Grex Agora46 Conference

Item 200: What to read when flat on your back in bed

Entered by keesan on Thu Sep 4 15:47:55 2003:

I will have a lot of time for reading in the next few months.  Usually I read
things like genetics or archeology but I should educate myself given the
chance.  Please list one great book (hopefully pre 1900) by a great author
that I ought to read, English language or in translation, and why.  Jim was
asked to get me some 'light' (under 8 oz paperback) classic fiction from the
library and returned with the Norton Anthology of English Literature so I
already have Beowulf, Chaucer, biographies of various writers (the Victorians
were pretty promiscuous!), essays, lives, etc.  Hardly 'light'.
Please no murder mysteries, anything with much violence, sci fi or westerns,
just the famous stuff that people refer to elsewhere, hopefully annotated.
119 responses total.

#1 of 119 by klg on Thu Sep 4 16:09:56 2003:

Wealth of Nations, Adam Smith


#2 of 119 by dah on Thu Sep 4 18:49:19 2003:

Did Jim take a kitchen scale to the library?


#3 of 119 by tod on Thu Sep 4 19:33:21 2003:

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#4 of 119 by carson on Thu Sep 4 20:07:40 2003:

(it's not pre-1900, but it's close:  _Invitation To A Beheading_ by 
Vladimir Nabokov.)


#5 of 119 by md on Thu Sep 4 21:43:44 2003:

Oliver Goldsmith: The Vicar of Wakefield

http://www.classicreader.com/booktoc.php/sid.1/bookid.1284/


#6 of 119 by gull on Thu Sep 4 22:43:20 2003:

_Life on the Mississippi_ by Mark Twain is one of my favorites, and will
keep you busy for a while.  How much you'll enjoy it depends on how much
you like Mark Twain's style of humor, though.


#7 of 119 by happyboy on Thu Sep 4 23:09:18 2003:

didn't jime get you any de'sade?


#8 of 119 by oval on Thu Sep 4 23:28:43 2003:

Cock & Bull by Will Self. it's a quick read about a woman that sprouts a fully
functional penis followed by the tale of a man who grows a vagina on the back
of his knee.



#9 of 119 by tod on Thu Sep 4 23:52:42 2003:

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#10 of 119 by gelinas on Fri Sep 5 00:00:36 2003:

Dracula, by Bram Stoker.  Frankenstein, by Mary Shelley.  (I've read the
first, but not the last.)

King Solomon's Mines.  The Picture of Dorian Grey (and the rest of Wilde,
while you are at it. ;)

Beau Geste  (may not be pre-1900).

Too bad you eliminated Sir Arthur Conan Doyle; his "Professor Chandler"
stories were fun, too.

Same for H G Wells.  The Invisible Man and The Time Machine are both 'must'
reads.

The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.  Treasure Island.  Kidnapped.

Robinson Crusoe.  Gulliver's Travels.

The complete works of Edgar Allan Poe (the *real* inventor of the modern
mystery story, no matter what pretenders may be put forward).  If you can't
read anything else of his, read "The Purloined Letter."  But "The Raven" and
"The Bells" are both excellent.


#11 of 119 by jep on Fri Sep 5 00:09:16 2003:

Sindi, if you like medieval writing and King Arthur, I recommend the 
works of Chretien de Troyes.  He was a big influence on Mallory, 
writing a couple of hundred years earlier, and gives great insight 
into the origins of the Norman version of the legend of Arthur.

The legend of Arthur has gone through more than a thousand years of 
revision and adaptation.  Everything most people have ever read was 
based on Mallory's "Le Morte D'Arthur", but Mallory stood on the 
shoulders of other giants and adapted their stories a great deal.  
You've got the time.  It can be a lot of fun looking up and reading 
older Arthurian stories.


#12 of 119 by gelinas on Fri Sep 5 00:32:54 2003:

Speaking of Arthur, _The Winter King_ and its two sequels are very recent but
very good, too.


#13 of 119 by dah on Fri Sep 5 00:37:17 2003:

Will someone PLEASE explain to me who in the Hell chooses books based on
WEIGHT?!


#14 of 119 by gelinas on Fri Sep 5 00:42:56 2003:

(Holding a book over your head while reading it gets very tiring, very fast.)


#15 of 119 by remmers on Fri Sep 5 00:45:27 2003:

The Iliad and Odyssey of Homer, preferably in verse translation.
The basis of western literature.

Anything by Nathaniel Hawthorne.


#16 of 119 by dah on Fri Sep 5 01:31:52 2003:

HEY, GELINAS< that MAKES SENSE.  I always get that, myself.


#17 of 119 by mcnally on Fri Sep 5 02:05:41 2003:

  I thought Aylmer Maude's translations of Tolstoy were very well done.
  "War and Peace" is a great novel, and a decent pageturner, but the
  fairy-tale-loving kid in me has always loved Tolstoy's short works
  based on Russian folktales and fables (e.g. "The Tale of Ivan the Fool",
  "How Much Land Does a Man Need", "What Men Live By", etc..)  There's
  a decent collection of these recently published under the title
  "Walk in the Light and Twenty Three Tales."

  Sindi may or may not like the fables.  Tolstoy's spin on them is unabashedly 
  Christian but in an inspirational and not condemnatory sense.  If she
  can get past the religious aspect she'd probably enjoy the political and
  spiritual elements of them.


#18 of 119 by keesan on Fri Sep 5 02:57:55 2003:

I was, among other things, a Russian major, and read Tolstoy, Pushkin, Chekhov
and others in Russian (and War and Peace in English).  Tolstoy's Childhood
is my favorite.

Thanks for a really carefully thought out selection of books.  I will send
JIm after specific titles.  Today he went through the paperback section A-M
and picked out authors he recognized.

The weight is because I am reading in bed mostly on my back with the book
propped up on a small pillow on my lap which leaves two hands free.  I sit
up 1/2 hour at a time, walk a few minutes (looking for things to make me walk
- I went after the sewing kit but Jim had piled a lot of stuff on top that
is still on the floor - I have some trouble getting things off the floor).

Jim weighed a couple of nice art books he got me first time I sent him for
something lightweight - 1.9 kilos.  He was going to get me one that was twice
that weight but it was reference.  

I have no fat for padding.  The extra weight lands on my bones against the
futon.

I am thinking I might want some sort of history of English fiction to go with
the reading.  Norton (which is also sort of heavy) has good biographies of
the authors who did poetry, plays, essays, but not novels.  Please recommend
some good books bout English literature.


World literature - I have read Tale of GEnji and Dream of the Red Chamber and
a bit of Boccacio and Don Quixote.  What are the best few books of other
cultures? Borges confuses me.  Egyptian, Syrian...?


#19 of 119 by scott on Fri Sep 5 04:20:07 2003:

Get Jim to rig up a sheet of (plexiglass) over your pillow, at reading height.
Nice big books will have more words per page, requiring less frequent page
turns.


#20 of 119 by mcnally on Fri Sep 5 05:04:58 2003:

  re #18:  given your experience in Eastern European languages I figured 
  there was a pretty decent chance you'd already read lots and lots of 
  Tolstoy but I figured it was worth posting anyway, as other Grexers
  might be scanning this item for recommendations as well.

  On a completely different note, and for something much more lighthearted
  than Russian literature :-) you might enjoy some of Bill Bryson's humorous
  travel books, particularly "A Walk in the Woods" and "Notes From a Small
  Island" which deal, respectively, with walking the Appalachian Trail and
  walking around Britain..  I've enjoyed the sense they give of being 
  someplace else and I can imagine that right about now there's an awful
  lot of places you might rather be..


#21 of 119 by jaklumen on Fri Sep 5 05:44:26 2003:

It's short, but I thoroughly enjoyed Gaston LeRoux's "Phantom of The 
Opera" as the prototype for the detective novel.


#22 of 119 by happyboy on Fri Sep 5 07:51:44 2003:

which is a nice read while playing a cd of the 
zoogz rift classic: "Mobey Penis"


#23 of 119 by earnal on Fri Sep 5 07:55:58 2003:

I suggest Mika WAltari's "The Egyptian", John Julius Norwich's "A Short Story
of Byzantium and jared Diamod's "Guns, Germs & Steel" ... GREAT BOOKS!!! ALL
OF THEM!


#24 of 119 by happyboy on Fri Sep 5 08:03:44 2003:

Rivethead by Ben Hamper


#25 of 119 by cmcgee on Fri Sep 5 11:19:28 2003:

English Lit:  Pride and Prejudice, Lord Jim, Wuthering Heights, Northanger
Abbey.  Conrad in general has thoughfutl tales of expatriots.  The Brontes
and Austen had a wonderful eye for social customs and ironies.  Conrad's are
more adventure/action stories.  The Brontes and Austen are more oriented to
daily life.  


#26 of 119 by gelinas on Fri Sep 5 12:36:13 2003:

Kipling and Saki.


#27 of 119 by gull on Fri Sep 5 13:25:29 2003:

By the way, some of the older books people have mentioned here may be
available online from the Guetenberg Project, if you have a comfortable
way to read electronic texts.


#28 of 119 by aruba on Fri Sep 5 15:24:53 2003:

I'll second the recommendation of Wuthering Heights - I'm not an afficianado
of 19th century literature, but I liked that one a lot.

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, by Robert Pisig, is not pre-1900,
but it's good anyway.


#29 of 119 by keesan on Fri Sep 5 15:30:37 2003:

Jim got out Northanger Abbey in paperback, and a Conrad.  I am not up to
reading things on the computer for long yet. 

What Jim got me from the library in A-M paperback.

And why I am avoiding the 20th century classics as they are rather strong on
death and violence and general misery.

Jack London short stories - all about people freezing to death or killing each
other.
Hemingway stories about people killing each other and making each  other
miserable.
Graham Greene stories which I have no idea of what they are supposed to
accomplish.  Are they funny?

Turn of the Screw/Daisy Miller - Henry James.  We had to read Turn of the
Screw in high school.  Ghost story.

Austen Northanger Abbey.  Will rerea.  Good intro.  Bantam.

Snow Country (Japanese) 20th century about unhappy people.

Jim says he eats 700 calories of popcorn a day (wrong item).

George Eliot Adam Bede 

Sinclair Lewis Main St. (read it twice, nobody tries to kill anyone)

Jude the Obscure (too close to 20th century, everyone unhappy)


Dickens Oliver Twist (Jim liked the movie).  I find Dickens annoying as a
writer and he was a jerk.

Cooper Last of the Mohicans.  I hated this in high school and will get a
chance to remember why.  I don't think I like action novels.

Conrad Heart of Darkness.  Not for reading in the middle of the night when
things keep me awake

Charlotte Bronte Shirley (no other Bronte paperbacks there).

Joyce Dubliners - what should I be getting out of this? 

Wish there were lightweight paperback books on recent science.

The appalachian trail book sounds fun - we hiked part of it for a day, Mount
Jim, and fed fresh potatoes to people grateful they were not freeze dried.
They were fanatics and would not skip any part of the trail even if it meant
backtracking to get back to it after going to the post office to pick up their
CARE packages from home with the freeze dried food.  Some people who wanted
to do the whole trail in one season started in the south and walked half way
north, then flew to the north end and walked south to the middle to avoid the
hot weather in mid summer.  We hiked up to the top with a wok and hiked down
and it got dark and we camped next to the trail and discovered in the morning
we were 100 feet from the road.  People were looking at us funny.

Any recommendations of other good travel books or autobiographies or
biographies?


#30 of 119 by keesan on Fri Sep 5 15:32:55 2003:

Somewhere we have a couple of little tables that go over you in bed but I
don't know if they are just for sitting up and eating on or you can get them
low enough for reading.  I hope to be able to sit up more soon.


#31 of 119 by mynxcat on Fri Sep 5 15:38:18 2003:

(maybe this should be linked to books?)


#32 of 119 by tod on Fri Sep 5 16:31:41 2003:

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#33 of 119 by gelinas on Fri Sep 5 16:32:39 2003:

The Dubliners is probably a good introduction to Joyce.  Its short stories
are not as full of the stream-of-consciousness that characterises Ullysses
and Finnigan's Wake and so are still accessible.  They are about people
living in Dublin, Ireland, at or about the turn of the century.  I should
re-read it.


#34 of 119 by mynxcat on Fri Sep 5 16:32:41 2003:

Though I agree that he was annoying as a writer.


#35 of 119 by mynxcat on Fri Sep 5 16:33:14 2003:

Joe slipped in. The "he" I'm referring to is Dickens.


#36 of 119 by gelinas on Fri Sep 5 16:35:05 2003:

For minute, I thought it was me. ;)


#37 of 119 by tod on Fri Sep 5 16:51:59 2003:

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#38 of 119 by mynxcat on Fri Sep 5 16:54:10 2003:

I do not know


#39 of 119 by tod on Fri Sep 5 17:12:40 2003:

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#40 of 119 by mynxcat on Fri Sep 5 17:13:49 2003:

I said he was an annoying writing, IMO. Sindi called him a jerk


#41 of 119 by rcurl on Fri Sep 5 17:32:53 2003:

Dickens was paid by the word.....

Maybe this should be linked to humor? Sindi is being given a universal list
of great and not-so-great books from people with a multitude of reading
preferences. She might as well be reading the library card catalog (which
is on line - great characters but not much of a plot). 


#42 of 119 by tod on Fri Sep 5 17:57:03 2003:

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#43 of 119 by happyboy on Fri Sep 5 18:18:26 2003:

read some bukowski!


#44 of 119 by tod on Fri Sep 5 18:26:26 2003:

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#45 of 119 by gull on Fri Sep 5 19:17:51 2003:

Re #42:  I think people expect more from Dickens because he wrote
"classics".  No one is going to be reading "Rush Limbaugh Is A Big Fat
Idiot" in 100 years.


#46 of 119 by tod on Fri Sep 5 20:24:25 2003:

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#47 of 119 by jep on Fri Sep 5 21:23:56 2003:

Until this century, the "classics" were the books everyone read and 
liked and gave to their children, who read them and liked them.  Mark 
Twain and Charles Dickens and Thomas Mallory and Shakespeare are great 
for that reason.

Nowadays, the "classics" are defined by experts in literature.  They 
give "classic" books awards like the Nobel Prize for Literature, or the 
Pulitzer Prize, on the basis that they can't be understood by most 
people, or enjoyed by anyone.  To the modern experts, the concept of 
the story is old hat; it's outdated.  I have no idea what 
modern "classics" are about or what they're for.  If I could know that, 
they wouldn't be defined as classics.

The stuff I read is stuff even my grandparents, or their grandparents, 
could have enjoyed if they were around now.  I like stories, and don't 
consider post-modern writing to be interesting at all.  I am 
uncultured, because I have not adapted to the definitions of those who 
have redesigned greatness.  


#48 of 119 by tod on Fri Sep 5 21:48:24 2003:

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#49 of 119 by dah on Fri Sep 5 22:15:08 2003:

Thomas Pynchon is not a jerk.


#50 of 119 by mcnally on Sat Sep 6 00:35:42 2003:

  re #47:  Please..  The canon of western literature has long been filled
  with boring or pretentious works that practically nobody enjoys (hands up
  from everyone who had to read "Ethan Frome" in high school!) and yet
  classic tales which touch on timeless themes manage to survive year after
  year. 

  But then you don't really feel uncultured -- in fact you're showing all
  the signs of feeling a smug superiority of those who also enjoy newer
  literature..


#51 of 119 by jep on Sat Sep 6 02:02:59 2003:

Not at all!  I think it's great there are people who like that stuff.  
I do, however, respectfully object to them being allowed the power to 
declare their preferences -- inaccessible to most literate people -- 
to be "the great works of literature".  Real culture is not exclusive 
by design.


#52 of 119 by mcnally on Sat Sep 6 02:57:09 2003:

  Nobody has allotted them that power.  To whatever extent you care about
  the books other people tell you you're supposed to like, that's your own
  failing.


#53 of 119 by scott on Sat Sep 6 13:01:32 2003:

I can't suggest much, with the initial rejection of science fiction.  I'd be
pretty curious as to why "no sci-fi", though.  Some stuff like Ursula LeGuin
is extremely good stuff which is just barely about the future, or rocket
ships, or whatever else tends to define science fiction for most people.


#54 of 119 by keesan on Sat Sep 6 14:31:16 2003:

So what 19th century sci fi do you recommend?  I used to read sci-fi in junior
high.  My brother is an addict and goes all over the world to conventions.

My favorite (read-over-again) fictions:

To Kill a Mockingbird - beautifully written, good plot, good characters, but
the author never wrote again.  Why try to improve on perfection.

Anything by the modern Indian writer (who lived all over the place) Vikram
Seth.  Golden Gate novel in prose set in SF about an assortment of typical
characters leading complicated lives and being nice to each other.  A book
on how he managed (illegally) to return from being a student in China to his
home in India by the direct overland route.  A Suitable Boy novel set in India
about real people being nice to each other.  A strange one about musicians
whose title I forget.

I heard of him because the translator's journal had had part of Golden Gate
translated to Russian.

The Once and Future King was fun.

Post 1900 art and music and literature other than the popular stuff seem
designed more for the critics than the audience.

Jim liked 'Opera in America'  (Jim, that is not fiction).  It described the
opera houses too.  Social history.


#55 of 119 by scott on Sat Sep 6 18:06:28 2003:

I'd recommend almost anything by Ursula K. LeGuin, although she's not 19th
century since she's still alive and writing.  "The Lathe of Heaven" is a
pretty good starter - it's about dreaming.  Most of her stuff is essentially
sci-fi because it is set in some far future, but basically it's a way for her
to set up her characters in much different societies than we have in reality.


#56 of 119 by katie on Sat Sep 6 18:34:14 2003:

My favorite writer is Ferrol Sams. He has a book of short stories called,
"The Widow's Mite," and a series of three books about one Porter Osborne,
Jr. And a couple others.


#57 of 119 by anderyn on Sun Sep 7 02:29:46 2003:

I just finished an interesting book called "HEre's to the Ladies", by Carla
Kelly, about the frontier forts in the late 1800s. She worked as a ranger and
living historian at a couple of the forts, and these are fascinating stories.
But of course it was published this year. Recommended anyhow. She used several
true incidents in her stories and, as a writer, she is very upbeat, even wehn
the story is tragic. She lets the quiet heroism of everyday kindness and life
shine through. 

If you want 19th century, I'd recommend Kipling (I love Kipling, both his
poetry and his prose -- Kim is my favorite, although I 've read Stalky and
Co. about twenty times in the last three years) and H. Rider Haggard (She is
his most famous work, I think, although I like King Solomon's Mines) -- I read
him when I was in kindergarden, which started a lifelong adoration of things
Egyptian and pharaonic.


#58 of 119 by gelinas on Sun Sep 7 05:38:08 2003:

I've already mentioned R. L. Stevenson, H. G. Wells and A. C. Doyle, all who
wrote scienti-fiction in the 19th century.  (Jekyll and Hyde, The Time
Machine, The Invisible Man and the various Dr. Chandler stories.)


#59 of 119 by remmers on Sun Sep 7 12:43:18 2003:

And then of course there's Jules Verne -- "Twenty Thousand Leagues
under the Sea", "From the Earth to the Moon", etc.


#60 of 119 by gelinas on Sun Sep 7 15:43:16 2003:

(NB:  That should be "Professor Chandler"; I don't know that he was a doctor.)


#61 of 119 by keesan on Sun Sep 7 16:00:54 2003:

I read Kim twice but not the other Kiplings.  I have downloaded this item and
we will see what is in the catalog.  Today I am still so exhausted from our
day on the town Friday that I have no energy to even turn pages so it may be
a video day instead.  I can type with my arms resting on the table.


#62 of 119 by janc on Sun Sep 7 16:17:03 2003:

My recommendations is to go to http://www.commonreader.com/  The "Common
Reader" also has a very nice print catalog.  This is a book company run
by compulsive readers.  Every book they list is a book they have read
and liked, and the advertisements are personally written reviews of the
books not publisher's ads.  Of course, all the reviews are glowing,
because they pretty much only sell the books they liked.  For me, this
has been the the most reliably successful way to browse for books.  I
haven't liked every book I've bought there - the people there have good
taste in books, but not everyone's taste is the same - but none of them
have been dogs either. Their prices aren't necessarily the lowest on the
net, but I usually try to buy books I found through their catalog from
them anyway.


#63 of 119 by keesan on Sun Sep 7 19:27:26 2003:

I wont' be buying books.  Tried to use the library catalog but it was not
accessible this morning.  I only buy dictionaries. Saves space, the library
can buy the others.  They take requests and bought all sorts of strange things
that we asked for including a book on what we thought was residential but
turned out to be agricultural insulation techniques.  We could heat the house
with pigs or apples.

Here are some suggestions from another translator (who is doing a lot of
reading while waiting around for radiation).

-----------------
<<I am going to educate myself about literature.  The local computer
conferencing people are all listing their favorite books.  Sort of random
way to study.>>

I have an eclectic bunch of favorites.  
Do w/this list what you will.

from h.s.:
the trilogy by Sigrid Undset [Kristen Lavransdatter, The Ax, and The Cross, I 
think]; she got a Nobel prize for the first one in the '30's.  Story of a 
young girl in 14th century Norway and her life and experiences.  Fascinating to
 me then and now.  

from college:
Catch 22 by Heller

from afterwards:
The World According to Garp by Irving
[wonderful quirkiness, combination of comedy and tragedy and the unlikely.  a 
couple of my female friends hate Irving and Garp, bkz they are anti-feminist. 
 I just enjoyed it for what it was; guess I'm not PC enough in the eyes of 
some people. ohwell]

anything by Nelson DeMille, but the best is Gold Coast, second best Word of 
Honor.
[for fun; sharp writing, my first response to Gold Coast was--wow, he writes 
popular books expecting that his audience will actually have a brain]

amazing little books:
Painted Bird by Jerzy Kozinsky
King Rat by ..... can't think of the author.  same guy who wrote Shogun I 
think.  Ah. yes.  James Clavell.

novels by Pat Conroy [I'm reading Prince of Tides now, and loved Beach Music 
-- two good beach reads].  His first autobiographical book was interesting -- 
The Water is Wide - and this summer I went to Daufuskie Island where it 
actually took place [he taught in a 2-room still-segregated schoolhouse in
1969]

Anthony Adverse [one of my mother's; a fascinating book at the time I read 
it, though I can't tell you now any of the details]

Tom Jones by Fielding

for fun and mental gymnastics, I enjoy some detective novels written by 
women:  Reichs' books:  Deja Dead, for instance, and Patricia Cornwell's books 
w/Kay Scarpetta character in them, and Grafton's A is for Alimony series, B is 
for..... etc.



Comments?






#64 of 119 by gelinas on Mon Sep 8 00:46:13 2003:

I don't think you'll like Grafton's books: too much violence.  I like
them, though.

King Rat was the first Clavell book I read.  It turned out to be the
first in his Oriental series:  King Rat, Shogun, Tai-pan and Noble House.
(He may have written another after Noble House.  Noble House links them
all together.)  I liked these books, too.

I remembered an American book to add to the list: _The Virginian_, by
Owen Wister.  If I remember correctly, the chapters were originally short
stories written for magazine publication.  He adds a frame to tie them
together into a novel.  I thought the ending a little weak, but it was
still worth reading.  I suspect this was the first appearance of things
that later became cliches.


#65 of 119 by jep on Mon Sep 8 03:22:55 2003:

I'm reading "Shogun" right now.  I'm not sure I like it enough to look 
up Clavell's other books, but am only just starting the 2nd volume so 
maybe it'll dazzle me later.


#66 of 119 by gelinas on Mon Sep 8 03:32:16 2003:

Second volume?  I remember Shogun being a single paperback.  Thick, but just
one volume.


#67 of 119 by clees on Mon Sep 8 10:07:36 2003:

Segou by Marise Condee. But I honestly don't know if it's translated 
into english


#68 of 119 by jep on Mon Sep 8 10:54:37 2003:

In hardcover, Shogun came out as two volumes.


#69 of 119 by keesan on Mon Sep 8 13:16:57 2003:

What classic and good Dutch fiction is available in English?  I don't recall
ever reading any at all?  Jim has heard of Shogun.


#70 of 119 by keesan on Tue Sep 9 01:32:30 2003:

Jim brought me seven books, all 20th century.  He had carefully printed things
out and alphabetized by title.  The library does it by author.


#71 of 119 by goose on Tue Sep 9 02:27:26 2003:

"The Decline of the West" Oswald Spengler


#72 of 119 by other on Tue Sep 9 03:16:10 2003:

"Girls Lean Back Everywhere" by Edward De Grazia
        How the current interpretation of the First Amendment with regard to 
obscenity developed.  Includes excerpts from several publications which 
were subjected to prosecution in their respective eras.

"A Fish Caught In Time" by Samantha Weinberg
        The fascinating story of the relatively recent discovery of living 
members of a species of fish thought to have been extinct for over 400 
million years -- the Coelecanth. 

"Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman" by Richard P. Feynman
        Stories and anecdotes by and from the life of one of the greatest 
science educators of modern times.

"Pimp" by Iceberg Slim
        What can I say?  Read it.  It's a bit dated, but it is a fascinating 
window on a subculture.


#73 of 119 by aruba on Tue Sep 9 03:47:32 2003:

I'll second the recommendation of Feynman's autobiographies.  They're a lot
of fun.


#74 of 119 by clees on Tue Sep 9 06:19:54 2003:

Keesan, 
there aren't many Dutch writers translated into English. Names that 
come into mind are: Jan Wolkers (not so good, very 70s), Harry Mulisch 
(a tad better, but pretentious), Frederik Hermans (one of my favs, but 
I wouldn't know whether he ever made it to translations)
Some modern day writers (80s, 90s. Mostly poorly done, but youths tend 
to like this violent, shitty, drug scene kind of books)
Alltime fav: Multatuli with the book Max Havelaar.


#75 of 119 by dah on Tue Sep 9 11:44:39 2003:

WHAT THE FUCK IS PRETENTIOUS WRITING?  SOMEONE PLEASE PRETENTIOUSLY WRITE ME
A PARAGRAPH SO I MAY SEE SUCH.


#76 of 119 by oval on Tue Sep 9 16:05:08 2003:

^^^^

i'd recommend also reading any of the Sarai Reader editions. i am on the first
one and it's quite good. http://www.sarai.net/

you could ask the library to get these or maybe i could send you a copy when
i'm done...

www.autonomedia.org is a good source of things too.



#77 of 119 by keesan on Tue Sep 9 16:19:48 2003:

Are there any good classic Dutch books pre 1900 worth reading?

I have at least a weeks' reading before Jim goes back for more.  Jim says to
print the authors very clearly this time spelled last name first (with van
etc.)


#78 of 119 by remmers on Tue Sep 9 16:49:38 2003:

Well, if you don't mind going back to the 15th century, there's
Erasmus of Rotterdam, author of "In Praise of Folly" and other
blasphemous writings.  (Erasmus was a secular humanist type
guy.)  It's not fiction, though.


#79 of 119 by keesan on Tue Sep 9 22:08:13 2003:

I am looking at Prince of Tides.  I have learned to ignore the summaries on
the jackets which tend to be unrelated to the book itself.  I wonder who
writes them.  'dark and violent past'  'dusty glitter'  'huge brash
thunderstorm of a novel'  'she is willing to sell her kids down the river to
achieve them' (is this English?)  'cruel patriarch'  'shocking fate'.  Makes
it sound like a cheap thriller.  The reviews are written much better.

I do a lot of my reading in the middle of the night when I cannot sleep.  This
one is a bit heavy and does not stay propped open.  Never thought I would
judge a book by its binding.



#80 of 119 by jmsaul on Tue Sep 9 23:21:08 2003:

I like Van de Wetering, but his books are certainly violent in places.


#81 of 119 by other on Wed Sep 10 00:55:12 2003:

Did you even consider my suggestions?  All of them were enjoyable and 
edifying reading.


#82 of 119 by keesan on Wed Sep 10 13:55:33 2003:

I only got a few books from the list suggested by the other translator so far.
The rest is printed out on two pages.  My library website is no longer working
(they must have changed something) so Jim went to the librarians and got a
new URL which I will help him figure out how to use today, to see what is
actually available at the library.  I condensed the suggestions (up through
a few days ago) to two pages of titles and authors and we will work on those
next.  Lots of interesting looking books there.  Maybe I can handle hardcovers
in a week or two.

I looked at Ursula LeGuin but cannot get interested in fantasy, sorry.  It
was educational to see what she has been writing, which seems well done but
not for me.

Currently reading Gold Coast, 1990 but said to be a classic already, and quite
well written.  It does of course have a fair amount of sex and violence but
I guess you are stuck with that if someone is trying to be a best selling
author.  The intro was interesting -apparently books are now written by
authors working with agents and publishers and movie companies.

I read Northanger Abbey when I could not get back to sleep until 3 am.  That
was skinny enough to hold in one hand.


#83 of 119 by aruba on Wed Sep 10 20:31:11 2003:

I just finished *Seabiscuit*, by Laura Hillenbrand.  I know almost nothing
about horseracing, but the book is very entertaining and very carefully
researched.  And it was written by a woman who rarely leaves her apartment,
because of illness.  I recommend it.


#84 of 119 by keesan on Wed Sep 10 23:13:40 2003:

Time to print out a third page.  The online catalog is not terribly convenient
compared to what is at the library (maybe with pictures it works better) but
if you type in the author you get a list of works.  I tried typing in a title
(A Walk in the Woods, which is by Bill Bryson) and got not that title but
everything they have by the author.  They don't have that book but they have
some other travel books and several on the history of English in America, for
instance.

Jim looked up Jared Diamond and found six copies (?) of Guns, Germs and Steel,
which he said he read (on tape) - how the natives here were killed by disease.

We will continue with the library catalog but I have reading matter for a week
here already (and ten videos including Dinner with Andre, which I can take
about 20 minutes of at a time).


#85 of 119 by sj2 on Thu Sep 11 09:15:23 2003:

Q. What do read ...... back??

A. The tattoo on your girlfriend's (.)(.)


#86 of 119 by other on Thu Sep 11 13:25:48 2003:

Keesan doesn't have a girlfriend, of that sort anyway.  (I'm assuming 
here, but just call it a hunch.)


#87 of 119 by keesan on Thu Sep 11 16:01:19 2003:

Keesan has lots of girlfriends all over the world.  None have tatoos.
I read Gold Coast which was well written but I could have done with less sex
and violence.  I suppose he had to throw in enough to make it sell.  That is
the problem with 20th c books, they are written usually to sell.  Not that
Dickens did not have the same problem, I guess, plus the 19th c people had
to plan on serialization.
Reading Jude the Obscure.  The sex object just threw a piece of dead pig at
the hero.  This must be symbolic of her lack of intellectual background (her
father raises pigs).  The hero is busy teaching himself dead languages. 
Clearly not the ideal match but what is a novel without conflict?


#88 of 119 by dah on Thu Sep 11 18:57:26 2003:

Huh?


#89 of 119 by keesan on Thu Sep 11 20:41:32 2003:

Today after blood draw we talked to the nurse who explained what to expect
at the next chemotherapy which adds a new chemical Rituxin that takes 4 hours
by itself and may cause fever or chills in which case they slow it down.  The
remaining sessions will only be about 5 hours total.  I get a bed, or a chair,
and can walk a few feet from it if I get bored.  Bring lunch (and maybe
supper).  Eat first.  Six days of prednisone pills in addition.  On the way
back we stopped at the library.  There is no need for me to wear a mask or
avoid people this week.  Only bone marrow people wear masks.  We did not have
the list this time.  Bill Bryson is popular and everything is on loan.  I got
some more paperbacks of authors I recognized and some videos.  We are picking
up my armchair and some small cushions so I don't need to lie in bed all day.
Had to clear a path to it first.  

Jim thought my fried vegetables in a bread crust looked good last week so he
got two this week.  Sort of greasy but he liked his 1.5.  From the hosp.
cafeteria for $4 each plus tax.

Time to go recover and watch videos.  Jim wants to get me more ice cream. 
I did not each too much of the last box of it ;)  

Our friend who works at the hospital was walking in late to work just before
Jim came back for me with the car and has lots more pears.  Which reminds me
we need to get the dryer.  Maybe I have the energy (before Monday) to peel
and core pears.  


#90 of 119 by keesan on Thu Sep 11 20:42:14 2003:

Got to the library, but without the list.  See 167.


#91 of 119 by klg on Fri Sep 12 00:55:46 2003:

Used a reclining chair.  Was able to walk about 30 ft. to the restroom, 
which you need to do occasionally, especially since that red stuff goes 
right through you.

4-5 hrs is about right.  Other patients (breast ca?) came and left a lot 
quicker.

RNs also gave me some meds (benadryl?) to start off the day.  Didn't 
appreciate the sleepiness, so asked that the dosage be cut down on 
subseqent treatments.

Had Rituxan from the start, but was scheduled for only 6 cycles.  Made 
me warm/feverish the first time, so the rns slowed the drip to a 
trickle.  Didn't seem to have any immediate side effects thereafter.  
Was explained that Rituxan had been tried on older ppl & seemed to be 
beneficial, so they began to use it on younger folk, altho they didn't 
know if it would work on us.  Read an article about a person who was 
treated with just Rituxan when he had a relapse.


#92 of 119 by keesan on Fri Sep 12 17:26:28 2003:

Jim's sister gave him a list of her favorite authors of detective novels set
in ancient Rome.  She says there is minimal violence.

I got out Island by Aldous Huxley, 1962, the era of psychotherapy curing
everything, pre HIV.  Some books could only have been written during certain
decades.  


#93 of 119 by clees on Mon Sep 15 06:27:52 2003:

Sindy, Multatuli's Max Havelaar is pre 1900.


#94 of 119 by gelinas on Mon Sep 15 07:35:28 2003:

If you've not yet read it, _Musashi_ is interesting.  The translation I read
is recent, but Musashi was a 17th century Samurai.


#95 of 119 by happyboy on Mon Sep 15 16:44:52 2003:

basho: narrow road to the far north


#96 of 119 by keesan on Tue Sep 16 17:37:35 2003:

I will make a complete list and see if I can get to the library again.  I
don't need to go out again for ten days.  I may try using the online catalog
and sending Jim for books when I come closer to running out.  I am currently
reading Emma (left by slynne, thanks) and Tom Jones and watching a library
video made for british TV about how a family volunteered to live three months
in a house restored to 1900.  They are having trouble with the coal stove and
doing laundry by hand.  I bet they never went camping.  It sounds pretty
luxurious to me compared to places I have lived in other countries.  March
(England is warm enough not to need coats then), running hot and cold water
to the tub, a flush toilet outside and a pan to use at night, a stove instead
of a fireplace, paved floor, a special copper tub  for laundry, a bathtub.
I lived one place with an outhouse at the far end of the garden, a cold-water
faucet and cement sink outdoors as the only plumbing, no heating, a wood stove
in the kitchen (the landlady slept there - she smoked so I cooked in my room
on an alcohol stove from Greece with two heats, on or off).  I got one bucket
a week of hot water to wash me (in a screened unheated area) and my laundry
(outdoors at the faucet),.  I left in November.  Outside the city people got
their water from wells, often at a distance.


#97 of 119 by slynne on Tue Sep 16 17:42:23 2003:

I really liked that PBS show, 1900's House. I liked the other ones they 
have done too, like Frontier House, 1940's House and Manor House. 


#98 of 119 by happyboy on Tue Sep 16 19:26:22 2003:

poop on the floor house


#99 of 119 by slynne on Tue Sep 16 19:34:33 2003:

I have an elderly dog so they might be able to film that one in my 
house soon. 


#100 of 119 by keesan on Tue Sep 16 22:25:23 2003:

I had not heard of the 1900 house being shown here on TV, but I guess that
explains the American-language commentary.  I hope they kept the house
afterwards as a museum.  I live in a 1920s house (original sink, kitchen
cabinets and linoleum) and have lived in 1850 and 1840 but there was
electricity.  Upstairs in one of the houses was a round switch that you
turned, and I have one pushbutton type (I put that one in myself).  What was
the 1940s house like?  (I lived in a 1950s apartment when growing up in the
1950s but the house was probably 1900).


#101 of 119 by remmers on Wed Sep 17 02:51:25 2003:

I'd be interested in seeing 1940's House if they rebroadcast it.
My early childhood was spent in a 1940's house, so I'm curious
how well their re-enactment fits with my memories.


#102 of 119 by happyboy on Wed Sep 17 07:35:30 2003:

eating-paintchips-off-of-the-floor-ghetto house


#103 of 119 by remmers on Wed Sep 17 11:11:42 2003:

I predict they won't do that one.


#104 of 119 by tpryan on Wed Sep 17 18:29:06 2003:

        1940's house was a wonderfully series.  It took the family
to the left side of what we would call of duplex in a London
neighborhood, starting them at the eve of WWII in England.  In 
the time the family spent there, they went through the entire
war, including rationing and loss of supplies.


#105 of 119 by other on Wed Sep 17 20:12:58 2003:

...and Luftwaffe bombing runs?


#106 of 119 by other on Wed Sep 17 20:14:06 2003:

(They'd have to be careful with that, lest they suddenly need to change 
the name of the series to "1940's Rubble.")


#107 of 119 by remmers on Wed Sep 17 21:16:03 2003:

Ah, so it was a British 1940's house during WW II.  Probably much
different from the Indiana 1940's house that I grew up in.


#108 of 119 by bru on Wed Sep 17 22:30:40 2003:

The farmhouse I grew up in was built in the 1860's and had gas lighting
fixtures converted to electicity.  It was double walled brick, and had a
carriage house attached to the rear made of wood.


#109 of 119 by slynne on Thu Sep 18 00:41:34 2003:

I hear they are filming another series like that. Colonial House or 
something. They are going to do a whole town though so it might be 
called something different. I almost applied to be a part of it but 
decided that I didnt want to torture myself like that. 


#110 of 119 by tpryan on Fri Sep 19 21:15:02 2003:

        Yup, they had to build an Anderson.  They then got loudspeaker
air raid blasts at any time, as done by the crew taking care of the 
family.  the family also got some vintage radio shows/newscasts.


#111 of 119 by keesan on Sat Sep 20 00:25:46 2003:

Yesterday we watched one of two Sister Wendy art videos that slynne dropped
off.  She is rather opinionated but they were fun.  Cleveland.  I am nearly
done with Tom Jones, started Adam Bede, and may tackle the library catalog
online again soon as we are running short on bread and cheese and the library
is not far from the coop.


#112 of 119 by happyboy on Sat Sep 20 01:44:15 2003:

sister wendy is cool, slynne turned me on to her as well.


#113 of 119 by slynne on Sat Sep 20 03:35:18 2003:

Sister Wendy always makes me smile


#114 of 119 by keesan on Sun Sep 21 17:44:16 2003:

I read Emma, Auntie Mame, and Wuthering Heights, all from slynne.


#115 of 119 by gelinas on Mon Sep 22 03:34:02 2003:

I can't remember the name of the author of Auntie Mame, but he also wrote
about an attempt to make a movie in Mexico.  Fun stuff!


#116 of 119 by keesan on Mon Sep 22 13:13:21 2003:

Last night I read Waterlily, also from slynne, a fictional account of life
among the Dakota Sioux, including the distribution by the White Man of
blankets with smallpox.  Lots of people also died of other infectious diseases
and were killed by 'the enemy'.  In all the 19th century novels people were
also dying like flies in infancy, in childbirth, or from 'a fever' caught by
getting wet feet.  In Wuthering Heights the author managed to kill off 4 of
6 main characters and get the two narrators sick for a month each as well.
The richer people got sick more in the novels - maybe because they kept
marrying their first cousins.  

Lilyflower's author was the third wife of someone whose first two wives (and
two kids) died of some infectious disease.   Maybe the flu used to be worse?


#117 of 119 by remmers on Mon Sep 22 13:26:27 2003:

Re #115: Author of Auntie Mame is Patrick Dennis.


#118 of 119 by keesan on Mon Sep 22 17:48:51 2003:

Patrick Dennis is a fictional name for the real author.  It was originally
just a collection of short stories that got strung together as a novel and
then made into two movies, a play and a musical.  We watched part of the first
movie but it was too full of tobacco smoke.  Rosalind Russell in the first
movie, Lucy in the second (as in I Love Lucy).

There was also a tremendous amount of smoke in Waterlily - it must have been
pretty awful in those tipis.


#119 of 119 by gelinas on Mon Sep 22 17:59:20 2003:

Thank you, John.  All I could remember was "Pat". :(

Doesn't look like AADL has the book I was thinking of.  I'll have to try
something else to find it.


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