC Music magazine is devoted to conductors.  Boulez is
mentioned only briefly.  I doubt if he's much to the editors' tastes.
They do recommend his recording of Bartok's Wooden Prince and
Cantata Profana as one of the top 50.  Karajan fares somewhat better,
at least in terms of words devoted to him, but one of the articles
is rather snide, claiming that Karajan "anesthetized" music in his
later performances and recordings.  Part of their rancor toward him
seems to proceed from the fact that he was an unapologetic Nazi before
and during the war.  Anyway, my impression of Karajan is that he was
much more literal and much less histrionic with his music than many
people think.  In other words, despite his jet-setting glamor-boy
image, he was closer to someone like Pierre Boulez than to Bernstein.
He respected the music too much to use the podium as a dance floor.

[In this same issue, Boulez is quoted as saying he would never
conduct Brahms because he felt Brahms was "bourgeois and complacent."
I know exactly what he means, but I think those characteristics are
virtues.  Good topic for an item, if I thought anyone in the world
but me was interested.]


#38 of 156 by mary on Sat Mar 28 03:26:51 1998:

I'm interested.  Not sure I'd have anything to add.  But
I'm interested.

Really.


#39 of 156 by srw on Mon Apr 6 17:24:02 1998:

Same here.


#40 of 156 by md on Mon May 4 11:00:05 1998:

Sony has rereleased Berstein's recordings of William Schuman's
3rd, 5th and 8th symphonies.  The 5th is called "String Symphony."
This is the earlier recording of the 3rd, not the one you see
coupled with Roy Harris's 3rd.  Despite the analog sound, I like
it better.  Much more dynamic, brings out the youthful energy of
the piece.


#41 of 156 by md on Tue May 25 20:24:36 1999:

In addition to the 5th, 6th, 7th and 9th symphonies
of Mahler, Pierre Boulez has now recorded the 1st.
I've always liked the 1st, especially the laendler in
the 2nd movement.  It's so hearty and outdoorsy.
Boulez takes it on the fast side, which he makes
up for with a slow third movement.  This music is
not what I think of when I think of Boulez, but he does
a nice job with it.


#42 of 156 by md on Fri Sep 17 21:40:46 1999:

I kept seeing this CD at Harmony House of several
different arrangements of Barber's Adagio for
Strings: string orchestra; string quartet; full
chorus (as a setting of the Agnus Dei); flute and
synthesizer; brass choir; massed clarinets; chamber
orchestra; organ.  I never bought it, because I have 
all three of Barber's own versions (string quartet, 
string orchestra, Agnus Dei), and the others sounded
kind of silly.  Although I *was* curious what they
sounded like.  Not *that* curious, but, well, curious.
So, with a petulant snarl, I pulled it out of the 
CD bin at Harmony House yesterday and bought it, finally.

Barber's Adagio for Strings, in case you haven't heard 
it, is a slow piece consisting of drawn-out cadences and 
long seamless melodic lines.  So, the flute, brass and 
clarinet versions are all exercises in how long you can 
blow into a wind instrument and not take a breath before 
you turn purple and your lungs implode and you fall 
writhing to the floor.  The solutions range from editing 
the breaths out electronically, to playing certain sections 
really fast, to playing the whole thing really fast.  They 
are all extremely funny.


#43 of 156 by coyote on Sat Sep 18 02:13:33 1999:

The fact that a CD of that nature has been produced it quite depressing to
me... I love Barber's Adagio for Strings, but there is such a thing as
overkill.  If you listen to a piece of music over and over like that, it will
eventually lose its power.  I own the string orchestra version and the Agnus
Dei version, and have heard the brass choir version on the radio, and so far
the string orchestra version is still by far my favorite.


#44 of 156 by dbratman on Wed Sep 22 17:42:36 1999:

Ah, but have you seen the similar record produced of different 
arrangements of Pachelbel's Canon?  (The title, appropriately, is 
"Pachelbel's Greatest Hit".)  That was pretty amazing in its own right, 
especially the pop-song version with Cleo Laine.


#45 of 156 by md on Wed Sep 22 17:57:56 1999:

Long before the pop version was reached, I would've
run twin power drills into my ears.


#46 of 156 by mary on Wed Sep 22 22:36:31 1999:

(John just came into my study to see what had me roaring
 with laughter.)


#47 of 156 by remmers on Thu Sep 23 16:11:41 1999:

I heard Cleo Laine's pop-song version of "Pachelbel's Canon"
once.  Ed Parmentier, my erstwhile harpsichord teacher, played
it for me once.  We both thought it was pretty good.  Didn't
hear anything else on the album, though.


#48 of 156 by coyote on Fri Sep 24 22:19:04 1999:

I haven't heard that... but I have heard a 40 minute synthesized version on
one of those 'classical for relaxation' type albums.  I couldn't have thought
of a better way to convince somebody that classical music is boring.



#49 of 156 by dbratman on Mon Sep 27 21:57:24 1999:

There is no sure way to convince people that classical music is 
boring.  Jim Svejda, the frank-spoken radio critic, has had a long-
running campaign to convince people that minimalism is boring.  The 
fact that thousands, maybe millions, of people who'd never otherwise 
have listened to classical just love Gorecki's Third and Philip Glass 
merely infuriates him.

For my part, the first time I heard Yo-Yo Ma, I thought, "This guy is 
the most stultifyingly boring performer I've ever heard.  He could kill 
off the classical revival all by himself."  He still makes me feel that 
way, even though nobody seems to share that opinion.


#50 of 156 by omni on Tue Sep 28 05:47:35 1999:

  It's not the performer as it is the particular music being presented. I have
heard some awfully dreadful Wagner, that I fall asleep to about 5 minutes into
the CD. I don't care if The Who is playing it at 160 db it is still boring.

  I more of a Mozart/Bach/Rimsky-Korsakov fan, and I'm of the opinion that
there is no boring way to play "Flight of the Bumblebee" That is, unless
you're my neighbor. Then it sounds more like "Flight of the Housefly"



#51 of 156 by oddie on Thu Sep 30 04:40:58 1999:

I don't think anybody who has heard Steve Reich's _Tehillim_ (a setting of
four psalms in the original Hebrew) could think minimalism boring...
(However, the program notes to it do say that "Steve Reich has been moving
away from the minimalist aesthetic for some time, but with this piece the
shift becomes unmistakable." or something close to that.)


#52 of 156 by dbratman on Thu Sep 30 22:10:47 1999:

Jonathan, that parenthetical comment brings up the problem of the 
definition of "minimalism".  The stuff the term was originally coined to 
refer to is exceedingly long-breathed and motionless, and while a rare 
few find it entrancing, to most people it is very boring indeed.  
Neither Reich nor Glass writes like that now, but none of the stuff 
they're famous for is like that.  When most people talk about 
minimalism, they mean what Reich and Glass have been writing for the 
last 25 years, including _Tehillim_, and that's the sort of stuff Sveja 
is referring to.  To his credit, he doesn't usually say "minimalism".  
By "the minimalist aesthetic", your program note writer means strict 
minimalism.

Dr. Teeth, it can be either the music or the performer.  I've heard 
deservedly forgotten works presented well, with passion and conviction. 
I've also heard terribly boring performances of Mozart. (Mozart is 
harder to play well than one might think.)


#53 of 156 by omni on Fri Oct 1 07:33:42 1999:

  Right, I know what you mean. I have a version of Pachelbel's Canon which
is simply performed way way too fast, and it sounds shitty, well, shittier
than it usually is. Then again, there is the version I have on a cheapo record
that is really nice. Go figure.

  The point I was trying to make is that in most cases, you just cannot make
a silk purse out of a sow's ear.


#54 of 156 by dbratman on Wed Oct 6 18:12:29 1999:

That's true, but one man's sow may be another man's silkworm.


#55 of 156 by md on Thu Jan 20 19:35:44 2000:

Just picked up the CD with the premiere recordings
of Elliott Carter's Clarinet Concerto and "Symphonia:
sum fluxae pretium spei."  The latter is a 45-minute
piece in 3 movements based on a poem called "Bulla"
("The Bubble") written in Latin by 17th c Brit poet 
Richard Crashaw.  It is Carter's longest work, and,
after his Concerto for Orchestra and Symphony of
Three Orchestras, his greatest orchestral work.  If
you're a Carter fan, you'll understand what I mean
when I say that it has the ability to surprise you
with every single note -- you never would've predicted
what comes next -- and yet, after you've heard it, it
seems inevitable, as if Carter couldn't've done it 
any other way.  How he does that has been the subject
of much debate and analysis, but I tink it just comes
down to genius.  Carter was 88 years old when he
completed these two works, and, as far as I know, is
alive and well and still composing at the age of 91.  
An absolutely amazing guy.


#56 of 156 by coyote on Sun Mar 12 05:00:50 2000:

Sounds very interesting.  I think I'll look to see if the library has any of
his works.


#57 of 156 by md on Sun Apr 2 15:31:39 2000:

An EMI CD rerelease of some Vaughan Wiliams music:
An Oxford Elegy; Sancta Civitas; Flos Campi; and
Whitsuntide Hymn.  

Flos Campi is Vaughan Williams in full-blown 
pantheist/mystical mode.  It's almost on a par with
the Pastoral Symphony and the Fantasia on a Theme 
by Thomas Tallis.  I've always heard the influence
of Ravel in this piece.  RVW had been studying with
him, and was obviously under the spell of Daphnis
and Chloe when he wrote Flos Campi.  (Wordless choir,
wind-blowing-in-the-trees sort of thing.)  It isn't
easy to get your ears around: you've just sunk into 
the disorientingly dense bitonal opening, thinking 
my aren't we modern, when that fruity choir comes in.  
Gustav Holst, who was a greatfriend and supporter
of RVW, claimed he never did "get" Flos Campi.  Imho,
this is the one piece where RVW comes completely
unbuttoned.  But it's definitely worth a listen.

An Oxford Elegy is one of my all-time favorite RVW
pieces.  It's for orchestra, choir and speaker.  The
speaker reads lines from Matthew Arnold's poems "Thyrsis"
and "The Scholar-Gypsy," and the choir sometimes sings
the words, sometimes vocalises.  The music is absolutely
ravishing.  The only CD of this piece up until now has
been one by a horrible American ensemble.  This new CD
is like a giant sigh of relief for me, since I don't
have to dust off my old LP of this performance anymore.

Sancta Civitas is a major work for chorus and orchestra.
Along with Flos Campi, it was the most "modern" of RVW's
compositions until the 4th symphony.  Tremendous music
on religious themes from a "Christian agnostic."


#58 of 156 by dbratman on Wed Apr 5 17:30:56 2000:

Thanks for the review, Michael: I saw this disk in the store and was 
thinking about it.  I'd never heard of the Oxford Elegy before.


#59 of 156 by coyote on Sat Apr 8 21:59:47 2000:

Re 56:
The library did not have that new recording, so I checked out one that had
the Holiday Overture, the Suite from Pocahontas, and Syringa on it.  I had
certain preconceptions about what it was going to sound like from the
description of Carter's music in #55, but it didn't match my
preconceptions, so I was a little disappointed.  I should probably listen
to it again now that I'm not expecting any particular sound, to give it a
fair chance.


#60 of 156 by md on Sun Apr 9 12:31:44 2000:

I think those are all older pieces (except maybe
Syringa?).  Carter's style changed radically in
the late 1940s/early 1950s.


#61 of 156 by coyote on Mon Apr 17 21:12:11 2000:

Right, Syringa is from sometime during the 70s.  Are there any pieces in
particular that you'd recommend?  I'll make another pilgramage to the library
to see if they have any of them.


#62 of 156 by md on Mon Apr 17 23:19:19 2000:

I would recommend Carter's Concerto for Orchestra,
composed in the late 1960s.  One British composer has 
asserted that it occupies the same position with respect 
to his generation of composers that Stravinsky's Rite of 
Spring occupied for Carter's generation.  That is, it is 
the aesthetic touchstone against which all one's efforts 
are measured.  I realize that is a huge burden to place on 
this one composition, but I believe the Concerto for 
Orchestra supports it.  (I'm always reluctant to get anyone 
started on Carter's music, because unlike Barber or Copland, 
who were Carter's near-contemporaries, Carter's music 
doesn't have any popular, much less populist, appeal.  Only 
a snob or a phony could love it, or pretend to love it. 
Well, I really honestly truly do love it.  Really.  I swear.
I don't know what else to say.)


#63 of 156 by md on Sat May 13 14:31:45 2000:

Picked up a CD rerelease of Ernest Bloch's two
Concerti Grossi and the rhapsody for cello and
orchestra called "Schelomo," all conducted by
Howard Hanson on Mercury.  For good measure, I also 
bought a brand-new CD of Bloch's Avodat Hakodesh
performed by a South African orchestra & chorus.

The Concerto Grosso #1 was the first Bloch music I 
ever heard.  I liked it immediately, as I suspect 
everyone does on first hearing this engaging neo-
baroque piece.  The second Concerto Grosso and Schelomo 
are both equally listenable, but CG #1 rules.  

Bloch was a Swiss composer who came to the USA in the 
late 1930s because he was Jewish and feared for his life.
The Jewish element in his music is sometimes criticised
as being overly colorful and superficial.  That may or 
may not be.  All I know is that I practically wore out my 
LP of Leonard Berstein conducting the Avodat Hakodesh, 
which is the Jewish morning service.  This new recording 
isn't as good, but the haunting beauty is still mostly
there.  It starts out a tiny bit like Brahms' Deutches
Requiem, but it is soon suffused with a morning radiance
that stays with it until the final section, where the
morning changes to mourning for the Kaddish.  The tzur
yisroel still give me goosebumps.  The omein at the
end of the yih'yu still brings tears to my eyes.  Now I
have to see if the Bernstein version has been released
on CD yet.


#64 of 156 by md on Sat May 13 14:41:13 2000:

[Btw, in this recording of Avodat Hakodesh, the
word "adoshem" replaces "adonai."  I know that 
"adonai" (lord) or "hashem" (the name) are spoken
when the word YHVH appears in Jewish prayers and 
scripture, but "adoshem" is new to me.  It's kind
of jarring to hear "shema yisrael, adoshem elohenu,
adoshem echad."  If anyone can explain, please do.]


#65 of 156 by md on Sat May 13 15:18:04 2000:

My apologies for this drift, but I think I might've 
found the answer on http://www.jewfaq/com/

"Although the prohibition on pronunciation applies only 
to the four-letter Name [ie, YHVH], Jews customarily do 
not pronounce any of God's many Names except in prayer or 
study. The usual practice is to substitute letters or 
syllables, so that Adonai becomes Adoshem . . ."  

Bloch's Avodat Hakodesh is not strictly either prayer or 
study.  It's a musical composition that uses the words of 
the Jewish service as text.  Therefore, adoshem rather than 
adonai.  I realize it isn't wise even for a Jew to try and 
second-guess the rabbinical authorities, much less for a 
gentile to do so, but that's my theory.


#66 of 156 by md on Sat May 13 15:24:46 2000:

Make that http://www.jewfaq.org/.  Sorry.


#67 of 156 by dbratman on Wed May 17 17:05:52 2000:

I am very fond of Bloch's Concerto Grosso No. 1, and wish he'd written 
more like it.  The other work of his I like most is the Piano Quintet, 
which dates from around the same period.  His echt-Jewish music, like 
the famous Schelomo and the above-mentioned Avodet Hakodesh, is of less 
appeal to me.

The day that it becomes forbidden for Jews to argue with rabbinical 
authority is the day I turn in my Jewish union card.  (No, there isn't 
really such a thing as a Jewish union card.)  Jews are already forbidden 
to say God's real Name (the Tetragrammaton, the one spelled YHWH in 
Roman characters); it seems to me silly the way some observant Jews go 
into contortions to avoid saying the substitutes which aren't even His 
Name, and "G-d", which they often write, looks like a dirty word (a la 
"s-x" or "f--k").  God wasn't impressed when Adam and Eve tried to hide 
themselves under fig leaves; why should he be impressed by a dash?

But that's my opinion.  Have two Jews: get three opinions.


#68 of 156 by coyote on Wed Jun 7 02:43:51 2000:

Re way back there:
I was unsuccessful in finding a recording of Carter's Concerto for Orchestra.
Oh, well.  I've got a large stack of music around here right now that I
haven't listened to yet anyways, before I go looking for new stuff.


#69 of 156 by oddie on Wed Jun 21 05:05:26 2000:

I recently got a new recording of Steve Reich's _Music for 18 Musicians_,
written and originally recorded in 1976. I had previously heard only Reich's
later work including _Tehillim_, _New York Counterpoint_, and _City Life_,
so this piece was a bit more minimalist and took me a bit longer to get into.
I actually found it rather boring the first time I listened to it (it is
written in 14 sections, but they don't have as distinct characters as the
4 movements of _Tehillim_ or the 5 of _City Life_), but now I find it 
simply gorgeous...



#70 of 156 by md on Wed Jun 21 12:41:39 2000:

I always liked Vladimir Ashkenazy's performance of
Prokofiev's 3rd piano concerto, so I picked up the
2-cd set of Ashkenazy playing all five Prokofiev
piano concertos, Andre Previn conducting.  Prokofiev
was kind of a lightweight, imho, but still plenty
enjoyable.  Ashkenazy is amazing in these performances.


#71 of 156 by md on Wed Feb 28 18:17:04 2001:

I'm not a real Ashkenazy fan, but for some reason when I recently felt 
like getting some CD collections of Beethoven's piano sonatas and 
Sibelius's symphonies, I ended up with Ashkenazy playing the Beethoven 
and conducting the Sibelius.  The CD sonata collection conatins 
the "named" sonatas: Waldstein, Pathetique, Pastoral, Moonlight, Les 
Adieux, etc.  The sound is way superior to my old Alfred Brendel LP 
set, but the playing isn't as good.  I hear something a little vulgar 
and overdone in Ashkenazy sometimes.  It comes close to ruining the 
Waldstein.  It works better on the Sibelius symphonies.  In fact, he 
reins it in to just the right degree on the 6th, where the endings of 
the first and second movements need to sound as if a beautiful woman 
has quietly but unexpectedly walked out of the room.  

I've been working my way through an 8-CD set of Adrian Boult conducting 
Vaughan Williams' 9 symphonies and selected other orchestral music.  
Boult is still unsurpassed.  His recording of the pretentiously named 
and very uneven ballet score "Job: A Masque for Dancing" brings out the 
best in it, which is very nearly the best RVW ever did.  The cloud of 
dissonance that the first theme dissolves into leaves me dizzy.


#72 of 156 by dbratman on Wed Feb 28 22:20:02 2001:

I dislike Ashkenazy as a conductor, because he hums very loudly.  Can't 
fault his interpretations, though.

Boult is certainly the definitive RVW conductor, though I am very fond 
of Previn's rendition of the Sea Symphony, which treats the voices very 
much as if they were instruments.  The Sea Symphony has always 
impressed me because it makes Whitman's poetry sound lyrical, which I 
would have thought was impossible.  Job is a masterpiece of its kind: 
perhaps it comes across as uneven because, unlike a symphony, a ballet 
is not intended to work as a single entity at a profound level.  I am 
unwure what you consider pretentious about its name.  It's called "Job" 
because it's about him: what's pretentious about that?  Surely you 
don't consider "A Masque for Dancing" to be pretentious: that's about 
as modest a description of a ballet as ever coined.


#73 of 156 by md on Thu Mar 1 17:35:26 2001:

Okay I take it back.


#74 of 156 by md on Wed Oct 24 02:41:50 2001:

With the new BBC Music mag comes a CD called "Baltic Voyage," works by 
Estonian composers Villem Kapp, Arvo Part and Eduard Tubin, conducted 
by Neeme, Paavo and Kristjan Jarvi, respectively.  (DSO conductor Neeme 
Jarvi and his two sons.)  

I don't know what I expected, but it wasn't this.  The symphonies by 
Kapp and Tubin and the short "Cantus in Memory of Benjamin Britten" by 
Part all sound like movie music.  Very professional movie music, in a 
Howard Hansonish sort of way, in the case of Kapp and Tubin, but movie 
music nonetheless.  (The Part piece sounds sort of minimalist, sort of 
Goreckioid.  Seven minutes of orchestra without music.)  None of these 
works is even as daring as, say, Soviet or American populist 
modernism.  I am attracted enough to this kind of music to want to 
listen to more of it.  Has anyone else here (if there *is* anyone else 
here) heard any music by these composers?


#75 of 156 by gelinas on Wed Oct 24 02:51:16 2001:

I'm curious about the term "movie music."  Do you mean disjoint?  "Odd"
dynamic changes?  Some combination of these things?


#76 of 156 by md on Wed Oct 24 10:30:48 2001:

Think Max Steiner, Miklos Rosza, John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith.  Music 
you can enjoy the first time your hear it, but it leaves you wondering 
how substantial it was.  Modal Mahler.  Howard Hanson sober.  Samuel 
Barber drunk.


#77 of 156 by gelinas on Wed Oct 24 13:06:00 2001:

The only name I recognise is Johnny's.  His music doesn't seem less
"substantial" to me than most others I listen to.  Then again, I _do_ like
theatre music:  Wagner, Rossini, and Handel, for instance.

(I wish I could remember which movie it was that credited "Johnny Williams"
for the musice; a '60s western is all that comes to mind.)


#78 of 156 by orinoco on Thu Oct 25 03:02:08 2001:

<vows to use the word "goreckioid" in conversation someday>


#79 of 156 by md on Thu Oct 25 11:41:35 2001:

Pronounced gor-RET-skee-oyd, you know.


#80 of 156 by orinoco on Fri Oct 26 15:43:10 2001:

Duly noted.


#81 of 156 by dbratman on Thu Nov 1 00:27:08 2001:

It doesn't sound like movie music.  Movie music sounds like it, if you 
get the difference.

I've got this CD also, and I already knew all the composers on it.

Arvo Pärt's "Cantus" is the most (rightly) distinguished piece of 
Eastern European mystical minimalism, even more than Gorecki's 3rd 
Symphony, which it does resemble.  To call it "orchestra without music" 
is unfair: you're not listening to it properly.  Rather than beguiling 
you with catchy tunes (which is what movie music does) or telling a 
story, its aim is to create a sound space, almost like a physical space 
in which the sound exists.  If that's not too goopy a way of putting 
it.  It succeeds brilliantly, and for one thing it's a lot shorter than 
most such works, and a lot more complex in terms of what's going on 
harmonically.

The other works are much less renowned.

Villem Kapp is a deservedly obscure composer.  What you're hearing when 
you listen to this work is A Typical Soviet Symphony.  Believe me, I've 
heard dozens of 'em, and they all sound like that.  Like Shostakovich 
without the genius.

Eduard Tubin is a more difficult case.  He and George Lloyd are the two 
late 20C symphonists most beloved of most symphony-collecting record 
collectors, but I don't quite get it.  Their music is pleasant but they 
just don't strike me as that good.  I'd rather listen to Larsen or 
Zwilich.


#82 of 156 by md on Thu Nov 1 15:00:35 2001:

"Sound space" music doesn't scare me, although I don't know how fond a 
composer would be of the term.  Also, I think it's out of fashion now.  
A critic recently complained about how tempting it is for certain 
conductors to "ambientize" Morton Feldman's music.  

Speaking of whom, several months ago I picked up a CD of Michael Tilson 
Thomas conducting three Feldman works, Piano and Orchetsra, Cello and 
Orchestra, and Coptic Light.  I enjoy all three, but Coptic Light 
towers above the other two, imho.  It's utterly, serenely, beautiful.  
Inexplicably beautiful, as if Feldman had discovered a new way to make 
beauty.  One thing about Feldman's music, and Coptic Light in 
particular, is that it spoils other music for me.  Around the same time 
I bought the Feldman CD I also bought a Toru Takemitsu CD, including 
the exquisite From Me Flows What You Call Time.  If I listen to it 
right after listening to Feldman it sounds vulgar and obvious, which in 
fact is about the last thing it really is.  


#83 of 156 by md on Thu Nov 1 18:59:55 2001:

A BBC Music feature article about trendy young Brit composer Thomas 
Ades sent to me Harmony House to pick up a CD of his music.  Asyla, 
Concerto Conciso, a couple of others.  Silly, gimmicky, not very good.  
I'm still tempted, however, to buy the recording of his opera Powder 
Her Face, which is based on a real-life 1950s scandal involving the 
oversexed wife of a Scottish peer.  The soprano sings -- or rather 
hums -- her big aria wearing only a string of pearls, on her knees, 
with her back to the audience, while giving the tenor a blowjob.  Now, 
why didn't Puccini think of that?


#84 of 156 by remmers on Thu Nov 1 20:30:22 2001:

He did, many times, but kept it to himself.


#85 of 156 by dbratman on Thu Nov 1 23:30:44 2001:

Ambient, soundscape, and minimalism are not quite the same thing, and 
the major difference is how you're supposed to listen to them.

Minimalism, whether fast New York minimalism or contemplative Eastern 
European minimalism (Feldman, though from New York, was closer to the 
Eastern Europeans in style), is more pattern-oriented than soundscape.  
Listen to the patterns build up and change.  Just don't expect the 
music to be directive the way most Western concert music is.

"Ambient" is the word used to describe all musics of this sort when you 
aren't really listening to them.


#86 of 156 by md on Fri Nov 2 11:37:38 2001:

I'm not very good with "schools" and "movements" in the arts.


#87 of 156 by md on Fri Nov 2 11:57:52 2001:

[But I don't think the word "minimalism" works with Feldman's music.  
He predated minimalism by 15 years or so, and although he continued to 
compose during the "minimalist" heyday his music never sounded like 
anything other than Morton Feldman.  I don't think you could say even 
that the minimalists were influenced by *him*.  Feldman himself is said 
to have claimed abstract expressionist painters like Mark Rothko as his 
primary influences.  On the other hand, I've heard younger listeners 
who know nothing of all this history declare Feldman "minimalist" on 
first hearing, so maybe in some sense he is.]


#88 of 156 by dbratman on Sat Nov 3 04:56:39 2001:

"Minimalism" doesn't mean the same thing as "part of the Minimalist 
movement".  NOBODY was part of the minimalist movement: even Philip 
Glass and Steve Reich will deny it.  What they mean is, no composer 
worth listening to ever sat down and said, "Now I will compose 
Minimalist music."  They wrote what they wanted to write, 
and "minimalism" is a useful word to describe various works that have a 
lot in common.  If that includes Feldman's, and it does, 
then "minimalist" he is.

Of course his work never sounds like anything other than Feldman's.  
And Glass's sounds like Glass, and Reich's like Reich, and Gorecki's 
like Gorecki.  I could sort out a pile of unlabeled recordings of works 
by the four of them with no trouble whatever.  Nevertheless they do 
have certain striking things in common which set them apart from most 
other composers, and "minimalism" is the word used to describe that.


#89 of 156 by md on Sat Nov 3 12:56:37 2001:

It's true, even the composers everyone thinks of as "minimalist" not 
only deny that they are, but also reject the very term.  So do I.  And 
if Steve Reich doesn't want that particular can tied to his tail, it 
most definitely shouldn't be tied to Feldman's.  You need to find some 
other way to sound intelligent when you talk about Feldman's music.  ;-)


#90 of 156 by dbratman on Sun Nov 4 07:20:07 2001:

I'm not so sure about Reich, but Glass draws a sensible distinction 
which I am trying to draw in the above, between the minimalist movement 
and music which happens to be minimalist, the latter of which he agrees 
that his music is.  (Leaving aside another layer of complexity, which 
is that minimalism in the original sense is something he ceased 
composing around 1975.)

I refuse to play cute little word games, in which we search for a 
transparent euphemism for "minimalist" which means "minimalist" but 
not "member of the minimalist movement".  Minimalist is a standard term 
in the music dictionaries by now, it has a specific technical meaning 
which fits Feldman's music, and it's too late to complain about that, 
as Glass has recognized.  You might as well complain about "classical" 
and "romantic", both of which are equally inaccurate - and some people 
do.  But make up your mind, Michael, do you want to talk about music, 
or do you want to waste time fighting quixotically against established 
standard terminology?


#91 of 156 by md on Sun Nov 4 14:47:40 2001:

I've been discussing categories, the pigeonholes some people like to 
try and stuff innocent composers like Feldman into.  I personally can't 
imagine what pleasure anyone gets from doing that, but if that's what 
you like to do, go do it.  

All I was saying is that in the particular case of Morton Feldman, I 
don't think he is described as a "minimalist" by anyone who knows his 
music.  I've been reading the topica.com Feldman list since its 
inception, e.g., and I don't recall a single person ever even using the 
term.  Minimalism is, among other things, tonal music -- repetitive 
tonal music that generally avoids melody, development of motifs, and 
the tonic-dominant relationship, but tonal nevertheless.  (In fact, 
avoidance of tonic-dominant in a tonal setting is the minimalists' 
little secret.)  Feldman didn't do that.  


#92 of 156 by dbratman on Sun Nov 4 17:24:47 2001:

Lovers of Feldman's music, talking among themselves, don't need to call 
him minimalist or non-minimalist: they already know what he sounds like.

Tonality is not really a requirement of minimalism, or at least of the 
things I hear called minimalism.  What's common to them all is simple 
harmony: this usually takes the form of tonality in Glass, but less so 
in other minimalists, particularly non-American ones, which is part of 
what I was thinking of when I said that Feldman is more like the 
Eastern European mystics than the New York minimalists.

I'm really sorry to see you using the word "pigeonholes".  That's 
usually just the derisive form of the words "labels" or "categories".  
Categorization, since you seem to be bewildered by it ("I can't imagine 
what pleasure anyone gets from doing that"), is a natural human 
function, akin to gestalt perception, which people use all the time.  
Faced with the infinite variety of music, people wishing to find their 
way around and make sense of it all will naturally observe that A is 
rather like B which is rather like C.  And when A and B and C all share 
striking similarities not shared by other works, and a word exists to 
describe it, they will use that word.  Learn to live with this, 
Michael, and stop refusing to see the forest for the trees.

It's especially useful when you're trying to describe composers to 
people who haven't heard them, and while you may be a Feldman expert, 
other people reading this topic may never have heard anything by him at 
all.  To describe it to them by saying "it's uniquely Feldman", while 
true, is of no help whatever; to use a technical description is, I've 
found, confusing to non-musicians; to say "it's basically like 
minimalism", which is what I'm really saying, can be very helpful.

This only becomes pigeonholing when, having established the category, 
the user starts criticizing the composer for not fitting it perfectly, 
or more precisely for not fitting the default form.  This happens all 
the time, but I am not doing it.

The key similarity I see is one I often have to point out in defense of 
this kind of music (or "these kinds of music" if you prefer), and one I 
believe I tried to describe uptopic.  Critics of minimalism complain 
about its thinness of intellectual content and that it has no thrust or 
forward motion, as most Western music does.  It requires a different 
kind of listening.  And this fundamentally different kind of listening 
is a requirement that all the composers we've been talking about share.

It's also shared by some earlier problematic composers, notably 
Bruckner, whom I've seen described as a proto-minimalist.  Not a 
minimalist per se, because of the chronologic distinction and because 
he's so different in other respects, but he does have this in common.  
It gives me pleasure, Michael, to contemplate the similarities between 
Bruckner and the minimalists, because it enriches my experience of 
listening to both, and if you call that pigeonholing, I can only regret 
your inabiliity to see the great web of similarities and influences in 
the vast field of music.


#93 of 156 by md on Sun Nov 4 18:37:00 2001:

I guess we have to agree to disagree.  I understand everything you've 
said, but I have to repeat that being told that someone thinks Morton 
Feldman is a "minimalist" does nothing to enhance my appreciation of 
his music, which, I dare to suggest, is at least as great as yours. 

[Fwiw, Feldman himself once said, "I certainly don't consider myself a 
minimalist at all."  But I don't suppose that matters: you're gonna tie 
that can to his tail no matter what.]


#94 of 156 by dbratman on Tue Nov 6 00:39:52 2001:

Michael, I already observed that most composers - indeed, most creative 
artists of any sort - dislike labels.  Partly because they fear what 
you fear, which is pigeonholing (not, I repeat, the same thing as 
labeling), andf partly because, having found their metier through 
private personal imperatives, it's kind of disconcerting to find other 
people whose own private personal imperatives have led them to the same 
place.  It's a little like finding other people at the same obscure 
state park campground you've always secretly considered your own.

But that doesn't make the labels any less useful and valuable.

I am not "tying a can to his tail", and if you think I am, that shows 
you either do not in fact understand what I've said or are deliberately 
choosing to ignore it.  To "tie a can" means to me to claim that this 
is the only, or the essential, thing to say about Feldman, or to demand 
that his music fit the predetermined category - that is, pigeonholing, 
which I repeat I'm not doing.  Nowhere have I criticized Feldman for 
not being more like a canonical minimalist.

If it sounds like I'm harping on this one point, it's only because I'm 
trying to make it clear.  It's a minor point, really, and if I'd made 
it clear the first time, I'd have dropped it.

To "be told that someone things Feldman is a minimalist" doesn't do 
anything to enhance my appreciation of him any more than yours, and if 
you think I said it did, that shows you either do not in fact 
understand what I've said or are deliberately choosing to ignore it.  
What I said enriches my listening experience is "to contemplate the 
similarities between Bruckner and the minimalists," or Feldman and the 
minimalists (or the other minimalists, or whatever), which is not the 
same thing.  It is to listen to the music itself and notice the 
enriching similarities between one composer and another.  If, as you 
imply here, you regard each composer as a completely separate unit from 
all other composers, with no close similarities or resemblances, you 
are indeed missing a tremendous amount of appreciation - of any 
composer.

I am hardly the only person to have noticed the close similarity 
between Feldman and the canonical minimalists.  Norman Lebrecht in 
his "Companion to 20th Century Music" writes that Feldman's music is 
remarkably similar to "early minimalism" (by which he means pre-1975 
strict minimalism).  And Grove 7 (the new New Grove) writes that 
Feldman's late style "embraced minimalist repetition", and also notes 
that he was influenced by New York abstract expressionist painters - 
the direct stylistic ancestors of the minimalist painters.

Are you going to say that these respected reference sources are "tying 
a can to his tail"?

If, contrary to the thrust of everything you've written so far, you 
would now like to draw a distinction between saying Feldman's music is 
minimalist and that it bears certain resemblances to minimalism, I 
could go along with that - but those statements are far too closely 
allied for the one to be dismissed as total nonsense while the other is 
agreed to.  If that's what you mean, you would have done well to say so 
a lot earlier.  But if you insist on total separation, I'm going to 
conclude that Lebrecht and the Grove writers know more about music than 
you do.


#95 of 156 by md on Tue Nov 6 13:33:40 2001:

I'm not going to reject my opinion merely because it's mine, as Emerson 
says I shouldn't.  Maybe I've read too much Emerson?  ;-)  

Neither Lebrecht nor the author of the Grove 7 article has listened to 
enough Feldman.  To say that Feldman's late style embraced minimalist 
repetition, for example, is to ignore the repetition that has 
characterized Feldman's music from the very beginning.  Listen to some 
of his string quartet pieces from the 1950s, for example, in which 
motifs are repeated ad infinitum.  It also uses the term "minimalist 
repetition" as if it were a distinct species of musical repetition, 
which it is not, or as if the minimalists invented repetition, which 
they did not.  By that definition, Gustav Holst was a minimalist 
composer.  

The Feldman quote reads in full: "I never feel that my music is sparse 
or minimal; the way fat people never really think they're fat. I 
certainly don't consider myself a minimalist at all." 
http://www.paristransatlantic.com/magazine/txt/feldman_quote.html

That sounds like an amiable way of saying, "I don't accept the term, 
but you can go ahead and use it if you think it applies to me."  So, 
maybe we're both right.  I just think the relation between 
the "minimalist"-sounding elements is in Feldman's music and in the 
minimalists themselves is analogous at best, and certainly not 
homologous.  Birds and buttereflies both have wings.  So?


#96 of 156 by dbratman on Wed Nov 7 00:46:44 2001:

The fat-person analogy in the Feldman quote seems to me to not only 
give one permission to call his music minimalist, it's as much to admit 
that he realizes it falls in that category, even though he doesn't 
think of it that way himself.  (And why should he?  Good creative 
artists rarely think of themselves as fitting in categories, no matter 
how well they do fit.  That's what criticism and analysis are for.)

"Sparse [and] minimal" (if not necessarily minimal_ist_) are certainly 
words that have come forcibly to my mind whenever I've heard anything 
by Feldman.  If you don't find that so, it could be because you've 
heard too much Feldman: the more familiar in detail with an artist's 
work one is, the more aware one may be of subtleties and variations in 
the generalizations - but that doesn't make the generalizations any 
less valid as generalizations.  Whatever your justification for 
disagreeing with them, I'm not going to take it on your word that 
Lebrecht and the Grove encyclopedia don't know what they're talking 
about, especially as what they say fits what my ears hear.

You say that the relation between Feldman's music (or that aspect of 
it - at last we have an acknowledgment that there is such an aspect) 
and "the minimalists themselves" is "analogous at best, and certainly 
not homologous."  The problem with that is that "the minimalists 
themselves" are no homogenous group either.  Maybe that's the 
perceptual problem: if one considers "the minimalists" to be 
homogenous, of course one will resent the inclusion of a person outside 
of the original group.  But the music of Glass and of Terry Riley 
(especially if you don't boil them down to their best-known mannerisms, 
and in particular don't assume that Riley is all like "In C") is as 
different as either is from Feldman.  And once one includes the Eastern 
European mystics as minimalists, which I've been doing from the 
beginning of this discussion, the variety within "the minimalists" is 
even more dramatic - especially as, even allowing for their shared 
nationality, Glass, Riley and Feldman have a much more similar 
intellectual background than any of them does with the eastern 
Europeans like Gorecki or Pärt.  For what it's worth, the single other 
composer Feldman most reminds me of is LaMonte Young.

All music is repetitious in one way or another.  Minimalism is more 
than repetition (though some people who dislike it will deny that), but 
it is marked by a particular way of handling repetition, a particular 
style of repetition, or, if you will, "a distinct species".  I don't 
know what Holst works you have in mind as pseudo-minimalist: the oboe 
theme in Beni Mora, perhaps?  But that's not at all minimalist 
repetition; and if Feldman's earlier string quartet pieces are equally 
non-minimalist repetition, that only reinforces Grove's point that it's 
Feldman's later works which are more minimalist.


#97 of 156 by md on Wed Nov 7 12:17:32 2001:

(Bird wings and butterfly wings are not the same organ, is all I 
meant.  Similar function, but very different morphology.  Butterfly 
wings and wasp wings are homologous.  Butterfly wings and bird wings 
are analogous.  

Whatever.  Sorry I brought it up now, but, apropos, I ought to add that 
taxonomy is something I'm adept at.  The real difference between us is 
that you're a lumper and I'm a splitter, as the taxonomists say.)


#98 of 156 by dbratman on Mon Nov 12 06:26:23 2001:

Well, I hear the simplicity and repetition in Feldman and most 
minimalists as working the same way.  The simplicity and repetition in 
Holst and, say, a Baroque passacaglia work differently.

Being adept at taxonomy as a science doesn't mean one knows one's 
ferns.  I've studied taxonomy too.  Evidently you know Feldman better 
than I do, but I suspect I know the canonical minimalists better than 
you do.

I would be readier to accept your conclusion that I'm a lumper and 
you're a splitter, were it not for your earlier posts ridiculing the 
very notion of lumping.


#99 of 156 by md on Mon Nov 12 12:16:02 2001:

That's what us splitters do.  ;-)


#100 of 156 by davel on Mon Nov 12 14:02:54 2001:

Whereas we grammar-nitpickers insist that it should be "we splitters".


#101 of 156 by md on Mon Nov 12 14:12:34 2001:

But then I couldn't've used the winking smiley!


#102 of 156 by md on Thu Nov 29 22:49:06 2001:

Waiting for my daughter to emerge from swim practice the other night, I 
was listening to Morton Feldman's Coptic Light on the car CD player.  
When she got into the car, I offered to switch back to FM, but she said 
to let it play.  "You'll change your mind."  "What is it?"  "Morton 
Feldman."  "Different."  Two minutes later, she said, "How long does it 
go on for?"  "Half an hour."  "Half an hour!  It's not even music.  If 
I was the percussionist, I'd have a drum stick in my right hand and 
Vogue in my left hand."


#103 of 156 by md on Wed Feb 6 13:03:25 2002:

The new BBC Music magazine came with a CD of Alban Berg's Violin 
Concerto.  I've heard it a few times in concert but I've never owned a 
recording of it and so have never devoted any time to repeated 
listening and "appreciation."  Like most other listeners, I guess, I've 
always liked the so-called "Mizzi" tune parts with their swoony 
harmonies, and of course the ending where Berg reveals the old-
fashioned romantic he was said to be at heart, but much of the rest of 
it is serialist and thus, to me, incomprehensible.  If you listen to it 
a few times, though, the tone-row Berg based it on couldn't be 
clearer.  The appeal of the piece, for me, still lies in the blessed 
relief afforded by the "easy" parts, such as the way the Bach chorale 
emerges from the tone row in the second movement.  It's like having a 
headache, taking some Tylenol, and later realizing the headache is 
gone.  Berg intended it as a consolatory piece for architect Walter 
Gropius and his wife Alma (Mahler's widow), whose daughter had died in 
her teens.  It is incredibly touching when listened to in that light.


#104 of 156 by md on Wed Feb 27 17:39:55 2002:

At Harmony House Classical on Woodward, I picked up a couple of new CDs:

Way back in response #31 I mentioned an Albany Records re-release of 
three old monaural recordings issued by Columbia in the early 1950s: 
Walter Piston's Symphony No. 4, Roy Harris's Symphony No. 7, and 
William Schuman's Symphony No. 6, all by Eugene Ormandy and the 
Philadelphia Orchestra.  The Piston 4th has been recarded a couple of 
times since then, but I'm not aware of any new recordings of the Harris 
7th or the Schuman 6th until now.  Koch has released a CD with both of 
those works on it, performed by the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra 
under the direction of Hugh Keelan.  The Harris symphony is very 
listenable but rather slight.  The Schuman 6th is still a masterpiece, 
and I don't use that word often.  Thus Koch and the New Zealanders once 
again trump the big American labels and orchestras in rescuing great 
American music from oblivion.  (They started the Samuel Barber revival 
in the 1980s.)

Speaking of Barber, the other CD has three Barber works -- the Second 
Symphony, the Cello Concerto, and the orchestral suite from the ballet 
Medea -- all with Samuel Barber himself conducting the New Symphony 
Orchestra.  The recordings were made in 1950, and are absolutely 
horrible.  I guess thanks should go to the Pearl label for digitally 
remastering these recordings, although they are valuable only as 
historic documents.  


#105 of 156 by dbratman on Mon Mar 11 21:57:33 2002:

I wish more of those American nationalists school works of the 1930s-
50s would be re-recorded.  I associate much of that music with crackly 
monophonic sound, and it's really startling to hear it in clear stereo.

Most of what does exist in new recordings of second-tier music of this 
kind comes from the NZSO, who are to be blessed for this project.  (I 
have their recording of Randall Thompson's 2nd and 3rd symphonies, as 
well as that Barber Second.)

Pearl only does historical recordings, I think, and you can take it as 
a rule of thumb that the sound will be horrible, no matter what the 
age.  (Other companies' historical recordings are often much better.)


#106 of 156 by md on Sat May 4 00:33:03 2002:

I picked up a CD of a pianist named Ronnie Lynn Patterson playing two 
Morton Feldman pieces, "Palais de Mari" and "Piano."  Feldman was a 
superb orchestrator and his orchestral and chamber music could be quite 
colorful.  Here, his bare-bones style is stripped to, well, the bare 
bones.  The music is pianissimo throughout and very slow and 
deliberate.  Single notes and dissonant chords follow one another, 
singly or in pairs.  The pieces are about 40 minutes long each.  
Feldman claimed that he made no effort to make his music interesting, 
and that in fact he tried to withhold his own personality from it as 
much as possible.  The fact that he now has imitators, and that the 
word "Feldmanesque" has entered the vocabulary of the critics, shows 
that he didn't quite succeed.  It is very hard not to love the composer 
of this music.

While I was there, I bought some Debussy piano music I didn't have on 
CD yet: Images I and II, Estampes, Images oubliees, La plus que lente 
(valse), and L'Isle joyeuse, performed on a nice Naxos budget CD by 
Francois-Joel Thiollier.  Sometimes after I listen to Feldman's music, 
the music of other composers can seem a little vulgar.  It didn't 
happen this time, possibly because the two Feldman piano pieces are so 
thin as to be almost not there, but in any case definitely because 
nothing can make Debussy's exquisite piano music sound vulgar.


#107 of 156 by dbratman on Mon May 6 23:13:28 2002:

What do you think of Debussy's other music?  B. declined to accompany 
me to a concert at which "La Mer" would be played, due to holding 
strong opinions about it which could vaguely be summarized as "it's 
vulgar".


#108 of 156 by md on Tue May 7 12:08:51 2002:

I've never read anything to confirm this, but it has always seemed to 
me that you can trace the harmonic and melodic history of modern 
popular music back to Debussy.  Maybe due to that, some of the sounds 
that were brand-new with him now sound old and corny and, yes, vulgar.  
As to La mer, who knows?  Vulgarity is relative.  I guess the sonorous, 
majestic "song of the sea" that the horns sing at the end of the first 
movement and again in the last movement could be accused of being 
vulgar, as could the waltz episode in the second movement.  (I find the 
third movement a little tedious, which is not the same thing.)  But the 
second movement is one of the most subtly beautiful things Debussy ever 
wrote.  

As to vulgarity, we should launch a defense of it.  Some of the best 
music was vulgar when the ink was still wet.  Brahms, Mahler, 
Shostakovich, Copland.  Stravinsky, among others, thought Beethoven's 
9th was vulgar.  Vulgarity -- such things as simple obvious melodies, 
galumphing rhythms, repetition in place of development, overly broad 
gestures, rampant heart-on-sleeve sentimentality, soap-box appeal to 
the masses, and the composer shoving his own personality forward -- is 
not, strangely enough, a valid measure of the value of a work of art.


#109 of 156 by rcurl on Tue May 7 16:19:02 2002:

Obviously. "Vulgar" just means common. Every note in music, by itself,
is "common". It hardly helps to consider "simple" as necessarily "common".
It is entirely a matter of context. 

By the way, #108 sounds like a quote - is it (besides of md....)?


#110 of 156 by md on Tue May 7 17:05:54 2002:

It doesn't just mean common.  As applied to music -- e.g., La mer, to 
the person who refused to attend the concert - it's definition 4 from 
Merriam-Webster: "a : lacking in cultivation, perception, or taste : 
COARSE b : morally crude, undeveloped, or unregenerate : GROSS c : 
ostentatious or excessive in expenditure or display : PRETENTIOUS."  
Definition 4c probably comes closest.

108 is just me.


#111 of 156 by rcurl on Tue May 7 17:38:18 2002:

"Common" has the the same definitions (among others). In both cases these
are matters of personal judgement. I prefer to use the term "common",
as it is not laden with the "uppity and elitist" insinuations we usually
attach to "vulgar".

Common, adj, 5. Commonplace;  not excellent or distinguished in tone or
quality; banal, coarse; vulgar; low.

La mer is a fine piece of music, in my opinion, not common, much less
vulgar. Si gustibus non disputandem est.


#112 of 156 by md on Tue May 7 19:00:45 2002:

I'm sure Debussy rests easier now.  ;-)


#113 of 156 by rcurl on Tue May 7 19:24:47 2002:

Debussy is dead and gone. 

I hardly think that any classical music that caused a near riot at its
premier can be called either common or vulgar.



#114 of 156 by md on Tue May 7 19:50:11 2002:

Why not?  

(Just asking -- I mean, I love La mer whether or not anyone thinks its 
vulgar.  I didn't even bring the subject up.  I'm just curious what 
relation you think "causing a riot" has to "not being vulgar."  The two 
things don't seem related.)  


#115 of 156 by rcurl on Tue May 7 23:19:42 2002:

Classical audiences don't riot at the common or vulgar, they go to
sleep. 


#116 of 156 by coyote on Thu May 9 20:59:11 2002:

Shoot, they go to sleep even during the sublime.


#117 of 156 by gelinas on Tue Jun 4 03:39:21 2002:

Uh... Le sacre du printemps (spelling may be off) caused a riot at its first
performance, specifically because it was 'vulgar'.


#118 of 156 by md on Tue Jul 9 23:44:40 2002:

Speaking of vulgar:

I picked up a CD with three pieces that meet all the requirements I 
listed above: simple obvious melodies, galumphing rhythms, repetition 
in place of development, overly broad gestures, rampant heart-on-sleeve 
sentimentality, soap-box appeal to the masses, and the composer shoving 
his own personality forward.  Specifically, thee works for organ and 
orchestra: Francis Poulenc's Concerto for Organ, Strings and Tympani; 
Pierre Petit's Concertino for Organ, Strings and Percussion; and Samuel 
Barber's Toccata Festiva, which is a 16-minute work for organ and full 
orchestra.  (Well, I don't know if Pierre Petit is shoving his 
personality forward in his Concertino because it's the only music of 
his I've ever heard and I have no idea what his musical personality was 
like.  But Barber and Poulenc are all over you like a couple of big 
dogs when you walk in the door.)

The Poulenc piece appealed to me greatly when I was much younger but 
not so much anymore.  It's a little too calculatedly melodramatic, too 
Phantom-of-the-Opera.  The Petit piece is tuneful and listenable, but 
that's about it.  

Barber's Toccata Festiva is mostly a dark gnarly piece of music, with a 
few passages that the liner notes describe quite accurately 
as "ravishing."  This piece is a textbook example of Barber's genius 
with cadences -- of sending a tune on its way and then bringing it back 
home in the most utterly satisfying manner imaginable.  He is on a par 
with the greatest composers of all time in this one respect.  The 
Toccata is in loose sonata-allegro form with a brief cadenza after the 
development section.  This cadenza is the Toccata's Achilles heel.  
It's for pedals only, and hasn't a trace of Samuel Barber in it -- in 
fact, it might not even have been written by him.  (My private theory 
is that Thomas Schippers wrote most of it for him.)  But over-all this 
is one of the gems of Barber's middle period, along with the Piano 
Concerto and the opera Vanessa.  This performance, by Dame Gillian Weir 
at the organ and the English Chamber Orchestra conducted by Raymond 
Leppard, stands up well to the original recording by E. Power Biggs and 
Ormandy/Philadelphia.  16'20" -- a dollar a minute at Harmony House, 
well worth it.


#119 of 156 by orinoco on Thu Jul 11 18:32:33 2002:

I'd be tempted to say that's what you get with music for organ and
orchestra.  Murphy's law tells me that now someone will come out of the
woodwork with a tasteful, refined and inobtrusive organ and orchestra
piece, but something tells me that's not too likely.



#120 of 156 by md on Sun Aug 4 13:17:19 2002:

I went to Harmony House Classical in Royal Oak to see what their going-
out-of-business sale looks like.  25% off everything.  People were 
buying *stacks* of CDs.  

I picked up the new release of John Adams's Naive and Sentimental Music 
and the Abbado recording on DG of Pelleas et Melisande.  I have Pelleas 
twice on LP, by Ernest Ansermet and by Pierre Boulez, but not on CD 
yet.  I still like the Ansermet best.  The new John Adams piece is 
[looks apologetic] kinda boring.  Sorry.  I mean, if I'd never heard 
any of his other music I might find this fascinating, but it's just the 
same old same old.  I dunno, maybe I should lsten to it more.  Adams is 
one composer I really want to like.

The guy behind the counter said they're going to be open for a few more 
months, so I didn't buy a stack of CDs on the spot myself.


#121 of 156 by md on Wed Aug 7 01:01:32 2002:

Did I mention how much I love Debussy's Pelleas et Melisande?  I've 
been listening to my new Abbado CD and am enthralled by it all over 
again.  Can you convert from an American to un Francais?  I mean, not 
move there, just change my ethnic heritage?  How about if I brush up my 
French and start shrugging a lot?


#122 of 156 by md on Wed Sep 4 23:36:01 2002:

I had to be in Royal Oak yesterday so I stopped in on Harmony House 
Classical again.  Everything is now 40% off, but there isn't a lot left 
in stock.  I picked up three CDs: Wm. Schuman's Violin Concerto, New 
England Triptych, and Variations on "America"; Edward MacDowell's two 
orchestral suites and a Hamlet & Ophelia piece; and Jaarvi and the DSO 
performing Copland's 3rd and Harris's 3rd.  

I really like Jaarvi's way with American music.  His Barber 
performances are excellent.  On this CD, he's more crisp and less 
rhapsodic with the Harris 3rd than I'm used to hearing.  I need to 
listen to it some more.  The Copland 3rd is wonderful, though.  Very 
powerful and monumental, as if Jaarvi is throwing himself into it.  The 
Schuman Violin Concerto is new to me.  It needs more listening than I 
have time to give it right now, alas, but I'll get there eventually.  
The MacDowell suites are teenage favorites of mine that still have a 
lot of charm in them, at least for me.  The liner notes are a little 
disparaging, though.

Chatting with one of the sales guys (who used to be an announcer on 
WQRS, which explains why his voice soinded so familiar), I learned that 
some investors are looking at Harmony House Classical, if not at the 
whole chain, so there is slight reason to hope that they'll keep their 
jobs there and that we'll keep our best retail shop of that kind in our 
area.


#123 of 156 by coyote on Sat Sep 7 03:35:06 2002:

I certainly hope they find some way to continue!

I was there last weekend and came away with almost a shoeboxfull of cds...
way more than I could reasonably afford but I couldn't help it.

That Jarvi recording is very enjoyable, and it did take me a few listens to
accept the crispness of the Harris 3.  One of the new cds I picked up,
actually, was Bernstein doing Harris 3 with New York: needless to say, quite
different from the Jarvi.


#124 of 156 by md on Sat Sep 7 15:20:41 2002:

An old Bernstein recording of the Harris 3rd is on the flip side of 
Benstein's "Jeremiah" Symphony on an LP that I still have somewhere.  
It must date from around 1960, if not earlier.  I have a more recent 
version of Bernstein conducting the Harris 3rd on CD, coupled with with 
Schuman's 3rd.  I really never imagined there was another way of 
performing it until I heard that Jarvi/DSO CD.  Jarvi/DSO did a CD with 
music by some African American composers I've never heard of, that 
Harmoney House had several copies of.  Have you heard this one?  Worth 
having at 40% off?


#125 of 156 by coyote on Sun Sep 8 17:59:35 2002:

I think I did hear that CD you mentioned, I believe the Ann Arbor library had
if you'd like to take a listen before deciding on it.  From what I remember
(it was about 2 years ago) I did enjoy the recording, but I never gave it a
good critical listen.  I had mainly checked it out for the Elligton piece on
it, "The Three Black Kings," because an orchestra I was in was playing the
MLK section of it.  Sorry that's not a very helpful review!

The Harris recording on the Bernstein CD I just got dates from 1962, so I
wonder if it's the same one...


#126 of 156 by md on Wed Sep 25 18:17:43 2002:

Morton Feldman: Piano and String Quartet.  Kronos Quartet with Aki 
Takahashi.  

A recent poll on one of my Feldman lists showed this to be the most 
popular Feldman recording with the members.  It’s an hour and twenty 
minutes of piano arpeggios and ghostly string chords, played pianissimo 
throughout.  Every once in a while one of the instruments will play an 
isolated note or small series of notes.  About two-thirds of the way 
through, the music changes character and becomes a series of evenly 
spaced chords by the string quartet against isolated piano notes that 
are gradually revealed to be the familiar arpeggios in slo-mo.  The 
music finally reverts to an "older and wiser" version of the opening 
sounds.  

Feldman didn’t think his music was “minimal,” and he didn’t regard 
himself as a minimalist.  And in fact, his music doesn’t remotely 
resemble that of any of the minimalists when you hear it played, only 
when you read descriptions of it like this one.  So don’t listen to it 
if you’re a Glass or Reich or Adams or Riley fan looking for more of 
same.  Here’s what it is: You know the kind of music you sometimes hear 
in the background of a movie when the heroine opens the door to an 
attic filled with mysterious objects, light from a window streaming in 
through the dusty air, the whole scene enigmatic but not especially 
menacing or foreboding.  Silence.  A quiet piano arpeggio in no 
recognizable key over a hushed string chord.  Silence.  Repeat.  
Silence.  Repeat.  Now turn the movie off and let the music go on like 
that by itself for 80 minutes.  


#127 of 156 by coyote on Thu Sep 26 05:01:34 2002:

I was looking to buy my first Feldman recording about a month ago and
considered this one that you're talking about, but I decided ultimately on
a recording that featured Coptic Light, Piano and Orchestra, and Cello and
Orchestra.  I didn't know what to expect, never having heard Feldman before,
only having heard about him, but I was still very surprised by the music. 
It's really not like anything else I've heard.  Very hypnotic.  I don't know
that I initially liked it, but once I withdrew and listened to the music
on a different time scale I really began to enjoy it.  I guess in that
sense the composer it most reminds me of is Gavin Bryers, though with a
certain added complexity and sophistication.


#128 of 156 by md on Thu Sep 26 12:39:47 2002:

Good choice.  I like all three of those pieces, but I'm crazy about 
Coptic Light.  I think I might've entered an intemperate rave about it 
up there somewhere.  


#129 of 156 by dbratman on Thu Sep 26 21:58:24 2002:

"Piano and String Quartet" is the Feldman work I know best, and the 
work that originally sold me on this composer. I picked it up in the 
first place because I like the quintet for piano & strings as a 
combination of instruments.

For what it's worth, it strikes me, while listening to it, as very much 
resembling, and in the same spirit as, the music of LaMonte Young, the 
original minimalist, and a good bit of Terry Riley's too.  It's far 
closer to their work in style and spirit than any of them are like 
Glass and Reich.  Broadly speaking, these three composers are out to 
contemplate the universe, slowly; while Glass and Reich are urban 
jitterbugs.  (Riley's "In C" may at first sound like an urban jitterbug 
work, but not taken as a whole.)

None of this is to deny Feldman's distinctive individuality, that all 
great composers have, or to claim that anybody necessarily influenced 
anybody else.

Of course Feldman denied being a minimalist.  So have Riley, Reich, 
Glass, John Adams ... all with equally good reason.  It's a broad brush 
that would call Beethoven, Weber, Brahms, and Wagner all "Romantics".  
Nevertheless it's a useful box and it will continue to be used.

Whether you like the term or not, Feldman and the canonical minimalists 
were all equally part of a startling revolution towards simplicity, of 
making minimal means serve for maximum effect, in complete opposition 
to, and against the vehement objections of, the highly complex 
expressionist orthodoxy of their day.  In that, all these composers are 
alike, as much as any group of individual geniuses can be alike, and 
really no two more alike or unalike than any other two.


#130 of 156 by md on Thu Sep 26 22:28:58 2002:

The October BBC Music mag has a review of an Abbado/BPO live 
performance CD of Mahler's 9th in which there is 40 seconds (!) of 
silence after the end of the adagio before the applause starts.  Jeez.


#131 of 156 by md on Fri Sep 27 12:23:23 2002:

[With five minutes to spare before I had to leave for the evening, I 
logged on to enter the above comment about the Abbado/BPO Mahler CD and 
there was dbratman's thought-provoking response about Feldman-as-
minimalist.  I hate it when that happens.  Anyway...  I'll enter a new 
item where we can resume this fascinating (at least to me) discussion.]


#132 of 156 by dbratman on Fri Sep 27 20:55:46 2002:

I'd like the occasional company of concertgoers with the combination of 
respect and awe evident in the description in resp:130

I find that, after a really moving and gripping performance, an 
interval of, not 40 to be sure, but maybe 5 or 10, seconds often 
elapses during which I collect myself before I'm ready to applaud.

Needless to say, many of the rest of them are well into it by then.  
Worse still are the ones who start applauding before the piece is over, 
particularly with "fake-ending" works like Sibelius's Fifth or 
Weber's "Invitation to the Dance".  Fortunately that habit is a bit on 
the decline, at least in concerts I attend.  Partly this decline is due 
to conductors being more careful to communicate via body language that 
it ain't over yet.


#133 of 156 by md on Fri Sep 27 21:59:10 2002:

Sometimes after a piece like the Mahler 9th one clap in the silence is 
all it takes to break the spell and get everyone started.  I never like 
to be the one to start the applause.  Let someone else take that 
responsibility.  On the other hand, I don't think I could've resisted 
in this case.  I'd've cracked after 20 seconds, tops.  40 seconds after 
the end of Mahler's 9th I'd've had my coat on and been out the door 
alfreakinready.  


#134 of 156 by dbratman on Sat Sep 28 00:23:05 2002:

Oh, well, if you're going to be that way <g>, if it was Mahler's Ninth 
I'd not have been at the concert in the first place.


#135 of 156 by mary on Sat Sep 28 11:34:15 2002:

Good, more room for me. ;-)


#136 of 156 by dbratman on Mon Sep 30 20:23:15 2002:

More room for Mahler, too; he sprawls all over the place.  Mahler is 
the musical equivalent of the guy on the bus who sits with his knees so 
far apart he pushes his neighbors off the program.


#137 of 156 by mary on Mon Sep 30 22:04:21 2002:

I'll take a guy who lets his legs fall wherever they may over one
who keeps them crossed, anyday.  Guys who cross their legs while seated
spend too much time contemplating which socks to wear.  

Mahler tells stories.  Long stories.  Maybe too long for most.


#138 of 156 by dbratman on Tue Oct 1 00:27:59 2002:

It's not length.  It's sprawl.  "Tells stories" may be the clue, 
because music that tells stories tends to sprawl.  (Think: opera.)  
Music that just is, like sculpture, tends not to sprawl, however long 
it may be.


#139 of 156 by md on Fri Nov 1 14:34:38 2002:

Morton Feldman: Violin and String Quartet.  Rangzen Quartet, with 
Christina Fong playing the third violin.  It's a two-CD set on the 
OgreOgress label, packaged in an attractively flimsy paperboard and 
plastic folder from which a "Free Tibet Now!" sticker fell when I first 
opened it.  ("Rangzen" evidently means "independence": 
http://www.rangzen.org/ is the web site of the International Tibet 
Independence Movement.)

Two CDs, because this one-movement piece is two hours long.  It's 
typical late Feldman: little one-, two- or three-note figures in the 
soloist against scraps of chords in the quartet, very slow and 
deliberate, pianissimo throughout.  You have to be willing to let the 
music work on your mind at its own pace.  


#140 of 156 by md on Mon Feb 3 14:24:16 2003:

Looks like Harmoney House Classical is staying open a while longer, as 
is the bigger store down Woodward from them.  I picked up three CDs at 
the classical store last week: the latest Samuel Barber CD in the Naxos 
series, a Naxos Kabalevsky CD, and a two-CD set of Robert Casadesus 
playing Ravel.  (I guess that makes it four CDs in total.)

Anyone who is old enough will remember Columbia's three-LP set of 
Casadesus performing Ravel's complete piano music.  The three LP 
slipcovers (sleeves? dust jackets? what did we call them?  I've 
forgotten already) were a familiar sight to me when I was a kid.  One 
was pink, one was yellow and one was blue.  1950-style graphic of wire-
figure seated at piano.  Huge word "ravel" in lowercase while letters.  
Anyway, I had to have this CD remastering, and I'm not disappointed.  
The sound is excellent and Casadesus is in top form.  He is joined by 
his wife Gaby on Ma Mere l'Oye and by Zino Francescatti on the Berceuse 
sur le nom de Gabriel Faure.  There is also a performance of the "Left 
Hand" concerto with Ormandy/Philadelphia which I had never heard.  Not 
a great recording of that piece (I like Boulez/Entrement), but the solo 
piano music is wonderful.  These recodings were originally released in 
1947, 1948 and 1952.

The Barber CD has the Piano Concerto, Die Natali, Medea's Meditation 
and Dance of Vengeance, and the Commando March.  Barber, who was a 
competent pianist but hardly a virtuoso, played the last movement of 
the piano concerto at half speed while he was composing it.  He didn't 
believe it when the soloist, John Browning, said it was impossible to 
play at the indicated tempo.  Barber took the score to his friend 
Vladimir Horowitz and asked him what he thought.  Horowitz pronounced 
the finale unplayable.  Barber (probably grumbling all the way) rewrote 
the worst parts of the finale to accomodate Browning.  It still sounds 
unplayable to me, despite the evidence of my ears.  I have all of this 
music on LP, even the Commando March, but the CD is still worth having.

The Kabalevsky CD has Colas Breugnon, The Comedians and Romeo & 
Juliet.  The Colas Breugnon overture is famous, but the rest of the 
piece isn't as good, imho, and isn't heard as much.  The Comedians is 
an absolutely wonderful piece of light classical music.  It's like a 
little anthology of Soviet mannerisms.  Romeo and Juliet I don't like 
as much.  The liner notes reveal that Kabalevsky was something of an 
informer and a backstabber during the Stalin era.  More evidence that 
bad people can write good music.


#141 of 156 by keesan on Tue Feb 4 03:49:54 2003:

White paper dust jacket inside colored cardboard sleeve?  Most used records
have them both facing the same direction so you can get the record in and out
faster, which of course lets the dust in.


#142 of 156 by dbratman on Tue Feb 4 17:28:29 2003:

I've heard some of Kabalevsky's symphonies and other major concert 
music.  If you haven't, you're not missing too much.  He had a minor 
gift for lighter stuff, and "The Comedians" is indeed delightful 
(better even than most of Shostakovich's work in that vein), but Kab 
seems never to have matched it.

I don't think I've heard the rest of Colas Breugnon, but the overture 
is played by itself enough to make one suspicious that the rest doesn't 
measure up.  Of the class of exceedingly obscure larger works with 
exceedingly famous extracts, the one case I know where the larger work 
is definitely as good as the extract is the "Suite algerienne" by Saint-
Saens, from which comes the "French Military March".  The rest of the 
suite is good too, but it's remarkably hard to find.


#143 of 156 by md on Tue Apr 15 17:23:33 2003:

A CD called "Silencio" featuring Gidon Kremer and the Kremerata 
Baltica.  Here is a review of it from a German web site which I ran 
through the AltaVista Babel Fish translator, which is all this piece of 
crap deserves.  I agree with the deutschesreviewer entirely, aber the 
Part as unlistenable as the rest of it I found.

Silencio 

Gidon Kremer (violin), Tatjana Grindenko (violin), Eri Klas, Kremerata 
Baltica 

Nonesuch/Warner Classics 0 75597 95822 5 
(68 min., taken up 9 & 11/99) 
---------------

I must carry out for the Philip Glass apology instaendig geschmaehten 
by me. Yes, I admit it, I him as the most boring all boring composer 
had always regarded. When hearing "company" the piece mentioned on 
these CD was also first confirmed mine for judgement irrefutably held: 
the usual cloudy-intimate Einheitsgedudel for Streicher. Then however I 
was instructed painfully, very painfully, a better one: by Vladimir 
Martynow and its work "Come in!". Flauschig sweet harmonies to hit 
terribly sentimental melodies, which refuse constantly, possibly a way -
 in addition troestlich the Celesta rings in regular intervals. Film 
scenes urge itself up: After had giving family puts Smith in the 
Christamas Eve blessedly to the peace. And then the whole is repeated 
also still painful siebenundzwanzig minutes long around other time. 
       According to introduction text this music represents the search 
for heaven in own. The ticking wood block then probably symbolizes a 
knocking on the sky gate. May with this Erbauungskitsch become blessed 
who wants, I recommends him instead of Schaefchen count as a falling 
asleep assistance. 
       One could check off these CD provided in the supplement with 
artistically guaranteed terribly valuable black-and-white photos and 
meaning meanings quotations from Kremer to Cage as typical product of 
the Meditationswelle, would contain her not also of Arvo Paerts "Tabula 
rasa". In these 1977 Paert a masterpiece completed Concerto grosso well-
behaved composition created, whose suggestive strength it later never 
reached more. Certainly, also in the second sentence of "Tabula rasa" 
nothing develops, but Paert succeeds it here with extremely economical 
means to evoke a condition from absolute timelessness to hypnotisch, 
asketisch, as it were entmaterialisiert. That is mile far distant for 
fashionable music motivated religiously by the devotion float so many. 
      , here a fascinating bringing in of large mental clarity, which 
can be considered from now on as reference, succeeds to the dedication 
carriers and interpreters of the premiere, Gidon Kremer, Tatjana 
Grindenko and the conductor Eri Klas. But I would have rather seen it 
in better neighbourhood. 


#144 of 156 by md on Tue Apr 15 17:52:28 2003:

On a lighter note, I got a deal on a CPO label CD of Roland Kluttig 
conducting the Kammerensemble Neue Musik Berlin in a performance of 
Morton Feldman's For Samuel Beckett.

A chamber piece for 23 musicians, For Samuel Beckett is one of the last 
things Feldman wrote before his untimely death in 1987.  The winds and 
strings play overlapping blocks of chords while the tuned percussion 
tinkle away arrhythmically and atonally.  It is in the same genre as 
Coptic Light, but the sound is more solid, less ethereal.  It occurred 
to me as I was listening to it that in a weird way it resembles some of 
the music of Alan Hovhaness, of all people.  Not much, but it's there.  
But it's true, as one critic put it, that Feldman was "an 
unreconstructed modernist," so if you think Hovhaness is the cat's 
pajamas you'll probably find Feldman unlistenable.  


#145 of 156 by dbratman on Fri Apr 18 00:01:59 2003:

Re the German review, anyone with that strong an antipathy to 
minimalism is useless at reviewing a CD of minimalist music, the same 
way someone who hates eggs would be useless at reviewing the quiche or 
omelet offerings at a restaurant.

"Einheitsgedudel" is a wonderful epithet, much more colorful than its 
English translation (which would be roughly "mechanical doodlings"), 
but an essay on "why I hate minimalism," using a given CD as an 
example, says nothing about whether it's good as minimalism.  My own 
reaction is that anything hated so much by someone who hated "Company" 
that much, has got to be good.  "Company", which of all Glass's works 
is surely the one least susceptible to a charge of being too long for 
its musical content, is a delicate, poised and balanced work -- and, 
ironically, it's Glass's music for a play by Samuel Beckett.

In your own voice, you note that Feldman's Beckett resembles Hovhaness 
a little, but you add that "if you think Hovhaness is the cat's pajamas 
you'll probably find Feldman unlistenable."  Well, I'm very fond of 
Hovhaness, less so of Feldman, but I hardly find Feldman unlistenable; 
and I wonder if anyone who thinks Hovhaness is the antithesis of 
modernism has heard the aleatoric string crescendos that were a regular 
feature of his work in the 1960s.  In the same weird way, they resemble 
something by Scelsi.


#146 of 156 by md on Fri Apr 18 11:47:07 2003:

I used to love Hovhaness' music more than I do now, but I still like it 
a lot.  It's been especially gratifying to see the Schwarz/Seattle 
series come out with all those pieces I never heard programmed or 
recorded.  The first thing I ever heard of his was a concert 
performance of his Mysterious Mountain symphony back in the 1950s.  It 
had a powerful effect on my young mind, partly because it proceeded 
from the same Renaissance polyphony as Vaughan Williams' Tallis 
Fantasia, which I was already smitten by.  Talk about lush!  But this 
wasn't the tedious chromaticism of Strauss or Mahler or the rest, it 
was as clean and bracing as the cold mountain water that ripples 
throught it in those celesta figures.  (When Sibelius was composing his 
6th Symphony, which starts with a limpid Palestrina-like passage, he 
said it would be "like a glass of cold spring water," as opposed to 
the "colored cocktails" being served up by Strauss at the time.)  


#147 of 156 by dbratman on Fri Apr 18 17:10:10 2003:

Michael - yes, that's the distinction I was making in my recent post in 
the Bartok topic.

I first came across Hovhaness in a purely abstract way.  The 
development of my tastes in 20th-century music consisted of a running 
battle with the musical orthodoxy of the time, which was circa 1970.  
The composers being pushed in the books on modern music I read - the 
Impressionists, the Second Vienna school, the Darmstadt school - I 
mostly detested.  And the modern composers I liked - Sibelius, 
Shostakovich, the Cheltenham school, the American "prairie" school - 
were mostly dismissed sneeringly in the books.

I had noticed that being dismissed by the academics didn't keep the 
second group from prospering in the record catalogs.  And I also 
noticed that the second group tended to write lots of symphonies, and 
the first group mostly didn't.  So I took to discovering modern 
composers by scouring the Schwann catalog for symphonists; and that, O 
nobly born, is how I discovered Hovhaness, who had already written over 
20 of them, had a long column in Schwann, and wasn't mentioned in the 
books on modern music -at all-.  With a record like that, I knew his 
music -had- to be good, even before I ever listened to any of it.


#148 of 156 by dbratman on Fri Apr 18 17:10:42 2003:

(In subsequent years I found that this technique did not always work.  
For instance, there is Richard Nanes.)


#149 of 156 by coyote on Sun Apr 20 04:26:52 2003:

I bought the "Silencio" CD when Harmony House had their massive clearance sale
last fall, and have been quite pleased with it.  I especially liked Tabula
Rasa, and in fact it might be my favorite Part work [that I've heard]. 
There's no accounting for taste, I guess.

I used to love Hovhaness's music a lot, but some of its charm faded on me
after playing one of his compositions.  When playing this piece (Lake
Samish), instead of gaining a greater understanding and respect for the
work (which is often the case when I play pieces, e.g. Beethoven 9,
Shostakovich Violin Concerto No. 1), it started to mean less to me.  I'm
not sure why, but I think it was that some of the passages were just
unnecessarily awkward, both technically and compositionally.  Granted,
this piece was unpublished and so perhaps is uncharicteristically
unpolished (I had to speak to Mrs. Hinako Hovhaness to obtain the score
and parts).  It's still a beautiful piece to listen to, but it was a very
different experience to perform it.


#150 of 156 by md on Sun Apr 20 20:42:17 2003:

Even that short-tempered German reviewer seemed to like Tabula Rasa.  
Whatever is in there, I guess I'm just not hearing it.

Hovhaness wore thin for me when I realized what a small bag of tricks 
he had.  Same thing with William Schuman.  


#151 of 156 by dbratman on Mon Apr 21 07:28:03 2003:

A dismaying number of composers have small bags of tricks.  I've even 
found Mozart, Bach, and Beethoven to be predictable at times.  The 
answer is not to spend too much time listening to any one composer.

Also, if you're expecting a composer to surprise you, what do you do 
when you listen to a work for the second time?  My pleasure in 
relistening to a work is not solely dependent on noticing new things 
about it I'd previously missed.  A work can have nothing new to say to 
me at all, and yet still be enjoyable.

As for Hovhaness, his bag may have been small, but he carried different 
things in it at different times.  More than many lesser composers, his 
work of different decades can be distinguished fairly easily on blind 
listenings.  Perhaps a sense that he had little to say may have come 
from too much listening to works of the 1980s and 90s, by which time he 
had indeed rather run short on things to say.  But his earlier music 
retains a freshness.



#152 of 156 by md on Mon Apr 21 12:28:26 2003:

I seldom get that feeling with Mozart, and never with Bach or 
Beethoven.  The one indisputably great composer I am sometimes 
surprised to find myself getting impatient with is Bartok.  "Yeah, 
yeah, Bela, we know.  Same-old same-old."  

Merely inhabiting the same "sound world" or writing in an instantly 
recognizable style isn't enough, though.  Anyone might want to hear 
something other than Beethoven after listening to a couple of 
symphonies, but that's not at all the same thing.  There has to be a 
sense of a failure of inspiration, of the composer repeating the same 
tropes and gestures -- William Schuman's scurrying prestissimo 
passages, "blue note" dissonance, kettledrum solos and massive brass 
chords, or Bartok's ebullient modal folk-dances or umpteenth little 
descending minor third figure -- that helped make some earlier work 
memorable, only without the same indispensible creative spark, and it 
has to be repeated in lots of compositions, not just a few potboilers.  
How can you listen to the opening of the Mount St. Helens symphony and 
not realize that you're listening to the opening of Mysterious 
Mountain, only without the "spark from heaven"?


#153 of 156 by dbratman on Tue Apr 22 05:31:06 2003:

With a lot of these earlier composers, I can not only "smell" the 
cadence coming a mile away, I know exactly how they're going to get 
there.

Mozart in particular engaged in some dreadful note-spinning in some of 
his lesser works.  Be careful what you call "potboilers," lest you wind 
up defining it as "those works with predictable characteristics" and 
whisk the problem away by tautology.


#154 of 156 by md on Tue Apr 22 18:58:48 2003:

Okay, I'll be careful.  ;-)


#155 of 156 by md on Thu Jul 10 16:24:14 2003:

Grabbed a buncha Naxoses over the weekend.

John Cage, Sonatas and Interludes for Prepared Piano.  I've always 
liked Cage's prepared piano music.  It's the classical counterpart 
of "novelty" music.  Lots of fun, no deep thought required.  I would 
say ignore the liner notes chatter about Zen, only "no deep thought 
required" *is* Zen.

Arnold Bax, Symphony #6, "Into the Twilight" and "Summer Music."  The 
6th symphony is very dramatic, and the two tone poems are really 
lovely.  Bax was a fine orchestrator, but I don't find his music 
awfully memorable.  

Sheila Silver, Piano Concerto (1996) and "Six preludes pour piano, 
d'apres poemes de Baudelaire" (1991).  Silver, whom I'd never heard of, 
is an American composer born in 1946.  The music on this disc is all 
very listenable.  The Piano Concerto is a strange piece of music.  
Silver is apparently going for an eastern European "Jewish" sound in 
places, but it comes out sounding a little like Bartok, a little like 
Prokofiev, a little like Leonard Bernstein.  There are also repeated 
figures that sound slightly minimalist.  Over-all, I liked it very 
much.  The six preludes are the stars of the CD, in my opinion.  Highly 
recommended.


#156 of 156 by dbratman on Wed Jul 16 04:51:04 2003:

I don't find Bax very memorable either, and have never felt I really 
grasped his music.  I couldn't tell you if I liked any of his 
symphonies better than the others, for instance.

Thanks for the recommendation of Silver.


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