41 new of 87 responses total.
If there's going to be a new Grexer recruiting drive, we should fix Backtalk and Fronttalk. The accumulated bulletin board posts are one of Grex's unique charm points, and the *talk systems are easier-to-learn environments for users not already accustomed to the shell. However, with the current bugs in both *talks, I wouldn't recommend them to new users. Specifically, the "terminated by signal 11" Backtalk crashes that occur when trying to open conference items when logged-in on the web, and broken bookmarks in Frontend where "new" command lists some items in spite of having been read previously. The *talks could also use a "catchup" command so that users who don't want to power-read through 20+ years-worth of posts on their first visit can clear the unread item flags and track new items since their previous connection.
There have been suggestions for backtalk/frontalk before, but it seems it's such old code that no one wants to really investigate it. As Perl has changed versions and the OS has changed around it, it gets harder to maintain. But, if we could fix it, that would be great. The trouble is, the original authors of the code are no longer around that we can find, so to dig into it would take a lot of time for someone to fix it (someone familiar with Perl coding amongst other things). We used to have more people reading BBS on the web than at the command line (though that was somewhat hard to prove). The nice thing about reading on the web is cellphones and tablets could get involved too. One suggestion for bbs was to allow editing of responses since we occasionally make mistakes in our responses. That turned into a censorship debate and was turned down. If you want to correct a response, you need to delete it and re-enter it. Therefore, as you can see making progress is rather difficult unless everyone agrees (which is rarely the case). Right now, if you can get our web-based command line going you can use the bbs command and that's about as far as we can go right now with web-based conferencing unless you can get the current web bbs working or consider other options. We could install a free web-based forum system on the Grex web site but that would take someone to not only install it, but set it up correctly, and maintain it (including moderation, most likely, as abhorrent as that is to Grex users--but like a conference fair witness). It's not clear if anyone has time for that, but it is one way to modernize Grex a bit. It would likely diverge from the way bbs saves its data, so might split the users (but if there are so few, does it matter?). We have an item in Agoras past regarding how to improve and keep Grex going (Grex Town Hall: How do we Move Forward). It initially had a lot of responses, but not so much any more. In fact, we have not "rolled" the Agora conference system for over a year now. It used to be set up fresh (with popular on-going items linked from the previous agora conference). Again it takes someone to do it and do it correctly. Waiting for a consensus, as Dan implies above, is partly to blame for this situation. The other is the perpetual lack of staff time. I've been snowed under at work, too so it's been difficult to concentrate on much more.
Text Or Die re #39 AOL and the rest of the GUI mousepointing morons can have their World Wide Web. Hytelnet as Iain called it. Why didn't Grex serve HTML and usenet etc? It did. And once you go there then you are on your own. Grex and MNet were build around PicoSpan and then YAPP (read as: UNIX BBS) Jan Wolter and some cats wrote party (read as: Instant Messaging) ASCII Web is crap. Go enjoy yourself if you don't like Grex.
resp:46 Sure, that's fine. Security is something we're at least not terrible at, if not perfect at either. Advertise away! resp:47 Hmm. I'll have to look at backtalk to see what's crashing. The issue with backtalk is that it's basically a programming language interpreter (the language looks a lot like PostScript, believe it or not) and it emits markup specific to some kind of "theme". So instead of using e.g. CSS to style consistent markup, we emit FONT tags and antiquated things like that. Cleaning it up is almost not worth it: I'd rather rewrite it in a managed language so it never segfaults. As Kent mentioned in resp:48, fronttalk is a perl front-end to backtalk. It needs a rewrite, too. I started it with Attospan, which can read and parse every "item" file on both Grex and M-Net, but am also swamped at work and haven't had much time for it.
If I could find an Open Source Bulletin Board system for openbsd (Free) would that be an option to install on Grex? I'll bet it's out there and I have the time to research and find it.
That's exactly what you're typing into now. The sum of Grex's many parts is, in a very real sense, a superset of what a "BBS" is.
I realize it's a Bulletin board system. My concern is the BackTalk (Web) side of Fronttalk. It needs some fixes. I'm gonna research this further. I read some of papa's page today.
The thing that I love about SDF's bboard is specifically that it's not on the web. I believe monochrome BBS had a similar debate in the past and decided to keep their content off the web. The web is so overrun with forums and every other kind of mass communication. I'm not against progress or technology, but I'm not sure having a web-accessible BBS is important to the kind of people that would use grex. Maybe what we should look at are the things that are working well for other public access unix systems. IRC seems to be very popular on several of them. Command-line social tools are what I personally love (com, party, bbs, bboard, writo, bbj, botany, feels). What else are the other public unix systems doing well that draws in users?? I don't think a web forum is it.
I was more or less thinking of ways to attract "NEW" users. To me a new user is someone that recently came on line. Not seasoned veterans. Hey..I'm getting kick out of reasearching backttalk. I would just like to spruce up the web side to attract the newbie. I have no problem keeping things as is. I'm a big advocate for "If it aint broke, don't fix it".[A[A[D[D
Don't get me wrong, I think it's awesome that you're actively trying to find ways to help promote, keep it up!
I'm just trying to get a feel for what type of users to bring in. Would you say users looking for a minimal approach to online services? I've been browsing the gopher sites and I can see where gopher would like to go. I need to change my thinking. Meantime I have a lot of reading to do. Spent all day reading the Backtalk manual. The script language makes sense to me. Probably cause I'm not a programer. I would really like to get Backtalk functional with Lynx but I'm not sure if a login is possible using lynx. I can read the messages anonymously but that's it. Is there anyway to get color into the text?
Ok. I get it. Agora and Coop still work on the Web side of BackTalk.The others are DOA. Just for "Argument Sake" What would it take to "fix it" f the Web side is going to be down a while I'll let people know. If BackTalk is only usable from CLI I can let people know that too. This a reply from the my Web browser. (Note for me). I agree tfurrows. The Web is polluted with message boards but people like the point and click stuff. If you visit these boards, even the free shell accounts and IRC is fading away. I think the internet craze over . They want YouTube and Music Videos. That said what's the attraction at Grex? Why would someone SSH to a prompt and go through the validation process to get a Grex account? For the memories of the good old years? Is Grex just another BBS on the list of thousands?? Is it place for programmers or folks that want to learn programming? Help me out here. I'm "Dazed and Confused" LOL The ad is in my Gopher site if you want take a look at it.
Some things from the past (vinyl records, muscle cars, crystal Pepsi) come back and people enjoy them. But the reality of BBS is that most people are unfamiliar and the numbers of people that would care are dwindling. I don't see young people caring. I tried to teach my teenager Linux but he'd rather play his PS4. Realistically, I don't expect anyone to care when I re-cap a Commodore or get it on the Internet with a NIC+ adapter. Tinkering and reminiscing is a mostly solo effort. It may even be unhealthy. I'm guilty of it but I don't expect most people to care or understand. There are lots of twitter accounts dedicated to such things. I tried to engage but it got exhausting really quick. There are a lot of people who can't move on. It's sad.
AND MY LOCAL TELCOMAKES IT UNFRIENDLY TO USE THIS HAYES MODEM CARTRIDGE ON THIS COCO2 WITH THE OLD B&W TV. ARE THERE ANY MODEM DIALOUT BANKS STILL AROUND FROM MERIT?
Hi folks. This is my first time using fronttalk (I just noticed someone else using it while w'ing the current users, and had to test it out). Looking back on this recent discsusion, I would love to talk more to all of you about this. I think there is a big opportunity for the reinvigoration of Grex around people who see the value of command line social computing as an alternative to commercial social media. I have my own particular concerns about corporate media -- that it is killing democracy -- so I think that alternatives are very important. But I also think that text-based social computing is just fun; and from what I see (sdf.org, tilde.town, blinkenshell.org, many others) a lot of other people do too. Now I only have to figure out how to really use fronttalk so I can find this thread again. If you don't hear from me, someone please email me at cmccabe@sdf.org
Well, I'm up to the task Carl. Whatever that may be. If you're having trouble with fronttalk try using "gboard" at grex. It's very similar to "bboard" on sdf so you might have a smaller learning curve using it. Meanwhile let's keep the conversation going on how to attract new users to grex.
Ok, I figured it out. No need to email me @SDF :) Cross mentioned in response 43 about the hackerspace model like hashbang.sh. I love that idea. tfurrows seems interested too (off-board discussion). How can we most effectively go about fleshing that idea out? cross and kentn, I see both your names on the Grex staff list. Is that list up to date, and is there a way we can engage the others in this discussion?
#60 Ha ha ha ha ------- This is Major Tom to Ground Control I'm logged into an old BBS And I can't get back to fronttalk this way And the modem lights are fading fast today For here Am I am typing on a terminal Far above the world Planet Earth is blue And there's nothing I can do. #CrystalPepsiForever
Having (hopefully) finally figured out how to get Fronttalk to keep track of my conference reading progress (see resp:garage,45,17), I am now face with the task of catching up with 25+ years of accumulated items and responses. I was thinking that I needed a program to catch-up my conference reading status by automatically going through the conf's and marking every item and response as "read". That way I could then use the NEXT and READ NEW commands in FT to easily scan the conf's for new items and responses since my previous visit. However, since yesterday in spare moments I've been using READ NEW to skim part of the backlog in dribs and drabs selected by FT's mysterious algorithm, and have found myself enjoying exploring Backtalk's dusty and ancient corridors. Of course a lot of garbage has built-up over the decades and many items are worth no more time than a glance at the opening post, but there are a lot of well-hidden gems in there. Today I have been exploring conf:Language and conf:International. Feel free to join me in exploring Grex's Backtalk catacombs!
"fixseen" is your friend. :-)
FIXSEEN is useful to know. Thanks.
re #64 #CrystalGravy
Grex has a conf:Laundry conference!
:D You are pure class papa! After you have finished mining Grex for gold; if you get bored - there are 25+ years of conferences to read at mono.org (monochrome BBS) ssh mono@mono.org :)
No rest for the wicked. ;)
papa: you havn't time to be wicked - with another decade of conference posts to read still (or the inclination even if you hadn't: still good to keep busy eh? :) ) .
btw: Happy New Year!! :)
Happy 2021!!
resp:74 It only took us six-and-a-half months to notice!
yes, HIGH FIVE, very nice
What are everyone's latter half of 2021 plans?
resp:77 Immanentize the eschaton!
That seems so pedestrian. What about botanicals or intangibles?
"Lying on stained, wretched sheets with a bleeding virgin We could plan a murder Or start a religion." ― Jim Morrison, An American Prayer Plans for 2021? Definitely plan to do a light sand on my little toyota and reapply clear coat. There's always another project determined by a complaining wife. She wants me to nail these rubber tiles to our porch (which is a deck material). Some other misc misery soon to follow. We ordered new doors months ago. Where are they? Construction is a wait and see thing nowadays.
re #80 Are the rubber tiles to keep from slipping on ice?
#81 mostly for appearance. She bought them over a year ago and they are sitting in the garage. Cringe I think it's a dumb idea. The porch is a deck material which is painted. I think it looks fine. Not in favor of over complicating things. But obviously I need to get it done before there's trouble. ;)
How will you adhere the tiles? Finish nails?
#83 Likely deck screws.
How did the deck screws work out?
#85 Uh... it's still on the list! LMAO
re #86 TOMORROW Tomorrow tomorrowww
You have several choices: