Grex Language Conference

Item 123: The Dateh of Slelnlipg

Entered by janc on Tue Sep 16 12:45:17 2003:

37 new of 42 responses total.


#6 of 42 by tod on Tue Sep 16 17:01:35 2003:

This response has been erased.



#7 of 42 by newjp2 on Tue Sep 16 17:11:38 2003:

This response has been erased.



#8 of 42 by newjp2 on Tue Sep 16 17:13:12 2003:

I have a lex program that filters for this.  It was in 7, but cannot just ide
it (like censor in YAPP?).


#9 of 42 by rcurl on Tue Sep 16 17:22:42 2003:

I shared this with my son, who observed you can also drop all the vowels,
even after the first operation:

ccdrng t rschrch t n lngsh nrvts, t dn't mttr n wht rdr th lttrs in wrd r,
th ln prmtnt thng s tht frst nd lst lttr s t th rght pcl. Th rst cn b ttl
mss nd y cn stll rd it wtht prblm. Ths s bcs w d nt rd rv lttr b tslf bt
th wrd s wlh. 




#10 of 42 by mynxcat on Tue Sep 16 17:29:57 2003:

The dropped vowels don't work as well as the approach in #0. I've noticed that
you can drop vowels in frequently used words, or words that have few vowels
and the meaning won't be lost. In less frequently used words that have too
many vowels, this approach is harder to comprehend


#11 of 42 by rcurl on Tue Sep 16 17:33:11 2003:

N dbt bt t.


#12 of 42 by albaugh on Tue Sep 16 19:48:10 2003:

My totally unscientific opinion is that it's the *shape* of a word that gets
recognized, perhaps with recognizing the first letter.  I don't believe the
last letter is that important.  After a while the combinations of letters in
a certain shape become a pattern to be recognized, not a molecular formula
to be decomposed.


#13 of 42 by gull on Tue Sep 16 20:32:26 2003:

Re #4: Nope, spelling actually varied a lot until the first English
dictionaries were published.


#14 of 42 by dah on Tue Sep 16 22:15:49 2003:

Yet another testimony to the stubborness of language.


#15 of 42 by rcurl on Tue Sep 16 23:00:52 2003:

(Drift, but concerning Slelnlipg: my 4 year old granddaughter, who likes
to be read to but has shown no apparent interest in the words in the books
or their spelling, and her parents have had some concern about her not yet
reading, asked from her car seat in the back of the car, while being
driven to school, "why are there two o's in zoo?".)



#16 of 42 by twenex on Tue Sep 16 23:22:13 2003:

Tmbn hy q decr q ls rsltds d l nvstgcn n s plcn ncsrmnt . n lng cm spnl.
Mlecazr tood lsa ltreas ed als plbraas epsalnosa prbloablmeeent csaua prblmeas
snigfianctes pro al cpreonsnio dle ttxeo.

(Hint, the above text is written in Spanish. Perhaps munkey or another native
spanish speaker would like to tell us if this works in Castilian?)


#17 of 42 by dah on Tue Sep 16 23:32:15 2003:

Really?  Spanish!  It's perfectly parsable in English too!


#18 of 42 by twenex on Tue Sep 16 23:55:14 2003:

The ability to spout words like "parsable" does not one a linguist make.

Fortunately.


#19 of 42 by dah on Wed Sep 17 00:18:38 2003:

I bet you don't know what it says in English.

Fortunately.  (Or you'd be embarassed you wrote it.)


#20 of 42 by twenex on Wed Sep 17 00:23:10 2003:

Bzzzt! Wrong, but thankyou for playing.


#21 of 42 by carson on Wed Sep 17 02:09:33 2003:

(wow.  the first words that occurred to me while trying to read the first
paragraph of resp:16 were Spanish words, but I'd managed to convince myself
that it was supposed to be in English, based on the rest of the item. 
bravo!)

(data point:  I haven't had any problem reading any of the entries with
transposed letters, but I found that losing vowels slowed my reading
considerably.)


#22 of 42 by janc on Wed Sep 17 02:21:09 2003:

Re 8: The cmoanmd to hdie a rocpsnee in Psapcion is "ergapxtue."  Or if you
use Fanltrotk, you can jsut type "hdie."

I'm tiryng to keep wrod sehaps arppemixloaty ccerort in tihs rocpsnee.


#23 of 42 by mynxcat on Wed Sep 17 02:23:21 2003:

What's that command in Picospan again? Somehow, I find it more difficult
reading this response than #0


#24 of 42 by russ on Wed Sep 17 02:47:55 2003:

Word scrambler from Greg Cronau:

#include <stdio.h>
main(){int i,j,l;char c,*b,*d,*e,f[2<<9],g[2<<9];srandom(time(0));while(b
=fgets(f,2<<9,stdin)){do{for(d=g,e=b;isalpha(*d++=*b++););if((l=((d-g)-1))>
3){for(c=g[1],i=2;(i<(l-1))&&(g[i]==c);i++);if(i<(l-1)){while(strncmp(e,g,l
)==0)for(i=1;i<(l-1);c=g[i],g[i]=g[j=(random()%(l-2))+1],g[j]=c,i++);strncpy
(e,g,l);}}}while(*(b+=*--b?1:0));fputs(f,stdout);}}



#25 of 42 by remmers on Wed Sep 17 02:55:20 2003:

D-


#26 of 42 by tod on Wed Sep 17 03:03:16 2003:

This response has been erased.



#27 of 42 by sholmes on Wed Sep 17 04:02:48 2003:

skipping the vowels is okay ..but you beter keep the first vowel in words
which begin with vowels ..like arnd , annyms , antnyms 
.( beter = better ) 


#28 of 42 by other on Wed Sep 17 04:40:57 2003:

I'm surprised to note at this point that no one has mentioned that the 
primary element of readability in longer words is the syllable.  
Multisyllabic words with the first letter in correct position and the 
rest scrambled are far easier to parse if the letters which compse each 
syllable are grouped in the correct order of syllables, and scrambled 
within that smaller range.  This is hinted at by the comments on word 
FORM in #2 and #12.


#29 of 42 by twenex on Wed Sep 17 08:42:11 2003:

'Nuff said.


#30 of 42 by remmers on Wed Sep 17 11:21:08 2003:

I am skacitepl of Eirc's atoissern taht sbalylle oderr pevtoresrain
is carnetl to rildaibeaty.


#31 of 42 by other on Wed Sep 17 12:55:34 2003:

Scrambling without regard to syllables, in my experience since first 
reading about this, has significantly increased the time required to 
parse longer words correctly, despite context.


#32 of 42 by mynxcat on Wed Sep 17 13:41:52 2003:

The syllable scrambling aids in larger words - 3 syllables or more. For two
syllable words it doesn't matter.


#33 of 42 by rcurl on Wed Sep 17 16:22:21 2003:

I tried reading #0 out loud and think it is considerably less intelligible
that way. There must be something to the "modular" word recognition
hypothesis. The mental processing of reading seems quite apart from the mental
processing of speech (not surprisingly). 


#34 of 42 by other on Wed Sep 17 20:23:26 2003:

Visual (and even tactile, as in the case of Braille) processing is a much 
lower level, and therefore faster, brain function than speech processing.

This is predicated on the earlier development of the sensory functions.


#35 of 42 by rcurl on Wed Sep 17 22:25:49 2003:

I think it is also that one quickly rescans fixed visual inputs, which one
cannot do with auditory input. 



#36 of 42 by keesan on Wed Sep 17 22:53:04 2003:

Jdeigert (Jim) who is dyslexic tends to just look at the first and last letter
of a word and guess the middle.  Often the guessed word turns into something
edible.  Fresh eggs turned into fish eggs, for instance.


#37 of 42 by dah on Wed Sep 17 22:57:47 2003:

O Mother.


#38 of 42 by tsty on Thu Sep 18 04:50:16 2003:

#0 is pretty darn eadabkle .. out loud, it sukxx .. the disemvoweled
words are harder.


#39 of 42 by oval on Fri Sep 19 15:41:07 2003:

..you're one to tlak.



#40 of 42 by tsty on Sun Sep 21 17:28:17 2003:

rihgt ....


#41 of 42 by oval on Mon Sep 22 15:02:14 2003:

 ;P



#42 of 42 by curtis12 on Thu Nov 13 12:40:01 2003:

Does anyone here speak Japanese?  


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