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Grex Writing Item 169: Poetry
Entered by md on Thu Aug 17 13:58:24 UTC 1995:

A recent NY Times Book Review had an article about poetry 
and criticism of poetry.  The author quoted from several 
essays published in the Times Book Review.  If you've read 
any of these pieces you know what to expect: cerebral-
sounding but essentially meaningless praise; the sort of 
article you at first imagine you'd understand if you knew 
more about poetry, or at least knew and understood the poet 
being reviewed; but you eventually realize that the whole 
thing is an elaborate game played by academics who don't 
know any more about it than you do.  

The author explains that the reason for all this - the dirty 
little secret of modern-day poetry - is that no one wants to 
suggest that there are criteria for establishing what makes 
a poem a poem, much less what makes a poem a good poem.  To 
suggest that there are such criteria, the author says, is 
almost a breach of manners.

So, here are my questions: 

   1. What makes a poem a poem (as opposed to artfully 
      arranged prose)?  

   2. What makes a poem a good poem?

And one other question:

   3. Is there any reason to think that your opinion of a 
      poem is better or worse than mine or anyone else's?

9 responses total.

#1 of 9 by childe on Fri Aug 18 07:08:32 1995:

I suppose it all depends. I think it comes to be, you KNOW it
when you see it and not everyone may agree with you and why
do we really need to classify it?
what makes poetry good? I suppose sales give some indication
I suppose the only other way is ear, and different things are
good for different people at different times in their lives.

I mean most people like flowing poetry--> maybe that is one
way to rate it and how cliche are the images and it it too imagy
so that it becomes one Lucy M. Montgomeryish mess

#2 of 9 by remmers on Fri Aug 18 11:54:09 1995:

  When you say sales give some indication, do you mean that
  high sales or low sales is better?
    Question 1 ("What makes a poem a poem (as opposed to
  artfully arranged prose)") is something I ponder now and
  then. I once took a short prose piece that I'd entered
  online, re-arranged it into lines like a poem, and read it
  during open mike at the a poetry slam. Nobody said "Hey
  you turkey, that was just artfully arranged prose!" Of 
  course, nobody ever says that at a slam.  So was it 
  "really" prose disguised as a poem or a poem disguised as 
  prose? Darned if I know.
    Perhaps it's useful to look at a dictionary definition.
  Here's my American Heritage Dictionary's definition 1 for
  "poem", with re-arrangement and added emphasis by me:

        POEM: A composition designed to convey a vivid and
        imaginative sense of experience, *characterized by*

          - the use of CONDENSED LANGUAGE,
          - chosen for its SOUND and SUGGESTIVE POWER *as
              well as its meaning*,
          - and by use of such literary techniques as
              STRUCTURED METER,
              NATURAL CADENCES,
              RHYME, or
              METAPHOR.

  What I get out of that is that poetry has greater emphasis
  on words and sounds for their own sake than does prose,
  and makes use of one or more particular literary devices.
  That leaves a lot of room for subjective judgement, but I
  don't know that I can come up with a better answer.

#3 of 9 by rcurl on Sat Aug 19 05:02:09 1995:

That answers question 1, in my opinion. My answer to question 2 is,
a good poem is one that appears in anthologies of poetry one hundred
(or so) years after its composition.

#4 of 9 by shade on Mon Aug 21 15:57:07 1995:

once a kindly lady said to me (and believe me man she knew)
a novel can take a little idea and blow it up National Inquirer big
and a poem the whole point of a poem is to take the novel you just wrote
and make it a three line long poem

but i never muchy bought into that idea I always thought well I would
know it when I saw it and if I didn't who really cared what it was anyway
if it was good?

#5 of 9 by rcurl on Tue Aug 22 06:50:38 1995:

That has a Mark Twain flavor, but sounds somewhat more recent.

#6 of 9 by shade on Wed Aug 23 23:51:03 1995:

you mean #4? That is a personal story of mine

#7 of 9 by rcurl on Thu Aug 24 19:57:11 1995:

Yup :)

#8 of 9 by adbarr on Mon Aug 28 01:10:41 1995:

Personalizing the definition quoted by Rane, a poem is a language sequence
that touches something core in you.

A good poem is one you never forget, and might guide you.

We do not experience poetry apart from others, or, if we do, we are
lessend. It speaks to us together? I think.

#9 of 9 by octavius on Sat Sep 16 02:01:56 1995:

  Whether someghing is a poem or not depends on the idea that the author had
  when writing it, and his opinion of this could change dealing.

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