Grex Agora46 Conference

Item 219: GBA.

Entered by dah on Thu Sep 11 19:19:33 2003:

September Eleventh.

How dare they do this to us.

        America.
22 responses total.

#1 of 22 by happyboy on Thu Sep 11 19:36:47 2003:

september 11

hey, who ate the rest of the back-bacon?!

canada


#2 of 22 by gull on Thu Sep 11 20:01:32 2003:

September 11.
I'm glad the TV coverage isn't as cheap and corny this year.
With any luck in another few years we'll be able to pay our respects
with dignity.


#3 of 22 by other on Thu Sep 11 20:31:07 2003:

Don't betcher wad on it.


#4 of 22 by glenda on Thu Sep 11 20:58:08 2003:

We're wondering when Congress makes 9/11 a National holiday, and how long
after that before it becomes a 'Monday' holiday.


#5 of 22 by happyboy on Thu Sep 11 21:22:49 2003:

replete with commemorative parades and ironic bbqs?


#6 of 22 by bru on Thu Sep 11 22:20:23 2003:

haven't you heard them call today Patriot's Day?  Trying to switch it from
Aprill 18th to sept. 11th to change its meaning.


#7 of 22 by jep on Fri Sep 12 01:38:15 2003:

I had a very slow day at work today; we didn't get many calls at all.  
We all wondered if the reason was that a lot of people aren't working 
on September 11.


#8 of 22 by richard on Fri Sep 12 03:24:00 2003:

The twin beams of light are showing outside my window.  They are beamed from
ground zero naturally, on the exact spots of the WTC towers.  Actually quite
a beautiful sight, the beams coming up from the ground and beaming through
the clouds.  They will shine here in nyc on every September 11th evening from
now on.  
,.


#9 of 22 by jaklumen on Fri Sep 12 07:17:33 2003:

resp:6 egads, no.  that would just annoy the hell out of me.


#10 of 22 by mynxcat on Fri Sep 12 14:06:38 2003:

Re 8. Even when the new structures go up at the WTC site?


#11 of 22 by gull on Fri Sep 12 14:10:44 2003:

Re #6: That kind of bothers me.  I'd rather see us celebrate our
successes and our steps forward as a society as holidays.  Dedicating a
holiday to a moment of defeat just seems wrong.


#12 of 22 by jep on Fri Sep 12 14:37:20 2003:

I agree; I wouldn't create a holiday for a disaster like September 11.  
It would be inappropriate to celebrate that, just as it would be 
inappropriate to celebrate December 7, the anniversary of Pearl Harbor.


#13 of 22 by rcurl on Fri Sep 12 17:29:42 2003:

It is ironic that we celebrate defeats such as Pearl Harbor and 9/11,
and our enemies celebrate them also. Of course, we are really celebrating the
heroism and sacrifices of those that died - but are enemies are celebrating
the same thing, except of different individuals. 

It is a little surprising that we don't celebrate natural disasters, such
as the San Francisco Earthquake or Hurricane XYZ: they also involve much
heroism and sacrifice. They don't, however, involve any human enemies.
So is the celebration of human-caused disasters simple based on celebrating
our antipathies toward others?


#14 of 22 by other on Fri Sep 12 17:34:21 2003:

There is a randomness to earthquakes and hurricanes which allows us to 
accept them a little more easily than targeted attacks.  When we survive 
targeted attacks, we believe it says something more about our strength of 
character or will than it does when we survive natural disasters.

Also, targeted attacks are targeted because of who and what we are, and 
surviving them is a reaffirmation of who and what we are.  That element 
is totally missing from natural disasters because they happen without 
regard to where and whom they affect.


#15 of 22 by rcurl on Fri Sep 12 18:03:00 2003:

There was just as much randomness to 9/11 - it was no more predicted than
the SD earthquake. In fact there *are* predictions (with probabilities
attached) for the next major earthquake on the San Andreas fault, but I
have heard no predictions (with probabilities attached) for the next
terrorism event. I therefore argue that terrorist attacks are more
"random"  than natural disasters, so your first assertion is faulty.

In fact, we do celebrate natural disasters to some extent. Consider the
sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald or the Titanic, but there is a different
flavor to the celebration of human-caused disasters: more patriotic
fervor, I would say.

In trying to pinpoint the distinction...I think one is that we wave the flag
more in disasters instigated by foreigners than we do for natural disasters
or even home-brewed disasters (such as Oklahoma City). It's a "them vs us"
event. 


#16 of 22 by flem on Fri Sep 12 18:15:43 2003:

With natural disasters, there's no one to get revenge on.  There's not much
political advantage to be gained by whipping people into a frenzy of
patriotism.  


#17 of 22 by rcurl on Fri Sep 12 18:37:06 2003:

You would think people would blame their gods.


#18 of 22 by gull on Fri Sep 12 18:48:03 2003:

Does everything have to turn into a discussion about religion?


#19 of 22 by happyboy on Fri Sep 12 18:50:12 2003:

re17:  lol!


#20 of 22 by flem on Fri Sep 12 20:21:48 2003:

No, no, Rane.  You see, since all religious people are hopelessly stupid 
morons, their evil corrupt leaders have them all brainwashed not to 
question their fate.  Duh.  


#21 of 22 by other on Fri Sep 12 20:41:09 2003:

The randomness you attribute to 9/11 for example is of a different sort 
than that attributable to natural disasters.  Of course, the randonmess 
attributable to natural disasters is probably only because we do not yet 
fully understand all the various factors which contribute to the 
occurrences of these events.

The difference is primarily that terrorist attacks are planned and 
carried out against specific targets for specific effect, because of 
specific ideologies.  The logic of natural disasters is pretty reliably 
independent of idology, and thus we cannot point to any unifying 
ideological characteristics behind which we can rally.


#22 of 22 by tsty on Tue Sep 16 05:37:55 2003:

rcurl is not intellectually capable of comprehending other's 21.
 
but we all recognize that faithlessness adn deal with it.


There are no more items selected.

You have several choices: