Can an infinitely powerful being create a square circle?    

81 responses total.

it's been done. There's a mathematical formula that lets you deform a circle
top, bottom, left and right. Eventually you get to where the figure will fit
all the tolerances for a square, but it is still a circle.

But the corners are never completely pointy.  If you look
closely, they're always slightly rounded.

true.
,

What's your definition of the terms "square" and "circle"?  They seem to 
be mutually exclusive.  

Good point.  No wonder it can't be done.

So what does this say about the Christian Deity?

How can God create something that goes against man's definition?  If he
can change the definition, he can create the square circle.

I believe that God can make any thing that he wants to.  If God wants
to make a square circle (which would look kind of funny) he can, because
he is creater of all things.

Or would He just work with our minds so that we would visualize a
circle as being square?

suzi, sorry for being late on a responce back.  I think that you might be right
 when you said or would he just work on our minds.  I say that thats right
because I can rember when I becam a christain. and all the things that were 
going through my mind when the speaker was speaking.  So yes I think you are
right when yousay Gos would be just working on our minds to think that a 
cricle would be a square.

THink of it this way....
Mathematical laws were created by God along with everything else....
If all of those other laws that He created have been broken in the form of
miracles, then Mathematical ones can break too....

Orin, God has nothing to do with mathematics. Math was made bty MAN to explain
certain things about the universe's orginization and workings. If something
falls outside of mathematical possibility, it's only 'cause Math is as falable
as the Humans who dreampt it up.

how can math be a *human*( invention.....take art, a human invention....if a
human thinks that something is beautiful, it is..... in the case of math
though, you can *think* that 2+2=5, but it won't be true

Circle and square, two and five. These are just explainations of things that we
see and don't understand. It would change nothing if two plus two equaled five
.

What all powerful deity would even bother doing such a silly thing?
It'd be pretty pointless, even if just to say "There, see, I can do it!"

I doubt any lesser being would be impressed, and it wouldn't have
profound implications anyways, except to maybe redefine geometry and
physics.  Once you can change the laws of nature, you can
do anything.  So, this infinitely powerful being would prove just
that - he/she/it is an infinitely powerful being.  Hoorah.

but hoagy, the point is NOT whether He would WANT to, the point is whether
he COULD

But wouldn't it be a factor of our own mental structure to have a paradox?
I think that all this anthropomorphism (whew!) about a being that is, by
defenition, way beyond anyone's comprehension, is a bit foolish.

This has nothing to do with the power of an infinitely powerful being, it's a  
question of our perseption. If circles were squares then that would be that and
we'd have one less
 shape to deal with.

the definitions of square and sircle are mutually contradictory--there *cant*
be a square circle--it would be impossible.  It's not a matter of perception
at all, it's a matter of the rules of mathematics.

what about a boxing ring?  that is a square circle (or ring) :)

The solution is already here, and perspective is the answer.

It would actually be very easy to have a square circle.  Since these items
exist without definition, and we attach our definitions.  Now, "circle" is a
concept, not a physical thing, so all you have to do is change your 
definition of what a circle is (or what a square is, it doesn't matter), then
make something that looks just a little different from a circle and define
that as a square circle.  Voila!  I love us humans, we think our ideas 
define the universe, its so ironic.

oh, if you make it a semantic issue and just change what the words mean, it's
easy.  If you take the puzzle to mean, "can an infinitely powerful being
make an object that fufills the human definition for a square and the human
definition for a circle", then it becomes a paradox

Once again human perception that makes the paradox.

The big question is "Does anyone care?" But I do. I am Christian therefore
I believe that God can do anything he wants. But I think that if we saw a
square circle we wouldn't be able to tell. It'd probably look like a square
with the corners filed down or something.

that would be niehter a square nor a circle, but something else entirely, snaf

The truth is that we live in a realm called 'reality'.  In this realm things
happen, and they happen consistently.  So we make definitions, and we study
physics, and chemistry, and biology, etc... because things follow a certain
pattern, and there a cause-effect relationship for things (I don't necessarily
believe this, but everyone else, except David Hume, seems to).  So if God were 
to create a square-circle, and in theory, he should be able to, then we'd 
probably look at it and promptly go completely mad, because it would 
challenge everything we know, and all our experience.
It's the same idea as: if aliens landed on this planet, we'd all go mad,
because they would be 'alien', and therefore, beyond our understanding.
I'm tangenting, I'll be quiet now.

I agree 100% on the alien thing, and on the reality thing

Thank you!  (finally)

I think we just need a better question, maybe something like:

Can God(s) create a paradox the s/he cannot slove?

really the basic idea here is can God(s) do something that they cannot do?
seems to me that isn't the important part, let's assume that they can do
something that they cannot do, now, do they understand what they have done?
and just what *is* Spam made of anyway? while we're at it. :)

Again that assumes that God is omnipotent, but given that assumption...

ok, one step further then..  Since humans created god in the first place it

seems to me it would be up to humans to define what god can or can't do.

my personal belief is that, yes, God is merely a useful theory created by
humanity.  But, given the biblical definition of God, in which He creates
us and not vice versa...

ppl this is not the religon item, it all depends on definition and
perspective, none of us maybe can imagine such things  but depending on
definiton and perspective it probably is possible

in a philosiphy class my brother took one time, a philosipher said
(i don't remember whick one) that everything that a human can emmagin
must exist , but if we can not immagin it it could not exist; there fore if

we can immagin a God then he/she/it must exist.

so the challange now is to imagine the big rock!

we can imagine God, so (s)he exists
we can imagine the lack of god, so (s)he doesn't exist

I can imagine $1,000,000.00.. the problem is I can't seem to find it.

 :-)

Re # whatever :


        The point of a god making a circle, which is square,
yet retains the properties of both isn't valid.  It's not valid
whatsoever.

        Can God make a being who is alive, but dead at the same
time?

        Can God make fire which is really water?

        Can God make up really down?

        Can God do whatever it is we want him to do, just
to test his power and might?  

        what the hell is the point?????  It's no longer a matter
of "Yeah, God can do it!"  It's now a matter of "Why is God
wasting his/her time???  We get the message!"
This isn't my proclamation of belief in a higher power, but my
profession that any higher power who is actually paying attention
to this rather inane debate is laughing at the utter silliness
of it all.

        And, let's attack this "it's a matter of perspective"
rebuttal.

        Everything is a matter of perspective.  One person sees
a bum ; another sees someone down on their luck.  Someone sees
a glass which is half-full....yeah, you know the rest.  It all
is up to the individual interpretations which make things interesting.
Why do you think people can actually kill one another when someone says
"There is a God.", and the other says "No there isn't!"?  The power
of suggestion is just that - power. 

        When we start to distort reality, our reality, the one where
we live, by interjecting self-defined laws of physics and so on,
we create an alternate-reality.  You might be the only one living
in that alternate reality, but to you, it's all real.  A green
house is also red.  A one-dollar bill is also a one-hundred dollar bill.
It is now a matter of perspective.  What matters is no longer what
is accepted as fact ; it's what you believe to be fact.  Your fact,
in your world.  See how warped things can get?  When you lose touch with
reality and start changing physical laws, this reality no longer matters.
Therefore, asking questions in this reality to justify another
is pointless.

        

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