From wire reports: "Camping in the Buff Nudist Camps for Kids Get Mixed Reaction By Jill Barton The Associated Press W E S T P A L M B EA C H, Fla., June 24 U.S. Rep. Mark Foley urged Florida officials to investigate a nudist camp for children, saying it subjects the children to denigrating and dangerous behavior and could expose them to pedophiles. The weeklong summer camp run by the American Association for Nude Recreation outside of Tampa allows children ages 11 to 18 get together for games and sports and discussions about their choice to stay in the buff. Foley, co-chairman of the Congressional Missing and Exploited Children's Caucus, sent a letter Thursday to Gov. Jeb Bush and Attorney General Charlie Crist asking them to determine whether the camp was legal and to consider toughening state statutes against such activities. "Obviously I have no way of knowing whether illegal behavior is taking place in this camp, but the situation clearly raises legitimate issues that should be addressed given that it involves minor children," Foley, R-West Palm Beach, said in the letter. Bush had not yet reviewed the letter and had no comment, spokeswoman Alia Faraj said on Thursday. Erich Schuttauf, executive director of the American Association for Nude Recreation, said he applauded Foley for looking to protect children. "We're on the same team. We're about the same thing, we believe in strong families," Schuttauf said. "Here, we talk frankly about body parts, about how to respect your body and make sure everyone else does, too." Though some trespassers have entered the camp, security officials always have removed them from the private property before they interacted with any children or teenagers, he said. Steve Vickers, who went to the summer camp for five years before becoming a counselor, said Foley has the wrong idea about the camp. He said a strict line is drawn between nudism and sexuality, and no one would consider abusing the distinction. "There was a definite split. When you're nude, it's like family time," Vickers said. "And when you're at school, and you see the same people, then you could talk about dating or things like that." Vickers grew up at a nudist resort in Kissimmee, about 85 miles east of the summer camp held near Tampa in Lutz. He said some of the 30 children and teenagers who attended the camp also lived at nudist resorts across the country but others lived in traditional neighborhoods and took off their clothes only on weekends. He described himself and others at the nudist camp as "moral extremists," noting that several of his friends at the camp remained virgins through high school, unlike many other teens they knew. Still, Foley questioned how such an environment could be described as "wholesome." He also distinguished it from computer-related behavior, such as Internet porn and child modeling, that he's spoken out against. Those activities at least must go through filters, he said. "In this particular situation, you're actually putting these children together with adults," he said. "It's a little bizarre to me that parents would even consider putting their children in such a situation."60 responses total.
what do you think of this concept? It is true, surveys have said, that many children and teenagers grow up too "body sensitive" Nudist advocates would surely say that a children's nudist camp would teach them to become more comfortable with their bodies and thus with the world in general. But others would say that nudist camps for children has more of a downside to it as a concept than its upside
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What do most families do about nudity at home when their children are growing up? We never made anything of nudity when it was natural to be nude. I wonder if these blue-noses followed some rules about being undressed when they were growing up.
The kids going to this camp are children of nudists. If this camp didn't exist, they'd be hanging out at nudist resorts with their families anyway. You have to consider it in that context.
You know, I've heard, though I haven't seen evidence, that urinating
in a public park is now considered an offence that puts you on the sex
offender list. If so, it and this join the ranks of some of the sillier ideas
that I've heard of people getting confused in their zealotry against sexual
abuse.
Justice Voelker of the Michigan Supreme Court wrote a great opinion about this issue in the 1950s -- a decision which essentially legalized private nudist camps in Michigan. (State police invaded a private nudist camp near Battle Creek and arrested everyone, mainly on the notion that minors were present; the state supreme court threw out the convictions.) Mark Foley is a fascinating case himself: a conservative Republican politician who has always been widely known in Florida political circles to be a gay man. He openly attends events with his male partner, and is a regular at gay bars and nightclubs in Florida and in Washington. However, only recently has this been mentioned in the press. Foley, who is a candidate for a U.S. Senate seat next year, has reacted angrily to what he sees as an infringement on his privacy. But how much privacy can a US Senate candidate in a large state really expect, over a personal issue he has never bothered to conceal before? The debate rages on in both the straight and gay media. Funny time for him to blast the nudists.
It allows him to show himself as a defender of children by discriminating against a small minority. It distances himself from one of the more severe beliefs people have about gay men; That they are abusers of young men.
My home runs like Rane's, I guess. We're usually dressed but don't make anything of it if we're not, in private. I'd have been terrified at the idea of going to a nudist camp for kids, myself, when I was 11-18. And of course, excited. As a parent, I wouldn't pick such a place to send my son. If he really, really wanted to go, I'd probably consider letting him, but it seems pretty far-fetched. I don't expect he'll want to. He doesn't seem the type. re resp:6: Can't gay men go on moral crusades, too? Maybe it'll distract the press a little from his homosexuality. Probably not, and probably it won't have any effect; this seems like an awfully minor issue. He needs to catch Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein raising money for his opponent by selling drugs to 5th graders. I bet there are a lot of nudist camps in Florida and they aren't a very big political topic.
Re #8, 3rd para: As I said, the kids going to this are already nudists, who
have been raised in nudist families.
Re #8: Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein are love partners. I saw it in the Enquirer. ;)
Of course, it's also possible that Mark Foley approves of homosexuality and disapproves of public nudity around children. There's no real contradiction there.
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You don't have to be out of this country for it to be legit. It's legit on private property right here in the US.
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There are also some public nude recreation areas, but I don't know their policy on children.
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A lot of them are, but not all. By the way, I don't think that the existence of pedophiles is a justification for preventing kids from going nude any more than the existence of conventional hetero rapists would be for preventing women from going nude. That's the same species of argument Moslem governments give for legislating hijab (or worse): since there are bad people out there who might attack women if they see their faces, the answer is to cover women's faces. I do agree that you have to be careful, supervise, and watch out for the bastards.
Bah. Yet another "Protect the children! Vote for me!" campaign. The number of people in this country who push their own agenda by claiming that it's for the good of the children is just disgusting. What's even more disgusting is that it works, as often as not.
Nudity seems to be at least tolerated on the more secluded California (or at least Bay Area) beaches, with some of them drawing huge crowds of naked people. There's at least one state-run public beach just South of San Francisco that's officially clothing optional. I'm not aware of any restrictions on children at any of those. All the same, I found the comments by the camp spokesperson in this article a bit creepy for some reason. It seems to me there's a big difference between taking off your clothes because you feel like it and you're around a group of people who don't object, versus the formality this group seems to be putting around it.
we live in a country who's president doesn't even support sex ed for kids, claiming that abstinence is the only way to keep them safe. inserting a kids nudist camp is a risky idea, if only because the US is such a prudish culture.
19 slipped. i agree it's a bit creepy - in our culture there seem to be a lot of sexually repressed perves. look at the church.
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dunno what amber alert is man..
They have a public nude beach in San Diego, I've been there before (clothed though) It is right near UC-San Diego, you have to climb down a steep cliff to get to it, which is I guess why it is allowed
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My 6 year old neighbor was out on the sidewalk without clothes a few days ago after he got cold in the pool and the wet clothing made him colder. Am I liable for prosecution since I was there? In Italy little children are expected to swim without clothing, and their mothers dress on the beach.
I think the best rule of thumb is to avoid being much nuder or much less nude than everyone else. If I decide to stroll naked through downtown Manhattan, I'm going to make myself pretty conspicuous, and I could wind up attracting all sorts of unpleasant attention. If I go naked at a nudist gathering, I'm actually gonna be making myself less conspicuous. In a country where nudity is the norm for small kids, letting your kid go naked is probably perfectly safe. In a country where even little kids are expected to be fully clothed, it might be more dangerous.
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this is true. i actually saw it once, though not in manhattan, but just over the bridge in williamsburg, brooklyn. woman was just walking down the street naked. later the police were cruising around trying to find her. no biggie really, just bizarre.
I'll bet they were looking for her....
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here in nyc, nobody pays any attention to anyone else. one could be walking nude down the street, and nobody would pay it any mind. until some cop comes along who feels like writing out a ticket. you see enough bizarre stuff living in the big city that after a while you become de-sensitized and very little shocks you. I once saw a couple in central park, pretty clearly having sex, and people jogging right past them not even noticing or caring.
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Someone should probably change the MOTD, according to which this is the GrexWalk item. . . . .
All right, so I picked the wrong city for my example... :)
re 36:
I fixed the MOTD for this week, but there's probably some automated
process that needs to be fixed for the long term. I sent mail to staff asking
them to do a long term fix.
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As I recall, a New York State judge ruled some time ago that display of a nude female torso was not indecent exposure and not a crime. In other words, if men could legally be shirtless, it was a violation of equal protection to prosecute women for it. I saw a partly nude man in a crowded subway station (Lexington Avenue line) in NYC a few years back. I would guess he was somewhat disturbed. A few minutes later, I saw him being led away by police.
I look at nude people for a living. Next. ;-)
Re #40: I don't know about New York, but I think that was ruled to be the case in Ontario.
New York too.
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Mermaid Parade?
Yeah, Mermaid Parade??!!
Google it. (I did.)
Too much work
To judge by cultures where substantial clothing isn't usually worn (generally primitive tribal), nudity isn't much of a turn-on to folks who generally go naked when they have a choice. From nudists i've talked to, it sounds like expressing a "nudity means sex" attitude is a quick way to get marked as "a creep or loser who needs to be thrown out". This still leaves the issue of protecting the kids from sickos trying to sneak in past the guards. But since the politician is a southern conservative, there's an easy answer - let the kids pack heat and teach 'em to use it. NRA'll cover the cost - think of the publicity when Amy (age 8) offs a creep who broke in and "was trying to fondle little Billy" (age 4)!
nambla to the 'rescue'? frothing pedofiles are breathless.
There were a number of topless women at the Aqua Park (huge pair of swimming pools) attached to my hotel in Plovdiv, Bulgaria. It looked odd to me, but the women were completely unconcerned. One of our (stranger) singers had his picture taken with two such women, though, on the basis that no one back home in New York would believe him otherwise. (Ask me about "Robert, the annoying tenor" sometime.) Also, there were quite a few naked little kids. Nudity (or semi nudity) is definitely much more acceptable in Europe.
When I was in Norway I was told that the topless thing had stopped a few years ago (now the fashion is a regular swimsuit), although there are a few nudist beaches around. Women would sometimes still flash a little boob when changing, though, instead of trying to hide under a towel.
When I was in Bulgarian they were fining men $5 and women $10 for nude bathing. Topless women got fine $5. In Munchen there was a nude beach in the middle of town on a river. Maybe the fashions are changing as the baby boomers become disatisfied with their shapes.
They fined people in US dollars in Bulgaria? Is this in order to obtain a "hard" currency?
Five levs. I was trying to get a point across.
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At the Freibad (public pool) where I lived in Germany, there was a sunbathing area where maybe every fifth or so female would be topless. I believe there was also an all-nude beach a relatively short bus ride away.
On the other extreme, in Malaysia (a muslim country), nude sunbathing on a public beach could get you twenty years in jail. When I was there last year I was told how seriously they take their laws there. If you were even caught smoking one marijuana joint in Malaysia, it is grounds for the death penalty. And in Singapore, nude sunbathing might get you caned...
Gee, I'd like to know more about this camp- I think my boys would love it. I, on the other hand, are just more comfortable with more clothing and less sweat. I'd like to see what sort of background checks the demand from the staff. I gather, as someone sort of pointed out, that Naturist culture strictly forbids oggling, touching, or any sexual behavior in "public". I'm guessing it never will "coss the desk" of Gov. B.- too much hassle for a non-issue.
I think that if they arent doing anything illegal, than it should be fine, and if the kids dont want to go, they dont have to.
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