Grex Cinema Conference

Item 44: Movie Reviews for the Summer of 2001

Entered by fitz on Fri Jun 22 13:18:15 2001:

94 new of 284 responses total.


#191 of 284 by deusx23 on Sat Aug 4 18:07:33 2001:

Ack..  I'm on the fence about Chris Tucker.  I half think he's annoying :)
But I thought he was great in The Fifth Element.  I need to see Rush Hour 2
though, for Jackie's sake.  :)
..


#192 of 284 by gelinas on Sun Aug 5 05:34:42 2001:

After watching the end of the movie mentioned above, I watched the beginning
of his "Police Story."  Decided not to stay up to watch all of it, but what
I saw was fun.  (I bugged out just after his girlfriend took off on the
motorcycle.)


#193 of 284 by ric on Mon Aug 6 12:44:11 2001:

We watcheD Wild Things on DVD saturday afternoon - matt dillon, kevin bacon,
neve (?) campbell, and denise richards.  It was marginally interesting,
certainly I enjoyed the scenes involving denise richards naked and making out
with ms. campbell. =)

Yesterday, we saw Planet of the Apes.  I enjoyed it.  Doesn't really bother
me that it was a long way from the original movie.  The ending had me a little
confused though.  How the hell did THAT happen?


#194 of 284 by edina on Mon Aug 6 13:38:26 2001:

Watched "Center Stage" yesterday - cute ballet movie.  The guy who played
Cooper was a hottie - and it was fun watching Ilia Kulik act. 


#195 of 284 by brighn on Mon Aug 6 13:58:46 2001:

Wild Things> I saw that back in the theater, and it didn't make a sou of
sense. But I agree that it was mildly interesting.


#196 of 284 by mooncat on Mon Aug 6 15:36:15 2001:

(Sunny- and just how many Jet Li movies have you seen? The vast 
majority (that I've seen) don't involve sped up action sequences 
<grumbles about people not being allowed to diss Jet Li> Don't get me 
wrong, I love Jackie Chan- he's funny, but Jet has that cute little boy 
look going for him)

Haven't seen Rush Hour II yet, but it's on my 'Must See' list (which is 
very short).


#197 of 284 by deusx23 on Mon Aug 6 16:46:57 2001:

Re #196: Jet Li... cute little boy, eh?  Cute little boy who looks like he's
about to completely ruin your next few months in a few seconds. :)  First time
I'd heard of him was with Black Mask.  Need to see a lot more of him.  Ever
see his little "I am Sci-Fi" commercial on the Sci Fi channel?  Splitting
atoms with his bare fist, wheee!


#198 of 284 by mooncat on Mon Aug 6 18:35:37 2001:

Re #197- Leslie- most of his movies are in Chinese (and dubbed. :( ) 
like Black Mask. Let's see, what else does he have... The Defender 
(also known as Bodyguard From Beijing), Fist of Legend, The Enforcer, 
Once Upon a Time in China (I, II and III), Meltdown, Swordmaster (I and 
II) and several more. <grins> I've seen all the ones listed save for 
Once Upon a Time in China III and Swordmaster I. Oh yeah, he plays a 
bad guy in Leathal Weapon IV.


#199 of 284 by brighn on Mon Aug 6 20:07:51 2001:

Wasn't he alsoo in Romeo Must Die?


#200 of 284 by mooncat on Mon Aug 6 21:55:10 2001:

Yupyup. ut that was after (?) Black Mask and an American release, so I 
wasn't counting it. (Own it though...)


#201 of 284 by edina on Tue Aug 7 14:11:07 2001:

Ok - we saw "Billy Elliot" last night, for lack of anything else to watch -
it was a great movie - but I felt like I needed a bottle of prozac after it.


#202 of 284 by richard on Tue Aug 7 15:57:11 2001:

PLANET OF THE APES-- What was the point of it?  It didnt expand or
re-think the original.  Mark Wahlberg was a weak lead.  The ending was
really corny.  

(note: I saw this while in Bangkok-- the theaters over there have E-Z boy
recliners instead of regular seats, that lean all the way back.  And they
encourage you/expect you to take off your shoes.  It was a bit like
watching a movie in one's livingroom.  And they served booze at the
concession stand.  You havent had the cineplex movie-going experience
until you watch a movie in a theater in a lazy boy recliner in your bare
feet sipping a Singapore Sling!  Of course it is easy to fall asleep!)


#203 of 284 by anderyn on Tue Aug 7 18:44:47 2001:

I would think so, Richard! :-)

Haven't seen any movies lately. Ah well.


#204 of 284 by orinoco on Tue Aug 7 19:02:17 2001:

There were a few theaters in Chicago with liquor licences.  I don't think any
of them had recliners, though.


#205 of 284 by brighn on Tue Aug 7 20:14:29 2001:

You know, if I'd gone all the way to Bangkok to see Planet of the Apes, I
imagine I'd be disappointed, too. Ween't they showing it more locally,
richard?


#206 of 284 by tpryan on Tue Aug 7 21:28:56 2001:

        Quo Vadid in Westland has/had a liquor licence.


#207 of 284 by ric on Wed Aug 8 19:08:22 2001:

Watched Disney's "The Kid" on DVD last night... I found it fairly enjoyable,
albiet corny (all non-animated Disney flicks tend to be corny)


#208 of 284 by beeswing on Wed Aug 8 21:27:28 2001:

Does anyone remember those educational Disney films? I remember 
watching some Disney film in 6th grade about female adolescent 
development. It was of no help at all, and the sound was so bad it was 
like a McDonald's drive through speaker. Very corny too.


#209 of 284 by eeyore on Thu Aug 9 01:36:04 2001:

I remember the ones with Jiminy Cricket....


#210 of 284 by krj on Thu Aug 9 03:41:31 2001:

We saw SONGCATCHER tonight at the Michigan.  The folks who are interested
in old songs or folk songs should probably see it; it's holding at 
the Michigan for most of the next week.  What else has Janet McTeer
done?


#211 of 284 by eeyore on Thu Aug 9 04:06:43 2001:

What is it about?


#212 of 284 by brighn on Thu Aug 9 14:09:51 2001:

#209> Donald Duck in Mathemagic Land is a classic, though... I should try
finding that on tape/dvd.


#213 of 284 by beeswing on Thu Aug 9 14:13:16 2001:

oh yeah, i remember that one.


#214 of 284 by krj on Thu Aug 9 15:06:55 2001:

resp:211 :: SONGCATCHER is set in the earliest 20th century.  Janet McTeer
quits her musicology teaching job after she's passed over for a 
promotion.  She goes to stay with her sister, who is a teacher in a 
one-room schoolhouse in Appalachia, and she discovers that the local 
people have a song tradition which has preserved a sizable number 
of old British Isles ballads.   Janet McTeer's character sets out to 
collect and publish the songs; she encounters a mixed reaction from
the community, and she also gets pulled into a number of local 
dramas involving love and business.


#215 of 284 by edina on Thu Aug 9 22:14:15 2001:

Ken - Janet McTeer was nominated for a Best Actress Oscar for "Tumbleweeds".


#216 of 284 by rcurl on Fri Aug 10 15:28:15 2001:

_Shrek_ was mostly reviewed in Spring 2001 agora, but I finally saw it
last night (I had been searching for Castaway, but it isn't being screened
locally). _Shrek_ is a computer animation tour-de-fore, but one gets used
to that pretty quickly. The story itself is totally conventional although
with some contemporary humor. What did disturb me, however, is the
stereotyping of beauty and ugliness, which confirms in young viewers minds
that anorexic hotties are "beautiful", and dumpy broads are "ugly". Of
course, it was nice that the dumpy broad could find true love...but don't
forget that even the ogre fell in love with the anorexic hottie. 

So, to amuse myself further, as well as to consider the implications of
the stereotyping, I reviewed the movie in my mind but with the interchange
of the anorexic hottie and dumpy broad. Would this have been convincing?
It would mean that the height-challenged king would have had to select the
dumpy broad over the two other anorexic hotties.  Of course, the ogre
would have more quickly appreciated the fine points of the dumpy broad -
clearly a member of his own genotype. He would probably have kissed her
sooner (with the fortunate consequence of shortening the movie), but could
he have then found happiness with a permanently anorexic hottie? I don't
think the audience would have approved. 



#217 of 284 by brighn on Fri Aug 10 16:38:53 2001:

I've wondered if this is the etymology of the title in the first place, but
I can't seem to bring myself to go see Shrek on that basis of the German
"Schrechlich" (spelling), which means "terrible." I suppose the point might
be that the Ogre is a Horror, but I dunno, it just feel like the movie
reviewing itself in the title, and I can't get that out of my mind.


#218 of 284 by krj on Fri Aug 10 17:43:44 2001:

Leslie and I caught what was probably the last local screening of 
"Lara Croft: Tomb Raider" last night.   In general it was a disappointment, 
because the raw material was there for a movie at least as entertaining
as a middling quality James Bond movie.  Angelina Jolie makes a 
pretty good action hero, and a lot of the visuals are pretty good.
They did a halfway decent job with the moral ambiguity of Lara's 
opportunistic boyfriend Alex West, and we liked Lara's assistants,
the geeky technical expert and the butler.

But the movie needed better writing, and too much of it betrayed 
its videogame origins.  There was far too much of "Insert Tab A into 
Slot B"  ("The clock goes here!  No, it goes here!!") and too many
of the action scenes, instead of being exciting, went on at great
repetitive length.   

Another writing failure: the movie makes a point of delivering
the geeky tech guy to Venice, and then to the final confrontation 
in Iceland -- or Siberia, it's never really explained which -- 
but he has nothing to do at the end of the movie -- nothing 
really to do at all after the Illuminati stage the raid on 
Lara's mansion.

Top action scene was probably the attack of the Cambodian
stone temple guards, who of course come to life when the 
treasure they're guarding is stolen.

I'd love to see a sequel with these characters, written by real
screenwriters, with little to no input from the videogame people.

I should warn people that my reaction is more positive than 
Leslie's; she was really bored in the first half of the movie and 
thought about walking out.


#219 of 284 by rcurl on Fri Aug 10 18:31:56 2001:

Re #217: Schrech itself, in German, means terror, fright, horror, etc. 


#220 of 284 by lynne on Fri Aug 10 21:20:05 2001:

re #217 and 219:  And you're both spelling it wrong.  "Schrecklich" or
"Schreck" are the correct spellings, respectively.
I too am less than enthused about seeing the movie because of the German
associations of the title (intentional or not).


#221 of 284 by tpryan on Fri Aug 10 21:32:24 2001:

        Any film that ryhmes with "Drek" should be suspect.


#222 of 284 by rcurl on Fri Aug 10 23:11:10 2001:

Re #229: thanks for correction - I even looked it up myself last night,
but someone threw me off today by mispelling it....  8^}


#223 of 284 by eeyore on Sat Aug 11 01:43:10 2001:

Actually, it's called Shrek for exactly that reason. :)

I did like the fact that when she turned at the end, and was bitching that
she wasn't beautiful, he told her that she was.  :)


#224 of 284 by danr on Sat Aug 11 03:23:22 2001:

Silvia and I went to see Planet of the Apes this evening. I was a bit 
hesitant because Mary Remmers so roundly panned it, but it was actually 
pretty good. The deus ex machina (chimp ex machina) was a bit hokey, 
but I liked the ending.


#225 of 284 by mary on Sat Aug 11 12:57:02 2001:

What was that ending about?  He obviously hadn't gone back in time
so it must have been forward.  And if forward were they suggesting
the apes built Washington D.C. exactly as humans would have had
humans been dominant?  Almost exactly.


#226 of 284 by scott on Sat Aug 11 13:09:10 2001:

My guess is that the ending is something of a joke.


#227 of 284 by mary on Sat Aug 11 17:49:08 2001:

Which is?


#228 of 284 by scott on Sat Aug 11 22:42:38 2001:

The "back on Earth" part.


#229 of 284 by scott on Sat Aug 11 22:50:26 2001:

Oh, you what the joke itself is?  Dunno.  Maybe it's another reference to the
original?


#230 of 284 by mary on Sat Aug 11 23:19:58 2001:

I think that there must have been a discussion like this somewhere
during the production of "Planet of the Apes".

Director:  Hey, what's with this ending, dude?  Like how does it
           get tied to the rest of the plot?  Did he, like go back
           in time or way forward?  

Producer:  Right, the screenwriter is working on that one, right, dude?

Screenwriter:  Er, sure, but the movie is due in the theaters in about
               two weeks and we're done shooting and I can't seem to make
               any of what we've got bridge the plot to that ending.

Producer:  Yeah, but it's a great ending.  Maybe nobody will ask about it.
           I mean, we've given 'em great costumes and makeup, that should
           be plenty.  

Screenwriter:  Plenty.  Besides, it's a revisualization, right?  Doesn't
               that mean the plot isn't our problem?

Director:  Whatever.  When do I get paid?


#231 of 284 by danr on Sun Aug 12 13:28:42 2001:

I have a different take on it, of course. "Alternate universes" are a 
common idea in science fiction. In going back through the storm, he 
didn't end up in the universe he left, but rather an alternate. 

I may be reading too much into it, but I think the idea is that he 
should have stayed where he was. He leapt from the frying pan into the 
fire.


#232 of 284 by scott on Sun Aug 12 13:34:58 2001:

I think the best comment I've seen is that the ending was a deliberate
attempt to screw up a sequel.


#233 of 284 by mary on Sun Aug 12 17:22:33 2001:

Your alternate universe would have included the same alpha ape and also
the same architects responsible for our universe's national monuments?

Nay, I see this as "if we dazzle 'em with costumes the plot won't
matter".  I'd rather a good plot.


#234 of 284 by danr on Sun Aug 12 22:25:04 2001:

You obviously never read comic books, Mary. In the Superman comics, for 
example, they had a Bizarro universe that every once in a while the 
regular Superman would go and visit. It resembled our universe very 
closely, but with the Bizarro twist. It's in that light, that I 
interpreted the ending.


#235 of 284 by jclock80 on Mon Aug 13 02:30:43 2001:

I seroupsly thouhgt that AI lacked the influence from Kubrick that it could
have had. It was obviously a SPielberg flick. Also, there were several times
they could have ended the movie, but didn't. After a while it just seemed to
drag on and on and on and on. I liked how the aliens were portrated and I
enjoyed the performance by Jude Law. All in all, I wouldn't rate it more than
an "okay".


#236 of 284 by mary on Mon Aug 13 02:46:50 2001:

You are right, Dan, I didn't read comic books.  And I'm glad you 
like the movie.


#237 of 284 by orinoco on Mon Aug 13 16:56:07 2001:

When you get down to it, it's still an illogical ending, but it's the sort
of illogical ending that has a long tradition behind it in sci-fi writing.
Maybe that's why they thought they could get away with it.


#238 of 284 by lelande on Tue Aug 14 21:08:14 2001:

235
i went bald watching AI. somehow, though, i think it's worth suggesting that
the aliens at the end weren't aliens at all, but were the future descendants
of supersupertoys. i'm not suggesting this just to explain the scholastic
british accents on the suckers. the deus ex machina alien/robot says something
about the first one, the original, or some business that suggests they're
descendant beneficiaries of "the genius of the human race", not visitors.


#239 of 284 by scott on Tue Aug 14 22:24:10 2001:

I thought it was obvious that the "aliens" were extremely advanced robots.


#240 of 284 by senna on Tue Aug 14 22:25:27 2001:

That was the implication I was aware of as well.


#241 of 284 by lelande on Tue Aug 14 22:39:29 2001:

several people have told me they thought they were aliens. one person was
vehement about it. when first introduced to them, i thought they were aliens,
too.
i thought AI would've been better if it ended with the camera pulling away
from david (was that his name?) underwater, praying to the blue fairy,
implicatively forever.


#242 of 284 by ashke on Sun Aug 19 02:23:32 2001:

I just got back from the Sneak Preview of "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back"
It was WONDERFUL!  Completely wonderful.  If you liked Clerks, Mallrats,
Chasing Amy, and/or Dogma, you'll love this one.  Picking out and finding the
cameos by former actors and people Kevin Smith just likes is fun too.

I could have stuck around for "The Others" but I didn't want to see it.  They
could have picked a better movie to follow.  


#243 of 284 by krj on Sun Aug 19 04:16:15 2001:

Leslie and I just got back from "The Closet," at the Michigan Theater
for the next few days.  Daniel Autiel is a shlub who is about to lose 
his job; to keep from being fired, he starts to pretend he's gay.
Gerard Depardieu is an overly macho office manager, and 
Thierry Lhermitte starts to manipulate the situation.  (Ack, I haven't
seen Thierry Lhermitte in a film since "My New Partner," 15 years ago.)

arabella and krj give it two thumbs up, and the audience was quite
responsive.  Should appeal to people who miss the imported French films
which used to flow into American theaters.   (Like us.)


#244 of 284 by jep on Mon Aug 20 16:37:15 2001:

I took my 5 year old son and 14 year old niece to see "Princess Diaries" 
yesterday.  I thought it was a real nice movie; a Cinderella story 
comparable to "Pretty Woman".  In fact, they have practically the same 
plot.

I won't be giving much away if I tell you "Princess Diaries" is about an 
unpopular high school girl who finds out by surprise she's the crown 
princess and heir apparent of a European country.  Julie Andrews plays 
her grandmother, the queen, and does a pretty good job.


#245 of 284 by eeyore on Mon Aug 20 18:24:48 2001:

I kinda want to see it.  My roomie said that ht e book was really good.


#246 of 284 by tpryan on Mon Aug 20 22:37:14 2001:

        I thought it would sorta be like "My Fair Lady", but in this
case the pupil becomes the teacher.


#247 of 284 by fitz on Tue Aug 21 10:28:32 2001:

Osmosis Jones - D

Live action and cartoons try for gross-out humor as Bill Murray's immune
system fights an infectious disease.  The organ related advertising humor is
clever and just about the only risible element in the movie.

I paid matinee prices and felt cheated.  It's not worth renting either.  The
only backward compliment is that it isn't seriously offensive.


#248 of 284 by ric on Tue Aug 21 16:27:10 2001:

We almost went to see it, but I didn't really want to, and thankfully American
Pie II wasn't sold out.

I don't expect to see Osmosis Jones even if it comes to the dollar theater.


#249 of 284 by brighn on Tue Aug 21 16:56:55 2001:

Saw "Rush Hour 2" last night. Enjoyable, comparable to the first one (although
I think I liked this one better).


#250 of 284 by mooncat on Tue Aug 21 18:08:48 2001:

I want to go see that movie... maybe one of these days I'll be able to 
afford it... or I'll wait till it's at the Village Theater...


#251 of 284 by richard on Thu Aug 23 00:32:59 2001:

I got Batman-- the Movie on DVD on sale-- now this isnt the one with
those phoney baloney Batmans like Michael Keaton, George Clooney, Val Kilmer
.etc.  This is the movie with the REAL Batman and Robin..Adam West and
Burt Ward!  Yes, that campy sixties tv series Batman, same Bat Time same
Bat channel, was once so popular that they made a big screen movie from
it.  Arch supercriminals The Joker (Caesar Romero), The
Penguin (Burgess Meridith), Catwoman (Lee Merriweather) and The Riddler 
(Frank Gorshin) have united to take over the world.  They have a new
supeweapon that turns humans into dust!  Will the caped crusaders be able
to save the world yet once again?  

This movie is one of those hilarious camp, so bad its good, classics.  A
pure parody of comic books and superheroes.  The DVD comes with an
alternate track of Adam West and Burt Ward doing commentary.  And its in
BatWidescreen with a Batdocumentary.  No great piece of cinematic art but
still a lot of fun


#252 of 284 by scott on Thu Aug 23 01:34:51 2001:

Went and saw "The Fast and the Furious" at the discount theatre.  Not bad,
although pretty much a car subculture version of "Point Break".  Certainly
worth my $2.


#253 of 284 by tpryan on Thu Aug 23 02:29:23 2001:

        I am looking forward to having the two TV Movies, Babylon 5: The
Gathering and Babylon5:In the Beginning come out on DVD in early 
December.


#254 of 284 by gelinas on Thu Aug 23 04:44:41 2001:

Scott, is that the one with the immortal line, "Some days, you just can't
get rid of a bomb"?


#255 of 284 by scott on Thu Aug 23 12:11:30 2001:

I'm not sure why you're asking me instead of Tim, but yes, the original Batman
does have that line.


#256 of 284 by gelinas on Thu Aug 23 15:01:20 2001:

'cause I can't read response headers. :/  

When I scrolled back, the response about the Batman movie was linked
(in my mind, at least) with your name instead of Richard's.


#257 of 284 by ashke on Thu Aug 23 19:42:58 2001:

Oh man, you should DEFINATLY appologize for that one!!

I like Batman the Movie because of the "Shark Repellant" on the utility
belt... :)


#258 of 284 by mary on Sat Aug 25 01:46:35 2001:

"The Deep End" is a tight little psychological thriller told in soft
tones.  I liked it a lot.  Highly recommended.


#259 of 284 by edina on Sun Aug 26 18:26:16 2001:

I can't wait for the 5 disk set of "The Godfather" (I can't wait to see what's
in it all) - it's coming out in November.


#260 of 284 by dbratman on Wed Aug 29 23:58:58 2001:

Godfather #1 was more than enough for me.


#261 of 284 by remmers on Thu Aug 30 14:51:13 2001:

Is it possible for an intelligent, creative director with a
good track record to make an utterly stupid, boring, waste-
of-time film?  Yes!  See John Carpenter's "Ghosts of Mars"
for a current example.


#262 of 284 by tpryan on Thu Aug 30 15:36:08 2001:

        A lot of films will be coming out in the next few months.
The ones that got written and started when a pending writters
strike looked  like it was on the horizon.  Maybe a few directors
and producers we have not heard of before can do a good job with
one of them.  Finding that 1 in a hundred will be hard.


#263 of 284 by lelande on Fri Aug 31 19:16:24 2001:

yo 261
what has john carpenter done to impress you as an intelligent, creative
director?
except 'people under the stairs', that was a jam back in the diz-ay.


#264 of 284 by eeyore on Sat Sep 1 02:32:18 2001:

Illoking forward to "Big Trouble", which is coming out on the 21st, with Tim
Allen, Omar Epps, Stanley Tucci, Jeanenne Garafollo, and a howt of others.


For those of you who are not familiar with the book "Big Trouble", it was the
first fiction book written by Dave Barry.  The book was highly amusing. :)


#265 of 284 by scott on Mon Sep 3 21:53:06 2001:

Saw "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back".  Extremely funny, although a fair amount
of the laughs come from jokes referencing the other movies in the "series"
(Clerks, Mall Rats, Chasing Amy, and Dogma).  However, a lot of other funny
stuff as well, including the expected Star Wars parody bit.  


#266 of 284 by hematite on Mon Sep 3 22:50:41 2001:

Put a whole new meaning on "Good Will Hunting".


#267 of 284 by edina on Tue Sep 4 14:37:37 2001:

Saw "Hannibal" on DVD - Jeeezus!!!  The ending just pissed me off - and the
alternative ending?  Pissed me off more.  I wish they had kept to the book
- far more intriguing.  Although Gary Oldman was awesome.


#268 of 284 by dbratman on Tue Sep 4 16:55:04 2001:

Megan - thanks for the word on "Big Trouble", as I hadn't heard about 
the film.  I'm about 1/3 way through the book and am enjoying it.  
Reminds me of B-grade Donald Westlake, which is pretty damn good.

Anybody seen "Rat Race", and how would that stand as a Donald Westlake 
story?  Or against its clear film model, "It's a Mad(4) World"?


#269 of 284 by gull on Wed Sep 5 14:54:40 2001:

Re #268: Reviews have not been good, but that doesn't always mean 
much...I'd be curious to hear from someone who's seen it, too.


#270 of 284 by ashke on Wed Sep 5 18:08:34 2001:

267:  I'm curious about the DVD alternative ending.  Personally, I agree. 
I think if they had added more of the book into it, like more flashbacks of
Hannibal's childhood, The sister, etc...I thought it would do much better.
It was okay up until then.  The florence stuff was very good.


#271 of 284 by edina on Thu Sep 6 13:47:53 2001:

Let me know if you want the alternate ending - trust me - it was a HUGE let
down.


#272 of 284 by flem on Fri Sep 7 00:06:03 2001:

The short versions (in retrospect, not very):

  Shrek (B)  Am I the only person on the earth who thinks Mike Meyers' 
accent sucks?  On the plus side, I'm happy to see that less stylized, 
more realistic animation is back.

  CTHD (A)  1.  Flying on hidden wires is as much a part of the 
martial arts genre as nameless villains who can't shoot a 
defenseless, still target in plain sight from pointblank range
is part of the action movie genre.  Shrug.  2.  The genius of 
this movie, as far as I'm concerned, lay in how much an integral 
part of the movie the fights were.  Most martial arts movies are 
like porn movies; the "plot" is a thin facade meant to provide some 
feeble explanation for the action sequences.  Not so here; the 
fight sequences continue to tell the story.  There's plot, 
characterization, and even *acting* involved as a part of the 
fights themselves.  I'd be hard put to defend this without going
into detailed specifics, but as at least an amateur student of the
genre, it's the *realism* of the fight sequences that makes this 
movie a standout.  


seamlessly integrated into the movie as a whole.  Consider a typical
fight scene in a Jackie Chan movie.  Hero gets beat up badly for 
a while by enemies who seemingly overmatch him utterly, then somehow
finds within himself untapped reserves of something or other, 
and is then able to ignore his massive injuries and kick ass 



#273 of 284 by flem on Fri Sep 7 00:07:35 2001:

Oops, that final paragraph was from an earlier draft of that response, 
and should be ignored.  :)

And before I forget, I'd like to mention that American Pie II (B-) wins 
this year's Cruelty to Musical Instruments award.  


#274 of 284 by scott on Fri Sep 7 00:27:04 2001:

Hmmm... that accidental last paragraph would an ideal addition to a Hulk Hogan
analysis.  ;)


#275 of 284 by eeyore on Fri Sep 7 04:02:10 2001:

For whomever is reading Big Trouble right now: When you get done, run right
out and buy the book "Gas, Sewer, Electric: THe Public Works Trilogy"...it's
kind of got the same styling and craziness to it.  Author is Matt Ruff....Big
Trouble reminded me of it. :)


#276 of 284 by bhelliom on Fri Sep 7 16:02:51 2001:

Which one came first?


#277 of 284 by brighn on Fri Sep 7 16:17:48 2001:

#272: I don't think it's at all fair to compare CTHD to Jackie Chan. That's
like comparing Copland to Police Academy: Jackie Chan's movie make little
pretense of being anything other than silly (with a few exceptions), while
CTHD was clearly meant to be a serious drama.

(You posted, so you can recant, but you can't tell us to just ignore it. ;}
)


#278 of 284 by flem on Fri Sep 7 17:38:47 2001:

I (didn't actually intend to, but I did) threw out Jackie Chan as an 
example of classic martial arts movie fight scenes.  More or less the 
same can be said about anyone from Bruce Lee to Van Damme to Sho Kosugi 
to...  Martial arts movies have always been about the fights, and the 
plot is largely secondary.  Martial arts movie fights don't usually try 
to depict what would actually happen if the characters depicted got in 
a fight, they depict an idealized fight scene from the fight 
choreographer's imagination.  So instead of "How would Jackie Chan's 
character handle a fight in which he was faced with these particular 
bad guys", the scene that gets choreographed is "What would be the most 
entertaining fight scene to watch", followed closely by "Okay, what 
characters do we have that we can plug into these predefined roles in 
the fight".  The characters' objectives are simple:  incapacitate (or 
kill) your enemies.  What each character does at a given moment in 
time, and whether or not it works, is not determined by the character's 
skill, but by the dramatic formula of the fight.  And so we find that 
it's almost always the case that the hero gets the crap beat out of him 
for most of the fight, not because his enemies actually have the skill 
to do this, but because it's supposedly more dramatic that way. 
  CTHD does all of this quite differently.  Not once in the movie does 
a character, any character, get beat up by someone who shouldn't be 
able to do so.  Instead, in every fight, we can clearly see who is a 
better fighter than who, and in every case I can think of, that 
assessment agrees with what you'd think based on is known of the 
characters in question.  Dramatic tension is provided by giving the 
combatants *different objectives*, other than just beating each other 
up.  Consider the movie's first fight sequence, between Michelle Yeoh's 
character (whose name I can't remember) and the thief, whose identity 
we don't know yet.  Yeoh's character is quickly seen to be the superior 
fighter, yet her task is much more difficult, since the thief would 
clearly rather flee than fight it out.  Also, you notice that Yeoh's 
character seems to be going out of her way not to injure the thief -- 
almost as if she knows something we don't.  :)  Still, even given her 
more difficult objective, she seems to be succeeding (and hence winning 
the fight), until the intervention of a mysterious third party attacks 
from concealment, allowing the thief to flee.  
  The *first fight* has more dramatic complexity and truth to the 
characterization and plot than the last ten martial arts movies I've 
seen put together, and it just gets better from there.  


#279 of 284 by other on Fri Sep 7 18:28:10 2001:

re:275

The title is "Sewer, Gas, Electric" etc.

I would definitely second the recommendation, and supplement it with the 
author's first book, "Fool on the Hill,"  which is an immensely engaging 
modern day fairy tale/fantasy set on the campus of Cornell University in 
Ithaca, New York and in the slums of New York City.


#280 of 284 by eeyore on Fri Sep 7 21:19:13 2001:

Syl: Sewer et al came first by several years.  But Dave Berry is enough of
his own guy that I'm sure that he wasn't trying to copy it.  They both have
the same sort of odd style of writing...kind of a skewed look at reality.


#281 of 284 by senna on Fri Sep 7 21:55:01 2001:

Good explanation, Greg.


#282 of 284 by brighn on Sat Sep 8 04:34:09 2001:

I must have seen a different movie than everyone else. It SAID Crouching Tiger
Hidden Dragon on the box, and when I put the movie in, it had the right
credits and the right actors, but damn if people keep describing a different
movie than what I saw.

I saw, for instance, a thief who couldn't get away by running and so just
started flying. I saw a series of fights that, to me, seemed even more plagued
by the Batman Syndrome than anything in Jackie Chan. And, again, since you
missed the first analogy, compaing CTHD to Jackie Chan is like comparing
Eyes Wide Shut to Ginger Lynn's Night Out... and, in each pair, I know I'd
rather watch the entertaining mindless fluff than the haute couture nonsense
that thinks way too much of itself.

[I just made up "The Batman Syndrome," but I think it's a good term... Batman
and Robin would be trapped by some completely inescapable deathtrap, and
because of some item that for some unexplained reason Batman had decided to
put on his utility belt THAT DAY, they managed to escape AND get the bad guys
who had easily overpowered them just fifteen minutes previous.]


#283 of 284 by fitz on Sat Sep 8 14:23:44 2001:

#272 - I dinna mind Meyers' accent in Shrek:  I thought it a rather decent
imitation of Bob Hoskins.

More perplexing to me was the unctious french accent given Robin Hood.  (I
don't know the actor.)


#284 of 284 by eeyore on Sat Sep 8 15:05:16 2001:

I didn't mind the accents at all.....they kind of made the whole thing more
ridiculous and fun. :)


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