Grex Agora46 Conference

Item 229: Let's Sue Verisign

Entered by newjp2 on Wed Sep 17 17:26:42 2003:

Alright, I know most of you are clueless about how legal shit works (as
demonstrated by your posts), I know some real lawyers do read agora, so
let's go.

Let's sue Verisign.  Let's sue some big time.  Not for the silly ass
redirection.  Sue them over the terms of service.  Have the terms of
service declared invalid due to lack of consideration.  They will no
longer do it if they cannot have a contract surrounding it.  

Discuss.
16 responses total.

#1 of 16 by mynxcat on Wed Sep 17 17:27:57 2003:

I don't use Verisign. What are the terms of service? And while we're at it,
can we sue Sprint too?


#2 of 16 by newjp2 on Wed Sep 17 17:29:47 2003:

Type this into your browser:  http://www.<somerandomcrap>.com and you just
became a Verisign user.

Actually, here's a better idea.  Take a case on trademark infringement to WTO
arbitration for www.grexsucks.com.  Actually, that's not a bad idea.


#3 of 16 by sj2 on Wed Sep 17 17:44:36 2003:

Hehe ... they beat M$'s autosearch feature and its horrible MSN 
Search!!!
<smart> I have the google search bar </smart>


#4 of 16 by newjp2 on Wed Sep 17 17:49:51 2003:

I don't use IE, therefore I do not have that problem.


#5 of 16 by gull on Wed Sep 17 17:55:29 2003:

For those who are unaware, Verisign inserted wildcard records into the
.com and .net domains.  (Besides being a domain registrar, Verisign also
manages the root servers for those domains.)  As a result, if you look
up a domain that doesn't exist, you're given a record that points to
sitefinder.verisign.com instead of the usual "nonexistant domain" error.

This has annoyed network administrators by breaking a variety of things
in subtle ways.  It could also be viewed as a bit of a power grab by
Verisign, that might provide them with a competative advantage over
other domain registrars in the future.


#6 of 16 by newjp2 on Wed Sep 17 18:05:38 2003:

Let's not forget the fact this breaks a lot spam-blocking algorithms.  

Or how about this insanity:

howardjp@austin:~:16$ nslookup -sil $.%.*.^^.com
Server:         209.196.32.34
Address:        209.196.32.34#53

Non-authoritative answer:
Name:   \$.%.*.^^.com
Address: 64.94.110.11

howardjp@austin:~:17$

That's got to violate a specification somewhere.


#7 of 16 by scg on Wed Sep 17 18:07:22 2003:

The difference between this and the Microsft Internet Explorer feature is that
Microsoft did it in the web browser, where it applies only to users of their
browser, and is limited in scope to web queries.

Verisign did it in the DNS, where it affects everybody, can't be turned off
without breaking other things, and creates lots of side effects for
applications other than web browsing.


#8 of 16 by sj2 on Thu Sep 18 01:01:50 2003:

Shouldn't stuff like DNS be run by non-profit organisations?? 


#9 of 16 by newjp2 on Thu Sep 18 01:38:30 2003:

Considering .com is owned by the people of the United States, it reall ought
to be run by our government.


#10 of 16 by gelinas on Thu Sep 18 03:26:23 2003:

Yeah, but NSF had to put its network out for competitive bids in the early
1990s, and part of that was bidding out the registry.  It's been a pretty
thorough disaster, in my opinion.


#11 of 16 by tsty on Thu Sep 18 04:36:30 2003:

the public airwaves adn teh public internet ought to be similarly
regulated so this doesnt' have the chance to occur.


#12 of 16 by newjp2 on Thu Sep 18 12:49:53 2003:

I think an organization designed like ITU is in order.


#13 of 16 by gull on Thu Sep 18 14:33:06 2003:

A new version of BIND is due soon that can block Verisign's wildcards
and supply the proper NXDOMAIN response.  (Hopefully the solution will
be general; other TLDs are doing this too, like .nu.)


#14 of 16 by scg on Thu Sep 18 18:17:37 2003:

The BIND solution is configurable.

At issue here is that wildcard DNS records are a legitimate part of the DNS
protocol, at least when used a level or two up.  Some TLDs (.museum for
example) really aren't run like traditional TLDs, and do make use of wildcard
records.

The complaint here, I think, at least from those who understand what they're
complaining about and aren't just getting angry for the sake of getting angry,
is that a wildcard response from a widely used TLD such as .com or .net is
not expected behavior.  It replaces some expected error messages with 
(depending on what protocol you're using) either advertising or the appearance 
of a very different sort of error), and sends Verisign money for something 
that may not be theirs.

That said, the BIND patch probably isn't a good idea either (and Paul Vixie
said as much while releasing it).  The BIND patch changes the expected
behavior of DNS by having servers low in the hierarchy selectively discard
inforamtion they're getting from servers above them.  It's at best breaking
the new brokenness, with results that would make the DNS rather inconsistent
and thus even harder to troubleshoot and perhaps more broken.


#15 of 16 by cross on Thu Sep 18 23:45:38 2003:

This response has been erased.



#16 of 16 by sj2 on Sun Sep 21 09:40:29 2003:

Disable cookies from verisign.com in your browser and the sitefinder 
thingy no longer works!! Yayy!!


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