This is the item to discuss alternative relogions, including (but not
limited to) Wicca, Voudon, Asatru, and anything else.

180 responses total.

I'm glad to see that you included an African tradition in the description, 
there's a real air of mistrust about some of the African Witchcraft right now,
at least in my experience. Which is odd I think among Pagans, people that
have been treated many times with such intolerance, treating others the
same way!
-Phaedrus

I know someone who pratices the Yoruba tradition of Voudon, and a few
others who use bits of it here and there.  They're really neat people.
The worst thing I've heard said about Voudon is that they kill animals
as part of their rituals.  But then they eat them afterwards, so how
is this different from anyone else killing and eating an animal?

THANK YOU!! I am a believer of Sateria, and agree with you totally! It is
incredible to me that people that eat meat so casualy, could point a finger  at
such practices! The African traditions I've studied(ing), are great! And have a
high respet for life, AND death! -Phaedrus

've seen in pagan circles. These people who condemn the killing of animals and 
fail to recognize there is life and inteligence in all things need an awakening
of some sort.  By the way there will be a open discussion on Pagan Ethics at
the I.C.C. education center 7:00pm. If you are interested in trying at least to
make a difference then please come and share your ideas and experiences.

Um, what day is that?  I was told it was June 30th.

you are right of course. June 30,1993 is the correct date. I am starting to get
these events and meetings mixed up. guess it's time to slow down so I don't 
trip over myself.

And for those of us who forgot, tomorrow (6-30) is the date for the
Pagan Ethics discussion.  7 PM, ICC Education Center on Hill St.

I practice the 500 year old Viking religion.  Damn is it pretty clear sailing
until the exact day of death.

I just got back from Starwood, and I went to a talk given by Issac Bonnowits,
it was part of an on-going discussion in the community about the Pagan
community keeping so-called satanists at an arms length. He also attacked
the Temple of Set. He basiclly said we shouldn't have anything to do with 
these folks, they are our enemies, and we should stay away. I am not a 
satanist or a Setite, but I think his dismissal is in the spirit of those
that put US down. 
Comments??
-Phaedrus

Phaedrus,

What you quoted seems to be the trouble with all religions, imho.  We
have enough trouble in the world without people feeling superior to
others just because of what deity they worship. geez

I agree, that really IS my only problem with other beliefs, that is when they
start telling me that MY beliefs are wrong because their beliefs say so..??!!
But you must admit, christianity has done a great job of slaughtering 
other religions, or at least the people that practice them.
-Phaedrus

Everyone should check out Pagan Digest number 87 in my home directory.
It has information on recent anti-Pagan activity in Arkansas.  (I'd put
it here in the item, but it's waaaaaaay long.)

I have recently had my first lucid dream experience, incredible!!! It was
in context with my conscious life right now and helped me to make decisions
on "this side".  Has anyone one else had this type of experience??
Was it connected to a particular tradition??
My experience was most definatly connected to Santeria, very specificaly!
-phaedrus

I've had several lucid dreams through the years, at least one connected
to my occult practices.  The problem is, they never last for more than
a few seconds.  As though my subconcious were trying to hide something.
Hmm...

Maybe your reistration in the Akkashic record room has expired...!!??
That's weird, can you remember anything of the dream or is it so brief
that you can't? Ihave 1 or two dreams a year that I remember, and none of
them have ever been very odd, standard cartoon like dreams. This seemed so 
real, it didn't seem like a dream, I even thought in it, wow, this doesn't
look like a dream... I've never knew a dream was a dream, eh?!
-phaedrus

I've visited the Ackashic records hall, and it's pretty neat! Anyone else
been there? :)

Every once in a while my mind visits there without telling me, and really 
shakes up my day!:)
-phaedrus

Anyone familiar with the "Sabien" tradition. I believe it's based on
the mysteries of Egypt.
-phaedrus

All I know about the Sabaeans, or however it's spelled, is what I
read in _Drawing_Down_the_Moon_.  Doesn't sound like something
I'd want to try.

Thanks for the spelling correction, I could feel that one coming.
Now, Rob, explain please? Having read that book a while back, I don't recall
anything about it at all. Looks like it's time for a reread!
-phaedrus

Geeze, it's only been four years since I read it!  I remember that
they were very formal and had loads and loads of rules and dogma and
whatnot, and it didn't sound like something I wanted to try.  What brings
on this question?

I met a guy from a Group in Chicago that practices it. And even after talking
to him a bit, I never really got a sense of the tradition. And to be
honest, your asessment sounds acurate.
And although I agree with your view on dogma, it seems to me that many
Neo-Pagans use the lack of rules to justify unhealthy behavior. I am 
an extremest when it comes to knocking down "god's laws", but it seems to me
that many people misinterpret this to mean do anything you want, to anyone
you want. A reexamination of the creed "Do as thou wilt" is in order!
As long as I'm on the soapbox...
Are you getting as pissed as I am about these...people that continue to
attack doctors clinics that perform abortions! I can't believe this.
I say we organize a demonstration at some of the churches of these assholes.
As far as I'm concerned I think they're destroying people!
sigh...
sorry, it's my weekly rant.
-phaedrus

Unfortunately, to them it makes sense.  They kill or maim one doctors,
and hundreds of "babies" are saved.  Of course, I could use this same
logic to jusitfy killing those protestors to save the live of doctors,
but I won't stoop to their level.

On the Arcana mailing list, someone mentioned a friend who was a
Fundamentalist Christian.  This friend work for an oil company,
using bacteria to locate likely oil supplies.  I'm not clear on the
specifics, but it involves the evolution of the bacteria.  He asked
his friend, "If you don't believe in evolution, how can you perform
this job?"  His friend replied, "Simple.  I don't think about both
at the same time."  Sad, isn't it?

HOW...could one live life, in what must be constant denial?
Hypocracy in action.
I guess maybe that's why so many people are...defecting. Being unable to
have, "faith", in what is obviously a contradiction.
Well, enough bashing...NOT!
I heard am interview on Fresh air last night, on a doctor who performs abortion
and is beibng harassed beyond words. I just don't get it. MAybe I should
be thankful that I DON'T get it!
-phaedrus

Happy Samhain to all.
Peace and Blessings.
-phaedrus

HELLO, Hello, hello...anybody out there...?
-phaedrus

     Hello, I'm back.  I stand in the role of an extreme neo-pagan myself,
and the circle I've joined is one that is very loose in its rules.  The two
women who sort of run it are both very much of the do what works mind set.
But isn't the creed "And you harm none, do as you will?"  It's the first
part that you seem to feel is lacking in some neo-pagans, and I'd guess
you're probably right.
     I came in contact with someone (names are irrelevant here) who by the
descriptions of those in ritual with her used the ritual as a place where
she could loose all the negative energy that badly damaged self-esteem, wild
insecurity, and a possible abusive history could provide on her unsuspecting
co-participants.  Now for those who were used to working with her, this was
ok.  But on a time my fiancee (more on that later) went to one of their
rituals.  It was her first ritual.  She has practically non-existent
shields.  She came out so fried that she decided to go solitary at least for
a while.  Bloody irresponsible, but that seemed to characterize the
perpetrator in her mundane life as well.
     On the subject of lucid dreaming, isn't that what scrying tries to
cause?
     Blessed be
     Chris

The ritual "crime" you described seems to be all to common. I think too many
people jump into circles without thinking about thier state of mind. It's a
bad idea, in my experience, to hop into circle with people when you're 
having serious problems of one kind or another, without telling the other 
participants. It does tend to this sort of "dumping". And many people have 
loads of garbage already on thier shoulders. My wife had a similar experience
to the one you describes Chris.
Yes, I suppose you're right, that's what scrying dies try to cause. I guess
it seems weird when it happens without trying to cause it. That's what most
interested me. I'd never had it happen before when I was sleeping. I do
trance regularly, and enjoy it, it was just a wee bit strange when it 
popped into my sllep state. I should also mention that I rarely remember 
dreams, maybe once a year, this made it especially powerful!
-phaedrus

The rune mage has entered the building.  Look out for a man impersonating
Loki running around the mall naked attacking nithngr.

Chris- bummer! "psychic manners" are one of the first things I was taught: if
you can't put aside, solve or shield your problems, at least warn everyone-- 

they might be able to help...  Some people don't notice the effect they are
having, some can't help it, some unfortunately don't care.  Two solutions:
don't drop your shields too completely with strangers (rotten way to live),
avoid having to trust people you don't know.  Well, other than that, the group
you are now with sounds very pleasant.  How is it working out? Do they manage
to balance eclectecism with a reasonable degree of organization?  They open to
meeting other folks?  I'm still feeling a bit isolated here, since most of the
paganfolk I  know are out east or in Canada. sigh!

     Hi Kami.  The group I spoke of where the mental vampirism took place is
separate from the group I'm in.  Unfortunately, it seems that the word
"group" is a misnomer.  It seems to be a collective of individuals seeking
very different things.  One member wishes to delve into deep mysteries
(whatever that means).  One enjoys the rush of ritual, and is content with
that.  We run the gambit from those who believe in the actual manifestation
of the gods and godedesses they invoke, to those who see it as directed
meditation and metaphor.  Me, I'm so new at all of this, and come at it from
a different starting point anyway.  The strongest part of my spiritual
training has been connected with martial arts of various sorts.  This has
given me a reasonable grasp of energy (ki or chi, your choice), but left me
in some sense not well grounded at all for some more esoteric or specific
applications of it.  I know how to summon it in myself, and how to focus it
to some degree.  But having a tool and knowing what to do with it are two
different things.
     In short, I'm a little at sea.  I got a lot out of my first ritual, but
apparently others did not, though no one told me that until nearly a month
later.  So I'm not sure whether or not I'm in a group or not.
     Chris

sorry- sometimes I blither and forget to signal changes of direction.  I under-
stood that the two groups were separate.  Fortunate for you and yours...

Sometimes what brings a group together is nothing more than proximity.  I think
the range of approaches is more common than a unified one, just because we all
come from so many backgrounds.  Yours is also not uncommon.  As to working with
energy, practice, practice, practice :) I came from something closer to the
other end-- I knew what to do but couldn't see what I was doing, so had NO
confidence AT ALL!  It constantly amazes me now when something seems clear and
obvious, but there's still such a long way to go. 
You said "I'm not sure if I'm in a group or not".  How do you feel about the
people?  Is there a bond of trust?  Are they people you consider friends, or
is this just association proximity?  Your learning will certainly be limited
if there is not a strong bond.  A way- station is better than nothing, but 
shouldn't stop you looking for a better "fit".

Oops!  I'm blithering again.  And I hardly know you.  Sorry- odd reaction to
this medium: no feedback to teach me proper pacing.  Happy Yule all. Kami

     Kami, don't worry about blithering.  As I said in the banner, teach me
something.  It's good to get feedback, particularly from those who are more
experienced.
     RE the group.  I like all the members quite a bit.  There are some
politics that I won't go into, but in general, we are compatible.  As for
trust, it's hard to say, as I've not known them too long, and only done one
ritual with them.  I trust them sufficiently to believe they won't
intentionally do anything that would fry me.  Whether something could happen
accidentally-- who knows, though I doubt it.
     Chris

Doesn't it sometimes seem like the idea of a Coven is impossible!
Looking at this conversation really reminds me of me! I've heard Rob
describe many group gatherings as a singles club! Aint it the truth!
Peace and blesings,
-phaedrus

Practice doing the impossible, it broadens one's horizons... Seriously, the
ideal of a coven: perfect love and trust, compatible schedules, ecstatic 
transformation as/through worship on a regular basis, etc. may be an impossible
goal, but it's something to work toward.  One might hope it would reduce the 
"singles club" atmosphere somewhat, although I've also seen a bit of a "free
love festival" environment on occasion.  It seems to me, when all is said and
done, that necessity brings people together much more tightly than does the 
mere passage of time, unless the group is really not ready to work together, in
which case it disintegrates under stress.  Also, it has so- far always seemed
that at least one member of the group needed a greater amount of love and 
protection, which helped bring them all together.  The catch is that the real
help said person gets is limited to what will make them stonger but NOT inde-
pendent.  A better model is when all in turn support one another's weak spots.
If you are doing some sort of serious work: healing, "ghost hunting", eath
acupuncture, whatever, I think people work harder at this sort of mutual
support and create a stronger bond than when your only stated purpose is the
vague category of "study" or "celebration".  There's a bit of a chicken and
egg problem, in that the density of educated (even moderately), sane and 
committed people is not often high enough to integrate novices without losing
momentum, and a pure teaching circle may not generate enough momentum for real
growth and learning, etc.  Oh, well, we keep on trying.  Once again I'm looking
around, hoping to find folks that are local and compatible, and missing the
higher population density there seems to be in New England.  Sigh!
Joyous Yule, all.  Looking foreward to lots of glowing reports. Well, I'm 
a bit of an optimist :)
Bright blessings, Kami

  The High Cleric of Loki would like to admit that he is not yet a rune mage.
He is studying to become one.

good!

Thanketh thou

Would the Cleric mind sharing with us the method that he is using to
study to become a rune mage?  What methods are you using? What source
material?  
I'm not asking so that I can flame you, I'm just curious.
Fox

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss