can anyone tell me how existentialism fits in to religion?  I don't know if I'm
pagan, atheist, (probably not christian), or what- it's subject I've been
looking for quidance on for years.  any suggestions?

99 responses total.

Keep looking!!! Brenda it's good that your even questioning it. Keep
searching, if you're persistant you'll find something that'll work for you.

If I really understood the definition of existentialism, I might undertake
an answer to Brenda's question.

some of the tenents are:
   1. You are ultimately responsible for every action you make
   2.  The universe is basically uncaring- you do what you do based on
        your own mind.
   3. Whatever situation you are in is your own doing, and if you want it
        changed, that's your responsibility.
   4.  Morality is NOT based on dogma;  it's based on consideing others and
   doing
        what's best.

That's all I can think of right now, but I know there's more...

re #3.3

        Well I don't always feel that it is your fault that the situation your
        in is your fault i.e. a mud slide wipes out your house, not really 
        your doing. 

no- but what you do and how you feel about it IS... you are only a "victim"
if you choose to be... you can pick up and rebuild, move, or be homeless..
the results are ultimately your own doing

To some extent, I agree, Greg, but then if someone chooses to build/buy
a home where mudslides are known to happen (or on fault lines) they really
oughten't be so surprised when they're hit by mud (or an earthquake.)
"The view was so beautiful" doesn't negate thew choice made.

THat sounds pretty straight forward- not mysterious or hard to grasp at all. I
wonder why it seemed so enigmatic?  Maybe because it ISN'T at all mystical.

Well ya, if they know that mudslides, and fault lines are there then it is 
there fault. I don't have a problem with people who don't know the first time
it happens. I have a problem with people who know about it, and rebuild in the
same spot then it is there fault. Even still no matter where you go you will
find some kind of natural mass destruction in effect. Weather these hit your
house really isn't your fault, there are some things you can do to prevent 
them a little, but if a storm hits your house full on then it will be destroied
 .

I disagree with being able to prevent disasters Greg, except for moving out of
the way Don't try to face off the Mother! You'll lose!

It's not NICE to f**k with mother nature! <g>

You can learn that the easy way, or...

...or, roll around in margarine.

Wearing celophane? (Does that belong here, in lawn care enigma, or sexuality?)

Yes, fuz, it does.      <grin>

The act of basting one's self in dairy products is a subject that
we need to talk about more openly. No more hiding!

no i meant using natures own defences to help your self. To prevent mud slides
plant things, with roots, that hold down the soil in the rain. Such as trees
and plants native to the area. Or to prevent the heat fires in California
plant fire restiant plants all along the outside of your house, the plants 
that grow naturally. That is the best defence. If you are (crazy or stupid)
enough to build you house on a fault line then that is your own damned fault.
Torandos and storms are easy to overcome, plant tall trees, or even more 
practical don't cut down the old trees. The trees keep lighting from striking
er your house and if a tornado needs somewhere flat, the trees will naturally
divert it.  There are other such things that you can do to naturally protect
yourself.

Nice approach.  The gods help those who help themselves.

If the lightining hits the tree and it falls on you house, then isn't that 
your fault for planting the tree ther in the first place?

What if you didn't put the tree there?
It would be your fault for building the house there.

What if the tree is following you?  Or the lightning is? <g>

then you would have something to worry about.

he, he, he <evil cackle>

Hey dad this lighting bolt followed me home can I keep it??? Please? Awww come
on dad let me keep it, I take real good care of it and everything, please?

I feel so safe with him as my Chief.... ugh...

I don't care what your dad says, where do you think you are going to put
that thing, and what will you feed it.   It's your job to clean up after it,
and if it burns the house down, you are responsible!

re #24 You should I an get the elements to follow me, why shouldn't I be able
to protect you?

You should say that as long as having it follow you home was your idea.
If it was the lightning's idea, try a different tack.

hmmmm

re #27

Yeah I guess thats true enough, but it doesn't help to have a really bad
keyboard either.

You're all answering the question posed in the original item REALLY
well- thanks     :)
I don't know if I've ever seen an item that drifted quite this badly (oh well)

could anyone reread the original, and take a stab at answering?
thanks

Sorry, dear, no disrespect intended, you just caught us all in a silly mood.

I think, if one believes that we create gods for ourselves out of our own
needs or the raw stuff of the universe, then an existential approach would
say that we are responsible for the gods we create, in all their caprice, or
that they are a psychological device, a sort of safety valve.  Or else taht
they are a way of translating patterns or movement in the universe which are
too large to grasp into a form we can handle, and letting us take some 
conscious control of our lives, using "prayer" or "magic" or whatever as a
sort of lever to move this very large whole at least a bit.  Was that at all
coherent?

I suppose an existentialist would never buy the idea of gods having independent
existence, separate from  the needs and wishes of humans.

Dammit Jim, im a toaster not a drifter!!!
         -- ENIGMA, Back in the CANTELOUPE days.

re #31  that's an interesting thought.
When I was in high school, I wrote an essay on my opinion that "god" was
an imaginary thing that people invented as a sort of crutch.  I said 
that it was a convenience...if it was too hard, you could ask god for 
help.  I still believe this.  I think that g"god" is really some part of your
psyche that most people don't understand, so want to project it.  (really good
grammar there- sorry) I guess that's why existentialism fits me... it says
basically the same  thing.  ( I think). What I was curious about is how it fits
in (or doesn't) with paganism. According to my stated beliefs, would pagan gods
serve the same function as the christian god?  Or are they something totally
different?

As with most things, the answer is; "for some folks, yes."

Brenda,
if you're using it for self-empowerment...of course. You could in fact make
up your own gods. For a really good archetype check into J.R. Bob Dobbs, and
the Church of the Subgenius.

Or do what i've been doing for a while, in trying to create/find a religion
that i can belive in given my sceptical point of view:  mix n' match, take
some from one religion, some from another.  Gods aren't really even
necessary -- if it's ritual that you find interesting, why not ritual for it's
own sake?

  There's a danger there in creating something whose sole purpose is to
serve as an excuse for behavior that you enjoy but can't find any other
excuse for.

        Which isn't far from the way that most people use established
religions, to begin with. 

Do not eschew actions for which you can find no excuse, but which you enjoy.
Eschew rather actions for which you can find reasons *not* to do.
=}
In other words, if it ain't hurtin' anyone, why do you need an excuse to do
it?

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss