Ok, here's where the discussion of pagan religions working together moved
to.  Can we? Should we?  Why don't we? (more, anyway) What constitutes a
separate religion versus a sub-sect?  What kind of work can we do together
and what belongs in its own select context?  And while we're at it, what do
"organized religions" do or give their members that we should be doing. I
think we all have ideas about what we'd like to avoid.

23 responses total.

Should We?  Of course we should.
I have no answeres for the other questions at this time.

I think we should avoid taking away our own tradtions, or homogenizing them.
The differences are what makes the community(ha!) great. Too many people
want to tka ea little of this and a little of that, though I *do* agree with
eclectisism, this can be damaging. It can create a very "watered down" system.
One without continuity.
The other side are those who have no mind to change, to evolve. That's no good
either.

Yeah, I have a real objection to the "Chinese restaraunt tradition"- pick one
godform from pantheon A and one from pantheon B, pick a Roman holiday, give
it a Celtic name and celebrate it in Wiccan/neo-pagan style.  I think far too
many people not only practice that way, they don't know there is any other way
and haven't thought it through carefully enough to see a problem.  I'd much
rather do enough study to know how the Greeks related to their gods, how the
Celts did, etc. and choose the appropriate approach/pantheon for me, or for the
purpose at hand.  That might mean that even within one coven/group we might
need to stretch ourselves a bit to participate in a ritual run by another
member in a style other than we might choose.  Even moreso when visiting other
groups, but I think it's useful discipline to learn to understand how other
people see things and to work in other styles.  Perhaps this attitude will 
help us learn to respect groups who work in different ways, rather than falling
prey to "one true way-ism".  One reason we resort to pablum when designing
large public rituals may be (I hate to say it) a lack of respect for any
tradition with which we are not intimately familiar, and/or a lack of trust.
That gets into the issue of "credentials" and standardization: what does YOUR
first degree mean?, etc. (and what of those who self-initiate or don't deal
with that system at all?).  I don't have any easy solution to these problems,
other than time and communication.  Wonder who might.

The "credential" part is quite an issue. I think part of the problem is too 
many people want to be teachers and priests. Though we may all be trying to
help do good, everyone isn't going to be a teacher. And that's ok.
It seems we've forgotten that we need people doing things other than being
priests/tesses.
Does this seem reasonable? Or is this way too amer/xtian?

of course it's true.  Here's part of the conflict: we come from a hierarchical
so(am I on tty2? well.) society, so when we go to create a non-hierarchical
religion, we end up trying to lump everyone at the "top".  We have perhaps
failed to see that each function is equally important- teacher, priest/ess,
healer, warrior, seer, "engineer" and even "congrigant".  Perhaps as we learn
to recognize those functions more people will take pride in the roles that
suit them best.

Personally, I like the system of forming circles to be a very efficient way of
dealing with a non-heirarchal format. In order to balance the circle you need a
set of people who's skills and powers even each other out. If you e of just
priests, or just warriors, or just one kind of anything, they'd be way
overbalanced and outclassed. not to mention the mess they'd make trying to
decide who does what.

It seems many religions use archetypal images for evoking transcendent
experience.  That is, that the experience trancends the symbolic
image, not that the experience is an any way "super-normal."  I 
believe that people's combined power is always communicating and working
together.  It's important to me to have deep religious experience, but I so
often end up not feeling comfortable with the specifics of one sect or another.
 So what's to do?  How do you bring groups together without watering the whole
thing down?  Then again, are we a whole bunch of fetishists or what?  Yup.

Logos,
I think the Pagan community is still figuring this one out. It *is* tough,
but it's possible to bring people of differing religions together.

This is what we've done here, i think.  taken many people from different
religious areas, with different experiences/beliefs, and we have a
community where they can interact, share ideas, etc.

I never thought of it like that, but you're right!

I still like getting together in a the Non-Cyber world. Though to be 
honest, it's so much easier getting here! I can do it any time, and
at least many places.
My fear is that people will try to replace physical gatherings with this
sort of gathering. I think *that* would be a mistake.

I second this viewpoint.  The trick is to utilize "cyberspace" without
becoming its slave.  Of course the fact that I'm able to state this
opinion here makes me feel a bit hypocritical.

Here's an example- we can plan and organize face-to-face gatherings fairly
efficiently through mail, without trying to play telephone tag.  We could,
for example, design a group ritual.  But we couldn't easily perform such a
ritual to any good effect (although the image of a bunch of people chanting
in front of their terminals, entering call and response, etc. is rather
amusing).  Also, while we might develop a degree of familiarity and trust
here, a group of people all need to be together to really develop a high
level of comfort and a "group mind".  Phaedrus, does this reassure you a bit?

Without a doubt Kami:)
I agree with that. There has been alot of talk lately about trusy on the
net. I think the face to face thing is a great idea.

Great.  How about an outing, say- to Rennaisance Acres?  Or meet for tea at
Sweetwaters and then go book-shop hopping?  Just an idea, I know this is the
wrong item for it.

Sounds great to me.
It might be tough getting a time when everyone is available, but it's worth 
a try!

Well, I'd put in a vote for a Friday evening or Sunday morning/noon.

SUNDAY, SUNDAY!!! What else would a bunch of Pagans be doing on Sunday 
morning anyway...

heh

why, sleeping, of course :)
Now, who else wants to go, and when?  I'm free this Sunday, although it may 
be a bit short notice for them.  Next week is Father's day, but I haven't
anything scheduled.  The following two weeks we'll be away.  Anyone else?

Wait a minute- this is supposed to be in the "herbs" item or some such, which
is linked so would probably get more response.  Phaedrus, do you have time to
handle finding the right place and starting the discussion over?  Thanks.

Yes, this isn't the "herbs thread", but I'd like to put in my vote
for next Sunday.  I'd like to make it, but I have company this weekend.

Next Sunday sounds like a plan to me too. Let me double check. I'll confirm
tommorow.
I think I'm usualy being a good sleeping Pagan on Sunday morning too. That
or drinking coffee, my 3rd favorite pastime.

So we're planning for Fathers' day?  I'll talk to Peter if I get to the
Farmers' mkt on Sat. AM, or call him.  I'll go find that other thread now.

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