Grex Agora46 Conference

Item 69: What the promoters of RFID in products aren't telling you

Entered by russ on Wed Jul 9 02:19:17 2003:

http://cryptome.org/rfid-docs.htm

Privacy activists are playing hardball with the RFID promoters.

================= BEGIN QUOTED MATERIAL ===================

Yesterday, the Center's Director Kevin Ashton claimed openness in a
Boston Globe interview:  "We don't have anything to hide, and we're
very open with what we do." 

This was in response to CASPIAN's disclosing a security hole on the
Auto-ID Center website (www.autoidcenter.org) that permitted access
to embarrassing and confidential documents. See 
http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/189/business/PR_plan_riles_foes_of_produc
t_tracking+.shtml


"We're very pleased that the Center is open to sharing information about
its activities," said CASPIAN Founder and Director Katherine Albrecht. 

"This is what we have been calling for all along.  Now we'd like to see
them prove it." 

CASPIAN is challenging Ashton's claim by issuing 3 basic questions about
the Center's current trials, including trials where Gillette Mach 3
razors are silently tagged and tracked at selected Wal-Mart stores. 

1. What products are currently being tagged with RFID devices as part of
the Auto-ID Center trials?  What products have been involved in past trials? 

2. Where can consumers see the RFID trials underway?  Please provide
specific store location information. 

3. Where can consumers get details about what information is being
collected when they purchase tagged items during these trials?  For
example, are consumers being tracked, videotaped, or photographed? 

================= END OF QUOTED MATERIAL ===================

I particularly like this little presentation:
http://cryptome.org/rfid/communications.pdf
21 responses total.

#1 of 21 by polytarp on Wed Jul 9 04:25:05 2003:

Shut up, russ.


#2 of 21 by scg on Wed Jul 9 06:30:38 2003:

What's the context for this?  What's an RFID?


#3 of 21 by scott on Wed Jul 9 06:36:55 2003:

"Radio Frequency IDentification" - same thing as the little ID chip implanted
in pets, it's a tiny little transceiver which has some small amount of
information which can be read by a nearby sensor (within a few feet).  

There's a discussion on Slashdot from a day or two ago.


#4 of 21 by sj2 on Wed Jul 9 11:12:05 2003:

RFID tags can be embedded in almost anything. They are tiny radio 
transmitters containing various information. Paper certificates, 
tyres, jeans .... almost anything can be embedded with them. Even 
humans!!! It is used to track and gather information. Think of it as a 
replacement for bar codes. 

The issue here is privacy. Can I be tracked if I buy Levi's jeans 
tagged with a RFID??? Does the vendor need to inform the customer if a 
product is tagged with RFID?? Right now, its not so much of a problem 
bcoz the use of RFID tags is still in its infancy and for getting any 
information from a RFID tag, you need to be within a feet or so of the 
tag. But what when these tags grow powerful enough to transmit radio 
waves to, say, hundreds of meters?? Scores of questions related to 
privacy.

In my opinion, its not that this technology wasn't available earlier 
but such technologies are now available at such a low cost that it is 
viable to implement them on a large scale. Web servers and tiny web-
surfing add-on tools gather private information and send them to 
corporates all the time. Your windows PC itself may gather and send 
any information to Microsoft (despite assurances from M$ that they do 
not do so, but then who knows??). No no, this is not a M$ bashing 
post, but I am just giving an example. Another example is Amazon. It 
tracks what all things you've bought from them. Do you want an 
anonymous tech support engineer at amazon to find out all that 
information?? 

At your workplace, your network administrator can track almost 
everything you do on the internet. Sites you visit, posts you make to 
message boards (like grex), read your email etc etc. Is that ok with 
you??

Scott McNealy, CEO of Sun Microsystem, suggests that in this digital 
era privacy is dead and people get over this issue. Thats one opinion.


#5 of 21 by gull on Wed Jul 9 14:22:54 2003:

Here's a good introduction to what RFID tags are and how they work:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/31461.html


This kind of technology has been used by some railroads for a while now
-- they call it AEI, for Automatic Equipment Identification.  An RFID
tag is installed on each rail car.  As it goes over the hump in a hump
yard, it's scanned by a reader next to the tracks, and the information
is used by the hump yard's computer to throw switches and route the car
to the right classification track.

(A hump yard, if you're not familiar with the term, is an automatic
railroad switch yard with an artificial hill at one end.  A train is
backed over the hill and each car is cut loose at the crest.  It then
rolls downhill into the yard, its speed is trimmed by brakes in the
tracks, and it's routed into the right classification track by computer
where inertia causes it to couple itself onto the train being built on
that track.)


#6 of 21 by russ on Thu Jul 10 04:02:28 2003:

Think about it for a moment.  If a store can read RFID tags at a
distance of 3 feet, it means that they can scan everything that
goes through their doors.  If you carry a bag of something with
an RFID tag in it into their store, they can track you as you walk
around.  If you buy *clothes* with RFID tags in them and they are
not deactivated, they can connect the purchase record to your name
and then track you everywhere you go for as long as you own them.

RFID is being sold on the basis of convenience, but it holds out the
possibility of creating a surveillance society that Joseph Stalin and
Mao Zedong would have envied.  Your government is buying commercial
records of all your movements and transactions, but isn't telling you
what it's doing when it's making policy.  What's wrong with this picture?


#7 of 21 by scg on Thu Jul 10 05:14:54 2003:

Ah, so it's basically like the HID cards I used to use to get into my office,
or on a longer distance scale, like the FastTrak things used to pay bridge
tolls without stopping?


#8 of 21 by scott on Thu Jul 10 07:16:54 2003:

Right.  Trading distance for minaturization, basically.

As a few people suggested on Slashdot, you could put things in the microwave
for a few seconds to burn out the tags.  Would work on most clothing, although
electronics wouldn't fare too well.


#9 of 21 by sj2 on Thu Jul 10 08:23:39 2003:

Hmmm ... these tags can communicate upto a distance of 250 
feet????!!!! Now thats scary!!
 
http://www.capocci.gr/065.htm

"High frequency Systems, operating in the ultrahigh frequency band 
from 500 megahertz to 2.5 gigahertz, are more applicable in the 
automobile and trucking industries. These tags often can communicate 
with readers at a distance greater than 250 feet while moving at 
speeds more than 150 miles an hour."




#10 of 21 by jmsaul on Thu Jul 10 12:14:48 2003:

Re #8:  Any risk to the microwave?


#11 of 21 by scott on Thu Jul 10 12:26:38 2003:

Not really.  I nuke CDRs quite often, and then there's the time I meant to
use the timer function and instead had the microwave running empty for a
couple minutes. 


#12 of 21 by gull on Thu Jul 10 13:18:42 2003:

I've nuked CDs on a few occasions.  The only damage so far has been a
smell that persisted for a day or so when I nuked one too long.

CD in a microwave, propped up on a cardboard box for better visibility:
http://www.gull.us/photos/misc/cd.jpg


#13 of 21 by slynne on Thu Jul 10 17:42:07 2003:

Ok. I have to ask. Why would you want to nuke a CD?


#14 of 21 by flem on Thu Jul 10 17:55:50 2003:

See the photo.  :)


#15 of 21 by scott on Thu Jul 10 18:09:43 2003:

Security, or perhaps for legal reasons (burning a copy of something to test
a new burner, then nuking the copy)


#16 of 21 by slynne on Thu Jul 10 18:37:33 2003:

Heh. I guess I dont have anything on CD that is so sensitive I worry 
that someone might go through my trash to get it. I just throw them out 
when I am done with them. ;)


#17 of 21 by rcurl on Thu Jul 10 19:03:52 2003:

I break mine in half if I consider anything on them confidential. I suppose
a super-sluth could get something off them, but who would try?

By the way - that's all good plastic. Are they recyclable?


#18 of 21 by gull on Fri Jul 11 14:16:50 2003:

Re #13: Because it looks cool. :)

Incidentally, have you ever noticed that those expensive music CDs
shatter easily, but you can bend a cheap AOL CD almost double before it
snaps?


#19 of 21 by tod on Fri Jul 11 16:45:30 2003:

This response has been erased.



#20 of 21 by janc on Fri Jul 11 18:44:59 2003:

I know nothing about it, but there are lots of kinds of "quality" in plastics.
One plastic might be more brittle, but won't decay much with age.  If I were
making AOL disks, I would be keeping cost per as low as possible, and I
wouldn't mind a bit if the plastic degraded so they weren't usable in two
years.  Who will want a two-year old AOL disk?  For music CD's I'd care a lot
more about how long it lasts and how well it holds up to scuffs, scratches,
and high temperatures.  If I can get high marks on those factors by making
the disk a bit more brittle, I'd consider that a good deal.


#21 of 21 by gull on Mon Jul 14 15:26:41 2003:

My guess is that the music discs use a harder but more brittle plastic, for
scratch resistance purposes.  Hardness and brittleness usually go together.


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