Grex Agora46 Conference

Item 217: Flies

Entered by dolgr on Thu Sep 11 18:20:56 2003:

I am wondering if anyone here can help me. I badly need the 
descriptions of these species. They are Lispocephala atrimaculata, 
Lispocephala flavibasis,Lispocephala unicolor, Lispocephala  vernalis. 
Maybe in some books they are called Caricea atrimaculata, Caricea 
flavibasis, Caricea unicolor, Caricea vernalis. 

Could anyone please help me to find the information about them? And 
from where do you find this information? If someone could tell me some 
websites of these species or books to look in, I would be very 
grateful. 
44 responses total.

#1 of 44 by gull on Thu Sep 11 19:59:53 2003:

This sounds suspiciously like a class assignment. ;>


#2 of 44 by rcurl on Thu Sep 11 20:25:58 2003:

Just for fun I did a little web searching - and am astonished at how many
species of flies there are. Aren't there more of beetles? 

"When J. B. S. Haldane, remowned British physiologist and philosopher, was
asked what his studies of nature revealed about God, he replied, "An
inordinate fondness for beetles."


#3 of 44 by gull on Fri Sep 12 14:09:08 2003:

<laugh>  I like that.


#4 of 44 by dolgr on Mon Sep 15 12:48:40 2003:

No, it's not a class assignment. Got a mail from a friend in China that needs
info on this (she's working on a Ph.D. in Education, so can't think of why
she needs fly info), but just thought I would post it here in case there are
any entymologists here. 


#5 of 44 by rcurl on Mon Sep 15 16:18:54 2003:

That was a long shot - but not impossible. 


#6 of 44 by dolgr on Mon Sep 15 16:26:49 2003:

Well, yes, but it couldn't hurt to ask, right? 


#7 of 44 by rcurl on Mon Sep 15 17:51:37 2003:

My experience is that it is hard to get any answers here to questions on
obscure or specialist topics, except about computers. I said hard, not
impossible, for there are some fonts of knowledge on some obscure topics -
like, say, Rag Time music, or taxi driving..... 



#8 of 44 by flem on Mon Sep 15 19:04:38 2003:

There are also a lot of people here who are better at googling than I am. 
And more than a few who are willing to give their detailed opinion, whether
they know what they're talking about or not.  :)


#9 of 44 by slynne on Mon Sep 15 23:13:42 2003:

Hey, I resemble that remark!


#10 of 44 by lynne on Wed Sep 17 14:47:50 2003:

<grin>


#11 of 44 by dolgr on Wed Sep 17 19:13:54 2003:

I tried googling, but didn't get anywhere. Guess I'll have to try to hit a
university library for this one. Thanks anyway, people. 


#12 of 44 by rcurl on Wed Sep 17 19:18:36 2003:

It is too specialized and also usually explained with diagrams since
species separations involve minute details of many different body
organs. Also, structural taxonomy is fading as DNA based technology grows.


#13 of 44 by dolgr on Wed Sep 17 19:26:27 2003:

Maybe so, but that doesn't answer the question. It was a long shot, but like
I said, it didn't hurt much. I have seen a number of people here seem to be
quite specialized in one area or another so I thought I'd take the chance.
Now, if I can find some old books on this . . . 


#14 of 44 by rcurl on Wed Sep 17 22:19:43 2003:

I wasn't answering a question, but just discussing likely reasons for a low
probability of an expert on that specific topic to be a grex participant.
Low, but not impossible, as I said.

I'm familiar with taxonomic articles in other areas (concerning troglobytes
and stygobytes) and they appear mostly in journals, since journal publication
is necessary for the description of new species. Eventually they get gathered
into books (I have some on the diatoms). So there must be such compilations
on the flies. How about "TAXONOMY OF THE MUSCOIDEAN FLIES" (1908). You
can find this and another several dozen such books at http://www.abebooks.c
om/
if you search on <flies taxonomy>.


#15 of 44 by dah on Wed Sep 17 22:55:59 2003:

If she's working on a Ph. D, she should do her own fucking research.  Don't
contribute to the degredation of degrees.


#16 of 44 by rcurl on Thu Sep 18 00:30:14 2003:

We aren't talking about her sex life, where I agree she *should* do her
own research, but getting "hints" to point ways to learn are considered
legitimate in education. Teachers are supposed to be mentors, not just
critics.


#17 of 44 by dah on Thu Sep 18 00:32:36 2003:

dolgr isn't a teacher, and surely by Ph. D time, she should be able to look
up the names of some flies.


#18 of 44 by rcurl on Thu Sep 18 01:05:23 2003:

I'd say you should be right if this were a finishing PhD students, but 
you may not understand how callow and ignorant are beginning PhD students
(my apologies to anyone to whom those descriptors applied). 


#19 of 44 by dah on Thu Sep 18 01:11:35 2003:

I could look up the names of those flies and I'm never even been an
undergraduate.  It's trivial, and you are, sir, contributing to the
degredation of degrees.  (degrade-ation of degrees.  how clever.)


#20 of 44 by rcurl on Thu Sep 18 06:28:28 2003:

OK. Go ahead, if it is so trivial.


#21 of 44 by tod on Thu Sep 18 06:34:52 2003:

This response has been erased.



#22 of 44 by dah on Thu Sep 18 15:43:28 2003:

Rane, I couldn't do that and prove it without contributing to the 
degredation of degrees.


#23 of 44 by rcurl on Thu Sep 18 16:19:25 2003:

I think you are just stalling. Go ahead, "degrade" all of our degrees. I'd
love to see your attempt to do it. The essence of the scientific method is
open discourse, which includes showing others are wrong. 



#24 of 44 by tod on Thu Sep 18 17:17:09 2003:

This response has been erased.



#25 of 44 by rcurl on Thu Sep 18 18:57:35 2003:

Of course - but that doesn't mean that any of them are *wrong*. 


#26 of 44 by tod on Thu Sep 18 21:38:10 2003:

This response has been erased.



#27 of 44 by rcurl on Fri Sep 19 06:15:14 2003:

By comparing hypotheses with observations. dah has been touting a
hypothesis.  I am pressing him for supporting observations.



#28 of 44 by dolgr on Fri Sep 19 12:17:11 2003:

If her dregree was in entymology, I might be "degrading" it, but her thesis
is in education. I doubt it the question is related to her studies as I see
no direct relation of the taxonomy of flies to elementary education. 

Ask a simple question at grex, will you! 

Thanks, rcurl, I'll look for some old books at ABE. Have used the service
several times before. 
. 


#29 of 44 by dah on Fri Sep 19 15:46:15 2003:

If she's going to be a teacher, she should surely learn how to do her 
own research.  You are degrading her degree; it's feeble.


#30 of 44 by remmers on Fri Sep 19 16:33:12 2003:

One way to "do your own research" is to ask other people for leads.


#31 of 44 by gull on Fri Sep 19 17:25:48 2003:

It seems to me that dah's argument, taken to the extreme, would suggest
that students aren't supposed to be taught at all; they're supposed to
find out everything on their own, with no help.


#32 of 44 by dah on Fri Sep 19 18:22:34 2003:

30: she's asking dolgr to do it for her, not just give her a lead.

31: you're saying it's acceptable to be working on a Ph. D and not have the
ability to look up things in reference books?  I, for one, think Ph. Ds should
be able to do at least that.


#33 of 44 by rcurl on Fri Sep 19 18:54:52 2003:

Sure - in education, since that was her discipline. It seems eminently
sensible to ask for help in fields outside her expertise. 


#34 of 44 by dah on Fri Sep 19 20:26:29 2003:

Reading isn't taught in elementary schools these days?


#35 of 44 by rcurl on Fri Sep 19 22:11:51 2003:

It is difficult to find the specialist literature in many topics - but I
presume you have never tried? I'll give you a challenge, if you'd like to
prove me wrong. 



#36 of 44 by dah on Sat Sep 20 01:02:44 2003:

OKAY<GIVE ME THE CHALLENGE!


#37 of 44 by rcurl on Sat Sep 20 05:21:06 2003:

Describe Lispocephala atrimaculata, Lispocephala flavibasis,Lispocephala
unicolor, Lispocephala vernalis.  Maybe in some books they are called
Caricea atrimaculata, Caricea flavibasis, Caricea unicolor, Caricea
vernalis. 



#38 of 44 by twenex on Sat Sep 20 14:26:53 2003:

Circular arguments. how borign. But at least it shows dah is capable of saying
something other than "AH HA HA HA!". Yippee. Something intelligent and
coherent (if also controversial) too. wow.


#39 of 44 by dah on Mon Sep 22 00:36:02 2003:

rcurl: you know I can't do that without degrading degrees.  Why would you ask
me to do something against my principles?


#40 of 44 by rcurl on Mon Sep 22 00:53:38 2003:

Copout....


#41 of 44 by dah on Mon Sep 22 02:03:56 2003:

Do you do things against your principles merely because you're asked to do
them?


#42 of 44 by russ on Mon Sep 22 02:30:05 2003:

(Someone with principles wouldn't be acting like a troll, here or anywhere.)


#43 of 44 by dah on Mon Sep 22 02:34:01 2003:

I guess you don't have principles, here or anywhere.


#44 of 44 by dah on Mon Sep 22 18:19:38 2003:

YEAH


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