This item is for system problems. If something on Grex isn't working right (line noise on a modem, weird behavior from a program, etc.), this is the place to announce it. Except for security holes. If you find a hole in system security, mail information about it to "staff".291 responses total.
Yup.
This isn't a grex "problem", but there being no other item for discussing grex operations (and this item isn't getting much use): I discovered that CAEN (UM engineering computer network) has the option to read and reply to one's unix box mail via the web. This does not require a client - any browser will do. The functionality is quite limited, though: for example, one cannot use one's addressbook (but can create a new one). The mode has some other awkward properties - but for logging in to read and reply to one's mail when one is travelling and has access only to the web (not telnet) it is quite useful. Could grex implement a similar mode?
This has been discussed before and rejected. The argument against is that grex's primary mission involves getting people into the conferences. A web-based mail client (also POP and IMAP) would remove an incentive (and opportunity) to discover the conferences.
Free web-based email sites tend to be popular, as well...possibly too popular for our connection and hardware to handle. I suspect it's unlikely web-based email would attract enough new paying members to pay for the upgrades that would be necessary.
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This could be a nice feature to offer members.
Except that we don't offer special privileges to members. The only exception is outgoing internet, and that's because of the validation issue.
Oh well, it could make a nice incentive.
as much as I'd like web-based email, I'd rather not start creating incentives, priveleges, etc for members.
I agree.
I brought it up because I'd like to be able to access my e-mail on grex when I am travelling. Telnet capability seems to be disappearing from publically accessed computers (the one I tried was at WMU). I'm not seeking special privileges as a member - just remote e-mail access. At one site I was able to download and install a telnet client on a public computer, but this capability seems also to be becoming rarer: I think more public sites don't want their users running telnet. This doesn't seem "fair". What really is the difference between accessing e-mail on grex via a telnet client vs via a browser? (Especially if the browwser access is as lame as the one on CAEN, at which one cannot access much e-mail functionality - at CAEN, in addition to not having access to the addressbook, one also cannot delete mail from the inbox.)
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Did you install it? I've only done that on Apple computers, for which I am familiar with telnet clients (and installing such).
you could always create a .forward file to hotmail while you are traveling.
That's a thought - I could do the same thing to my CAEN account. Now, why didn't I think of that.....(probably because I've not used the .forward function on grex for a long time, and it slipped from my mind).
Rane - the arguments against allowing web access to email are 1) Grex doesn't want to compete with HotMail, and we're afraid if we offered web-accessable mail, we'd be swamped. 2) Grex would like to be a community, where people come to interact with people, and not just a mail drop. So we require people to log in to get their mail, in the hopes that they will decide to look around and get involved.
Am I a problem in that regard? 8^} Grex hasn't tried (lame) e-mail access by web, so you don't know what the consequences would be.
No, it's nothing personal, Rane. But I think if we just gave access to you, and no one else, that would be a little unfair. :)
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Another solution would be to carry one of those jump drives in your pocket that would have a USB interface and your choice of software on it. Then plug in and run your software on the public machines (install it to the jump drive and that way you take it with you).
re #12, 13, 19: Rane probably missed the fact that you were talking about a Java applet that loads from a web server and runs in the browser. On machines which are locked down to disallow the system telnet app but not so locked down to prevent running applets, Java ssh and telnet client applets are a boon to those of us who prefer our e-mail the old-fashioned way.
re #20: machines where the system telnet app is locked out almost never allow you to install your own applications or run them from removable media.
I just switched over to the Yale Java ssh applet. It gave me a bunch of stuff about "do you want to install stuff on this machine" which I answered yes, but chickened out and said No when it wanted to create a directory. It's running anyway, though I got some wierd "File functions disabled" message. Most Lib machines seem to have Java and JS turned on; there are ample pop-up ads to testify to this. This might be a feasible option, and with password security as a bonus.
I've only run applets from web sites, so I don't quite know what is being talked about. For the dummies here (like me), what does one do to get telnet access with an applet on a public machine?
You go to the web site with the applet and the applet loads and runs on the JVM already installed on the machine and most likely displays in the browser. It's somewhat more complicated than this, but you can think of an applet as a specially restricted type of Java program. Unlike a Java application, applets have some substantial restriction on the types of things that they can do -- they can only open certain kinds of windows, can only open net connections according to certain rules, etc. The trade-off you get in exchange for these restrictions is that an applet is allowed to run in most Java-capable web browsers.
How does the Yale SSH applet get around the Java security model that only allows connections back to the machine that the applet was served from? Are they also doing port forwarding?
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Where is a website that provides an applet for making a telnet connection from a browser?
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What use is that? It won't let you telnet to another host, even if you login to mnet first.
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Rane: cross gave the address http://www.yale.edu/ssh/ in #12.
Unfortuneately, I can't test it from here as "This applet also does not function on Macintosh computers.". However I will make note of it for the next time I seek to use a PC while traveling (after first trying telnet://....). Is there a version somewhere for Macs?
"Due to differences in Java security implementations on the Macintosh, the Yale-signed web-based SSH applet will not work on a Macintosh."
That's what I love about Java. It really lives up to the promise of "write once, run everywhere.."
Should be revised to "Write once, run most places maybe if you're lucky"?
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Re #31: I think that's an excellent idea. (In the mean time, someone who wanted to use it could *probably* just install it in their own public_html directory, I imagine.)
re 33 Who the hell taught you to spell words like "Unfortuneately" ??
What's an extra e among friends?
frieends.
friendes
Just don't leave out the 'r'.
I would agree to put it in my home dir, but I think we are not supposed to upload java applets there.
Oops, meant html dir
Can't recall if there's a policy on applets. They run on the user's browser and hence don't strain Grex's processing resources. A concern with posting graphic images - which *is* against policy - is that they tend to be large and therefore would excessively tax Grex's limited network bandwidth as hundreds or thousands of internet users download them, especially if they are inline images on someone's web page and hence downloaded automatically as people access the web page. Applets on the other hand tend to be an order of magnitude smaller than images and are invoked only at the user's request. So as long as there are no copyright issues with the applet, I don't see that the same rationale applies as for images. Do any other staffers recall if we have a policy on applets?
My image (not inline) was 8K gif (small).
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That was my point, expressed better than I expressed it. There is a 1mb limit on disk usage that one shouldn't exceed.
(Sindi, you (should) know that staff can't be put into the position of saying, "Yes, that one is all right, but no, this one is not." Explanations are never satisfactory. A blanket ban really does work better.)
I was not complaining, just pointing out that images can be small and not waste a lot of bandwidth.
We should put up a telnet and/or ssh applet for connecting to Grex on Grex's web site. It's something I've been meaning to do for years, but haven't gotten around to.
Then, by all means, please do so.
would that allow me to go to the web page, then click on the applet, then come in and do everything I'm used to doing?
That would be the idea, yes..
http://3sp.com/products/sshtools/sshterm/sshterm.php
webpage doesn't work in netscape (on macintosh). applet doesn't work in explorer (on macintosh). last, applet runs ssh2, which grex doesn't have yet.
well, it's not my web site, though i see nothing in it that should be a problem for a macintosh -- i'm reading it with a text mode browser. as for functionality -- oh well, that's the breaks. perhaps mindterm or jta will work better for you. i've got them installed in my web space here <http://www.grex.org/~malymi/>, temporarily. but as grex is a tad slow and the mindterm jar is signed i've also got it installed elsewhere, at <http://malymi.multics.org/mindterm-applet.html>. (since the jta jar is not signed you can only connect back to the server from which it was loaded so you must get it from grex.) original url's for the fearful / security minded / curious are <http://www.isnetworks.net/ssh/index.html> and <http://www.mud.de/se/jta/>.
"Applet failed to load from URL" (on Mac G4 running OS 9.2.2 and Netscape 7).
mindterm: Netscape Communications Corporation -- Java 1.1.5 Type '?' for options. Symantec Java! ByteCode Compiler Copyright (C) 1996-97 Symantec Corporation # Error: The certificate issuer for this server is not recognized by Netscape. The security certificate may or may not be valid. Netscape refuses to connect to this server. (-1987) # jar file: /The Source/Temporary Items/jzip1 # path: /The Source/Temporary Items/jzip1 # Error: loading of signatures has failed (-1) # jar file: /The Source/Temporary Items/jzip1 # path: /~malymi/ # Verifier error mindbright/application/MindTerm.initGUI()V: Cannot find class java/awt/event/WindowListener # Applet exception: class mindbright/application/MindTerm got a security violation: method verification error java.lang.VerifyError: mindbright/application/MindTerm at java.lang.ClassLoader.resolveClass(Compiled Code) at netscape.applet.AppletClassLoader.loadClass1(Compiled Code) * at netscape.applet.AppletClassLoader.loadClass(Compiled Code) at netscape.applet.AppletClassLoader.loadClass(Compiled Code) at netscape.applet.DerivedAppletFrame.run(Compiled Code) at java.lang.Thread.run(Compiled Code)
jta: # Verifier error de/mud/jta/Applet.init()V: Cannot find class java/awt/ event/ActionListener # Applet exception: class de/mud/jta/Applet got a security violation: method verification error java.lang.VerifyError: de/mud/jta/Applet at java.lang.ClassLoader.resolveClass(Compiled Code) at netscape.applet.AppletClassLoader.loadClass1(Compiled Code) * at netscape.applet.AppletClassLoader.loadClass(Compiled Code) at netscape.applet.AppletClassLoader.loadClass(Compiled Code) at netscape.applet.DerivedAppletFrame.run(Compiled Code) at java.lang.Thread.run(Compiled Code)
those are security issues. further checking of the isnetworks archive finds this problem described in an example html file, thusly: [converted to plain text] | Netscape will not accept the signed applet unless you trust the | ISNetworks Root CA. You can install that certificate by clicking here | if this web server has the .cacert MIME type mapped to | application/x-x509-ca-cert or from ISNetworks' site. You'll need to | trust the cert for signing software and then restart Netscape for the | permissions to take effect. [the cacert file is not in fact available from my web space, since the appropriate extension mapping is not set on grex.] similar for msie. and probably any other java enabled browser. it worked for me after a security dialog was presented and i accepted, using mozilla 1.2.1 and sun java 1.4.2_01. worse, i first learned of the mindterm applet elsewhere, and i see they have bleak words to confirm what you've already found: | Note that there are version requirements on the web browsers you can use | with this applet. This applet also does not function on Macintosh | computers. If your web browser is too old to use this applet, download | a newer browser from Netscape or Microsoft. oddly, while the jta applet isn't signed it shouldn't have any security issues as it only connects to the originating site. oh well, this experiment was a dismal failure.
Grex was either down or off the Internet (both WWW and telnet) from yesterday sometime maybe in the late morning until today sometime, maybe in the early afternoon. Could someone please explain what happened? Thanks!
I'm curious, too. Since dialins connected to the terminal server, got the this-may-take-a-while message, and disconnected in approximately 10 seconds, I'd say Grex was likely totally down. Didn't realize it was so long, though.
Grex was down. STeve rebooted it on his way to work this morning.
I again tip my hat to the fixers and keepers of grex
http://3sp.com/products/sshtools/sshterm/sshterm.php werkx on xp home, netscrape 7.x, jave enabled (oops)
I got this while I was in party Received disconnect from 216.93.104.34: Command terminated on signal 9.
Is it true that the fourn dial-in numbers now have to be dialed separately if 3000 is busy? I tried it and it worked, but was that coincidence (all four lines really were busy, and someone ended just as I called the second number)?
Same here. 3000 was busy, 3554 was disconnected, 3451 connected. What happened to the truck hunt, and when was the disconnected phones put into an agora item 3?
We dropped to 4 lines on Wednesday. We're supposed to have a trunk hunt on them - if it's not working, that's something I can call Ameritech about. I'll try to check that.
I just checked, and it looks like Colleen and Tim are correct that there is currently no hunt on the lines. I will call Ameritech about it, but I don't know if I can get any action before Monday. In the meantime, dialing each line (3000, 5041, 3411, 3451) individually works.
When I try to telnet or ssh to Grex, I get 'connection refused'. I'm on dialin right now.
Grex was down for backups. It came back online about one minute before your response. Which means that you wouldn't have been able to dial in, either, a minute (or so ;) earlier.
Heh. What a coincidence!
Is there any progress on getting grex some working faster modems?
I think that getting NextGrex up and running is more important for staff to work on, than trying to upgrade equipment on the old Grex.
I agree, Glenda.
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Are there dialin-quality USB modems? I've found out the hard way that a typical consumer modem does not do well in dial-in service.
Other than reduced power consumption what would be the advantage to spending money on new hardware to replace stuff that's still working and already functional? I'm sure I'm biased here, as USB modems just sound like an awful idea to me, but I can't in any case see the real advantage.
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My incoming mail is now running 75% to 80% spam - and very repetitious spam at that. I dutifully forward the spam to uce. Will this situation improve - that is, will be able to filter spam conveniently?
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I'm currently in the middle of preparing spamassassin to roll out for the ~4000 customers at the ISP I've recently begun working for. I've had good results with it personally so far -- it's remarkably good at catching spam and has a very low false positive rate so far.. Given the size of Grex's user base and all the other demands on the hardware, it might be too resource intensive for Grex to use sitewide, however. I'd say it's worth looking into.
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Re #82: My experience is with US Robotics Sportster modems. They work great for dial-out, but on dial-in seem to have reliability and compatibility problems. We were using one for dial-in service at work, and I had all kinds of problems with it hanging in the middle of the handshaking phase while talking to certian other brands of modem until I replaced it with a Courier. This suggested to me that there are definate design differences between the average consumer modem and ones intended for dial-in service.
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I just joined this item and read about SSH java client. I have been using Mindterm ssh client for some time now. One day I tried telnetting from school and it wouldn't allow it anymore! So I was desperate cus I had to Grex ;) and so I found Mindterm. I get the same errors as Drew gets, it asks me to create a directory, I say no and then it lets me telnet anyway. I was thinking I could install Mindterm on www.grexergallery.net . I'll look into it.
Just now I tried to check my mail. Here is what happened: Ok: !mail /tmp: write failed, file system is full /tmp: No space left on device
(/tmp is down to 85% now.)
My account got splatted for no reason, I would like it back please. asddsa@grex.org's password: Permission denied, please try again. asddsa@grex.org's password: Permission denied, please try again. asddsa@grex.org's password: Permission denied.
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You have a stupid way of proving how stupid you really are.
cross; Give me one good reason why my account was splatted, or the fact that I'm currently banned.
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Polite people don't log in with a different login every time, which makes it more laborious to filter them out. But they already know that.
Given that we have open newuser on this system, is there any practical effect, other than to satisfy a personal sense of spitefulness, of disabling an account?
Yep. Raising the incremental cost of creating BS accounts for one.
I can ssh or telnet to www.grex.org and get a login prompt, but just grex.org gets me nowhere.
I _can_ ssh to grex.org. Both grex.org and www.grex.org get to the same IP address, that of grex.cyberspace.org.
re 99: Loss of personality. It has transformed some people in order
to get their personality account back.
disabiling an account should be total disable. No reading of
the old account by a newuser. Makes one need to again write or upload
scritps, etc.
The staff command "lockuser" depermits the files as well disabling logging in. Locking an account is of varying utility. Some times, it's a "throw-away," and the locked out user never comes back. Other times, the locked out user didn't realise they were causing problems, so their asking for the account back is an opportunity to inform and educate. And still other times, stronger measures are required.
re 97 Your actions can hardly make someone less angry at you.
GreX is dying!
last pid: 18774; load averages: 8.46, 8.03, 7.18
17:27:06 185 processes: 179 sleeping, 5 running, 1 stopped CPU states:
15.0% user, 2.5% nice, 27.5% system, 24.4% idle, 30.5% spin Memory: 234M
available, 162M in use, 72M free, 7520K locked
PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE TIME WCPU CPU COMMAND
16819 debayan1 83 0 2352K 1756K run/3 0:57 35.20% 35.16% lynx284
13284 root 102 19 2832K 2220K run/3 32.0H 23.86% 23.83% perl
18370 zickal 70 0 3380K 3668K run/0 0:14 6.26% 6.25% top
18229 gillu 3 0 2468K 1536K sleep 0:12 8.59% 5.86% lynx284
18767 nobody 57 0 340K 512K run/2 0:01 32.39% 4.69% backtalk
6991 root 1 0 19M 19M sleep 646:12 3.13% 3.12% named
18155 gef 3 0 2196K 320K sleep 0:09 6.27% 2.73% pine
15369 samovolk 1 0 932K 948K sleep 1:18 2.35% 2.34% bash
18775 root 3 0 140K 236K sleep 0:00 30.77% 1.56% idled
17643 mirchi 1 0 2536K 1688K sleep 0:26 1.57% 1.56% lynx284
I wouldn't say that listing is an indication of Grex dying. It looks to me like an indication of most people either on the drive home from work or going out to dinner.
Or maybe cooking and eating dinner.
True, I keep forgetting that it is normal to have a fully working kitchen. One of these days I will have one again.
How does re#106 indicate that the system is dying? Do you think the system is too busy or not busy enough? Or something else?
It's a solemn indication of what to come.
Lunch is on the dinning room table. So is Grex. I tend to Grex at meal time.
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I cannot dial in - grex does not answer. Had to telnet, which works. I don't get no carrier, just a blank screen, when I dial. Please fix.
(I'm guessing a visit to the Pumpkin will be necessary, which I can't do right now.)
I was dialing in on 5041, in case that matters. Thanks for planning the visit eventually. Is there any progress yet on finding some replacement modems that come with instructions?
How many times do we have to tell you that getting NextGrex up and running comes before replacing anything. Why bother replacing obsolete equipment on an obsolete box that is going to be retired in a short while. We are having enough trouble getting staff time to work on NextGrex and you want to pull them away to waste time updating outmoded technology on a box that will only be running for another 3 months or so. Wait until the new box is online an stable. Or upgrade yourself into, at least the late 20th century.
Feel the anger. Be cool, dude. Glenda the Plan9 bunny? ;-P
I asked about modems because I think it was gelinas who had a lead on a set of faster used modems. I forget what happened about this. My modems are faster than what grex is using. And I do think it would be helpful to have more reliably working modems even for this grex. I hate telnetting and a number of grexers are not paying for at home ISP service and can't even telnet during emergencies like this. Can't modems be transferred between computers if they can be made to work on teh current one?
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We don't have a ton of money. But I agree we should look into the cost of 4 new/better modems. The staff was very insistent at one time that the modems all have hardware jumpers to make it impossible for them to dial out, and that was hard to find in new modems.
I thought the Purchase Order was supposed to have been written by last Jan 30 for NextGrex equipment. Has that been done yet?
All the NextGrex equipment was bought by May of this year, and is now running at the Wolter-Mates house.
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I'm not complaining about the volunteer staff, but sheesh, what is taking NextGrex so long to put together?
I asked that question in the coop conference on October 17. That led to cross (who's on the staff) speculating the staff should set a goal of 3 months. He seems to be assuming they have set such a goal, from which I gather they've discussed it, and I hope they've even got consensus on it. There has been no announcement, or discussion other than what cross has said, as far as I've discerned. I lack confidence that cross represents the staff and their commitment to the project.
I saw the same behavior keesan reported in #114 - modem connected and then just sat there. Mine also was on 5041. I can't telnet in, so I tried 3000, and it let me in. Since there was no "this will take a few seconds" message, I suspect the termserver port.
ditto
I think the question I wanted to ask was:
"Is NextGrex coming together at such a pace, that all voluneteers
are needed simultaniously to put it together?".
It is only being put together when the committee can all
be present to work on it?
The hardware is all assembled and working, and has been for some time. The machine is on the internet. Staff can log in remotely and work individually. There's been extensive discussion of NextGrex in the Coop conference. Read Item 11 if you're curious about the status. It's a long item -- recent discussion starts at resp:434.
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Thanks davel, I will try 3000 next time. I had assumed the trunk hunt would at least work.
Wow...the hardware was purchased in May and is not yet "Grex"? At this pace it will be outdated before any of us mortals use it. I'll look at the current discussion in Coop, thanks John. For a computer group, Grex moves r-e-a-l-l-y s--l--o--w.....
I stopped by the Pumpkin, but then realised I didn't have enough information. I could, and did, at least disable the unworking modem, so 5041 will currently ring open. I'll get the information I need and stop back by the Pumpkin later this evening.
I've now put a different modem (and thus terminal port) on 5041.
Please report here if problems continue.
FWIW, there is a note in the Pumpkin indicating the hunt order as of
12 Aug 1997. The numbers from that list that are still active, in order
of appearance, are:
761-3000
761-3411
761-3451
761-5041
The order they hunt in now should be 3000, 5041, 3411, 3451.
The load average was up around 50 a few minutes ago. Haven't seen Grex that slow in a while.
I just dialed in on 3000. First try did not connect, had to redial. I would be willing to wait a bit longer for the next grex if it could including more reliable modems.
Not me. Perhaps it is just the times-of-day when I sign into grex but regularly encounter spikes of "slowness" that bring my conference buffer editing sessions to a crawl. I'm willing to queue up to get into the system but once in, I'd like to be able to interact and respond at some approximation of normal typing speed.
Yo, bro! #3 son is headed to Iraq as the 25th Infantry is headed there and he's part of the 'round out' from the NG. Call mom on account she's pissed as she thought he'd only been on alert for N. Korea. You guys don't call enough, and what, you never heard of email or what? Hmm, May was it. Dual motherboard with SATA is pretty common now. Are we suggesting that 'new' hardware is obsolete and more expensive before it was even deployed?
/emote salutes son #3! good luck and godspeed!
/d is full /dev/sd7g 1971009 1773872 37 100% /d
Thanks for the report; I'm working on it.
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I made some progress, but I have to stop now. /d is at about 98%.
Minor nagging problem: The logo for the Co-op conference home page in Backtalk has been broken for a while now.
re 145 Thanks!
Despite the fact that a number of good, full-speed-capable modems were just freed up, at least one of the modems near the top of the trunk hunt is stuck at the miserable transfer speed of perhaps 610 bytes/sec when Grex can do at least 1300.
I got disconnected when I dialed 5041, but that happens often, especially when writing emails with Pine. At this point I would choose faster and more reliable modems over getting newgrex online sooner.
Why would modem replacement take more than taking the two disconnected and replaceing the first two in the trunk hunt? THEN IF problem persists. Swap those two for the last two. Is that more than a 22 minute visit at the pumpkin?
There has already been lots of modem swapping and half of the time it just makes things worse. These modems are not reliable.
So far as I know, there has been no swapping of modems in recent memory. The next time I'm out, I'll swap in a couple of the recently retired modems.
Scott swapped modems not too long ago and what he put in was worse, I don't recall exactly how.
nto a happy sight ... df Filesystem kbytes used avail capacity Mounted on /dev/sd0a 109823 76941 21900 78% / /dev/sd0d 156783 137446 3659 97% /usr /dev/sd6h 1971009 1804600 0 102% /usr/local /dev/sd0e 706783 354791 281314 56% /bbs /dev/sd0f 471183 450069 0 106% /x /dev/sd6g 1969885 1219140 553757 69% /var /dev/sd3h 1944365 1222411 527518 70% /var/spool/mail /dev/sd2a 31023 17781 10140 64% /rootbak /dev/sd2d 31023 16038 11883 57% /suidbin /dev/sd2f 62863 11755 44822 21% /tmp /dev/sd2h 842574 686687 71630 91% /s /dev/sd4a 1944365 1577694 172235 90% /c /dev/sd1c 1944365 1059672 690257 61% /a /dev/sd7g 1971009 1766520 7389 100% /d /dev/sd2e 699223 455142 174159 72% /oldvar /dev/sd0h 284215 252695 3099 99% /oldbbs
That's the second time recently that /d filled, isn't it?
argh. I'd be more concerned about /usr/local "running at" 102%. Filesystems aren't Hollywood nuclear submarine or starship warp engines, and don't run well over capacity... (Not to mention /x at 106%...
It's more than the second time, I think. Yes, filesystesm can run at more than 100%; the OS keeps a cushion available.
(Only root can allocate disk blocks once 100% is exceeded. So no, things mostly don't run well at over 100%, but /x & most likely /usr/local may not notice the problem until they actually run out.)
As the last of four dial-in users this morning, I got a decently fast connection. This might be helpful to whoever is doing the debugging.
Ah. After gelinas 2cents I suspected that "100%" actually meant "100% of the space not reserved to root." QED.
It's tricky because it's OS-dependent. Most Linux distributions report percentages of the total disk space. BSD and SunOS report percentages of the disk space available to users. So it's possible to fill a BSD file system over 100% but not a Linux one.
Hmm. Does POSIX have anything to say on this?
I've gotten two different takes on full filesystems under Linux. It seems to matter which df I use (I have three of them: one from my distribution, one from busybox, and one from asmutils).
Hmm. What's the behaviour from your distro's version? I'd consider that standard (for Linux).
In at least one version of df it's a compile-time flag, so you can have it either way.
www.cyberspace.org is not loading for me or for two other party users in widely separated locations.
It times out for me, too.
I swapped out the first two modems (3000 and 5041) for two recently removed from service. I also updated the phones script. It looks like whatever was bothering httpd has now been fixed.
/x is not a user partition at all, so its being over 100% is of no consequence.
Speed on the modems is vastly improved. Thanks to gelinas.
Glad it helped. Wish I knew which of the two removed from service was bad.
I have been a supporter of Grex in the past by having several small non-profit organizations with which I have been associated join Grex and use it at least as their website and board mail reflector. The latter, however, has become untenable because of spam. There is nearly ten times more spam being distributed to the boards than board correspondence. Is there any hope of soon having access to a filter here for spam? I will probably move an organization off Grex (and thereby cancel membership) unless there is some recourse against this avalanche of junk e-mail.
} #233 of 233: by Rane Curl (rcurl) on Fri, Nov 21, 2003 (11:18): } Could Grex use the Spamhaus Block List (SBL) to block spam? See } http://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/howtouse.html
(Gag...I did it again - entered that item in oldagora. I always scan oldagora before agora, and have been forgetting where I am.... thanks Joe, for bringing it over.)
From the previous agora: } #234 of 234: by Joshua (jhudson) on Tue, Nov 25, 2003 (10:33): } We will have to put a kludge in it as cyberspace.org sometimes ends } up on various spamblock lists. Might be worth considering though.
Help! Jan Wolter's test backtalk site is nonexistant!
Help! Jim Daloonik's forebrain is nonexistant!
HAHAHAHAHAHA-SPLONK@! <lmao>
AHAHANH DCAT"S FORESKIN IS NONEXISTANT! AHAHAHaha GOOD ONE< OTHER
AHAHAHAHAH DCAT"S GOT SOME FORESHORTENING IN HIS DICK AHAHAHAHA () WHAT A SPANKER>
AHAHAHa
FOAD
TOAD! AHAHAha
SMOTHER MY MOTHER, OTHER! AHAHAHAA
AHAHAHA!
BUNCHA _ HOOLIGANS THESE GUYS root Operator Thu Nov 20 18:42:59 EST 2003 woot STeve Andre's root Thu Nov 20 18:42:59 EST 2003 gcoot Greg Cronau's root Thu Nov 20 18:42:59 EST 2003 noot Scott Helmke's Root Thu Nov 20 18:42:59 EST 2003 hoot Rob Henderson's Root Thu Nov 20 18:42:59 EST 2003 zoot Valerie Mates's root Thu Nov 20 18:42:59 EST 2003 joot John Remmers' root Thu Nov 20 18:42:59 EST 2003 loot Mike O'Leary's root Thu Nov 20 18:42:59 EST 2003 moot Mic's Root Thu Nov 20 18:42:59 EST 2003 foot Marcus Watt's Root Thu Nov 20 18:42:59 EST 2003 soot Steve Weiss's Root Thu Nov 20 18:42:59 EST 2003 coot Jan Wolter's Root Thu Nov 20 18:42:59 EST 2003 scoot Steve Gibbard's Root Thu Nov 20 18:42:59 EST 2003 doot Daniel Gryniewicz's Root Thu Nov 20 18:42:59 EST 2003 koot Jeff Kaplan's Root Thu Nov 20 18:42:59 EST 2003
w00t
I was getting this earlier when logging in with ssh: Server refused to allocate pty Warning: no access to tty; thus no job control in this shell... mesg: I/O stream 2 improperly redirected stty: TCGETS: Operation not supported on socket stty: standard input: Operation not supported on socket stty: standard input: Operation not supported on socket mesg: I/O stream 2 improperly redirected There were approximately 39 people on at the time.
Yeah, that just happens now and then. Often when Grex is heavily loaded.
You'll get 'refused to allocate pty' any time there's a telnet queue. Will NextGrex still be restricted this way, or will we be ditching the telnet queue when we move?
I thought the telnet queue starts much higher than around 39 users. Isn't it around 80?
Seventy-two. However, there seem to be certain circumstances that will create a queue with fewer than seventy users logged on.
GreX IS THE DEVIL!!! bash-2.05$ uptime 11:15pm up 49 days, 13:13, 42 users, load average: 6.66, 5.90, 5.60
HEAL!
6.66, 1/100th of the beast?
It's the closest we could get.
Grex: 99% less evil than AOL.
The simulator on the GE 635 for the new Multics machine (codenamed the 636) ws called 6.36, because it ran at a tenth the speed of the eventual 645.
Shouldn't it, then, have been the 63.6 (or perhaps 64.5)?
re resp:197: You aren't being very kind to Grex.
Surely satanic-looking load average figures don't lie, jep..
Re: #199. Good point.
This morning, we were having some network problems, apparently between
ge-3-4.a00.chcgil07.us.ce.verio.net
and
428.at-0-1-0.rtr0.chcg1.il.voyager.net
I don't know what caused them, but lots of people were summarily cut off.
It appeared like the routing was flapping between a good and bad interface somewhere between these two. One moment, connectivity two grex's network was fine. The next, routing just stopped cold at the interface between the two networks.
From the previous agora: } Response 235 (235) Rane Curl (rcurl) Sat, Dec 6, 2003 (09:12) 4 lines: } } I'm telnetting in from Madeira Beach FL. I cannot connect to Grex } directly as I get a "not responding" response, but I have telnetted into } CAEN, and then telnetted over from there. Why won't Grex respond directly? I don't know why the connection would be timing out. I'd run traceroute from the originating machine to grex, to see where the connection failed.
Unfortuntely, I can't. I am connected only with PPP to an ISP, so don't have a local account from which to issue traceroute.
Your machine doesn't have a traceroute? What kind of machine is it? If it can establish a PPP connection, you should be able to run network utilities on it.
has grex's idle daemon suffered a sneak attack?
ah, false alarm.
scratch one bug report.
I'm relieved.
Re #207: an Apple Powerbook 145B - I do have on it clients for Turbogopher and Anarchie - but not traceroute. Maybe I can find one on the web (with Netscape 2.0)?
Mommy!!! 27202 darkyy 88 0 252K 476K run/3 0:11 19.95% 19.92% tar 27500 naftee 88 0 3380K 3688K run/2 0:07 19.20% 16.41% top 13284 root 102 19 2880K 2064K run/3 348.8H 16.43% 16.41% perl 26183 root 1 0 19M 18M sleep 530:25 10.95% 10.94% named load averages going down now.
Sounds like MacOS 9. Look for WhatRoute, Rane. It's available from
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~bryanc/
Interestingly, he has released a MacOS X version, too.
Mac OS 7.1. I did some web creeping for traceroute but have not yet found one for this OS. (This machine tops out for OS 7.6 - but at least that supports java.)
7.6 is still MacTCP, isn't it?
/d is 100% full again right now.
Thanks for the reminder.
Yes, still MacTCP 2.0.6.
Looks like MacTCPWatcher might work:
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/mac/4191
The new AMiga OS is going to use Am iga-specific tcp-ip stack and configuration tools. Aargh.
You didn't really expect it to use something normal, did you? A friend of mine was trying out a version of that. He was less than amused when he found out it supports only one specific ethernet card. If it's not a PCI NE2000 clone, forget it.
On the bright side, PCI NE2000 clones are about as cheap and as common as you can possibly get.
(People are still writing OS's for the Amiga?)
Re 222: In fact, there's a joke in there somewhere. "I was at the computer store, and the sales guy was supposed to give me $7.12 in change. He was out of dimes, but instead of 2 nickels I grudgingly accepted an NE2000 clone."
Shouldn't you have gotten a dozen of them for your dime?
<chuckle> True. I do think it's ironic that we're still using PCI clones of one of the worst ethernet card designs ever. On the other hand, CPUs are so fast now that hardware efficiency hardly matters for such things. I use 'em and they work great. :>
I found the MacTCPWatcher website and downloaded the utility. However the Trace option was grayed out and the documentation declares " Note that Traceroute is an OT only function. You cannot use it under MacTCP. (The button greys out under MacTCP.)" I guess it should be called MacOpenTransportWatcher.) Anyway, PING works, but returns no responses from cyberspace.org.
Shoot. We need traceroute, to find out where the packets are dropping.
Can we run it in the other direction? Trace from Grex to Rane's machine, provided he can identify its IP?
Last I heard, only staff could run traceroute. If we know when he is online, and the IP address, we can give it a try.
Re: #226: We're still using clones and kludged upgrades of one of the worst-designed CPUs ever, too. There are rumours that IBM was going to go for the MC68000 for the original PC design, but rejected it on the grounds that it was too expensive and there weren't many expansion cards available for it... If only...!
Yellow Alert: In the next few weeks, UM ITD and CAEN will stop allowing telnet and FTP to and from there. Sometimes I try to telent over to grex from school. The few times I've tried SSH, I get cut off because Grex is using some funny version. Until now I didn't care; telnet and FTP worked. Soon they won't and I wont be able to get to Grex during the day. Can someone help me figure outhow to check email and move files when telent and FTP are forbidden?
Hmm. My machine's version of SSH is too new to be compatible with Grex, so I told it to use rlogin (whatever that is) and I've had no difficulty establishing or maintaining a connection using the SSH utility since. I'm not sure if that translates, but perhaps someone with more knowledge than I about these things can use it to help you.
Re #232: Grex is running an old version of SSH. What client are you trying to use to connect? If you have the option, make sure you tell it to use SSH protocol version 1 instead of version 2. rlogin is non-encrypted, so it's not as good as SSH but it's no worse than telnet. If you get SSH working you can use SCP to copy files to and from Grex, assuming you can find a client. (Under UNIX-ish operating systems the 'scp' command should work.) I don't know of a good SCP client for Windows that works on Grex. Normally I use WinSCP, but it doesn't seem to work with Grex...I get this error: Error listing directory "/a/g/u/gull". Unexpected directory listing line "drwxr-xr-x 5 gull 2560 Dec 8 18:00 .". Operation aborted Maybe Grex should upgrade to a newer version of SSH.
This response has been erased.
I assume that will happen some time in the next decade, when NextGrex comes online. ;>
I've just logged in to grex from ITCS' login servers (login.itd.umich.edu), using the version of ssh installed there. Because my login id on both systems is the same (but the passwords aren't), I created a new id to test with; that one also worked from login.itd I did get the warning about the server lying about its key size, but it still worked. If you are not using login.itd, you may need to talk to the administrators of the system you are using.
I too get the warning about the server lying about its key but it's not always . ..sometimes I get it and sometimes I don't.
re #232: if "ssh grex.org" doesn't work because the host you're trying from wants to talk a newer version of the ssh protocol, you might try "ssh1 grex.org". Some machines support an "ssh1" command for backwards compatibility.
For windows, try putty and psftp to connect to grex. To find them, try this http://www.google.com/search?q=putty+download
Right, putty works great, and it has a pscp client (though you download that separately). Colleen - I happen to be in the UM library at the moment, and I couldn't ssh directly to Grex either (using SSH Secure Shell, version 3.2.3). It says it's downgrading to version 1 to connect to Grex, but then it craps out anyway. However, I am able to use Secure Shell to connect to login.itd.umich.edu, and then from there type "ssh -l aruba cyberspace.org", which connects me to Grex just fine. Kinda clunky, bt it does work.
Hmm... which OS are the Library machines running?
I've never been able to get putty to work with Grex. Might be a configuration issue.
Re #s 227-230: I will probably be on too irregularly from Florida - and only until tomorrow....so we'll probably not be able to trace this problem.... oh well, I have been able to get on these past few days.
I used to use putty with Grex all the time. Worked fine, I used ssh from an NT 4.0 box.
Re #243: I assume you can get other ssh clients to connect to Grex in the same environment? I use PuTTY to connect to Grex also. Configuration could be the problem. I had to fiddle with the "ssh" settings a bit.
I can confirm that PuTY does indeed work with Windows, (XP in my case)
PuTTy works. Except that the motd would scroll by too fast. Annoying
Re #242: I didn't check the OS, but it looked like XP to me. I also use Putty to SSH to Grex, and it works well.
the lab machines in the library (which are lab machines that happen to be in the library, not library machines that happen to be in a lab, i.e., ITD deals with them and libstaff don't know a thing about them (what, me, former UGL staff?)) run Windows XP and Mac OS X(.2, i *think*), as do all other ITD labs on campus. most library workstations run OS X, but some may be stuck on OS 9. i've never had a problem ssh'ing to grex from Pitt's unix server.
Re resp:248: You can always read it with the motd command. motd | more if you want it to pause after each screenful.
Don't always remember to. Another annoying thing. I use Dos telnet to telnet into grex from home. When I read agora, at the beginning of each item it says "Warning: Terminal cannot scroll back Press <Return>". This started happenning recently. I must have changes something, but I'm not sure what.
This response has been erased.
Re #246: Haven't tested others. It's a really irritating problem, but it's
a paging problem, so Tod's probably right.
Re #244 - not being able to telnet directly to Grex from Florida: I should have mentioned that I have also been unable to telnet directly to some of the CAEN servers of the form xxxxx.engin.umich.edu or to login.itd.umich.edu. I am on now by telneting to xxxx = login but xxxx = maize or blue do not work. Yesterday xxxx = login would not work but = maize would. blue hasn't worked since I've been here.Does this information suggest anything about the cause of the problem?
This response has been erased.
It sounds more and more like a routing problem from the Florida end, Rane.
I'm back now and my one-week account in Florida is history, so I won't be able to follow up on this. But at least I was able to connect, even if not directly. (It's is nice being back on a fast machine with a 56K modem now....)
"A Fast machine with a 56K modem"? Wow, that really puts things into perspective. I'm on 56K right now, and it sure as hell doesn't feel fast. Although that might havew something to do with the fact that the ISP keeps disconnecting me this morning. I don't have any leverage over the choice of ISP here, but anyone in or cdoming to the UK take note; Freeserve might just as well be Crap-no-serve.
AHAHAHAH< GOOD WORDPLAY< TWENEX
hai jana annaaaa
hello ra phani how are you
happy
Grex seems super fast this morning. Is this the new grex? My automated login and password script could not keep up and somehow my password got entered instead of my login (which I know is backwards from how a fast grex should behave). I have been unable to get mail from a mail list because grex accepts it too slowly and it all bounces - should I try signing up for a fifth time now? Even Pine was fast this morning.
No, we are not on new hardware. I don't know why it might be faster than usual this morning.
The new GreX...will appear..
Re #232: I looked on CAEN for info on Telnet being discontinued, but didn't find it. Where is there more information? I found and installed MacSSH on this (Mac G4) machine and could ssh to a CAEN server, but not to Grex. I presume this is the problem that cmcgee referred to. Is there some configuration that should work?
Does MacSSH have an option to choose what SSH protocol to use? Grex only supports protocol version 1, and some programs default to version 2.
MacSSH only supports SSH2. The FAQ on the website datails this. NiftyTelnet 1.1 SSH r3 supports only SSH1. Google for the download link. NiftyTelnet is also mirored all over the net.
MacSSH also supports rlogin, rsh, rexec, and raw TCP: any of those protocols compatible with Grex?
rlogin should work.
re: 267 yes. I can get here with SSH, but then get turned away because of something funny about the Grex version.
The voters command is broken. (Unlike the members command, it does not understand about continuation lines in the group file.)
It's probably the same script as the 'member' command which was recently removed. Thank you for reporting the problem.
Re #271: it does: I am now connected via rlogin under MacSSH. However rlogin does not provide ssh type security.
Oh yes - but now the new problem is that the default seems to be white text on a black background - I like it the other way around, but haven't yet found a way in MacSSH to set that. I seem to have to select it on each login under the Session menu. That will be a pain.
I tried, unsuccessfully, to fix the 'voters' command, so I've move it out of the way.
Re #273, 277: type "members -v | fmt" for a list of voters.
And "members -h" for a list of command options. (Discovered the -h by trial & error. Can't find documentation or source for "members" -- which appears to be a compiled C program -- anywhere on line.) I wonder who wrote it.
I wrote it, to STeve's specifications, back in 1995. The source is in ~aruba/src/members.
Further to my problems of telnetting to Grex and CAEN from Florida, I have been discussing it with CAEN Service & Support, and there is a modification of what has been said about CAEN shifting to SSH in January. Here is a remark from CAEN: "Upon further inspection, it appears that our Linux servers are not allowing Telnet connections. I am investigating why this is, but for now, try connecting to loginsun.engin.umich.edu. This routes you directly to our main Sun servers. Of course, as I said, SSH should cause you no problems. "Also, please know that this has no relation to login.itd.umich.edu or cyberspace.org, but I believe login.itd.umich.edu may be blocking Telnet as well." So the mystery of being unable to telnet from FL to Grex remains.
(Telnet will work on login.itd until January 5, 2004.)
bruce died.
I did?
Yup.
Sure did.
System Problem: Agora has not rolled over.
Welcome to life in the fast lane, twenex.
Oh, ha ha.
Or in the grex lane ...
You have several choices: