69 new of 79 responses total.
i would use a gopherspace here on grex. i'm a big fan and currently am trying to leave w3/html behind. this includes of course replacing my http home with a script that simply formats my gopherspace & phlog to the most minimal hypertext possible. anyway i think the number of us interested in doing such a thing is growing, especially as the w3c's concern for user rights is shrinking. see http://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/gw for great example of how gopher can be visible to w3 users ... i recommend gopher://sdf.org as a test uri to enter. i think the demand for a non-commercial(izable) protocol is going to increase as even non-savvy end-users notice their freedoms dwindling on the w3 specs to come. some speak of potential secure gopher, other such oddities ... i argue that gopher is perfect as is, and any modifications that need to be done can be done through the way it's retrieved via w3 (the protocol that won, for now anyway, it has won and that is that). in the unix philosophy sense, i speak. gopher is perfect. it does exactly what it is supposed to do, and no more and no less. i'll note that i'm more interested in maintaining and cultivating the user base here at grex than i am in implementing a new protocol instance, but should sensible priorities permit, i would certainly make very serious use of a grex gopherspace.
I have spoken with a few members of Grex.org who are very into gopher. SO ther is a group of us who might be able to contribute in some way to this.
Another reason to recommend gopher, is it looks georgous on mobile devices. Have you seen the overbite client on android (aswell as firefox)? http://gopher.floodgap.com/overbite/sc?android It looks even better - for real - on my smartphone (which only has a small screen compared to most peoples). It is a dream to navigate, and on mobile devices - i think you see the limitiations of the WWW design fashions we have all been aquainted with.
I guess I still don't quite see the appeal. I get that folks don't want to get bogged down in the fluff of modern web "design", but that doesn't mean that one has to author HTML that's all fluffy, or that one has to consume web-based content with a graphical web browser. One could use `links`, or `lynx`, or `w3m` or any number of text-only browsers to avoid most of the garbage. I mean, I don't have an objection to running a gopher server, but I still don't understand the point. Most of the objections could be addressed through other means.
The point is the same as the point in using a shell-based bulletin board system when there is a web-based interface available. As you mentioned in your post on SDF's BBOARD, a gopher server on Grex, especially on with per-user gopherspace available, would be a feature that would attract some new users to Grex, even if it's interesting to only a minority of the user base.
Sure. The part I'm still struggling to understand is that the stated reasons for wanting gopher (text, no ads, etc) aren't specific to the gopher *protocol*, in the same way that a text-based BBS is specific to using a text-based BBS. One can use a text-based browser and get the same effect. Grex's whole reason for existence was a text-based BBS; the desire for gopher seems limited and mostly boils down to, "it's not HTTP." That said, I installed a gopher server package. I guess I'll have to see about configuring it and getting it running.
I understand your point. I don't think people are interested in gopher because it does anything that can't be achieved in HTTP by sticking to a spartan page design aesthetic, but the freedom (from dreaded HTML) and simplicity in publishing content with gopher. You can post your plain text documents as-is, and a menu is little more than a list of file names an titles. With gopher you don't have the option of getting fancy/complicated. There is also a factor of nostalgia/curiosity for a road-not-taken in the history of computing. A few different decisions in the early 1990s and we might all be now using the World-Wide Gopherspace instead of the WWW.
I'm a fan. Check out my gopher at gopher://whitemesa.net for live space weather reports and other stuff.
*shrug* Okay, I guess it doesn't hurt anything. There's a gopher server running on Grex now.
I cant get Veronica working on Archie..I feel like a Jughead
Veronica will only work on Archie if she thinks Betty is going to steal him away from her.
Zoinks
excuse my ignorance, but how do we access the gopher server? I fire up the gopher client and i get 'The gopher Project' server as the home server. How do we go about adding content to the grex server? :)
I've written a quick-and-dirty introduction to Gopher for grexers: ~papa/public_gopher/README.1st That should get you started. Feedback on the document is welcome.
P.S. Although the above file is accessible via Gopher, you can also read it with cat, more, less, or your preferred file viewer.
Argh! I accidentally tossed my guide down the memory hole. The contents now are an earlier version. I will recreate the completed guide over my lnch break.
The file is partially restored and now provides a hint for starting your exploration of Gopherspace. More later.
Your a dancer Papa! :) I'm just off to have a look now. Thanks! :)
Nice gopherhole papa! I see the server now at: gopher://grex.org/ which has no links to other servers as yet, but i am so happy to see an new gopher server on the net \o/. It won't be long untill a few gopher sites link to grex, for sure. Just one thing: it would be nice if we could start say the default gopher client with gopher://grex.org/ and have links on there to the other main servers etc... and maybe we could have a tutorial, for the complete newcomer, on the grex server's main menu: great work!! :)
A simple tutorial is my aim with the document linked above. It was nearly done before my tragic encounter with the bit bucket. Let me know what you think when I get it done. I know cross doesn't want to invest a lot of time in the gopher server, but it would be nice if gopher://grex.org pointed to a menu of at least grexer gopherholes, like my file ~papa/public_gopher/grex-gs/gophermap I don't know how to set the default site for the gopher client, but on an individual basis you can set a bookmark in either gopher or lynx, or define a shell alias like `alias gopher='gopher gopher://grex.org'`. I sent a question to the Gopher Project mailing list to see if there's anything we need to do to attract a visit from the Veronica indexing robot.
I've rebuilt and completed my tutorial for accessing Gopherspace. View the file: ~papa/public_gopher/README.1st You can also access the file with Gopher at the address: gopher://grex.org/0/~papa/README.1st (use your favorite Gopher client) I've also created a tutorial for starting your own Grex gopherhole: gopher://grex.org/0/~papa/README.2nd You can also access these files and other Gopherspace phenomena from my gopherhole's main menu: gopher://grex.org/1/~papa I've tried to make both tutorials as simple as possible for fellow grexers. Please try them out and let me know how I did.
Tutorial for gophermap custom menus: gopher://grex.org/1/~papa/gmap.txt
Let me be clear what I mean: I *personally* don't want to put a lot of time and effort into supporting Gopher, but I'm certainly willing to take content and marshal it over into the gopher area, make changes to the server, etc. If folks use gopher, and most importantly if it becomes a draw that pulls people into Grex then I'm fine with it. If it doesn't, then I'll take it down (it is, after all, yet another unencrypted service running on Grex that could become a security issue). But if no one is using it, then no one will notice. :-) I'd be slightly more enthusiastic about a low-markup set of static blog web sites, to be totally honest. Gopher as a protocol is a lot less interesting. A gopher-style thing via HTTP, with minimalist content (a la Markdown) that's directly interpreted in lieu of HTML is a lot more interesting.
I've created a script to open your own Grex gopherhole: ~papa/share/bin/mygh The script uses the gopher client, or you can set you $GOPHER_CLIENT environment variable if you prefer lynx.
Cool. Drop it into /cyberspace/contrib/bin ?
This response has been erased.
I didn't know about /cyberspace/contrib/bin. mygh is in there now. Are there any guidelines on what's appropriate to put in there? cross, could you add the following two lines at the bottom of /var/gopher/gophermap ? === Start ... ========== Grexer gopherholes ... ~ === ... End ========== That will put a list of links to Grex user ~/public_gopher directories at the end of the Grex Gopher main page.
Done. Take a look. But does that imply that the gopher server will try to stat(2) a subdirectory of *every* user home directory on Grex each time someone fetches that page?
I looked at the source code and that's exactly what it does. However, at the moment it doesn't appear to be an issue in terms of either performance or resource consumption. Let's leave it for now. If it becomes an issue later on down the road, we can revisit.
Looks good. Thanks, cross. I've contacted Cameron Kaiser about adding grex.org to his list of Gopher servers for spidering by the Veronica-2 search engine.
Grex is now on the Floodgap New Gopher Servers list: gopher://gopher.floodgap.com/1/new This will trigger a visit from the Veronica-2 indexing robot within a couple of days. After that, Grex gopherspace content will show up in Veronica searches: gopher://gopher.floodgap.com:70/7/v2/vs
resp:33 > I'd be slightly more enthusiastic about a low-markup set of static > blog web sites, to be totally honest. Gopher as a protocol is a lot > less interesting. A gopher-style thing via HTTP, with minimalist > content (a la Markdown) that's directly interpreted in lieu of HTML > is a lot more interesting. I try to envision what you're imagining and keep seeing something a lot like the original WikiWikiWeb (http://wiki.c2.com/?WikiWikiWeb). The only Gopher-like things the original wiki doesn't do is a subdirectory tree and automatically-generated navigation pages.
resp:41 It looks like we have been visited. Grex Gopherspace content is now searchable with Veronica-2!
Actually, I'm thinking more like markdown documents, where the various formatting metacharacters get translated into bolding or highlighting, and hyperlinks work. That's it. Think Jekyll but without the jekyll part.
I'm changing my font to amber with black background and modem sound effects
A good choice, though I've always been partial to phosphor green.
#18 that's really cool!
I think the question on everyone's mind is "Does the <blink> tag work again?"
One can only hope not.
It's between you and your browser.
thanks @cross for humoring us, we'll impress you yet! also thanks papa, jandal, others for the tutorials. i've only ever really used gopher for easy phlogging, it's really cool to see what's possible. and - what with us having done so many things to the web etc - i'm sure we'll come up with some interesting as-yet-undone or at least -uncommon things that are possible with gopher! so far ~nydel/public_gopher just contains an empty phlog (entitled "let's all flog thing!" in esperanto - as the log will be - about to figure out whether i can use my esperanto keyboard or if i will need to use the still-fine x-system. really excited about this (and about us just doing new stuff on the system in general)
Check out the latest developments in Grex Gopherspace:
~papa/public_gopher/pgphlog/20170611-the_daily_batch.txt
Check it out!
Gophermeisters, update your gopherholes ever day!
my apologies to misfile this, but i cannot seem to figure out how to create an original topic in agora! i use commonlisp (sbcl) a lot and want to do some small scripting things in the language here locally. emacs and sbcl are already installed, would it be much trouble to install slime (superior lisp mode for emacs) here systemwide? again apologies to put this in wrong thread (although some of the things i plan to try with commonlisp here involve gopher!) & i will follow any advice on agorabbs protocol given. thanking you kindly!
nydel, the bbs command to start a new item is 'enter'.
resp:53 in this day and age, there's not much point to installing emacs packages globally. Just use package.el and melpa/elpa/whatever the kids are using these days and install SLIME that way. You'll probably also want paredit while you're at it...
e for short
For those of you who do not follow the Gopher mailing list (joining which is currently problematic), a discussion has started on the list's future, including choosing a new moderator, a new host for the list, or changing the list to a different medium like Usenet group, IRC, ... If you are concerned, it might be worth your while to read up on the discussion in the ML archive, then e-mail one of the participants if you want to make a comment.
Is Usenet still around?
It is.
resp:57 The Gopher Project mailing list information page is here: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gopher-project ... and the list archive is supposed to be here: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.network.gopher.general ... but getting to the archived messages seems to be problematic, too. :( Is anyone not already on the list interested in the referenced discussion on the list's future? I could cut-and-paste and post a log of the discussion so far.
Sure, I'd enjoy a read
resp:61 OK --> gopher://grex.org/1/~papa/gopherml Diverging into three threads, this discussion has generated more ML traffic in three days than the ML has seen on all subjects in a year. I have just dumped the raw e-mail files so you will have to page through headers, quoted text, and sometimes HTML, but the whole story is in there if you're interested. If you want to add to the discussion, I suggest you send e-mail directly to one of the members already participating and ask them to post to the list on your behalf. (Unfortunately, though I am registered on the list with two e-mail addresses, I cannot post to the list from either of them.)
resp:60 The mailing list archive is available from gmain.org after all, but only in the form of a Usenet news group: nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.gopher.general You can access it with your favorite news reader or some web browsers like lynx or elinks.
resp:62 Regarding posting to the Gopher Project mailing list, I have heard it is possible via news.gmane.org using a news reader client. Also, I can post on your behalf if you send me e-mail. I thought I had lost permission to post, but found a way I can still do it.
For those of you interested in my antichronological date codes, I have written scripts for converting dates to antichron codes and vice versa, dt2ach and ach2dt. There are still some needed tweaks and maybe some bugs, but for anyone who wants an early peak, they're available in ~papa/share/bin .
A few users here are active in the gopher space on grex, thanks for keeping it running cross. quick question: in our html folders we're not supposed to upload images, as far as I understand. What about our gopher folders? I put a few images in mine of an electronics project. Is it a common-sense-don't-overdo-it approach, or are images simply not allowed period? Thanks.
It's cross's call, but that's probably a rule made long ago to deal with abuse of a very different Grex and a very different Internet from what we have now.
Try either and see whether it works. :-)
re #66 Depends if your modem is set for 7 or 8 bit? ;)
there is a bit of a security problem with the current version of gophernicus we run. please do this to see: $lynx gopher://grex.org:70/1/server-status forgive me, i'm not in a multiplex, that /1/ may be a /0/ the page displays the ip address and content viewed from all open sessions. is it possible to upgrade or otherwise disable this feature? tildetown and sdf have been able to disable it. would other grexers agree with or disagree with the suggestion that this is a potential security issue that should be patched if possible? thank you kindly grex for serving our gopherspaces. oh the fun we're having!
I think the odds of it being exploited are low due to the obscurity of gopherspace and grex, but publishing IP addresses is not a good idea. I have no problem with this feature being disabled.
I'd love to see it disabled, even if it's never seen by anyone.
The gopher server at grex is behaving oddly. Visiting user's links directly works fine, as does browsing their content, but attempting to visit grex.org fails. Any idea what might be wrong?
Visiting grex.org's gopher server works, if you wait a very long time. At least that's what I've been seeing here. I wonder if it's because the main menu is generated by script that runs very slowly (the last time I tried it took 14 minutes!). But as you pointed out, there's no delay when visiting a user's gopher directly.
14 min! eek, that's a long wait...
One can mail packages out of China but one cannot access the Grex Gopher server behind the great wall. (2) Social Credit Score points deducted. New occupation: Groom of stool
I'm holding out for Veronica
Any thoughts on the gopher server slowness? User pages seem to load quickly, but the home/root does not. Anything in the logs that would indicate why? Time to switch gopher servers?
The main menu is a list of gopherholes at grex - how is that built?? I suspect that a script is searching all the home directories for public_gopher subdirs to build the list dynamically. If that's true then it would certainly take a while - just a theory though.
You have several choices: