I want to be fairwitness of the language conference. rcurl, one of the current fairwitnesses, mentioned that he was going to forget an item that was not in English, and linked it to language only after the promptings of another user. This is item 198 in Agora. If a fairwitness of a language conference is not even interested in other languages he should be replaced. I volunteer to replace rcurl as fairwitness of the language conference.78 responses total.
So what you need to do is go to the language conference and make your case to those who use the conference. If you get a lot of support then we go to step two. I don't really know what step two is because we've never, to my memory, had that happen before. I suspect you'll not be able to find much support.
I put in a suggestion to Rane on that item, because I suspected (correctly, apparently) that he was asleep at the switch. He promptly linked the item. I see no evidence whatsoever in the discussion that he "is not even interested in other languages", & there's quite a bit of evidence lying around to the contrary. Forgetting an item consisting, by intention, of discussion in a language one doesn't know isn't, prima facie, evidence of much beyond consciousness of a lack of unlimited time. I suspect Mary's last sentence is entirely correct, but what do I know?
Well, my primary reason for volunteering to be FW or co-FW of that conference is primarily because there isn't a large userbase of users reading that conference, and I want to change that. and if rcurl want's to stay on, that's fine with me; the more the merrier.
Just out of curiousity, how would you propose to expand the use of that conference? I'm also curious about how you determine the number of people using it.
I also forgot the item in agora. I will read it in the language cf. There is no need to read an item twice. I always forget items in agora that have been linked to another cf. Does that mean that I should be removed as fw to the cf's that I am fw in? What a crock.
re 4 Backtalk has a way to determine the number of participants in a conference. Specifically, to expand a conference, the best way is to advertise about it, enter some new items (restarting the conference is a horrible way to revive it) and spark some new interest in the older items. I also plan on changing both the backtalk (web) and command-line interface; specifically, simple commands that users can type to get information (check out the UNIX conference on m-net, probably the best example of this). But those are the main ideas. re 5 I also use the forget command to read items only once. But the context in which rcurl used the statement indicated that he wanted to forget the only incident of the item (remember, it wasn't linked when he was about to forget it) and therefore he wasn't interested in it.
As Mary indicated in resp:1, the first step would be to discuss your proposals in the language conference.
Hmm. Neither advertising a conference nor entering new items (or responses) requires being FW. Email to Rane, detailing suggestions for interface changes, might get those and (if not mixed with your usual drivel) would almost certainly be considered.
re 7 There is not an active userbase in the language conference currently. I intend to create one. re 8 Both your sentences lack any truth.
So you're saying that you are FW of coop, now? You entered this item.
How would you create "an active userbase" in language? My practice is to link items to language when some interest is shown. either by me personally or by others. Anyone can make the suggestion if I don't. But I agree this discussion should be in language, so I will link it there.
re 10 I said nothing of the sort. Going back to response #8, doing proper advertising of a conference requires being a FW. Also, the interface needs work. Please read response #6. E-mailing suggestions might be done, as you mentioned in that response, but I'm interested in things that actually happen. re 11 Please read response #6. Thanks for linking this item; I'll freeze the one I created.
I don't agree the interface needs work. What are your suggestions? What do you consider "proper advertising"? I've promoted specific conferences more than once, and I've never been an FW on this system.
I would welcome active (and appropriate) participation from naftee in the language conference, as well as specific suggestions for its management.
I, for one, fully support naftee's bid to coup d'etat rcurl (and his ass).
re 13 I've given some of my suggestions on interface improvement in response #6 . To create those, I would have to be FW of the conference. I would also be able to link items that users such as rcurl would forget. Additionally, there are some cool things with backtalk which I'd like to explore more. Perhaps updating the web interface with hyperlinks. These are very rough ideas. re 14 I would like to manage or co-manage it, it would be easier. See above.
Yuo can help fw the international cf, naftee. I'd be happy to have you on board.
Response #6 speaks in generalities. Which shortcuts do you think would improved the language conference?
I'd be glad to implement any improvements in language if there is some concensus they are desirable. Some of what naftee proposes in #6 concerns the Backtalk interface: these would require staff approval and implementation. naftee can implement advertisement of the conference any time he wants. None of the things naftee suggested there requires FW status. In regard to my saying that I was about to forget that Polish item (I had not done it yet) before davel suggested the link, I was making a comment *after* his suggestion, as a participant in agora. I couldn't read the item and although it was in Polish, it wasn't about Polish. Even if I did forget the item for myself (that wasn't a foregone action), that would not have interfered with anyone else's participation in the item, nor would it have interfered with anyone sending me e-mail to suggest the link (this is a common procedure anyway). What hints were given that some participants would prefer to exercise Polish in the language cf rather than in agora? willcome, I think, in #15, brings up what may be the real issue. I referred to both naftee and willcome in the current agora as "jerks" for some very jerk-like responses they entered. This issue smells a lot like a counterattack.
I'd have to agree that Rane hasn't demonstrated any inadequacy as a fairwitness in any of this.
I already said the same. Rane's doing a fine job. Re one point in #19: I don't use backtalk myself, Rane, but I suspect that there are some FW-customizable things regarding that interface. As you said, naftee never said anything specific (beyond like-some-conference-on-Mnet), so it's hard to know what he wants on this; but it probably is something that wouldn't require staff intervention, at a wild guess.
Re. 19: There are certain Backtalk features only an FW is allowed to use to modify a conference. (You should know that.) What SHOULDN"T be allowed, however, is your nonsense accusation that I am using this issue to "counterattack" you. I don't really care who FWs the conference, and I don't really care that you called me a jerk. I think you should apologise, whore.
Do we really want or need conferences on Grex to be "like-some- conference-on-Mnet"? They are 2 separate and different systems. I like it that way and see no reason why they should resemble each other.
Xenophobe.
Apologize for what, willcome? If any Backtalk features need to be changed/fixed, and an FW can do it, I would be glad to. But I don't use Backtalk. My responsibility is language, not Backtalk.
I think you should apologise for accusing me of "[counterattacking]" you.
R. 25: Unless one's FW of a conference, he can't very well be expected to know which specific features are available; unless naftee's an FW, he can't tell you, as an FW, to do.
re 17 I'd love to help out with the international conference. re 18 For instance, a user could type 'hello' at the Ok: prompt, and it would show them what the word hello is in twelve different languages. Stuff like that. re 19 >Some of what naftee proposes in #6 concerns the Backtalk interface: these would require staff approval and implementation. You have no idea what you are talking about. This is why another FW is needed. > I referred to both naftee and willcome in the current agora as "jerks" for some very jerk-like responses they entered. This issue smells a lot like a counterattack. Perhaps you did, but that's not the issue. re 20 You don't participate in the language conference. How are you to judge this? re 21 >but it probably is something that >wouldn't require staff intervention, at a wild guess. Yes, that is the whole point of a fairwitness. re 23 >Do we really want or need conferences on Grex to be "like-some- conference-on-Mnet"? They are 2 separate and different systems. I like it that way and see no reason why they should resemble each other. You've taken that quote entirely out of context. I was making a comment on the interface of the conference, not the content. In other words, you have nothing to fear. re 25 >My responsibility is language, not Backtalk. Once again, this is why another FW is needed. A fairwitness' responsibility is towards the conference.
Traditionally, FWs volunteer and are accepted because they will be fair witnesses. One can always learn the computer stuff. One just asks, and there is a lot of ready help available. It is not essentially a *technical* position.
Read response #0. My reasons for volunteering were originally not technical. Rather, as 'untechnical' as one can get in an electronic BBS.
29: when are you gonna apologise?
Why should the interface(s) of Grex be like those of Mnet. Again, they are different systems and should not look or feel the same. Difference is good. Do you want all your friends' homes to look the same as yours and everyone else's. It would get very boring very fast.
Why, then, do you support changing to OpenBSD? That's more similar than SunOS is to M-Net's interface, which, face it, is already virtually identical to Grex's. I don't see how adding useful features to conferences is going to make them boring.
re 32 You have no idea what you're talking about. Read my above responses. In none of them did I mention I'd make the language conference look like a conference on m-net. Please drop that line of argument.
Adding features to Picospan isn't within a FW's capabilities.
That's actually not quite correct. For the text interface the fw can define aliases of Unix commands for his conference, using (I think) the .cfrc file. He can also cause other Unix commands to be executed for each user who enters the conference (though individual users have the capability of evading these commands). I've heard of people using fw powers to prevent unwanted users from posting, having people logged out upon entering the conference, or making every response containing a code word appear to be personally directed toward the person joining the conference. For the WWW interface, the fw can define links within the conference WWW page, and also define colors and background images for the conference. (The Backtalk and Sports conferences here on Grex, and possibly others, use these capabilities.)
Hmm. Thanks for the correction.
I plead guilty to the "code word" one. The Mary Poppins filter, used originally on M-Net, and once here as an April Fool joke. Seriously, though, this capability of Picospan, as implemented, is a security hole that ought to be plugged. In any case, a user can exempt themselves from any FW changes by putting the line "set nosource" in their .cfonce file. I am skeptical that the changes proposed by naftee would have much benefit.
re 38 Perhaps you are skeptical, but you (or ay other GreX user, for that matter) have not given any reasons, good or otherwise, against me being FW of the language conference.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't. But the decision should be up to the participants in the language conference, not the readers of Coop, and not you. (I'm reading this item in Coop.) To elaborate on the security issue: If a conference directory contains a file named "rc" of Picospan commands, those commands are executed whenever a user joins the conference, unless they have the line "set nosource" in their .cfonce file. That's how an FW can customize prompts and other features of a conference. However, the rc file can contain shell escapes that execute arbitrary Unix commands *as that user*. Consider the implications of that. In view of that, I think it would be reasonable for participants of a conference to consider a user's track record of behavior on the system in deciding whether or not that user is appropriate fair- witness material.
Under the circumstances, I'd say that's all the justification needed for users of that conference to not want asshole, err willcome/ naftee as FW, but I'm willing to let them decide how much rope he can hang himself with.
re 40 Users can always see exactly what a command does in the rc file. Besides, a user doesn't *HAVE* to type a command if they don't want to. Additionally, I don't plan on doing stupid tricks as FW such as you described above. re 41 I think you should look at yourself before calling other people assholes. Read it carefully. It's "other people" not "another person".
They can see if they know to look. Most users don't. But I'm out of this discussion insofar as it pertains to fw'ing Language, since I don't participate in that conference.
So any other stupid tricks you have done were planned far in advance?
I'm not interested in naftee joining me as a FW of the language conference. He has not been an active, much less valuable, participant in the conference. He has also shown that he likes to enter junk responses in other conferences and has the skills to multiply this in conferences in which he has the powers of a FW. There are dozens of inactive conferences, many I think even with FWs that are not current users. I'd suggest turning one of those over to naftee, and he can show us what he can do as a FW.
The langauge conference, thanks to you, rcurl, is one of those sadly inactive conferences. Getting defensive isn't going to change that fact. Welcoming help, however, will.
I'd welcome a co FW if it were a user I could trust not to do infantile or stupid things.
rcurl, you are being replaced. Live with it. You ruined the language conference. I'm here to fiz your mistakes.
fix
As a user of language: No, you aren't, naftee. I see no reason to make you a fairwitness of this conference.
Right, Grex certainly doesn't need new staff members.
Fair witnesses are not staff members.
They're semistaff members. Right. Grex certainly doesn't need to encourage active users.
Some active users need encouragement. Some are just a plague.
re 50 I've given you almost a dozen reasons for why I should be a fairwitness of the language conference. Care to give me any reasons why I should not be one?
Yes: #46 and #48.
He was just being silly, gelinas. Couldn't you tell by his language?
And how is that different from everything else he (or is it you, under a different login-id? I've never yet figured that out) has entered here?
What's wrong with entering silly stuff?
Nothing, as an occasional change of pace. But when it is all (or even almost all) someone enters, the resulting impression is . . . silliness, unrelieved silliness.
Your age is showing, gelinas.
As is yours.
In any case, it's not a strong qualification for FWing.
It's almost funny how gelinas is using willcome's opinions of my actions as the truth.
re resp:64: Yeah, it's strange how people view things when two loginids always agree with one another; when one of them usually comes along and says "Me, too" when the other one says anything at all; and when they cite one another as possessing positive characteristics that no one else seems to have perceived. It's really weird how, when two loginids seem identical, others may come to think they have something in common. Fortunately, willcome, by jumping on such assumptions and disputing them, you can always correct people's impressions and make sure they treat you as two separate people. Keep trying, some of us are pretty slow and have to be told as many as dozens of times before we'll properly understand what you're saying on a subject such as this one.
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willcome's polytarp. As is dah, and plongeur. naftee's asd.
re 65 > when two loginids always agree with one another; Patently false. >when one of them usually comes along and > says "Me, too" when the other one says anything at all; Mmhuh? > when they > cite one another as possessing positive characteristics that no one > else seems to have perceived. Some people percieve them, others don't. >when two loginids seem identical, Seem identical to whom? Since you're responding for gelinas, we may as well say that jep and gelinas are the same person. You seem identical enough. > others may come to think they have something in common. Maybe two people have some things in common, but clearly they are not the same persons. Your post has done more to show the differences between myself and willcome than to show how we are the same. Or perhaps its purpose was to show how old persons' faculties slow down over time.
If naftee really wants what is best for the lang conference, he can do what other people have already said re: give his ideas to the existing FW to try out. If naftee absolutely must *be* a FW before knowing what those ideas are, I agree with what rcurl said in #45 - go learn as the FW of a conference no one cares if it gets "broken".
Heh. You're not going to offend me by confusing me with gelinas, but Joe might take it badly.
I don't participate on M-Net. It is entirely possible that the polytarp and naftee personas are differentiated on that system. They have not been well-differentiated here. #69 is the first response I've noticed that offers some evidence of different people. Saying "I'm not polytarp" is NOT evidence, by the way; it is merely an claim.
re 71 No, I'm actually quite capable of differentiating between two seperate users, unlike some other users around here. Funny, it seems like some of those "other users" are staff members. You'd think a staff member would know how to tell if indeed there is only one user using two loginids. re 70 What happens when you attempt to give your ideas to a FW of a conference who a) has let it become inactive and therefore doesn't give a shit about it and b) is prejudiced towards the giver of ideas? No, that FW must certainly be replaced.
No, you are certainly wrong.
Believe it, it's true.
"I know you are, but what am I?"
TROGG IS DAVID BLAINE
hey guys; i still wouldn't mind doing this.
You have several choices: