Grex Agora46 Conference

Item 202: The Post-Modern President

Entered by gull on Thu Sep 4 23:00:16 2003:

Here's an interesting article I ran across today:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2003/0309.marshall.html
It's too long to post, and my comments here won't really do the argument
justice, so I suggest reading it yourself.

It starts by talking a little about the nature of Presidential
deception, and how Bush's particular style is the "confidently
expressed, but currently undisprovable assertion."  It goes on to
explain why Bush finds it necessary to engage in deception to achieve
his agenda.

The reference to post-modernism refers to one of the traits I've found
most distinctive about the Bush administration -- deciding on policy
goals first, and then coming up with a rationalization for them, instead
of vice versa.  Several examples of this are given in the article, the
most obvious being how drilling in ANWR is suggested as part of the
solution to every problem that comes along.

Another interesting section talks about the Bush tax cut.  I'm going to
quote part of that one directly:

'...cutting taxes was a fundamental goal of his agenda. Politically, it
was a policy on which each part of the once-fractious conservative base
could agree on. It also rewarded the party's biggest donors. But most
importantly, tax cuts would help shift the very premises of American
governance. Republicans had come to view progressive federal taxation as
the linchpin of Democrat strength. As Rep. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.), an
up-and-coming conservative, told The New Yorker's Nicholas Lemann during
the 2001 tax debate, "[t]oday fewer and fewer people pay taxes, and more
and more are dependent on government, so the politician who promises the
most from government is likely to win. Every day, the Republican Party
is losing constituents, because every day more people can vote
themselves more benefits without paying for it." By this theory, the
more the tax burden shifted from upper-middle-class and wealthy voters
to those of the middle class, the more average voters would feel the
sting of each new government program, and the less likely they would be
to support the Democrats who call for such programs. To put it another
way, it was a policy designed to turn more voters into Republicans,
particularly the middle class. Without massive upper-bracket tax cuts,
DeMint worried, "The Reagan message"--smaller government--"won't work
anymore."

'But telling the majority of voters that your tax policies are designed
to shift more of the burden of paying for federal government onto them
is not a very effective way of eliciting their support. So, instead,
Bush pitched his tax cuts as the solution to whatever problems were most
in the news at the time.'

Finally, the article discusses the Bush administration's habit of
dismissing any facts that disagree with their pre-conceived agenda, and
how this has often cut them off from the very experts whose knowledge
they needed to give their plans any chance of success.
36 responses total.

#1 of 36 by aruba on Fri Sep 5 15:16:24 2003:

An interesting article - thanks for the pointer.


#2 of 36 by rcurl on Fri Sep 5 17:46:44 2003:

I like the "Like orthodox Marxists....." observation. Bush and Co have a
fixed ideologie and pick and choose - and distort - their facts to suit
their preconceived passions. I think they are getting stuck deeper and
deeper into a swamp of their own making.

"O, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." (Sir
Walter Scott) 



#3 of 36 by albaugh on Fri Sep 5 18:31:19 2003:

"I never had sex with that young woman."


#4 of 36 by janc on Fri Sep 5 19:51:06 2003:

Frankly, I care a lot more about what America is doing in Iraq than
about what Bill did with Monica.  However, if you want to compare
mendacity levels for recent presidents, this page (referenced in the
article above) is helpful:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2003/0309.mendacity-index.html


#5 of 36 by rcurl on Fri Sep 5 20:49:17 2003:

I like their ranking of the valdity of their survey too. 


#6 of 36 by drew on Fri Sep 5 20:56:26 2003:

This response has been erased.



#7 of 36 by drew on Fri Sep 5 21:07:21 2003:

I'm all for what the article claims Bush is trying to do. Actually, I'm not,
but recognize on conservation-of-mass-energy principles that it is necessary.

But why not simply come clean, and tell the American people straight, that
government programs have to be paid for *somehow*, and that the super-rich
simply don't generate the income to pay for it themselves - not for a quarter
of a billion people they don't.

Sooner or later people are simply going to have to realize this.

Now this isn't to say that we can't make everyone richer in real terms. I've
pointed out the way to do this. But it is not by simple transfer of wealth.


#8 of 36 by pvn on Sat Sep 6 08:33:15 2003:

tautology - quoting an article that says what you want it to say and
then refering to it as it proves your point.


#9 of 36 by janc on Sun Sep 7 13:24:54 2003:

> government programs have to be paid for *somehow*, ... the super-rich
> simply don't generate the income to pay for it themselves - not for a
> quarter of a billion people they don't.

But just a few years ago, we had a budget surplus.  We couldn't be
*that* from being able to pay for things under the old tax system.  So
telling the people that would have the weakness of being obvious
nonsense.


#10 of 36 by drew on Sun Sep 7 20:00:42 2003:

No we didn't.

We only had a "surplus" because Social Security payments and taxes are not
considered to be a part of the "budget". When added in, government dollars
spent still exceeded dollars collected.

The signs of it are evident at the supermarket, the gas pump, the housing
market, etc.


#11 of 36 by russ on Mon Sep 8 03:16:57 2003:

Re #9:  A number of companies are re-stating their earnings from the
bubble years... and filing to reclaim overpaid taxes.  The surplus was
tied to the bubble and its magnitude was equally illusory.


#12 of 36 by gull on Mon Sep 8 15:09:15 2003:

So, wait...they're admitting they lied to everyone about their earnings,
and now they're expecting to get back the taxes they overpaid because of
those lies?  Hell, no.  They should have to pay for their deception.


#13 of 36 by gull on Mon Sep 8 15:14:54 2003:

Recent poll numbers from Zogby:
- 45% rate Bush's job performance as "good" or "excellent.  54% rate
  it as "fair" or "poor".
- 52% say it's time for someone new in the White House. 40% say Bush
  should be reelected.  Likewise, 52% say the country is headed
  in the wrong direction, and 40% say it's headed in the right
  direction.
- Overall opinion of Bush is 54% favorable, 45% unfavorable.
- 40% say they'd choose Bush if the election were held today.
  47% say they'd choose the Democratic candidate.  (In August
  people split 43%-43% on the same question.)
(Margin of error of the poll is 3.2%.  The complete article is here:
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=732)


#14 of 36 by rcurl on Mon Sep 8 16:02:39 2003:

We need to have a likely Democrat candidate before the poll means much.
I recall the polls also show hardly anyone knows who the potential
Democrat candidates are.


#15 of 36 by klg on Mon Sep 8 16:19:14 2003:

You not only need to have a "likely" candidate, you need to subject him 
and his record to close public scrutiny.


#16 of 36 by jep on Mon Sep 8 16:49:24 2003:

Okay, let's do those things.

I hereby order, within the next year, that the Democrats produce a 
likely presidential candidate, and further direct all media sources to 
subject that person to close scrutiny.

But in order that we not be trend-followers here, let's go ahead and 
discuss the president and his opposition as it suits us here on Grex.


#17 of 36 by happyboy on Mon Sep 8 17:02:58 2003:

re15:  does that "close public scrutiny" include the currently
serving guy? 


#18 of 36 by gull on Mon Sep 8 17:15:26 2003:

No, he's protected by "executive privilage", apparently.


#19 of 36 by happyboy on Mon Sep 8 17:16:58 2003:

/whew!


i wonder if he has a toy carrier to play with in the bathtub?


#20 of 36 by scott on Mon Sep 8 19:54:19 2003:

It's pretty funny to hear Republicans talking about possible Vietnam problems
from Dean and/or Kerry's past.  Yup, they bring that up, maybe the press can
bother to address how Bush not only didn't serve in the war, but couldn't even
bother to finish his National Guard hitch?


#21 of 36 by tod on Mon Sep 8 20:17:58 2003:

This response has been erased.



#22 of 36 by happyboy on Mon Sep 8 21:41:31 2003:

even the dude that lost his kicker?  ;)


#23 of 36 by gelinas on Tue Sep 9 02:22:27 2003:

(Kerry was a SEAL in-country in the late 1960's.  It's quite possible that
he was involved in some less than salutory . . . events.  That is, he was if
I have the right Kerry.)


#24 of 36 by scg on Tue Sep 9 02:32:52 2003:

Bob Kerry is the one who lost his leg, and who ran for President a few
primaries ago.  John Kerry is the current candidate, but I don't know what
his military record is.

I suspect military records will become less and less of a political issue,
if they haven't already.  For my generation, joining the military just wasn't
something people from upper middle class backgrounds did.


#25 of 36 by jep on Tue Sep 9 02:38:01 2003:

I didn't know the Kerry who's running now was a different Kerry than 
the one who ran a few elections ago.  Thanks, Steve!


#26 of 36 by russ on Tue Sep 9 03:35:38 2003:

Re #12:  Apparently you don't understand accounting rules.  Any
business over a certain size (a half-dozen employees, IIRC) is
required to perform accounting using the accrual method, rather
than on a cash basis.  "Accrual" means that taxes are due and
payable when income is booked, not when it is actually received.
If a customer, or a bunch of customers suddenly find themselves
unable to pay for products or services that are already booked,
then that revenue has to be restated and the business is owed
a refund on the overpaid taxes.

Same as you.

(Which doesn't mean that the system isn't gamed, and too often; just
that some of this is a consequence of the law.)


#27 of 36 by gelinas on Tue Sep 9 03:40:09 2003:

Yeah, there are two:  Bob Kerry of Oklahoma and John Kerry of Massachusetts.
(I think BK is from Oklahoma and not Nebraska.)


#28 of 36 by aruba on Tue Sep 9 03:49:06 2003:

He's from Nebraska.


#29 of 36 by gelinas on Tue Sep 9 04:24:52 2003:

zero for two; I should play for the Tigers. :(


#30 of 36 by gull on Tue Sep 9 13:31:25 2003:

Re #23: I suspect they'll try to suggest that there is possible
psychological damage, like they did with McCain.  This is just their way
of trying to neutralize any advantage Kerry could get from having
actually served, unlike Bush and Cheney.


#31 of 36 by klg on Tue Sep 9 16:21:22 2003:

Bob Kerry may, indeed, be from Oklahoma; however, Bob Kerrey was a 
senator from Nebraska who ran for presidential nomination of the 
Democratic Party.


#32 of 36 by gelinas on Tue Sep 9 17:45:37 2003:

zero for three.

Thanks, folks. :)


#33 of 36 by polygon on Thu Sep 11 06:51:59 2003:

John Kerry (Massachusetts senator) served in Vietnam, with some
distinction, and afterwards protested against the war. 

Howard Dean was found medically unfit to serve for some reason.

Someone pointed out, though, that if you put Dean and Kerry side by side,
anyone who doesn't know their histories, told that one of them is a war
veteran, and the other never served in the military, would unhesitatingly
choose Dean as having been the veteran.

One of Kerry's most controversial actions, when he was protesting against
the war, was to supposedly throw his war medals over the fence onto the
Capitol lawn or some such.  He now says, no, he never threw his medals
away; he still has them.  But three other guys (who weren't able to be in
Washington that day) had given him their medals and asked him to throw
them over the fence on their behalf. 

So, he says, he threw his own ribbons, and some other guys' medals, but
not his own medals.  Slate's article about this calls this explanation
"extremely nuanced."  See http://slate.msn.com/id/2087554/


#34 of 36 by gull on Thu Sep 11 13:31:30 2003:

Heh.  I believe it, if only because I can't see how he'd expect any
political gain from telling a story like that.  I think the sentiment he
was expressing is probably more important than the exact actions he
took, anyway.



#35 of 36 by sj2 on Sun Sep 14 10:20:42 2003:

How does throwing his medals/ribbons make him a less suitable 
candidate? 

IMHO, he should come out and openly state that he was against the war 
(including the medal throwing thing). However, as a law abiding 
citizen he served in the army and later, as a good citizen, protested 
against what he thought was a flawed US foreign policy. He did his 
duty so he has every right to protest peacefully.


#36 of 36 by tod on Sun Sep 14 17:29:27 2003:

This response has been erased.



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