Grex Agora47 Conference

Item 185: US support for dictators

Entered by sj2 on Sat Nov 22 09:05:46 2003:

See these two photographs.

http://www.thememoryhole.org/pol/rumsfeld-in-uzbekistan_files/51.jpg
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/handshake300.jpg

http://www.thememoryhole.org/pol/us-and-uz.htm

Independent human rights groups estimate that there are more than 600 
politically motivated arrests a year in Uzbekistan, and 6,500 
political prisoners, some tortured to death. According to a forensic 
report commissioned by the British embassy, in August two prisoners 
were even boiled to death. 

The US condemned this repression for many years. But since September 
11 rewrote America's strategic interests in central Asia, the 
government of President Islam Karimov has become Washington's new best 
friend in the region.
31 responses total.

#1 of 31 by pvn on Sat Nov 22 11:25:21 2003:

So?  This is a surprise to you.  Quite frankly the numbers you cite are
silly.  You gotta add a few zeros on the right before it really becomes
of interest otherwise you are not far from what probably goes on in your
hometown US although I will grant you the two 'boiling to death' as
other than the lack of AC that seems a little over the top for the US.  
Here is a clue "People have friends, nations have Interests".  It is
apparently a quote from a jewboy - seems I recall he had something to
do with the brits and their empire...


#2 of 31 by bru on Sat Nov 22 16:52:41 2003:

Saddam was our freind for a while.  But we finally got him.


#3 of 31 by rcurl on Sat Nov 22 17:22:34 2003:

We got him? Where is he?


#4 of 31 by bru on Sat Nov 22 20:12:47 2003:

well, we got his country.


#5 of 31 by happyboy on Sat Nov 22 21:02:40 2003:

really?  *we* got his country?


#6 of 31 by slynne on Sat Nov 22 21:38:29 2003:

YEah, *we* did. I think I ran into bru 3 times at the Bagdhad airport. 


#7 of 31 by jp2 on Sat Nov 22 21:44:38 2003:

This response has been erased.



#8 of 31 by happyboy on Sat Nov 22 21:44:46 2003:

was he *handcuffing* boys?


#9 of 31 by klg on Sun Nov 23 02:06:26 2003:

When was Mr. Saddam our "friend?"  Unfortunately, the U.S. State 
Department, seeking stability, pushes pragmatism over ethical 
judgements often makes it appear that way (viz., Sec. Colin Powell's 
insistance that our government continue - against all rational hope - to 
seek the approval of the Disunited Nations prior to the invasion of 
Iraq).  This is a key reason why the U.S. is so slow to act against 
tyrants, such as Saddam.


#10 of 31 by scott on Sun Nov 23 05:14:35 2003:

Ah, so in that photo where Rummy is shaking hands with Saddam, he's secretly
gritting his teeth while wishing the United Nations were in there doing
something?


#11 of 31 by sj2 on Sun Nov 23 06:02:06 2003:

I am not suggesting a theory here. Just do your own fact-digging. As 
pvn suggests, its might mostly be *larger* national interests (a bit 
contorted though).


#12 of 31 by klg on Sun Nov 23 17:26:47 2003:

(ah.  So Mr. scott believes that Israel and the PA are friends because 
of a photo showing Prime Minister Sharon and Chairman Arafat shaking 
hands?  This is thought-povoking.)


#13 of 31 by sj2 on Mon Nov 24 05:20:35 2003:

The photographs are only symbolic. Read the article. But I guess you 
won't do that because that would be uncomfortable. Is it?


#14 of 31 by willcome on Mon Nov 24 06:36:35 2003:

a CALL CENTER support staffer who is a qualified engineer is under-
employed


#15 of 31 by sj2 on Mon Nov 24 08:15:10 2003:

Yes, very good willcome. :P


#16 of 31 by albaugh on Mon Nov 24 16:19:58 2003:

sj2, what is your point, that the US is an evil imperialist empire, meddling
in your corner of the world?  Look in the mirror:  India has plenty of its
own problems to deal with.  Trot out some of those, why don't you?


#17 of 31 by willcome on Mon Nov 24 19:12:18 2003:

whore.


#18 of 31 by rcurl on Mon Nov 24 21:29:05 2003:

Jerk.


#19 of 31 by happyboy on Tue Nov 25 02:22:48 2003:

safe sex.


#20 of 31 by ankh on Tue Nov 25 06:24:28 2003:

re #16: getting touchy, albaugh? 



#21 of 31 by happyboy on Tue Nov 25 06:42:37 2003:

re16: "india has many problems, etc" yeah, and many of them
caused by having been colonized by europeans for so long.


#22 of 31 by sj2 on Tue Nov 25 15:17:06 2003:

"sj2, what is your point, that the US is an evil imperialist 
empire ...."

You assumed that, I didn't say that. US has a lots of things that I 
appreciate but its foreign policy is not one of them.


#23 of 31 by happyboy on Tue Nov 25 16:49:02 2003:

do you appreciate BAYWATCH?


#24 of 31 by tod on Tue Nov 25 17:00:08 2003:

This response has been erased.



#25 of 31 by sj2 on Tue Nov 25 17:12:02 2003:

Re #23 - Sure, boob jobs are the US's gift to males across the world ;)


#26 of 31 by happyboy on Tue Nov 25 17:12:28 2003:

/pees in sj2's *cornmash*


#27 of 31 by gull on Tue Nov 25 17:34:39 2003:

Re #25: Well, at least to heterosexual males who think bigger is always
better...


#28 of 31 by sj2 on Tue Nov 25 17:43:24 2003:

Re #24

During 43 days of war in 1991, the US flew 109,876 sorties and dropped 
84,200 tons of bombs. Average monthly tonnage of ordnance used nearly 
equaled that of World War II
( Airpower in the Gulf War,  Air and Space Power Mentoring Guide Essays 
II, pp. 72-73 (U.S. Air Force 1999)

Ninety-three per cent of munitions used by the allies consisted of 
unguided  dumb  bombs, dropped primarily by Vietnam-era B-52 carpet-
bombers. About 70 per cent of bombs and missiles missed their targets, 
frequently destroying private homes and killing civilians. 
(John MacArthur, Second Front: Censorship and Propaganda in the Gulf 
War, 1993, p. 161)

On Dec. 16, 1998, fighters and bombers from the British RAF and U.S. 
Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps launched a devastating air assault on 
Iraq under the codename "Operation Desert Fox." The four-day bombing 
blitz launched more cruise missiles than were fired during Operation 
Desert Storm.
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=14263

The 2003 war was *better*. 650 civilians killed with 4600 tonnes of 
bombs dropped. Unfortunately, Civilians killed, per 10,000 tonnes of 
bombs, rose from ~400 in 1991 to ~1350 in 2003. So much for precision 
and so much for being *upfront and personal*.

When *precision* bombing Really isn't: The evil, the grotesque and the 
official lies.
by Marc W. Herold
Departments of Economics and Women's Studies
Whittemore School of Business & Economics
University of New Hampshire
http://www.cursor.org/stories/iraq.html

Tod, but I guess people like you have *unfailing* belief in your 
politicians and military commanders. 


#29 of 31 by tsty on Tue Nov 25 18:01:04 2003:

ha! last line is bilge water. 


#30 of 31 by albaugh on Tue Nov 25 18:57:08 2003:

Yep, them damned Brits set the Hindus against the Muslims, curse them!


#31 of 31 by willcome on Thu Nov 27 09:41:08 2003:

whore.


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