I went to Tobermory, Ontario for a few days this month. Georgian Bay
is beautiful.

My question is this: are free iced tea refills only an American
practice. A small restaurant on Dyer Bay insisted on charging for
each refill of iced tea. Herbal tea I could understand. When questioned,
the waitress (who was probably the co-owner) said "Free refills sound
like a very American thing." After a short discussion, I paid for it,
but I can't remember hardly any place in Canada charging for iced tea
refills before.

Has your experience been that free refills of iced tea are only given
in the U.S.?

53 responses total.

We just got back from three days in Canada (stopping at Stratford)
and we *remarked* upon the fact that most places did not offer free
coffee refills (restaurants in Stratford generally refilled once, other
places not at all). Not iced tea, but I think the principle is the same.
Different custom.

(Considering the quality of the coffee in most Canadian restaurants,
I wouldn't *want* a second cup.)

They don't refill coffee cups in France or Italy either.  And just try to get
iced tea in England.  They kept shaking their heads on a 90 + degree day when I
asked for a cup of tea and a glass of ice cubes.  Then they gave me a glass
with two small ice cubes which melted before the tea touched the bottom of the
glass.  Oh well, if you want things like you have them at home, you probably
should stay at home :-). (That comment is directed to myself as well as
everyone else.)

There are a lot of small customary-type things that are different
in Canada.  I've noticed a lot of figures of speech, etc., and even
that you always return the grocery cart to the store rather than
leaving it in the lot.  I'm not surprised that iced tea refills
might be different -- heck, they even color their margarine
orange to make sure no one mistakes it for butter.

But, most of all, never ever imply that Canadians are just like
Americans if you want to keep their goodwill.  Veeery touchy issue.

Re #4. No, I wouldn't. I agree most wholeheartedly Canadian culture
is distinct from American and I appreciate our differences. That's
why I always enjoy going.

i'm planning a trip across N.America next summer, and probably will stick
generally to the border btwn U.S. and Canada.  Any tips, ideas
suggestions, great festivals or events we should try to attend?
either respond here, for everyone's benefit, or E-mail me.
Thanks, 
debra@cyberspace.org

A few events come to mind. The Canadian National Exposition in Toronto.
Toronto is a very cool place to visit under any conditions.
You might want to catch the "Phantom of the Opera" there if you're
so inclined. The CNE is toward the end of August, I think.

The International Freedom Festival is July 1 in Detroit/Windsor.
Don't miss the fireworks.

Other places along the border that I would try to see if I had never
been there before are ( from East to West ) :

Quebec City, Quebec
Thousand Islands Area (St Lawrence River at the top of NY state)
Niagara Falls
Sault Ste. Marie
Glacier/Waterton National Park 
Seattle and Vancouver.

But there are many other places that are interesting, too.

If you are getting up really north, I wouldn't miss Banf and Vancouver.  Also
Vancouver Island.  If fact, I would consider ging first to Seattle and then
taking a Hovercraft to Vancouver.  

Thanks for the tips, I'm flattered that you both mentioned Seattle, which
in addition to being our Western terminus of the trip, is also my 
home-town.  I highly recommend it to others, as well as the whole
Northwest.  What about music or cultural festivals?  Any great ones
not to be missed?  Also, we'll be travelling with young kids, any things
that they'd especially enjoy?

If I were going that way, I would visit the museum on Yoho National
Park, which includes an exhibit concerning the Burgess Shale outcrop,
which revolutionized our understanding of the "Cambrian explosion", 
when all major groups of modern animals suddenly appeared in the fossil
record (and many more that no longer exist). 

I don't know about festivals other than the International Freedom Festival
which celebrates July 1 (Canada) and July 4 (USA) simultaneously
on July 1 in Detroit MI/Windsor Ont.

However I was remiss in not mentioning the Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore
(of Lake Superior) which can be appreciated both by boat from Munising MI 
(in Michigan's Upper Peninsula) and by a short enough hike that the kids 
could handle it.

Rane, I have a recent map, and cannot locate this park you mentioned.
Can you give more details? There's a nice display at Dinosaur Nat'l Monument
in Utah, but it is about a much later time than the Cambrian explosion.
It's also too far from the Canadian Border to meet Debra's needs.

Yoho is just west of Lake Louise. The town of Field is in its middle. I
mentioned it because someone else mentioned Banff, which is on the route.
I also mentioned it because I recently read _Wonderful Life_, by Stephen
Jay Gould, which, except for his style, is a marvlous book, and fired me
up to visit the Burgess Shale site. I'd take the detour. 

Thanks for your help everyone.  By the way, does anyone know about on-line
atlases anywhere? (either pictorial or just text).  Thanks, debra
(by the way, I live in Israel, if anyone is planning a trip, I'd be happy 
to advise.)

You'd probably do better to check out atlases at your library. However
there is U.S. Atlas on CD-ROM (Software Toolworks). I think it would
be impractical on-line, because of the bandwidth required (well, if
you have a fiber-optic link etc......). If there is anything else you'd
like to know about travel in the USA, I'm sure lots of people here would
be glad to help.

Thanks, Rane. I read Gould regularly, and I am familiar with the importance
of the Burgess Shale. I just didn't know where the heck it was.
If I had looked in Canada instead of the US, I probably would have found
Yoho. I think I was there as a child.

It has been since my childhood that I was in the Canadian Rockies.
It's definitely time to revisit. I've always had a fondness for mountains,
but the Lake Louise/Banff Bow River area is among the prettiest I have
ever seen. I wonder if I'm amplifying my childhood memories.
Somehow, I don't think so.

I plan to visit Israel some year soon. Nothing more definite, yet.
I think next year will be the year I do some international traveling.
I was hoping it would be this year, but the plans have been abandoned now.

getting back to the original topic of this item, many people traveling
in Israel are surprised to find that getting ice at all is not such
an easy thing.  Most restaurants don't give cold drinks with ice in them.
If you ask for Ice, they want to know what for?  If you order an iced-coffee,
however, you don't get chilled coffee with ice in it.  You get a glass of
chilled instant coffee with a scoop of ice cream floating in it.  The other
thing travellers to the middle east find strange is that even on the hottest
days, the real locals are drinking turkish coffe and hot tea (usually in glass
drinking glasses without handles.  Maybe it is the converse of the theory
postulated by Ben and Jerry upon opening an ice cream establishment in 
Vermont:  if you eat ice cream on a cold day it warms you up.  Any comments?

Ice cream on a cold day (or any other kind of day) makes perfectly good sense
to me. Hot tea on a hot day does not sound like it would work. My 2 cents.
I put in with the travelers who think it's strange.

The theory I heard is that cold drinks on hot days suppresses the
peripheral circulation (the blood going to warm the stomach etc),
and warms you up (no matter how good it *feels*). Conversely hot drinks
on hot days increase the peripheral circulation, and hence your cooling.
*My* theory is that total immersion in cold water on a hot day cools
you the best, and vica versa (BUT DON'T TRY THAT IF YOU ARE HYPOTHERMIC).

 My uncle who was mechanic, drank coffee in the summertime, claining
that the warmth of the coffee or any hot beverage activates your swaet
er sweat glands and lets you be cooler. Go figure.

The caffeine in the coffee also increases the peripheral circulation.
I drink hot tea in the summer (as I also do in winter...).

Ahhh, iced tea! I love tea, especially iced.  Growing up, we only had
the 'normal' [for us  that drank tea in my family] tea--Red Rose that my
mom would buy.  And once in  awhile, something a bit more 'fancy' like
Constant Comic [something like that...] and  sometimes, some kind of tea
mixture [mixed together from a powder mix of tea, tang,  and I forget
what all else].  Though we did have iced tea growing up, I really don't 
recall having it very often...  I did start drinking it a fair amount in
my college years,  often keeping a powder mix of tea in my dorm room.

I became an even bigger fan of tea after going down south where iced tea
is a very  common beverage, though usually served sweetened unless
requested in advance to  have it unsweetened.  A few years back, I found
a cool tea shop in a nearby mall, and I  ended up having tea there on
numerous occasions [and I really miss that pllace--not  only the tea,
but also the friendships I had developed over a 'cuppa tea'.   During
this  time, I became a big fan of loose tea [sooo much better than
traditional bagged tea] as  well as flavored teas.  Good tea really
needs to be properly fixed/brewed for best  flavor [and its not all that
hard or time consuming to do].  And these days, I usually  have my iced
tea either with some kind of green tea or a flavored black tea.  [The
only  kinds of tea that I've come across and didn't like are the
'smokey' tasting teas and  another type called puer [I'm not sure if I
got this spelled correctly], its an aged tea  [the longer its been aged,
the more expensive it becomes] that has a very earthy  flavor to it.

[Though this is an 'old' item, I found it in the travel conference and
decided to link it here  to the cooking cf. It's now item 23 in travel
and 252 in cooking.]  

Anyone care for some tea?  :-)

Which just reminded me--someone, I forget where she's from, but a family
member [or  friend] of hers as a personalized liscence plate [which I
considered getting the same one  while in NC where punction is allowed,
and thus, I would've added a question mark]. The  plate was: NE14T 
[thus, mine could;ve been NE14T?   ].

You can get Luzianne tea here.  I like it a lot better for iced tea than
any other black tea.  

Go for those plates!  And then I'll meet you at a local tea shop.  After
Drake's closed, Sweetwater became my tea-room of choice.  But there are
a couple little ones I haven't tried.  

That's right, I forgot all about Luzianne tea; it's popular down
south--you'll find it  anywhere and everywhere. Though I haven't seen it
as much since moving back  [though that doesn't mean its not around, I
just wasn't looking for it since I did forget  that it IS still around
to some extent].

I haven't been to Sweetwater as yet [someone that I do know said she
didn't really like  the place nor the person that waited on her].  The
only tea shop I've been to so far in  MI is one in Milford that I took a
'field-trip' to one day last spring.  It had just opened  and one of the
owners had mentioned its opening on one of the tea-lists that I read and
 occasionaly participate in.

As far as kinds of flavored teas, I do drink more fruit flavored ice tea
in the supper.  There's a couple peach ones that I really like [one's a
ginger peach, the other one's  called peach melba, but I forget all of
what's in it].  I recently came across a new one  from 'The Republic of
Tea' [brand name] called achai tea [or something like that]; I had 
never heard of this fruit before but its a blend of grapes and something
else; I haven't  actually tried it as yet. But when I do, I'll post how
well I like it as well as more  information about it.

I'm always a big fan of chai and usually drink it iced, even in the
winter time.  Also  more in the winter/cooler months, I drink more
spicey teas; I have a few favorites,  mostly ones with cinnamon included
in the brew.  Then, of course, there are a few ' dessert'-like teas that
I have [hot] that I have when I'm stressed or just wanting or  needing
to relax.  A couple of these flavors that I drink more often is one with
a carmel  base, another one called 'creme brulee' [or however it's
spelled].  These ones I usually  add a bit of cream to, though most teas
I don't have cream. 

 I usually add some kind of sweetner to my tea; I learned over time [and
 it was 
suggested at times in the tea shop I used to go to] that a touch of
sweetner can  enhance the flavor of tea.  The propieter of the shop
always had free samples of a  specific tea of the day, always adding a
bit of sweetner.  People were often surprised  that the sugar/sweetner
was added since it usually didn't have an overly sweet taste to  it. 
Most teas I've tasted both with and without, I can tell the difference.

So good to see fellow tea aficionados!

I have many favorites, depending upon my mood. Anything with peach 
and/or cinnamon will rock my world (hot or iced). And you're right, 
Denise, a touch of sweetener really can bring out the flavor.

I admit to my guilty pleasure of southern sweet tea. It's the only iced 
tea I'll drink that sweet, but damn, is it good. 

Denise, you don't like the smoky flavored teas? (I thought that I 
remembered you saying that.) Depending on my mood, there is one that is 
just superb. I love Twinings Lapsang Souchong. 

Right now I'm drinking a combination of Bigelow Perfect Peach (herbal 
tea) and basic Lipton black tea. My drink of choice at work. :)

We really should all meet for tea one day!

Yep, we SHOULD meet for a tea excursion, when's good for everyone? [It
looks like at  least Colleen and Debbi would be interested...].


I, too, became a big fan of the southern 'sweet tea' while living down
there.  I used to  never put sugar in hot or iced tea but now, I rarely
have it any other way [only if/when  sugar isn't available].

Yep, Debbi, that was me that said I didn't like the smokey-flavored
teas; especially  lapsang Souchong!  And there's some kind of tea that
one of my brother's and his wife  always have on hand [cold out of the
'fridge]--I don't know what kind it is but its got a  very smokey flavor
to it.  It very well could be some kind of Japanes tea since my SIL  is
Japanese, though I don't know for sure.  So when I'm at their house, I
no longer  drink it and have water or something else instead.  [When
they comment that they  know that I really like tea, I just let them
know that I can't have caffeine later in the  day since it keeps me
awake half the night--which is true.  I just don't tell them that I 
don't like that kind of tea.]

Hmm, a lipton tea drinker? I guess I've become a sort of a tea 'snob'
[as some people  who will only drink 'better' brands [or only loose tea
and/or tea from those special kind  of tea bags that allow the leaves
more room to float around to get more flavor, are  called]...  I've
learned, to some extent, at least, to be able to taste the difference 
between the various 'qualities' of tea.  But then, when you're out at
certain places--like  at work, some people's homes, or dining
establishments that don't know HOW to serve  a good cup of tea or know
the difference in quality and brands, sometimes we have no  choice... 
:-)   [Nothing personal Debbi and anyone else that drinks Lipton black
tea; we  all have our likes and dislikes!  And what determines 'quality'
can vary from person to  person as well as differing qualities within a
specific brand; some flavors/types of tea  being better or poorer than
others...

Crazy Wisdom on Main Streel has a lovely old-fashioned Tea Shop on the second
floor.  Wonderful teas and snacks.

Ok, tea trip in order!

For easy transportation, could we start by sampling all the tea rooms we
can find in Ypsi and A2?  Looks like we have a few.  I'll dig up
information on one that used to be out Plymouth near US 23.

No offense taken, Denise! I prefer the good teas myself, but when I'm 
at work, it's just easiest to use what's available.

Twinings is my vendor of choice; loose tea is my preference. :)

Wasn't the one on Plymouth Rd. in that little strip mall where Busch's 
is now, and Kroger used to be?

There's a great little tea shop in Tecumseh - the British Pantry.  
They also have a lovely little British grocery store.  That is, if you 
ever want to do a long distance field trip.

I've been to the British Pantry, but it was more than 5 years ago.  Time to
check it out again.

Yeah, samiam, that's the one I'm thinking about.  Not sure it's still there.

Ok, I'm game for checking out the local [and semi-local] tea shops!

Perhaps a new item is in order--to talk about food/dining/other-stuff
related expeditions  and make plans for the finer details of when,
where, who wants to go, etc.  It may be nice  having the separate item
so the regular discussions can continue on without too much  dilution.
And it'd allow more people to be aware and then maybe participate by
using an  item over emailing with a small group of people...

[A new item has been created...]


Where do y'all buy your tea? Like which grocery stores have a good
selection of the ' finer' teas?  

Whole Foods usually has a good selection, though I haven't really looked
through the  AA WF's yet.  The one in Durham, though, had a wide
selection but most were 'bagged'  tea rather than loose tea.  That
'World Market' place out on State St near Briarwood [on  the other side
of Eisenhouer] has an fairly good selection as well.

And, of course, there are *numerous* online sites as well including some
of the more  well-known good-tea brands like Harney's And Sons [I think
its harneys.com or  something like that] and the Republic of Tea.  

If you'd like to learn more [and discuss] about tea, there are multiple
news group  related to this topic.  The two that I fairly regularly read
are yahoo-based groups. The  more 'formal'-seeming one is called
TeaMail; the more casual one I read is  AfternoonTeaAcrossAmerica.

I buy loose green tea at Buy the Pound (in S. Main Market, near Washtenaw
Dairy in Ann Arbor).  I admit that my choice is mostly about small and
convenient - i moved upscale from Lipton's without bothering to learn &
discern green teas.

Hiller's in Arborland has a reasonable selection of teas.

Actually, I'd forgotten until just now, but the Food Coop has a good
selection of loose tea, both caffeine and herbal.  I especially like
their Gunpowder Green, and Lapsang Souchang

I heard about that 'Buy the Pound' place awhile ago. We had talked about
going late last  spring but it never happened [and since her husband
just retired, they're now spending a  lot of time at their cottage up
north and/or other travelling].  

Hmm, I've only been to Hiller's once but I guess I didn't check out
their tea selection [I  had gone in to pick something up for someone who
couldn't go herself because of a pretty  serious injury].  

I've never been to a food coop; I assume one needs to be a member? [And
if so, how  expensive is it?  Perhaps I'll see if there's a food coop
item here someplace, though can't  tonight...]

Nope, no membership fee.  

Anyone can shop, and we have a lot of downtown residents who do their
shopping there.  

It's really a small neighborhood grocery, and a lot of people like the
feel as well as the food.  

Best to go after 5 or on Sunday if you can.  There is plenty of free
parking across the street at the county lot at those times.  

  

Thanks for the tip, Colleen; I may go check it out sometime soon!

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