Grex Agora46 Conference

Item 150: How dare the NAACP tell me who I can or cannot endorse

Entered by bru on Sat Aug 9 02:08:25 2003:

Los Angeles civil rights attorney and radio talk show host Leo Terrell
(search), who has made headlines in recent years for defending friend O.J.
Simpson, and speaking out against the Bush administration, accused the
National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (search) of "an
old-fashioned backdoor power-play," and vowed to use his weekly radio show
to incriminate the 94-year-old civil rights organization. 

"How dare the NAACP tell me who I can or cannot endorse on an individual
basis. That is the part that makes this so outrageous," Terrell told
Foxnews.com. "I am going to tell the whole world what the NAACP did to me."

Terrell said he has been a vocal supporter of California judge Carolyn Kuhl
(search), nominated by President Bush to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals
(search). The Senate vote on her confirmation was postponed until September
by Democratic opponents who cite legal briefs she wrote in the 1980s under
the Reagan administration to suggest her record is too far to the right on
privacy, civil rights and abortion.


57 responses total.

#1 of 57 by janc on Sat Aug 9 04:05:17 2003:

Not only can the NAACP tell him who he can endorse, but *I* can tell him who
he can endorse, and I say he can only endorse either Posh Spice or Sporty
Spice.  Definately not Scary Spice or Ginger Spice.


#2 of 57 by jaklumen on Sat Aug 9 08:12:18 2003:

Oh man, not Girl Power!


#3 of 57 by scott on Sat Aug 9 12:21:53 2003:

Nice try, Jan, but you've only mentioned FOUR of the FIVE Spice Girls.  You'll
have to provide 5 different sources, all of which I'll freely denigrate as
"hopelessly biased" before posting yet another straw-man argument about the
Backstreet Boys.


#4 of 57 by cross on Sat Aug 9 15:07:19 2003:

This response has been erased.



#5 of 57 by janc on Sat Aug 9 15:20:39 2003:

Why is Bruce entering items about the Backstreet Boys anyway?

Oh yeah, I forgot.  It's about some guy named Leo Terrell.  We're supposed
to guess what the NAACP did to Leo to get his dander up, and why he thinks
it makes any difference who he endorses for the 9th Circuit Court.  Like Bush
is going to listen to him or something.


#6 of 57 by jaklumen on Sat Aug 9 21:01:58 2003:

*yawn*


#7 of 57 by bru on Sun Aug 10 03:25:48 2003:

just showing the NAACP for the racist organization they are.


#8 of 57 by tod on Sun Aug 10 04:42:55 2003:

This response has been erased.



#9 of 57 by pvn on Sun Aug 10 06:50:01 2003:

No.  Its because the "C" stands for "colored" and that is a racist term
for blacks.


#10 of 57 by bru on Sun Aug 10 12:31:53 2003:

Maybe racist is the wrong word.  But they sure try to force people to believe
as they do.  Maybe they are a religion?


#11 of 57 by jmsaul on Sun Aug 10 13:48:13 2003:

How are they forcing this guy?  #0 doesn't explain it; it just says they're
telling him not to endorse someone.  You tell us shit all the time, and I
don't think you're forcing me to do it.


#12 of 57 by janc on Sun Aug 10 16:04:07 2003:

Anyone is allowed to tell virtually anyone to do virtually anything.
The NAACP not only tells people who to endorse, it actually has the
nerve to tell people who to vote for.  So does the NRA, the ACLU, and
the Sierra Club.  This is not exciting or scandalous.

If the NAACP kidnapped this guy's kids and threatened to give them to
George Bush for adoption unless he endorsed their candidate, then we'd
have a news story.  However, if the NAACP is engaged in any kind of
intimidation beyond "if you don't do it our way, you won't be one of us"
then there is no hint of it in the story above.

I also don't see where you see "racism" in the story above.  Is there
anything particularly racial going on there?  There is a sort of thing
some might called racism, but that could be equally well found in any
newspaper story that even mentions the NAACP.  Look at the name:

   National Association for the Advancement of Color People

They are "for" a particular race.  If you broaden the definition of racism
enough so that doing anything in a non-color-blind manner is racism, then
clearly the NAACP is racist, and we can determine this without reference
to the news story quoted above, which is just as well, since that news story
is so utterly lacking in content.

Of course, if we are dumb enough to accept that definition, then it is
impossible to be opposed to racism.  If your countrymen are holding all black
people as slaves, you can't work to try to free them, because then you'd
be working for the exclusive benefit for one race, and thus you'd be just
as racist as they are.  Darn it, you might as well throw in the hat and
just let the slaves remain slaves, rather than stoop to the same moral
level as the slave owners.

Either that, or that definition of racism is absurd.


#13 of 57 by tod on Sun Aug 10 20:11:49 2003:

This response has been erased.



#14 of 57 by sj2 on Mon Aug 11 19:22:47 2003:

Btw, "coloured" is coloured opposed to??? 


#15 of 57 by dcat on Mon Aug 11 19:32:12 2003:

White.


#16 of 57 by janc on Mon Aug 11 22:24:28 2003:

Historical review for non-Americans:  The terminology for Afro-Americans has
gone through a century of torture.  At different periods, different names have
had different connotations.  I'm not sure I have it all right, but I think
"Negro" used to be the polite word, while "Nigger" was the most popular
impolite term.  Early in the civil rights movement, "Negro" was rejected, and
"Colored" became the prefered replacement.  It's during that period that the
NAACP was started.  "Colored" fell into disfavor and is now, like "Negro"
mostly just obsolete (at one time using these words would have branded you
a racist, but now you'd be more likely thought just plain time-warped, like
an escapee from a "Leave it to Beaver" episode).  "Afro-American" was, I think
the next wave.  "Black" tried to displace it, and mostly did, but I don't
think "Afro-American" ever became offensive - just awkward.  "Nigger" never
went obsolete, and is still offensive, except when it isn't - it's very
context sensitive and the rules for when it is OK to use are complex enough
that amatures should just avoid it completely.  It's meaning has also shifted.
"White nigger" now means some something, though I'm not sure exactly what.
All this time whites have been "whites".

An Indian in the US is usually not any of these things, though in the
backwoods of Texas, Indians are generally mistaken for either Blacks or
Hispanics and have been known to run into some trouble.  Actually, I used
to know a Indian immigrant named "Ronald Fernandez".  I think he could
actually be legally considered Hispanic in Texas, since the key requirement
seems to have been a "Hispanic surname" not any kind of Hispanic heredity.

Basically, race in America is a huge mess.


#17 of 57 by jmsaul on Tue Aug 12 02:41:05 2003:

There's a funny story about some black activist in the 70s ranting about the
use of "Colored" in the name of the NAACP being racist, when Thurgood
Marshall was within earshot.  Marshall told him something to the effect of
"Shut the hell up; that word was good enough when we founded the NAACP
and fought so you could go to college."

(Two notes here:  Marshall's response was probably ruder than that -- he
was known for colorful language -- and Marshall began his public career as
an NAACP attorney in Brown v. Board of Education.  Not someone who
suffered fools gladlt.)


#18 of 57 by remmers on Tue Aug 12 03:47:45 2003:

Re #16:  The NAACP was founded in 1909, long before the modern civil
rights movement.  I think the sequence of "polite" terms for Americans
of African descent, starting with the earliest I can remember (1940s)
was this:

        Negro           -from my earliest memories until around 1965
        Black           -mid-1960s until sometime in the 1970s
        Afro-American
        African-American

I'm not sure where "Colored" fits into all this.  Given the NAACP's
choice of name in 1909, it must certainly have been in common use
in the early 20th century, and not considered derogatory.


#19 of 57 by scg on Tue Aug 12 03:56:56 2003:

(Marshall began his high profile public career long before Brown v. Board of
Education, but well after 1909).


#20 of 57 by cross on Tue Aug 12 05:12:25 2003:

This response has been erased.



#21 of 57 by sj2 on Tue Aug 12 06:05:49 2003:

Heh, white isn't a colour??

A large number of Indian christians can trace their lineage to Portugal
hence the hispanic sounding last names.


#22 of 57 by scg on Tue Aug 12 15:40:15 2003:

Was it that clear Pepsi stuff they were trying to sell a few years ago? ;)


#23 of 57 by tpryan on Tue Aug 12 22:17:29 2003:

        Does the NAACP help any other colors other than the one of
their skin?


#24 of 57 by jmsaul on Tue Aug 12 23:07:50 2003:

Re #19:  I should have said something to the effect that prior to being on
         the Supreme Court, he was best known for Brown.


#25 of 57 by tod on Tue Aug 12 23:55:47 2003:

This response has been erased.



#26 of 57 by janc on Wed Aug 13 01:05:32 2003:

I think that John is right and I was wrong about the sequence of the terms.
Some people did try to claim that "black" was offensive for a while, but
it never really stuck and "black" is still in common usage.

In America, all of these terms have very little to do with skin color.  They
refer specifically to the descendents of Africans who were enslaved in
America.  A recent immigrant from Nigeria is only sort of "black", no matter
how dark his skin.  If he looks "black" then he is often going to be treated
that way, and many blacks have sort of sentimental attachment to the "old
country" and feel they have some commonality with Africans, but an African-
American is no more an African than an Italian-American is an Italian.  Which
is probably why the terminology game finally ended up with "African-American".
Awkward though it is, it is at least a precise word for the set of people
we were describing with all those other words all along.

So, no, the NAACP is not interested in any random people whose skins are not
transparent.  "Colored" has a very specific meaning in that context, and that
isn't it.  I suppose they could change their name, but NAAAA is a silly name,
and the NAACP name has far too much history behind it to be scorned now.

Actually, I have no idea what "people of color" means.


#27 of 57 by happyboy on Wed Aug 13 06:45:14 2003:

whoopie goldberg


#28 of 57 by oval on Wed Aug 13 11:54:06 2003:

my "white" friend from s. africa applied for educational grants for
"african-americans".



#29 of 57 by novomit on Wed Aug 13 12:06:22 2003:

I always use "black". "African American" is a bit of a mouthful. 


#30 of 57 by bru on Wed Aug 13 13:59:41 2003:

I say they should just call themselves american and have done with it.



#31 of 57 by janc on Wed Aug 13 15:22:54 2003:

In the best of all possible worlds, certainly.  But when I encounter a black
man on the street, blackness is still the first thing I notice and I have
many associations with that impression, which, in spite of my best efforts,
color my thinking.  When we are all past that, then we can throw away the
labels.  As long as we all percieve a "thing" there, we will want a name for
it.


#32 of 57 by oval on Wed Aug 13 15:31:45 2003:

i think this is due to the fact that there is still pretty severe segregation
in the US, mostly economic. i don't notice someone's color first anymore after
having lived for 6 years in a dominantly 'black' neighborhood where _I_ was
the minority, and everyone looked at me firstly being white.



#33 of 57 by edina on Wed Aug 13 16:42:01 2003:

Here in DC, I rarely notice color - I go home to Tecumseh and someone who is
black seems to stand out.


#34 of 57 by tod on Wed Aug 13 17:30:34 2003:

This response has been erased.



#35 of 57 by happyboy on Wed Aug 13 19:11:59 2003:

re:30  *they* probably don't really care what *you* think,
stinky


#36 of 57 by polytarp on Thu Aug 14 10:25:21 2003:

There aren't many Negroes in Cobourg, but, you know what, I saw one just
to-day, some Negroe with a white kid:  What the fuck else are the Negroes
going to do, but get white friends?


#37 of 57 by tod on Thu Aug 14 16:46:52 2003:

This response has been erased.



#38 of 57 by jep on Sun Aug 17 03:21:23 2003:

re resp:28: I speculated about someone doing that a half dozen years 
ago; a descendant of white South Africans applying for African 
American scholarships.  How did it work out for your friend?

re resp:33: I've talked to two black co-workers about moving to 
Clinton or Tecumseh.  I warned them both that Clinton is almost 100% 
white, and Tecumseh is nearly so.  In 6 years of having kids go to 
Clinton schools, I knew only one black student in Clinton.


#39 of 57 by i on Sun Aug 17 07:31:52 2003:

Yes, but do Clinton/Tecumseh have the, ah, "racially pure" social
heritage of the Brighton/Howell/Fowlerville corridor?


#40 of 57 by jep on Sun Aug 17 12:52:36 2003:

I vaguely remember hearing something about the KKK around Brighton, 
several years ago.  I've never heard anything like that about Clinton 
or Tecumseh.

But, dangit, I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if I did hear 
something along those lines someday.  People choose to live where 
they're comfortable, and if people move to an all-white town, it's 
often because that's how they want to live.  It's hardly impossible to 
believe that, in an all-white town, there are those who will go to 
extremes to keep their town all-white.

I don't know of any bigotry near where I live, but I haven't looked 
for it.  My brother lives in Pulaski, Tennessee, the town where the 
KKK was formed, and in the area where many of it's originators lived.  
I've never seen any bigotry there, either.  Not myself I haven't.


#41 of 57 by dcat on Sun Aug 17 21:14:31 2003:

The original KKK or the 20th-century KKK?  The original post-Civil-War KKK
was not the same 'organization' that exists now.


#42 of 57 by jep on Sun Aug 17 23:45:07 2003:

The KKK to which I referred was founded a year or two after the end of 
the Civil War in Pulaski, TN.


#43 of 57 by bru on Mon Aug 18 01:32:33 2003:

1924 at 4-6 million nationally, and 115,000 in Alabama  The KKK wa founded
on stoner mountain Georgia in 1915 after the founders watched "Birth of a
Nation.


#44 of 57 by oval on Mon Aug 18 14:35:26 2003:

i can't remeber jep, and i'm not in contact with him anymore to ask
unfortunately. i *think* he did get some grant money, after some hassel about
whether his skin color would prevent this.



#45 of 57 by tod on Mon Aug 18 20:04:43 2003:

This response has been erased.



#46 of 57 by albaugh on Tue Aug 19 21:57:06 2003:

"Stoner" Mountain - Freudian slip?  ;-)


#47 of 57 by tod on Wed Aug 20 03:33:47 2003:

This response has been erased.



#48 of 57 by gull on Wed Aug 20 15:44:24 2003:

I saw a motel near Coram, Montana called 'Stoner's Inn'.


#49 of 57 by tod on Wed Aug 20 19:09:02 2003:

This response has been erased.



#50 of 57 by gull on Thu Aug 21 13:28:38 2003:

I found that hilarious when I was out there.  My friend, who has lived
in the area all his life, had never seen the humor until then.


#51 of 57 by mcnally on Sat Aug 23 07:08:25 2003:

  Hmmm..  I decided, while driving across the country this year, that the
  prize in the hotly-contested convenience-store division of this year's
  "What the hell were they thinking when they named that?" contest should
  go to South Dakota's "Kum-and-Go" stores, edging out last year's winner,
  Minnesota's "Pump-n-Munch" chain..


#52 of 57 by tod on Sat Aug 23 13:16:26 2003:

This response has been erased.



#53 of 57 by gull on Sun Aug 24 02:33:30 2003:

Re #51: I found that pretty funny, too.  They're in Iowa as well.


#54 of 57 by flem on Tue Aug 26 18:42:39 2003:

Haha.  I want to own a Pump-n-Munch someday.  I'd put it right next to Jody
Moroni's Sausage Kingdom.  :)


#55 of 57 by polygon on Wed Sep 10 16:51:31 2003:

Re 41 and others about the KKK: The name Ku Klux Klan has been used in
three separate waves, with no organizational continuity.

The original post-Civil-War KKK started as a social organization of
ex-Confederate soldiers, evolved into a para-military one, and was crushed
by federal troops. 

In 1915, the movie "Birth of a Nation" romanticized the original KKK and
tremendously exaggerated its role in ending Reconstruction.  As a direct
result of the movie, a "new" KKK was organized, and it had millions of
members all over the country, not just in the South, reaching a kind of
peak in 1924.  The sculptor of Mount Rushmore was a member.  Though
certainly racist, it was much less violent than the earlier and later
incarnations.  The founders swindled the membership out of reportedly
millions of dollars.  It died out by the 1930s. 

In the 1950s and 1960s, another new, secretive, and violent KKK was
established, in response to the civil rights movement.  However, there
were and are numerous schisms and competing organizations each of which
claim to be the "real" KKK. 


#56 of 57 by remmers on Wed Sep 10 20:03:46 2003:

According to my father, who lived and worked in Indiana during the
1920s, the second KKK incarnation controlled Indiana politics for
a number of years.


#57 of 57 by gull on Thu Sep 11 02:45:40 2003:

The book _Them: Adventures With Extremists_ talks a bit about the current
political disagreements between different KKK groups.


There are no more items selected.

You have several choices: