Grex Agora47 Conference

Item 211: vacuum cleaner repair?

Entered by jep on Sun Dec 7 00:18:35 2003:

I have a moderately old Hoover upright vacuum cleaner.  It hasn't been 
working well at all, I decided today to try to deal with it, and in 
the process, discovered it's possible for an Ordinary Person to 
replace the belt that makes the agitator brush go around.  (I never 
knew.)

When I started the vacuum again, the belt promptly broke.  
Investigating further, I believe the agitator brush itself needs to be 
replaced.

My vacuum's manual is on-line in PDF format, and so I was able to find 
the part number for the agitator brush.  (48414-032 or -033).  
However, Hoover doesn't make it any more.  It's not listed on the WWW 
anywhere.  I even tried eBay but no luck.

There are a lot of similar-sounding agitator brush part numbers.  It's 
possible another would work fine.  But I don't know how I would be 
able to tell from an on-line catalog listing.

Anyone have experience fixing vacuums?  Are there stores in the area 
that sell such things as agitator brushes, and to which I could take 
my old brush and get them to confirm I am getting the right 
replacement?
46 responses total.

#1 of 46 by gelinas on Sun Dec 7 01:33:02 2003:

The name that comes immediately to mind is Ann Arbor Vacuum, on Packard
near Carpenter.  There is also a vacuum-repair place on Jackson, east of
Zeeb, next to the Viking Sewing Center.  I've never done business with
either of them, though.


#2 of 46 by jep on Sun Dec 7 02:45:54 2003:

Thanks!  I'll call them.


#3 of 46 by keesan on Sun Dec 7 02:47:28 2003:

Jim has fixed dozens of curbside vacuum cleaners.  It may have long threads
wound around the bushings (ends of the roller) that prevent it from turning
and make the belts break.  Make sure it turns freely by hand before putting
on another belt.  Remove it and clean it first.   You might need a saw blade
to cut the threads.  We will pick up the next vacuum cleaner we see while out
walking if you like.  The last order got filled in 24 hours.  Or bring it by
along with the printer.  Maybe in two weeks.  

How do I link this to DIY?  I keep forgetting.

Jim says why would you want to use a vacuum repair place.  Don't they charge
you money? That's why god made grex, so you could learn to do it yourself.


#4 of 46 by jep on Sun Dec 7 02:59:03 2003:

Sindi, I thought of you almost immediately.  (-:  I am not sure I want 
to wait two weeks before I vacuum my floor, though, with Christmas 
coming up so soon.  Maybe I can get by with my unpowered push sweeper.

There were indeed threads around one end of the roller, and much 
collected debris.  I cleaned it out, and used some graphite lubricant 
I had available, and tested the brush.  It spun briefly and then stuck 
again.  I think it has broken the 2nd belt by now.  I'm convinced the 
brush and roller cannot be fixed, but the vacuum should be fine if I 
can get a replacement.

I'm not very mechanical, so I take on projects like this rather 
reluctantly.  However, vacuums are pretty simple machines; simpler 
than a bicycle for example.  Simpler than a computer from an end-user 
repair point of view.  I know a lot about mine at this point and it 
didn't take me long at all.

How necessary is the brush, anyway?  Surely the vacuum will do *some* 
cleaning if used without that part working.


#5 of 46 by gelinas on Sun Dec 7 04:03:06 2003:

Some but probably not enough.  The roller gets the . . . stuff . . . moving
for the air current to pick up.


#6 of 46 by keesan on Sun Dec 7 15:04:06 2003:

The belt goes between the motor and the roller and transmits the force from
the motor to the roller.  You might need to take off the belt in order to test
whether the roller spins freely.  Did you take out the roller before cleaning
it?  It should come out easily if it is not wrapped in threads, or cut the
threads if it is.  The vacuum cleaner will vacuum without a belt but it won't
sweep things up to the surface of the rug.  You can use a regular broom to
do that first.  Canister vacuum cleaners often don't have a roller (beater
bar) and rely on the brush built into the tool, which you use by rubbing it
harder against the rug.  

We will keep an eye out for a curbside vacuum cleaner.  They always just need
to be unstuck and have belts replaced.


#7 of 46 by russ on Sun Dec 7 17:30:27 2003:

John, fixing a vacuum cleaner is easy.

There are four possible reasons that you could be losing belts:

1.)     The roller-brush still has fibers around the shaft.

2.)     The roller-brush has frozen bearings.

3.)     The pulley at either the motor or the brush has burrs
        or other flaws which cut the belt.

4.)     The belt is so loose that it slips regardless, and
        it wears through in short order.

Eliminating 1 and 2 is easy; just see if the brush turns freely with
the belt off.  A close scan of the pulleys should tell you if it's 3,
and if you can turn the brush while holding the belt immobile then 4
is your problem.

To fix, use a knife, oil, small round file or adjust tension as required.


#8 of 46 by slynne on Sun Dec 7 17:39:53 2003:

Someone left an old Dirt Devil at my house that had a bad roller-brush. 
Since I have all hardwood floors, I just took that out and use it 
without the brush. It works great :)


#9 of 46 by jep on Sun Dec 7 22:50:11 2003:

The roller brush is jammed up.  It is not easy to fix.  Yes, I took it 
out.  I took the shaft out of it, and cleaned it really well, and it 
still jammed up again after a couple of minutes.


#10 of 46 by jep on Sun Dec 7 22:50:56 2003:

This could be my impetus to get a Roomba.  They're $200 at Best Buy.


#11 of 46 by goose on Sun Dec 7 23:32:18 2003:

I have heard that Roomba's do not do a very thorough job.  They sure look
cool.


#12 of 46 by jep on Sun Dec 7 23:52:57 2003:

Heh.  I doubt if I do a very thorough job, either.  At least with a 
Roomba the floor would be vacuumed regularly.


#13 of 46 by keesan on Mon Dec 8 02:41:32 2003:

Do you really want to spend $200?  Jim offers to fix it if you drop it off.
And we have another one that you might find simpler to fix.  Larry (polygon)
stopped by to trade monitors (we had made a computer for his five year old
to play games on and gave him the only monitor for which we had a manual and
we needed it back for linux).  He brought along his broken vacuum cleaner
which he does not want back if it gets fixed.  The symptom was that he smelled
something burning when he tried to use it.  Jim and I debated whether that
might be the motor or the belt burning, so Jim took a look at it.
I have posted his photo at www.usol.com/~keesan.  He asks for ideas.

John III might like to try fixing this one.  It is relatively new.  Kenmore.
The red spiral is the brushes on the beater bar.  


#14 of 46 by jep on Mon Dec 8 15:17:29 2003:

I don't see the pictures of the vacuum, Sindi.  I don't know what kind 
of useful suggestions I could have about it.  I have fully 30 minutes 
of experience in vacuum cleaner repair; that with a Hoover.

No, I don't really want to spend $200, but I do need to be able to 
vacuum my floor.  The Roomba does something I think could be very 
useful to me; it vacuums automatically when you're not around.  It's 
something I've thought about getting even before my vacuum broke, but 
now that appear to need a different vacuum anyway, it seems worth 
considering again.

If I go that route, I'll probably still want a supplemental vacuum. 
Either my current one or a different used one would fill my need just 
fine, if they work.

I am not going to mess around a lot with vacuums.  The ones I'd get are 
on the low end anyway.  I'm not going to spend a lot of time and energy 
avoiding spending $100-200 for a vacuum.


#15 of 46 by jep on Mon Dec 8 15:29:08 2003:

I had subscribed to Consumer Reports WWW page when I was looking at 
cars.  Since I got a 1 year subscription, it's still available, and it 
only makes sense to use it for vacuums.

So I did so, I went out and read up on current vacuums, and thought 
their "Best Buy" for upright vacuums, the Eureka Boss Smart Vac 4870, 
seemed like a decent choice for me at $140.  Everything on the planet 
is on sale right now, so I went through ads yesterday looking for one.

Hahaha!  Not a chance.  They're not sold.  I could get one on eBay...

So then I looked through their ratings for the under $200 vacuums that 
are being advertised.

Hahaha!  *None* of them are reviewed.  Nothing very close to what's 
being advertised is reviewed.

Consumer Reports really isn't very helpful this time around.


#16 of 46 by gull on Mon Dec 8 17:10:33 2003:

Re resp:3: I have long hair, so I have that problem in spades.  Every
month or two I have to cut away all the hair that has wound itself
around the beater brush of my vaccuum.  This is one reason I won't be
buying a Roomba...I figure I'd spend all my time cleaning the silly
thing.  Also, you have to pick up all the clutter in the room before
setting the Roomba loose, and that takes me much longer than the actual
vaccuuming.

Re resp:15: I've always had that problem with Consumer Reports, too. 
They seem to live in some alternate universe that has completely
different brands and models available than the one I live in.


#17 of 46 by glenda on Mon Dec 8 17:32:39 2003:

I have thought about getting a Roomba, just for the fun I could have watching
the reactions of 6 cats  :-)  But the thought of $200 for a vacuum for a house
with nothing but hardwood floors just to watch the cats either chase it or
run away from it isn't really worth it.


#18 of 46 by bru on Mon Dec 8 20:37:25 2003:

I understand the roomba has limitations with regard to suction and capacity.
Otherwise, it sounds like fun.


#19 of 46 by gull on Mon Dec 8 21:13:19 2003:

Re resp:17: Get a cheap radio controlled car, or one of those
battery-operated bump-and-go toys.  Cats are terrified of those things.


#20 of 46 by tod on Mon Dec 8 21:14:03 2003:

This response has been erased.



#21 of 46 by goose on Mon Dec 8 22:27:48 2003:

You need a Rainbow....or a Kirby....;-)


#22 of 46 by glenda on Mon Dec 8 22:59:31 2003:

I found a web site that sells remote controlled laser firing tanks.  They come
in pairs.  The cats love chasing laser pointers. . .  How about laser pointers
that chase back.


#23 of 46 by keesan on Mon Dec 8 23:33:47 2003:

I emailed jep the photo.  Forgot to post the full URL.  It is
www.usol.com/~keesan/vacuum.jpg.  Jep figured out right away what the problem
was with this one.  It is a simple fix.  The red stripes are the brushes on
the beater bar.  The brown object is not found in all vacuum cleaners.
We will trade this one for the other or maybe get them both working.


#24 of 46 by gull on Tue Dec 9 01:15:47 2003:

Kirby vaccuums run forever.  My apartment is way too small to maneuver
one of those chrome beasts in, though.


#25 of 46 by rcurl on Tue Dec 9 03:52:47 2003:

Re #16 (Re #15): Consumers Reports takes time to buy, test, and evaluate
products, then there is the time to write and publish the reprots. The problem
they have lies in manufacurers switching models too fast to keep up with.
I think they do this deliberately so that reviews of products are hardly
ever current and hence the manufacturers don't have to worry about them.


#26 of 46 by cmcgee on Tue Dec 9 14:31:47 2003:

I have found that asking an experienced sales person to show me the current
model that used to be xxxxx in Consumer Reports, usually gives me what I need.
Experienced sales people tell me whether the engine/motor/whatever has
remained the same, and what the differences between the old doodads and the
new doodads are.  

Usually what I am looking  for is longevity/durability and if the basic power
unit is the one that was reported in CR, that's good enough for me.  


#27 of 46 by goose on Tue Dec 9 16:15:44 2003:

Another problem is using different model numbers depending on the place it
was purchased, such as the Suckmaster 2000WM if bought at WalMart, or the
Suckmaster 2000KM if purchased at K-Mart.  Despite its shortcomings I will
continue to get Consumer Reports if only to support what they are trying to
do. (I do end up using the information quite a bit)


#28 of 46 by jep on Tue Dec 9 19:21:34 2003:

re resp:21: My mother got a Kirby several years ago.  Then, for some 
reason, she got an upgrade a year ago that does steam cleaning.  Two 
$1500 vacuums... she got a discount on the 2nd one; $300 I think it was.

Unfortunately she got the upgrade, *then* told me about it.  Mom... 
$1500 will buy you a lot of trips from Stanley Steemer...


#29 of 46 by tod on Tue Dec 9 19:34:58 2003:

This response has been erased.



#30 of 46 by jmsaul on Wed Dec 10 01:21:31 2003:

Re #27:  Some suppliers (Levi's for example) do cheaper goods for WalMart.
         I realize that was just an example, but I'd watch out.


#31 of 46 by tod on Wed Dec 10 19:25:03 2003:

This response has been erased.



#32 of 46 by jmsaul on Thu Dec 11 01:08:39 2003:

Let's leave your personal life out of this, shall we?


#33 of 46 by tod on Thu Dec 11 01:12:59 2003:

This response has been erased.



#34 of 46 by keesan on Thu Dec 11 02:32:05 2003:

Jim spent a couple of hours taking the perfect picture of what the problem
was in Larry's vacuum cleaner and it really disappointed that nobody (except
jep, to whom we emailed it) has taken a look: 
http://www.usol.com/~keesan/vacuum.jpg.  It is a funny picture.


#35 of 46 by scott on Thu Dec 11 04:41:28 2003:

That is pretty funny, assuming it was indeed the problem.  :)


#36 of 46 by bhoward on Thu Dec 11 10:24:04 2003:

Re#29: $1500 will get you a hardwood floor of decent quality?!  How many
square meters do you think that would buy?

What sort of wood?


#37 of 46 by keesan on Thu Dec 11 14:38:42 2003:

Re 35, it was the cause of the belt not moving and therefore burning in one
spot and breaking.  
We paid $2 per square foot for third-quality maple flooring in the eightiews,
direct from a factory in the UP.  It is about $5 now at the store, or $50 per
square meter.  30 square meters?  Enough for a reasonable sized house.


#38 of 46 by anderyn on Thu Dec 11 14:48:16 2003:

That is a pretty cool picture. I didn't know ou could get monkeys in your
vacuum, instead of on your back.


#39 of 46 by aruba on Thu Dec 11 14:59:07 2003:

Yeah, you gotta watch out for those monkeys.  Good picture, Jim. :)


#40 of 46 by slynne on Thu Dec 11 15:21:51 2003:

Hahaha. I wonder how that monkey got in there? ;)


#41 of 46 by bru on Thu Dec 11 17:05:50 2003:

Teh vacuumer was probably vacuuming up peanuts, and the monkey was going for
lunch.


#42 of 46 by tod on Thu Dec 11 19:37:02 2003:

This response has been erased.



#43 of 46 by bhoward on Fri Dec 12 00:17:56 2003:

Was curious because not long ago I requested a guestimate on flooring our
home.  It came out to quite a bit higher than though come to think of it,
part of that was to level out some slightly uneven sections of the concrete
block foundation.


#44 of 46 by polygon on Sat Dec 13 06:16:49 2003:

I did look at the picture earlier.  I was puzzled by the animal.  Do you
mean to suggest it was caught inside the vacuum somewhere?


#45 of 46 by jep on Sat Dec 13 13:35:49 2003:

Larry, I've got the monkey now; Jim and Sindi gave it to me when I 
picked up the vacuum.  Would you like to have it back?

I replaced the belt and Larry's old vacuum seems to work great for 
me.  Thanks, Jim and Sindi!


#46 of 46 by keesan on Sat Dec 13 15:32:27 2003:

The monkey was caught exactly as the photo shows it - it is unposed.  Larry
obviously is not one of those DIYers :=)


There are no more items selected.

You have several choices: