Grex Agora47 Conference

Item 24: President Bush suppresses peaceful dissent.

Entered by rcurl on Thu Sep 25 06:25:39 2003:

Secret Service Ordered Local Police to Restrict Anti-Bush Protesters at
Rallies, ACLU Charges in Unprecedented Nationwide Lawsuit 

http://www.aclu.org/FreeSpeech/FreeSpeech.cfm?ID=13699&c=86
33 responses total.

#1 of 33 by twenex on Thu Sep 25 12:21:11 2003:

This is a surprise? C'mon,*someboydy* must be able to find a way to impeach
that dratted turd.


#2 of 33 by sj2 on Thu Sep 25 12:26:32 2003:

Enjoy while it lasts!!


#3 of 33 by fitz on Thu Sep 25 13:39:00 2003:

I read the complaint against the philadelphia police and the secret service:
Learn something everyday.  The Secret Service is apparently not part of the
Department of Treasury any longer, but a function of Homeland Security.

One part of the ACLU blurb differs from the complaint in a minor way:  The
ACLU release stated that protestors were moved behind police vans at one
protest.  The complaint alleges that the protestors were herded to a remote
corner and just before the Presidential motorcade passed near, the police vans
were moved in front of the protesters.

In one way, the Secret Service does not discriminate.  The complaint also
notes that pro-Bush demonstrators have been relocated as well as the anti-Bush
demonstrators.  The goal seems to be to have a neutral, submissive audience.

I think that the complaint's weakness will be the obvious concerted effort
of the demonstrators to compete for space.  The demands to excercise the right
to free speech at a certain time and play and by an organized group is
functionally equivalent to the demand to assemble.  Certainly, this is a right
of the people too, but it is not unconditional.  Municipalities, for example,
issue parade permits.  Had the the complaint been made by many individuals,
with no affiliations and with no distinction (apart from the political) from
others, the suit would have been stronger.

If I were in ACORN or NOW, I would suggest lining the route without flags,
buttons or signs and giving Bush the bird.  I guess that it terribly
inarticulate and vague thereby, but it is protest.  Hooray!  How long before
we go back to the police riots?


#4 of 33 by jp2 on Thu Sep 25 13:50:29 2003:

This response has been erased.



#5 of 33 by mary on Thu Sep 25 14:18:16 2003:

When it comes to Presidental events, Free Speech is up against the 
need for very tight security.  I'm a huge Free Speech advocate but 
I see how the President is at great risk at the moment, much of 
which is his fault, but that doesn't matter.

Mostly I want to see Bush be able to finish his term as Cheney
would be even scarier.  Sounds impossible, but true.


#6 of 33 by jep on Thu Sep 25 15:17:50 2003:

Was it President McKinley who commented that he would never agree to be 
president if he couldn't walk down the street unescorted and shake the 
hands of people?  Whoever it was, he lived in a different time than we 
do now.  Or thought he did... McKinley was assassinated by someone in a 
crowd in which he was meeting people.


#7 of 33 by twenex on Thu Sep 25 15:24:37 2003:

What Mary said.


#8 of 33 by rcurl on Thu Sep 25 18:08:10 2003:

Re #5: the need for security is not at issue here. The point is that the
Secret Service has allowed people with pro-Bush signs, or no signs at all,
to be seen, while shunting those with anti-Bush signs off to hidden
"protest areas". Terrorists would, of course, carry a pro-Bush sign over
their esplosives belt (or whatever).

A judge in Philadelphia has issued a restraining order requiring the
Secret Service to allow government critics to demonstrate peacefully as
close as supporters. That is all that is being asked. Now we have to
see if Bush will dare to exclude the public entirely. 



#9 of 33 by tod on Fri Sep 26 20:55:59 2003:

This response has been erased.



#10 of 33 by i on Sat Sep 27 17:12:08 2003:

Sounds like what the protesters want is media attention, and they're busy
chasing Bush trying to distract the reporters who are busy chasing Bush,
hoping to pick up some scraps of on-air seconds & column-inches for them-
selves. 

However well or poorly handled, the Secret Service wants to keep crowds
of folks who don't like Bush (where a disturbed & violent fringie or two
might feel at home) away.  Crowds of supporters are less dangerous, and
it takes (a) more determined & able violent fringie(s) to successfully
operate from within them.

Given what they're really after, why don't the protesters just go to the
source?  It's easy - forget the logistics of Bush-chasing, there are
fixed & unprotected TV stations, newspaper offices, etc. in every city.
The Secret Service won't lift a finger if someone drapes a big banner
saying "U.S. Dept. of Lies" over the nice "WTV - Channel 2" sign out in
front.  Picketing the grocery store putting the biggest full-color flyer
($$advertising revenue$$) in that newspaper you consider biased is (quite
literally) child's play.  


#11 of 33 by dah on Sat Sep 27 19:11:01 2003:

We don't need millitants.


#12 of 33 by rcurl on Sun Sep 28 05:55:39 2003:

You mean, like Bush, Cheney, Rumsfelt, Rice, Wolfowitz, et al? 



#13 of 33 by dah on Thu Oct 9 02:04:00 2003:

They're fighting for peace, rcurl.  While that seems paradoxic, it's not; but
liberals don't seem to be able to comprehend dual-layered logics.


#14 of 33 by rcurl on Thu Oct 9 06:14:19 2003:

They were fighting for peace with war...a nice bit of 'dual-layered logics'.
Are they something like "double dealings"?


#15 of 33 by dah on Thu Oct 9 12:49:38 2003:

No, it's something like this:  Our country needs to stop Iraq from killing
our people and aiding terror, and the only way to do that is to invade it.
Same with Afghanistan.  We don't start wars; we stop countries from killing
our people.


#16 of 33 by gull on Thu Oct 9 13:47:59 2003:

I'd follow that logic if there were any evidence Iraq had been killing
our people and aiding terror.  I'm with you when it comes to
Afghanistan, but by your logic our next target should have been Saudi
Arabia, not Iraq.


#17 of 33 by happyboy on Thu Oct 9 16:49:50 2003:

or phillip morris.


#18 of 33 by dah on Thu Oct 9 18:31:16 2003:

Saudi Arabia is our pal, gull.  We stick by our pals.


#19 of 33 by rcurl on Fri Oct 10 00:17:20 2003:

They better be our pal - we pay them enough. They should stay bought.


#20 of 33 by gull on Fri Oct 10 13:17:43 2003:

Yeah.  Changing your mind after you've been bought is bad Texas ethics.


#21 of 33 by murph on Sat Oct 11 13:51:38 2003:

At the very least, we ought to be de-palling Saudi Arabia.  Seems like we've
got plenty of reason *not* to be their pals by this point.


#22 of 33 by gelinas on Sat Oct 11 14:15:58 2003:

(When I think of Saudi Arabia, I'm reminded of that old saw, "Keep your
friends close, and your enemies closer.")


#23 of 33 by tod on Sat Oct 11 19:17:34 2003:

This response has been erased.



#24 of 33 by happyboy on Sun Oct 12 00:09:19 2003:

doesn't he manage the mister donut in dearborn?


#25 of 33 by tsty on Sun Oct 12 08:42:07 2003:

 .. that was  ralph fawd ...


#26 of 33 by happyboy on Sun Oct 12 19:16:14 2003:

oopsie doopsie, my bad.


#27 of 33 by zeigen on Wed Oct 15 05:02:33 2003:

Saudi Arabia is an example of an enemy not worth keeping close, because we
only make more enemies by remaining friends with them. Wasn't Bin Ladin's
biggest complaint against the U.S. our presense in Saudi Arabia. I know we
used to have a half a million troops there, but I am not sure of the current
figure. Anyone know it off the top of their head?


#28 of 33 by aruba on Wed Oct 15 13:09:50 2003:

It's soon to be 0, I believe.


#29 of 33 by gull on Wed Oct 15 13:29:30 2003:

I don't know if that's true, but there does seem to be a trend towards
deemphasizing our bases in Saudi Arabia and building new ones in places
like Qatar.  I also wouldn't be surprised to see us maintain a permanent
base in Iraq.


#30 of 33 by tod on Wed Oct 15 16:24:19 2003:

This response has been erased.



#31 of 33 by hj56 on Sat Oct 25 09:15:20 2003:

Anyway,I love peace.I anticipate living in a world there is no war.
Peace,peace, no war,no war.
Let us pray for this.


#32 of 33 by happyboy on Sun Oct 26 18:28:52 2003:

i do every day.


#33 of 33 by willcome on Thu Nov 27 07:35:28 2003:

WHORES< THAT IS!

(ahaha).


There are no more items selected.

You have several choices: