Grex Agora46 Conference

Item 169: Sleep disorders

Entered by jaklumen on Fri Aug 22 00:51:09 2003:

Well, I thought I'd write some on the wonderful little process I'm 
going to embark on.

I finally checked in for my appointment to the sleep clinic today and 
saw the doctor.  First the nurse came in and did the usual stuff 
nurses do-- checked weight and blood pressure, but she measured my 
neck as well.  Neck measurement *is* a factor: here's why.  The 
problem with sleep apnea is caused by the epiglottis relaxing during 
sleep so much that it restricts breathing-- and the brain somehow 
doesn't tell those muscles to constrict to allow freer breathing.  
Obesity puts fatty tissue on the muscle, making the problem worse.

Fortunately, I am on an eating plan that is reducing the fat on my 
body, so hopefully that will help.

I saw the doctor next, who listened to my lungs and asked a lot of 
questions about my sleep, health, (allergies) family history, and 
such.  My sister grinds her teeth, for example, REALLY bad.  She 
couldn't escape braces forever (long story behind that comment).  He 
also explained about the sleep study and the monitoring equipment 
they'd attach to me for the night-- if I remember right, there will be 
two electrodes on my head, two sensors just inside my nose, some on my 
chest, a oxygen sensor on the tip on my finger, and some on my legs 
and feet.

I asked about the breathing machine and about a humidifying option.  
He said that would be a good idea, especially for folks with allergy 
problems like me.
48 responses total.

#1 of 48 by glenda on Fri Aug 22 01:31:13 2003:

The only thing that could be found as a possible cause of STeve's stroke about
2 years ago was sleep apnea (I had been telling him he should have it checked
for years, but...)  He is on a CPAP at an impressive pressure.  His is
humidified with the water heated, it is adjustable so he can turn the heat
down when it is hot outside.  I think he can adjust the amount of water used
as well.  He had a hell of a night last Thursday when the power was out.


#2 of 48 by jaklumen on Fri Aug 22 05:51:59 2003:

Thank you for the information.  Some of this is a little scary for me, 
so every piece of experience helps.  I'm wondering if perhaps I should 
just humidify my bedroom waiting for the study right now-- it will be 
eight weeks until I get in unless there's a cancellation.
 


#3 of 48 by glenda on Fri Aug 22 06:32:16 2003:

If you get a machine, and your reaction is anything like STeve's you will see
marked improvement the first night.  He picked the machine up on a Friday.
I got up as usual on Saturday and did computer stuff waiting until a
reasonable time to start coffee and wake him.  Before I had even fully settled
at my desk I heard him get up.  About 8 hours after he went to bed.  And he
was wide awake and rested for the first time in about 15 years.  He usually
slept 14 hours and still wasn't rested.  It continued for many months.  When
we noticed that he was sleeping longer and wasn't as rested we mentioned it
to the doctor who sent him back to neurology who sent him back to the sleep
clinic.  They raised the pressure on the machine a bit and he went back to
less sleep, more rested.  We will watch for needing more sleep again and talk
to the doctor sooner rather than later.

It is amazing the change it has made in his quality of life, our quality of
life.  He now has energy to do things that he hasn't had in a very long time.
He can almost keep up with me again.  (I think competing with college kids
has kept me going.)


#4 of 48 by tod on Fri Aug 22 13:20:50 2003:

This response has been erased.



#5 of 48 by flem on Fri Aug 22 15:11:03 2003:

Just out of curiosity, what it STeve's pressure set at?

I strongly recommend getting a heated humidifier attachment
for anyone using a cpap machine, especially at high pressure.  
Having your sinuses dried out sucks, and if you already have 
sinus issues (allergies), it's even worse.  OTOH, if you keep your
equipment properly cleaned and use good distilled water, 
you may find your allergy problems somewhat lessened, since the 
air through a CPAP is filtered.  

For sleeping better now, a humidifier may help (again, 
filtered air), as will a thorough cleaning of your home.
Allergies make things in your breathing passages swell, 
which doesn't help anything.  :)  Also, I don't know if 
this will help you at all, but if you're desperate, I find 
that without my machine, I sleep better sitting up most of 
the way, like in a recliner or a couch.  ymmv.  

I also had a septoplasty, and I may yet have my uvula and tonsils reduced,
though probably not removed altogether. 



#6 of 48 by tod on Fri Aug 22 16:00:19 2003:

This response has been erased.



#7 of 48 by glenda on Fri Aug 22 17:17:17 2003:

STeve started out at 13, is now at 16.  He did complain Friday morning that
he was congested for the first time (other than a head cold) since he got the
machine.  He figured that the humidified air at pressure was keeping his
sinuses cleared out.  One of the benefits he likes is that when he needs to
sleep during daylight hours, he can put something over his whole head to block
the light and not feel like he is sufficating.


#8 of 48 by cmcgee on Fri Aug 22 19:32:58 2003:

A friend (6'2" 220 lbs) was totally able to control the (very bad) sleep apnea
and snoring by losing 30 lbs.  He hated the CPAP machine, couldn't keep the
mask in a comfortable position.  The "success" % on surgery were too low for
him to even want to consider it.  


#9 of 48 by jaklumen on Sat Aug 23 01:39:04 2003:

resp:5 I probably need to change the filter in my cold air 
humidifier.  If I could afford an excellent air purifier, I'd do that, 
too.

resp:6 313.6 lbs.  I weigh in *every* day.  I use a Tanita scale that 
measures fat percentage as well-- as I am on a low-carb eating plan 
that cuts out refined foods, I've dropped about 7 net pounds of fat 
(approx. 44% to 37% composition).  Trust me, I'm working on it.


#10 of 48 by happyboy on Sat Aug 23 19:14:00 2003:

how long did it take to lose those pounds with the lo-carb plan?


#11 of 48 by jaklumen on Sun Aug 24 04:52:21 2003:

couple weeks.


#12 of 48 by happyboy on Sun Aug 24 17:35:59 2003:

did you bolster that with any aerobic activity or are you
waiting to lose more weight first?


#13 of 48 by polygon on Sun Aug 24 23:03:31 2003:

My experience is like Todd's: my sleep apnea was cured by surgery.  My
tonsils had always been quite large: just about every doctor who ever
peered into my throat commented on them.  When the tonsils were removed
they turned out to be considerably larger than the surgeon had estimated. 

Because I was such an obvious candidate for surgery, given the size of my
tonsils, I never had to use the CPAP machine even once.

Losing weight has been much easier since the surgery than it was earlier.


#14 of 48 by jaklumen on Mon Aug 25 03:25:15 2003:

resp:12 I walked some, mostly 3/4 mi or so 3 to 4 times a week.  The 
hot weather made that really difficult for a little while.  Now that 
the temperatures have really come down, I'd like to step it up some 
more.  It is really, really hard though, because I have an 
overwhelming urge to come home and sleep for 3 hours after work at 
about 1pm or so.  It is really, really frustrating and I am so 
desperate for relief.  But the waiting time for the study is 8 weeks.


#15 of 48 by beeswing on Mon Aug 25 03:43:57 2003:

re: 13... Yeah, losing weight was easier 'cause your throat was raw
after the surgery. :)

I had my tonsils out at 27. Mine were making a safe haven for bacteria
and infection, so they'd been poisoning me for who knows how long.


#16 of 48 by jaklumen on Mon Aug 25 05:03:38 2003:

*shrug* I guess eating less helps... but I see partially too, that 
what you eat really helps, too.  Hopefully, I will add in more 
vegetables... lots of meat has killed the food budget. 


#17 of 48 by happyboy on Mon Aug 25 07:55:39 2003:

tofu is cheap...lowfat cottage cheese.  do you feel more
energized after your walks, even considering the heat?


#18 of 48 by tod on Mon Aug 25 17:34:26 2003:

This response has been erased.



#19 of 48 by sabre on Tue Aug 26 02:51:27 2003:

Aren't you the same joker that called the abortion debate a "dead horse"
Yet here you are with some stupid ass thread about your sleep disorder.
If you would get that fat ass off the couch and do some real work it 
would be easy to get some sleep.

   Every person I know that has this disorder( I know several) are a 
bunch of fat ass pigs. They are disgusting in thier eating habits.
Maybe you can all get together and sue Burger King. McDonalds already 
has a group going after them. Anyone over 250lbs should be forced to 
diet by law.


#20 of 48 by jaklumen on Tue Aug 26 04:14:19 2003:

resp:17 I would imagine so.  I haven't learned to cook with tofu yet.  
Yep, cottage cheese.  No, not really too energized.

resp:18 Tuna is good, makes a good salad.

resp:19 You know what... shut your cakehole.  You're talking out of 
your ass and you don't know what you're talking about.  Some of the 
medications I had to take jacked my metabolism, and you're the only 
sorry fucker who's whining a sorry story about how I ain't doing good 
enough.  Well, I'm doing something.  Yeah, so I'm not as active as I 
used to be.  Lots of people aren't.  Go yowl elsewhere.  Oh yeah, 
that's right, I have a filter that I can just actively disregard you 
if I so choose.


#21 of 48 by gull on Tue Aug 26 13:04:58 2003:

Re #20: You're only going to encourage him by responding.


#22 of 48 by tod on Tue Aug 26 18:28:39 2003:

This response has been erased.



#23 of 48 by flem on Tue Aug 26 18:59:26 2003:

It's true that weight loss can alleviate sleep apnea symptoms, often to the
point that no treatment is needed.  It's also true that people with sleep
apnea find it much more difficult to lose weight than most people, because
we tend to lack the energy to keep active.  The good news is that this does
improve with treatment.  You get more energy, lose a little weight, your
symptoms reduce, and you get more energy still.  


#24 of 48 by glenda on Tue Aug 26 20:57:24 2003:

Damon is 6'8" tall.  At 250 lbs he would be a toothpick.  At 275 lbs he has
a little bit of a pot gut which scares the hell out of me.  When he gets the
pot gut, he is about to shoot up another 2-4 inches.


#25 of 48 by polytarp on Tue Aug 26 21:15:27 2003:

I like Chinese dumplings.


#26 of 48 by tod on Tue Aug 26 23:17:42 2003:

This response has been erased.



#27 of 48 by polytarp on Wed Aug 27 02:07:25 2003:

I h8 fags.


#28 of 48 by goose on Wed Aug 27 02:58:23 2003:

They hate you.


#29 of 48 by russ on Wed Aug 27 03:05:33 2003:

I'm not 250 pounds, but I volunteer to help sit on sabre.  I'll buy
bean burritos for everyone beforehand, too.


#30 of 48 by jaklumen on Wed Aug 27 04:42:49 2003:

resp:23 That's what's been so frustrating-- I've been so tired to keep 
up a regimen-- so at least I do the walking.  Julie suggested that I 
stay active and not sit for very long, so as well as walking at work 
(I usually walk about 3-5 blocks to the city library to pick up the 
batteries for recycling) I get up from my desk about every 15-30 
minutes for some sort of break to fax resumes, take print orders, or 
whatever.  I hope it will work.

Also, I came straight home from work, after I went to the agency to 
send off an application.  Could afford to do the lunch time thing 
again: too many hidden sugars.  So lunch was spinach greens, tuna, 
green olives, and lemon tarragon dressing.  I did go out to dinner 
with my wife and daughter, but there was no dessert and I monitored 
carefully what I was eating: diet pop, salad, the soup had a little 
barley in it... not too many carbs.  The eating plan I follow allows 
carbs for dinner but limits the meal to an hour, but I decided to 
forgo any obvious sugar.

I plan to keep measuring, keep weighing (measure fat more than pound), 
and walk.  The night time ritual will be nasal strips and a 
humidifier.  Hopefully, it will help some until the study.


#31 of 48 by drew on Wed Aug 27 19:18:56 2003:

Re #27:
    Good for you! They cause cancer, y'know.


#32 of 48 by polytarp on Wed Aug 27 22:49:32 2003:

And AIDS.


#33 of 48 by jaklumen on Fri Aug 29 07:43:08 2003:

My scale readings made me very happy today: I'm down to about 307 lbs, 
if I remember right, and about 37% fat.  Hopefully this will continue.


#34 of 48 by happyboy on Fri Aug 29 18:16:12 2003:

how many pounds per week?


#35 of 48 by tod on Fri Aug 29 18:25:08 2003:

This response has been erased.



#36 of 48 by happyboy on Fri Aug 29 18:31:59 2003:

/runs for cover


#37 of 48 by jaklumen on Sat Aug 30 06:50:56 2003:

the average is only 2 lbs., but overall fat pounds has been about 8 so 
far.

resp:35 Bed, Bath, & Beyond.  It's a Tanita digital scale-- not sure 
what the model number is.


#38 of 48 by polygon on Sat Aug 30 15:45:04 2003:

Re 15.  No, losing weight became easier because without the apnea, I
am more rested by sleep and able to be more active during the day.

I was accustomed to feeling like my head was stuffed with cotton.
I could lie down and go to sleep anywhere, anytime.


#39 of 48 by jaklumen on Sat Aug 30 20:33:37 2003:

An interesting way to put it...


#40 of 48 by edina on Tue Sep 9 19:06:34 2003:

Dude - lose the soda.  All of it.  I've been on pure water for 3 weeks now,
and I've noticed a few things besides all of the weight loss (as that's not
the main contributor) - my skin is getting better and my teeth look better.
Water is the greatest gift you can give yourself.


#41 of 48 by jaklumen on Tue Sep 9 23:21:14 2003:

Even diet?  I've never been able to tell if carbonation is the culprit.

I try to drink a big class of water in the morning-- probably what I 
need to do is take a mug of water to work.

I got my sleep study scheduled, so I go to the lab to sleep on the 
16th of October.  I can hardly wait.


#42 of 48 by gull on Thu Sep 11 02:53:15 2003:

The culprit is probably the caffeine, which is a diuretic.  People who drink
mostly caffeinated beverages tend to be dehydrated, and proper hydration has
all kinds of unexpected benefits.


#43 of 48 by edina on Thu Sep 11 16:21:14 2003:

I'm supposed to be getting 64 oz. of water a day.  Plus whatever else I want
to drink.  As my stomach is now the size of 2 oz., I have decided to forgo
all other liquids.


#44 of 48 by slynne on Thu Sep 11 16:53:47 2003:

How long does it take for the water to go through your stomach? I 
always wondered that. I mean, you cant sit down and drink 8 ounces of 
water in a 15 minute period can you?

How many calories are you getting a day? I read that the average after 
this type of surgery is like 600. I also read that even though folks 
are only getting a few calories, they dont feel hungry. Have you found 
that to be true?




#45 of 48 by edina on Thu Sep 11 17:01:33 2003:

It takes me about 30 minutes to get through 8 oz. of water - if I'm
concentrating on it.  I'm not sure how many calories I get - I concentrate
more on grams of protein, as I ideally like to hit 50 grams.  With a protein
shake and the amount of beans and meat I get, I don't worry about it too much.
(If you don't get enough protein, it causes fatigue, hair loss, slows down
healing of the incision . . . .)  I am rarely without a bottle of water, plus
I've learned to cheat a bit - when I make a protein shake, I toss in a bunch
of ice cubes for the blender - it makes it more like a milkshake and I get
more water.


#46 of 48 by tod on Fri Sep 12 04:37:53 2003:

This response has been erased.



#47 of 48 by rcurl on Fri Sep 12 04:59:55 2003:

(Sure - 0.001 Calorie per degree Celsius above the liquid reference state.)


#48 of 48 by tod on Fri Sep 12 17:27:08 2003:

This response has been erased.



There are no more items selected.

You have several choices: