I noticed that there is no discussion of necromancy in this section...is there
a reason for this? I, myself, haven't any experience with this but I would like
to learn about it. So, let the discussion begin, what exactly is necromancy?

58 responses total.

that is a very good question.  i have no clue.

me neither.

Eeeeep!!!! I think that goes along with that book that I despise...
"Necrominicon"...err... something like that....Eeeeep!!!!! Seriously, input,
Brighn? Kami? Phaedrus?

Necromancy is magic that involves the dead. i.e. raising the spirits of
the dead to learn of future or distant current events, binding a dead
person's spirit to serve one or more functions, &c. &c.  ad naseaum.  In
general, it could be said to be most any magic(k)al practice involving
communication with or attempted manipulation &c. of the spirits of the
dead.  The legendaary practice of "raising the dead" would also fall under
this definition.

Thank you, felis uncia. i wanted somone to explain what it was before I asked
questions about it. Now then, why is this regarded as an evil practice?

Literally, necro = dead + mancy = divination.
Its principlal usage, or so I've always thought, is in reference to
seances and Ouija boards, that sort of thing.

I wouldn't consider it "evil", though I have no interest in it
myself.  Leave the dead alone, they have enough problems of
their own.  >8)

BTW, necromancy also applies to the use of dead bodies, or parts
of dead bodies, for magickal purposes.  But that's pretty
disgusting.

Re #6:  Brighn is, of course eytemologically correct (sp?).  However,
"Necromancy" has, since it's linguistic origins, "branched-out"to include
all of the variants described here so far.  As to Necromantic
morals/ethics, I decline to comment, save that taboos &c regarding
disturbance of the dead and their slumber probably had a great deal to do
with conceptions regarding the art. 

This does not sound like something I would want to take part in, at least on
a regular basis. I don't know enough about it to know what all it encompasses,
so I guess I cannot say if I would write it off entirely or not.
Morg

Does channelling fit into this category at all?

I've read the necronomicon it was interesting.

Channeling would fit in that most of the spirits that are channeled are 
usually dead. As for the Necronomicon, I've heard a lot of stories about the
authorship of said book, but as for actual use, I would discourage it. I've
read it, and while there are ways to call up things, there seem to be very few
ways to put them down.

ok sorry to but in but i had to clear up this necronicon thing.. the book dosnt
exist it never did <gryn> ok get this H.P. or old man Lovecraft want to right
bah type wanted to write a big time horror book so he made up stories  that
revolved around a book he made up fo the store caled the you guessed it the
necro about the old ones and there retrung and sick fun shit........ well it
seems they wernt very popular untell a fan who realy REALY liked the stories
set out and wrote the Necronomicon and published it for a fortuain claiming it
to be the REAL one well the more H.P. denyed  that it existed and said it was
fiction the less people belevied him and thought it was real and H.P.'s book
strated selling like hot cakes and the publisher said H.P. baby weve got a
killer on our hands and talked H.P. into publicly "coming out" into the open
and admiting it was an acent text that he based his books off of and so you see
the book of the dead gods is all just one huge publisdy stunt norman Rockwell's
got nothin on Lovecraft sly old bouger that he was...

coming to you from the Vampyre abashed encoclopida history in a nutshell
or the stuid guid thatd flunk you! ;P
Vamp

 oh and lo
...... im gona figure this out.. but as i was saying oh and by the way i found
confrence!! and almost have it figured out <NErrrF>  happy now?

Mostly happy, Chris.  Your streams of consciousness punctuationless texts 
are a bit hard to process.  :)  But we'll keep you anyways.

Congrats Chris, yes we're happy... now that we have you in one conference,
it won't be hard to get you into others! 

HI Chris!!!! <g>  Welcome home.
Brighn, who was it was saying the basis of the Necronomicon is Sumerian
myth/magic?  My sense is that you can get into exactly as much trouble with
it as you want to, especially if you are in the midst of the bloody 
adolescent surge when you are all power and no control, but if you are
looking for serious, sustainable, in depth growth, that ain't where it's
at.  
As to necromancy, you'll get an automatic "ick", as you just saw, but if you
want to use the broad definition, I've met some perfectly pleasant dead
folks hanging out in places I lived or visited.  Sometimes they don't know
they are dead, and when you tell them that, they are glad to go off and do
dead people stuff.  Or else they like where they are and continue to hang
out.  'Long about Samhain, we usually go out for a walk with whatever
beloved dead might be willing to come join us, and it's traditional in 
many cultures to set a beacon and make them welcome then.  On the other
hand, as Robh pointed out, don't bother them if they don't want to be,
they got enough to do.  Now, slimy guts and gobbets I can do without:
it's illegal, unsanitary and not very useful.  Most of the spectacular
stuff, unless you're Jeffrey Dalmer, belongs in a cheesy fantasy novel.
Not a particularly good source of power or information.  Exceptions: using
a personal object to get the attention of a "ghost" to find out why they
went missing or how they were killed in the case of violence: they might
appreciate the closure.
That help?

well brighn im working on legibilty. you will see it improve.. i hope <gryn>
hi kami well umm i said all i had to say on this subject so! see you in other
items!

So then... what's it called when the dead don't leave YOU alone?

a bloody nuisance!

Yep.  I had a dream the other night.

well, are you going to tell us about your dream?

As soon as I'm able to be comfortable with it, yeah....

I never thought about it but many of the African practices fit right into this
catagory. I do rituals regularly to give homage to and get the blessings of 
the dead. As well most African Witchcraft deals with the dead. I never thought 
I'd thik of Necromancy in this way:)
As for it being evil...in what way???

        The only way the practice should be coonsidered evil is if it is
used to disturb/manipulate those dead souls/bodies who wish to be left
in peace! The other way, of course, is if you use the even *broader*
definition of Necromancy, which includes "Death Spells".
        Also, one must remember that the application f the term "evil"
is
from Organised religions, who have special death ceremonies, and/or who
offer the faithful dead protection from disturbance.

re: #24- I think part of this discussion, if tangential, might be our ideas
of "where" dead people are, what is meant by "dead", the boundaries of
reality, etc.  That is, if you separate real and unreal, live and dead,
natural and supernatural quite strictly, then trafficing with the dead or
any other spirits is a serious, chancy and proscribed activity. If other
worlds are all around us, just out of sight, reality is mutable and all
sorts of people without bodies are near by and appreciate being noticed,
then less hazardous and unpleasant means will be chosen for a more "ordinary"
function.  
Vampyre, Phaedrus, twolf, I bet we could get a lively discussion of different
viewpoints going here if we put aside some of the usual reticence.

Another thing about contacting spirits: If you believe in reincarnation, and
the spirit you want to talk to has gone on to its next life, what happens to 
the current incarnation when you pull the spirit back to talk about a past
one?

Sounds like good advice Kami. I'll come back tomorow and get some
ideas going.

cyberpnk, my sense of it is that a "ghost" is a rather limited part of a
person's personality.  Sort of like a small chunk of a hologram or 
something, I don't know, maybe more limited than that even, but sometimes
complex enough it SEEMS to be dynamic or responsive.  But ghosts don't
make substantive changes, live people sometimes do.  For that matter, you
don't have to be dead to leave a ghost somewhere: they can be the residue
of intense experience.  YOU lose nothing unless the rest of your psyche
does not grow beyond that moment, although I suspect that the echo or
memory or whatever that ghost is might weaken at a similar rate to you
growing past its cause, I'm not sure.  It's largely speculative, based
on a bit of experience and a lot of intuition.

Phaedrus, I'll look for it.

On side of me agrees completely Kami,, my intelect. But my experience
has n been otherwise as well. Some "spirits" have felt like memories
and others have been way too ...mmmmmm, interactive, to seem like
an echo. 
In my home I have an alter built to give honor to my ancestors, and
affinity spirits, it's called a bovida. On it I place glasses of watrer, 

pictures of relatives, and other things that are special to them. 
Each week, sorry Egun I missed it this week:(, if possible, I say a
prayer to them and other important powers in my life. And give them
an offering of flowers, a cigar some rum etc...For me this has brought
serenity to my home. I don't have problms like I used to with a "dirty"
house. And it's a tradition that I'm learning that is respectful and 
an important part of my Religion, Santeria.
To me then, their influence in my life is very direct.
Allot of this is still a big mystery to me, I can't give you an indepth
answer as to why this is so. But in my life, this is good and honorable.
The prayer I say is called The Mojuba, it means "In honor of".

Thanks, Phaedrus. 
Q: would YOUR ancestors appreciate "a cigar some rum etc.", or is that
just common tradition?  Do you have to light the cigar for them, too?
<g>- gee, I wouldn't mind drinking the rum for/with them... Oh, which
brings to mind a less flippant question; what DO you do with offerings
afterwards- use them, toss down the drain, offer to the ground, what?
I try to put remains of edible offerings (or any others, really) in or
on the ground: plant crystals or silver or the like or toss down our
well shaft or into a spring, put food stuff where critters can eat it.
Had a problem disposing of a dead tarot deck and house wards, since I
didn't want to toss them or bury them.  Finally offered to a ritual
fire in an appropriate moment. 
I have a bit of trouble with the whole idea of ancestors: my parents were
the children of immigrants, there is a generation skip involved, and I
have little information beyond one generation back.  Moreover, I'm not
all that connected with their cultural or religious traditions just now.
Hell, my Craft lineage is almost as tangled.  I tend to deal best with
land/place spirits, even some rather old ones, so perhaps I can look
at ancestors in that way: those who dwelt where I now live and felt
strongly about it, or who were in similar relationship with the land. I
do need to work with this aspect, even if it's not all that easy.

Ancestors aren't quite the same thing as ghosts: not that many are hanging
around unbidden all the time, necessarily.  Interact differently and with
different motivation.
By "echo", I didn't mean of you or whichever live person is in their space,
as like a ripple in reality, a pattern, an echo of a life/experience that
was lived there before. Sometimes a fairly long and coplex piece of personhood,
but not existing independently of a prior being.

drift = on
Announcing it here, since this item seems to be semi-active: I will be happy to
do tarot readings for anyone here at Grex. Just pull my address from my file,
and send me the question (i'll take up to five questions at a time). I'll  send
you back the layout and what the cards have said (you decide how they fit the
question). I'll also tell you whether what happens will be major or minor, and
the elemental influences you may have to deal with.  Also, I will do spells for
Grexers who want them. All I ask is $5 for  spell materials.

Cyberpnk, thank you for the offer.  There is, I think, a tarot item.
If you want to discuss readings here, where we can trade interpretations,
that might be a good place for it.  Neat way to learn: a person asks for
readings, 3 or 4 people do layouts, we all compare interpretations. Or 
even one layout for everyone to discuss.  
As to 
"doing spells for Grexers", I'm rather into "do it yourself", but anyway,
I'm curious as to where you got your training, in what tradition, what
areas you feel strongest in, etc.  Spellcrafting might make another good
item. 

Kami, I'm a Solitary, self-initiated Alexandrian, but drifted off on my own.
Strongest areas: Tarot and visualization. The tarot and spell offer is open to 
anyone, and if they want me to do a spell, send me a picture of themselves if
possible so I can establish a psychic link (plus, I want to see faces behind
some of the people here on Grex).

Hi Cyberpnk. Please don't interpret this as an insult, budo people
really some to you for spells??
Has anyone ever done spells for people. This is the first time I've 
ever seen the offer.

don't like it.  Has "strings attatched"- damn near literally: if I do any
work for a person, or even put a lot of effort into finding the right
proceedure for them to use (rather than just handing them a book or 
looking up a "recipe"), I end up very aware of an attachment to them and
the work until it's over and I am told the resolution.  I'm very seldom
willing to be so encumbered unless I am already connected with the person
quite strongly.  On the other hand, it's always been more my style to
teach: find out what the issue is, do some counseling work to help the
person figure out the right practical and magical approach, then give
them a bunch of suggestions or some guidance in working out what they
can do to help themselves.  I tend to figure this approach has more 
chance of making lasting change for a person.
But I do understand that some folks just don't have the understanding
or skill or confidence or whatever to solve their own problems. Cyberpnk,
what is your motivation in doing spells for people?  What is the pleasure
you get from it?  The "exercize" or the feeling of being helpful, or the
mystery/admiration it gives you, or the money, or what?  Just curious.

<<SMILE>>
Ditto. What Kami said.

I get bored easy. Besides, I like to help people.

Not a bad thing, I mean liking to help people.

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss