Hi, I'm Fox. I'm a local member of Ar nDraiocht Fein: A Druid Fellowship
and I am attempting to start a local grove here in Ann Arbor.  So far we
have formed a protogrove called "Locha Gealla: Shining Lakes Protogrove, ADF".


We (mostly my wife Jaguar and I, with an occaisional guest or two) have been 
holding private rituals here on the high days for 1 1/2 years.  I plan to 
begin holding meetings for anyone interested in the next month or so.

I created this item so that I could provide some information on our 
organization in response to a couple of requests.  What follows are some
standard Q&A notes, mostly from ADF literature.  I hope that this will be of 
interest.

I'll appologize for the long posts to follow before I even start, we Druids
can get a bit wordy :-).

258 responses total.

WHAT IS ADF?

The Irish words, Ar nDraiocht Fein, pronounced "arn ree-oct fane", mean "Our
Own Druidism", and that's just what ADF is - a completely independant traditio
of Neopagan Druidism. Like our sisters and brothers in the other Neopagan 
movements, we're polytheistic Nature worshipers, attempting to revive the
best aspects of the Paleopagan faiths of our ancestors within a modern
scientific, artistic, ecological, and wholistic context.  Like our predecessors
and namesakes the Druids, we're people who believe in excellence - physically,
intellectually, artistically, and spiritually.

     We're researching and expanding sound modern scholarship about the 
ancient Celts and other Indo-European peoples, in order to reconstruct what
the Old Religions of Europe really were.  We're working on the development
of genuine artistic skills in composition and presentation.  We're designing
and performing competent magical and religious ceremonies to change ourselves
and the world we live in.  We're adapting the polytheologies and customs of 
both the Indo-European Paleopagans and the Neopagan traditions that have been
created over the last fifty years.  We're creating a non-sexist, non-racist,
organic, and open religion to practice as a way of life and to hand on to our
grandchildren.  We're integrating ecological awareness, alternative healing
arts, and psychic development into our daily activities.  Together, we're
sparking the next major phase in the evolution of Neopaganism and planting
seeds for generations to come.

     ADF was started by P.E.I. (Isaac) Bonewits, known in the Neopagan
community as an author (Real Magic, The Druid Chronicles Evolved, Authentic
Thaumaturgy), editor, teachor, polytheologian, activist, priest and bard. He
has been a Neopagan Druid for nearly twenty years and has dedicated his life
to reviving Druidism as a modern, healthy, "Third Wave" religion capable of
protecting and preserving Mother Nature and all Her children.

     More than 400 people have joined ADF, making us the largest Neopagan
Druid organization in the world.  Grove and protogroves are being organized
all over the USA (and in a few other countries).  Regional gatherings are 
being held at the solstices and equinoxes.  In short, although our longrange
approach is "as fast as an oak tree", we're growing more rapidly than any of
us expected.  So ask yourself - why not excellence?

     An application for membership and further information can be obtained by
sending a SASE with your request to: ADF, P.O. Box 516, E. Syracuse, NY 
13057

(More coming right up from the shameless plug dept...<G>

WHAT DO NEOPAGAN DRUIDS BELIEVE?

     Many of the members of Ar nDraiocht Fein: A Druid Fellowship, Inc. 
("ADF") have come to accept most of the following beliefs.  However, it's 
important to remember that not everyone would use the term "belief" in
reference to these concepts, and that every concept mentioned has a wide
variety of accepted interpretations within the organization.

THOU ART GOD/DESS
     We believe that divinity is both immanent (internal) and transcendent
(external), with immanence being far more important for us to pay attention to
at this crucial plase of human history.  Deities can manifest at any point in
space or time which They might choose, including within human beings (through
the process known as "inspiration", "channeling", and "possession").

GODDESSES AND GODS
     We believe that divinity is as likely to manifest in a female form as it
is in a male form, and that the work "Goddess" makes just as much sense as
"God".  Women and men are spiritually equal, and "masculine" and "feminine"
attitudes, values, and roles are of equal importance.

POLYTHEISM
     We believe in a mutiplicity of Gods and Goddesses, as well as lesser
beings, many of Whom are worthy of respect, love and worship. We have a wide
variety of nonexclusive concepts as to the nature of these entities.  While
some of us believe in a "Supreme Being", Neopagan Druidism is emphatically
polytheistic.  We have no figure of ultimate Evil.

NATURE WORSHIP
     We believe that it is necessary to have respect and love for Nature as
divine in Her own right, and to accept ourselves as part of Nature and not 
Her "rulers".  Many of us accept what has come to be known as "the Gaia
hypothesis", that the biosphere of our planet is a living being, Who is due
all the love and support that we, Her children, can give Her.  We consider
ecological awareness and activism to be sacred duties.

CAUTIOUS TECHNOPHILIA
     We believe in accepting the positive aspects of Western science and
technology, but in maintaining an attitude of wariness toward the supposed
ethical neutrality of that science and technology.  We also consider it
important that scientists (like everyone else) pay as much attention to their
means as they do their goals.

Continued.....

RELIGIOUS FREEDOM
     We believe that monolithic religious organizations and would-be messiahs
and supergurus are a hinderance to spiritual growth.  We believe that healthy
religions should have a minimum amount of dogma and a maximum amount of
eclecticism and flexibility. Neopagan Druidism is an organic religion, and 
like all other organisms is growing, changing, and producing offshoots.

POSITIVE ETHICS
     We believe that ethics and morality should be based upon joy, love,
self-esteem, mutual respect, the avoidance of actual harm to ourselves and
others, and the increase of public benefit.  We try to balance people's 
needs for personal autonomy and growth with the necessity of paying attention
to the impact of each individual's actions on the lives and welfare of others.

RELIGIOUS TOLERATION
     We believe that it's difficult for ordinary humans to commit offenses
against the Gods and Goddesses, short of major crimes such as ecocide or
genocide. Our deities are perfectly capable of defending Their own honor
without any need for us to punish people for "blasphemy" or "heresy".

THE GOOD LIFE
     We believe that human beings were meant to lead lives filled with joy,
love, pleasure, beauty and humor.  Most Neopagans are fond of food, drink,
music, sex, and bad puns, and consider all of these (except possibly the puns)
to be of spiritual value.  However, we do not approve of addictive or
compulsive behavior and we support people with dysfunctional histories who
have entered appropriate recovery programs.

MAGIC AND MYSTERY
     We believe that with proper training, art, discipline and intent, human
minds and hearts are fully capable of performing most of the magic and
miracles they are ever likely to need.  Magical/miraculous acts are done
through the use of what most of us perceive as natural (some say "divinely
granted") psychic talents.

LITURGICAL ART AND SCIENCE
     We believe that there is an art and a science to creating, preparing
and performing worship rituals.  Our worship celebrations are continually
evolving as we search for the most intellectually satisfying, artistically
beautiful, spiritually powerful and magically effective rites possible.

Continued...

CONNECTING TO THE COSMOS
     We believe in the importance of celebrating the solar, lunar and other cyc
cycles of our lives.  We consciously observe the solstices, equinoxes and the
points in between, as well as the phases of the moon.  Such "rites of 
intensification" are human universals, as are the various ceremonies known as
"rites of passage" -- celebrations of birth, puberty, personal dedication to
a given deity or group, marriage, ordination, death, etc.  Together these
various sorts of observations help us to find ourselves in space and time.

BORN AGAIN PAGAN
     Many of us believe in some sort of afterlife, usually involving rest and
recovery in the Otherworld before reincarnating.  We have no concept of
"eternal" punishment, refusing to worship deities who could be that cruel.

HOPE AND ACTION
     We believe that people have the ability to solve their current problems,
both personal and public, and to create a better world.  Our utopian vision,
tempered with common sense, leads us to a strong commitment to personal and
global growth, evolution and balance.

MYSTIC VISION
     We believe that people can progress far towards achieving personal
growth, evolution and balance through the carefully planned alteration of
their "normal" states of consciousness.  We use both ancient and modern
methods of concentration, meditation, reprogramming and ecstasy.

COMMUNITY RESPONSIBILITY
     We believe that human interdependence implies community service.  Some
of us are active in political, social, ecological and charitable organizations,
while others prefer to work for the public good primarily through spiritual
means (and many insist on doing both).

AUTHENTICITY
     We believe that if we are to achieve any of our goals, we must practice
what we preach.  Neopagan Druidism, like any other religion, should be a way
of life, not merely a weekly or monthly social function.  So we must always
strive to make our lives consistent with our proclaimed beliefs.

COOPERATON AND DEFENSE
     We believe in cooperation and ecumenical activities with those members of
other faiths who share all or most of these beliefs.  We also believe in
resisting efforts by members of dysfunctional religions who seek to persecute
us or suppress our human rights.

     There's more to our beliefs that these few details, of course, and a 
great deal of variation in how these beliefs are extended to cover other 
topics.  Some of our members are pacifists and others are in the military;
some are animal rights activists and vegetarians, others are carnivorous
hunters; some are committed to conservative and others to alternative life
styles.  We actively encourage everyone to apply these principles to the 
practical questions of their daily lives.

(c) 1993 c.e. by A.D.F.

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT A.D.F.

Where did ADF come from?
     ADF started in 1983 as a network of independent scholars interested in
legitimate research about the ancient Druids and their Indo-European
colleagues.  It quickly grew into a new Neopagan tradition (denomination),
complete with personal and group worship rituals, artistic endeavors, jokes,
songs and chants, and a genuine sense of family.  In many ways it was an 
outgrowth of the Reformed Druids of North America, an anarchistic movement
begun by college students in the mid-1960's, modified by the experiences of
the Neopagan community since (see Margot Adler's "Drawing Down the Moon" for
details).  Today, ADF is the largest Neopagan Druid organization in the 
English-speaking world.  While there are other Neopagan Druid organizations in
existence, by far the largest, best organized, most widely spread, and most
active is ADF.

ARE YOU REAL?
     Organizationally, we're as real as any other religious group. We are
registered in the state of Delaware as a Nonprofit Corporation and have
received recognition of our tax-exempt status from the IRS.  We have almost
twenty chartered local congregations (or "groves"), with more on the way in
the U.S. and Canada.  Appropriate legal and tax status in Canada, Australia
and other nations will be obtained as needed.  Historically, there are no
"real" Druids left.  The Paleopagan Druids were wiped out centuries ago and 
only fragments of their traditions survived.  Spiritually, we believe that we
are following the paths once trod by our namesakes and that no other name is
nobler or more suited to our modern intentions -- and that makes us real as 
far as we're concerned!

WHAT ABOUT OTHER DRUID GROUPS?
     ADF maintains friendly relations with the fraternal ("Mesopagan" or 
mixed Christian/Pagan) Druid orders in England and elsewhere, as well as with
the handful of other Neopagan Druid groups.  We encourage our members to 
investigate these other organizations and to learn as much as they can about
alternate paths of Druidism.  We are, however, quick to expose groups and 
individuals we believe to be fraudulent or dangerous, even though such
vigilance may be controversial.

ARE YOU A CULT?
     Not hardly.  The only dogma promulgated so far has been the Doctrine of
Archdruidic Fallibility -- requiring the members to accept that everyone in
ADF, from the Archdruid on, makes mistakes. Members are encouraged to 
(politely) argue with the leadership, to form their own opinions and special
interest groups, and to communicate as much as possible with both "insiders"
and "outsiders".  People without a sense of humor and proportion are
discouraged from seeking leadership positions.  Nepotism is forbidden,
financial records are open, everyone is accountable to everyone else, and the
members of the Mother Grove are not getting rich.  So what more do you want?

Continued....

BUT WHAT IF I'M NOT IRISH?
     You don't have to be. Despite the Irish name for our organization and the
use of the Celtic term for clergy ("druids"), our members come from a wide
variety of ancestries, including European, Asian, Native American, and 
African.  We have no time or sympathy for racist nonsense or cultural bigotry.
Our members honor Celtic, Germanic, Lithuanian, Polish, Greek, and other
Indo-European deities, ancestors and nature spirits.  It you're sincerely
interested in aby of the old I-E cultures and its metaphysics, arts, and
customs, then you're welcome in our ranks.

IS ADF WICCAN?
     The Wiccan ("Neopagan Witchcraft") movement includes the vast majority of
the 100,000 to 250,000 people involved in Neopaganism in North America.  
About three-quarters of our membership are or have been followers of Wicca, 
including a sizable number of Wiccan priests and priestesses who are using our
Study Program to improve their clergy skills.  The primary differences between
Druidism and Wicca are these: Druidism is polytheistic, large-group oriented,
and public.  Wicca is duotheistic, small-group oriented, and private. 
Nonetheless, the two religions have far more in common than they have 
separating them (see "What Do Neopagan Druids Believe?" for details). Wiccan
covens can (and do) function as special interest groups within larger ADF
groves, along with bardic, healing, ecological, divinatory, and other groups.

ARE DRUIDS ALL MEN?
     Despite the stereotypes of the ancient Druids as having been long-
bearded patriarchs, you didn't have to be a man to be a Druid back then and
you don't need to be male now.  Half of the membership of ADF is female and
women hold half of the positions of power in the organization.  We have 
deliberately chosen to make gender and affectional preferences irrelevant to
participation in ADF.  As worshippers of the Earth Mother, we can do no less.
In fact, one of our primary religious symbols, "the Druid Sigil", represents
Her.

DIDN'T THE ANCIENT DRUIDS DO HUMAN SACRIFICE?
     Yes, it's true.  But then, so did the clergy of almost every other 
religion in human history, including the monotheistic ones.  Neopagan
Druids are forbidden to practice human or animal sacrifice in our rituals.
Instead we offer the Goddesses and Gods flowers, fruits, wine, incense, music,
song, drama, prayer, and -- most important of all -- our love.  The deities 
seem to find it more than sufficient.

WHAT ARE THE DRUID HOLIDAYS?
     We celebrate the turning of the Wheel of the Year by observing eight
"High Days" -- the solstices and the equinoxes, as well as the halfway points 
between which were originally the great fire festivals of our European
predecessors).  Due to our calendrical researches, we often celebrate the 
Major High Days a few days after other Neopagans do.  Some groves also 
celebrate the various phases of the moon, or the beginning and ending of
various hunting, fishing, and agricultural seasons.

WHAT EXACTLY IS AN ADF GROVE?
     An ADF grove is any group of three or more voting members of ADF over
the age of 18, who live in the same general geographical area, who gather
together at least twice a month to study and practice Druidism within the
context of A'r nDrai'ocht Fe'in, and who are chartered by the Mother Grove 
(the Board of Directors) of ADF as a local congregation.
     An ADF grove provides open worship ceremonies for all eight High Days,
study groups for various Druidic arts and sciences, fellowship, hard work,
and lots of fun.  Almost any member of ADF can plant a "protogrove" just by
asking.  All groves and protogroves are listed in our publications on a 
regular basis, making it easy for other members to contact you.  

(c) 1993 c.e. by A.D.F.

all that's all I can manage to type... had it....used it up.....later...

So, if any of you have any questions I'll be glad to field them....
Fox

yes, you are a bit wordy :)  Fairly clear, though.  I'm still not sure why
you need to have open worship celebrations at both quarter and cross-quarter
days, since only the cross-quarter days had any recognized significance in the
Irish/Celtic calendar.  I believe the equinoxes and solstices, like the idea
of 4 elements, were brought in later.  Any info or opinion?

Indeed, (Muise! :-)) it is true that the MOST Celtic of the eight Neo-Pagan 
holidays are the fire festival days or quarter festivals. (the solstices 
and equinoxes are the cross-quarters)  These festivals-Samhain, Oimelc,
Beltane, and Lughnasadh-are our (ADF) major high days.  

Oops, got dumped out of the editor so I'll continue here...

The Insular Celts also celebrated Mean Geimredh and Mean Samradh (the Solsti
).  This was probably, though there's no way to know for sure, a result of 
their contact with Anglo-Saxon influences.  

To answer your question, the reason why we celebrate all eight of the high 
days is that we are Pan-Indo-European, and not exclusively Celtic.  The minor
high days-Mean Geimredh, Mean Errach, Mean Samradh, and Mean Foghamhar 
(more commonly-Winter Solstice, Spring Equinox, Summer Solstice, and Fall
Equinox)- have origins in many of the continental European religions, 
such as the Greeks, Romans, Germans, Slavs, Balts, etc. I believe that 
most of the continental Celts also celebrated these minor holidays.

Our minor high days pretty much correspond with the rest of the Neo-Pagan
community, but our major days are celebrated long after most of the rest of
the community.  The reason for this is that our High Days occur when the sun
reaches a point in the sky that is 16 degrees, 18 minutes of declination
north or south of the Celestial Equator.  This is based on the research of
Robert Larson into the Coligny Calendar as well as his analysis of the
observation angles that he believes were used at Stonehenge.  This puts them
within a few hours of the actual midpoint between the solstices and 
equinoxes.  Although I do have to admit that our grove celebrates them on
the closest weekend to the actual point.  Sigh, the cruelties of modern life..

I like the greater accuracy you are describing, although the "official" times
this year seem to be falling on or near weekends, which is lovely for those
with lives.  
If you look at the names of the equinoxes and solstices, you'll see that they
represent the middles of things, while the Celts celebrated the borders. I've
heard that the name Samhain, for example, refers to the end of Samonios-
summerDon't know how Beltaine fits there.  Always heard those (and Lugnasadh
and  Imbolc) refered to as "cross quarter" days, but I guess the other way
works if we are looking at middles and ends rather than religious vs.
agricultural days.

Gazing into my Irish Dictionary (Ugh!, the spaces between Wednesdays are 
getting shorter! :-)) I see that summer is "Samhradh".  Since Samhain is,
among other things, the festival of the end of Summer, that must play in 
there somehow.  The term Samonios comes from the Coligny Calendar, so I guess
it must be the Gaulish equivalent.  Would be interesting to find a literal
translation of Samhain.

I know you probably know these but for others: Beltane is translated as
"bright fire" or "goodly fire" and is related to the God Belenos.  Lughnasadh
refers to the God Lugh.  Imbolc (or Oimelc, etc.) ...  I don't know what it
means!  Any ideas?  It can't be refering to milk, which we know to be 
"bainne"...or sheep "caora" or birth "breith" or spring "errach".
Fox

showoff!  hey- that's MODERN Irish: linguistic drift and continental vs. irish
usage may be pertinent in looking for literal meanings.  I can ask, but that
requires surface mail, which is so much slower :)
Imbolc is still pronounced like Oimelc as far as I know.  I believe the root
is the "bolc" part, but I don't know if I have any details written down.  I
may have for the other days, but it would be odd lines buried in somethig else.

I have heard Imbolc translated as "In the belly". I can't for the life of
me remember where I read this. I'll try and find the source, since this 
seems to be a *very* acurate thread!
-phaedrus

Oh don't be fooled, we're all beginners with many miles to crawl :).  And 
besides Phaedrus you get the prize of the day!  Looking into my MODERN ;)
Irish dictionary I see that belly is "bolg"!  ...
Uh oh, hold the modem... I just looked up "im-" and it says that it means
"great" or "very".  

So I guess my vote would be for "great {as in large} belly" or 
"way pregant".  What do y'all think?

By the way.... Although this is a slight diversion from the topic currently
at hand I wanted to mention what's going on with the grove.

We are holding a business meeting this week in preparation for our first open
meeting which will be held on Thursday, March 24th, at 7:00 in the Common
Languages Bookstore at 215 S. 4th in Ann Arbor.  All are invited.

This will be a meet and greet sort of thing with a discussion of who we are
and what the grove will be doing (hopefully including some direction from
you).  We are starting from the beginning so if you want to see what ADF
Druids do, we'd love to have you along.  You are welcome to come and join or
just come and see what we're up to.  We are a VERY small group at this point
and hope to have you along for the adventure!

Part of our focus in the near future will be preparation for Beltane.  We will
soon begin the ritual (and physical) construction of our Nemeton in the forest
near Ann Arbor ("Nemeton" is our word for our ritual site).  I will be leading
a "Druidism 101" class in the near future (probably April 14th).

We also plan to do social stuff such as attend concerts, have picnics, etc and
you don't have to join to attend.  Anyway, that's enough promotion for one 
post.  

I would love to hear from those who will attend so that we will know how much
refreshment to bring.
Fox

that fits- February is a time when the Earth is pregnant with the Spring that
is about to burst forth- then it makes you wait and wait.  I thought I had 
remembered "bolg" as meaning cave, sack or clay, but I don't have a reference
handy.  I've heard that Lughnasadh refered to the marriage, not birth of Lugh, 
but I'm not sure.  Those two are a little less clear and striking than Beltaine
and Samhain.  Imbolc is my favorite festival for which to write ritual, though.
Unfortunately, Lughnasadh comes in high summer, when I am largely useless.  It
is the only non-winter time of solemn ritual in the Celtic calendar, according
to some of what I have learned.  The time of story telling, which is a magical,
ritual, instructive act, is from Samhain to Beltaine, especially before Imbolc.

this is johnna on gwydion's account I'm alittle curious for more details
on your conception of the afterlife, Fox.  Is the ADF line reincarnation?
If so, are we reincarnated into only human bodies or also animals.
Does karma or the accumulation of positive or negative energies during
life have any bearing on what happens to a soul in the afterlife?

So sorry, Fox can
t (that was "can't"- trigger happy [return] key...) get to Grex easily anymore,
since his bbs is running on the computer that was willing to talk to it. The
laptop won't.  Useful questions.  Shall I pass them on, or will you drop into
the meeting this Thurs. (June 16 at 7:PM- common language books)?  Incidentally
I believe the next meeting will be June 30th, immediately followed by a Grove
campout at Pinckney State Park (Hell Creek Ranch) on July 1-3.  If someone
wants to come to that, they should call Fox at 665-8428.

 .

while we're here, I might mention that the Grove is going to the Renn Fest this
Saturday and planning to camp out near by.  Looks like about 7 of us so far. 
We're meeting at the Ann Arbor Hilton (near Briarwood) at 9:AM, and anyone who
comes separately we will look for at the stone arch near the front gate at
11:AM ans Noon.  Anyone joining us?  Call Fox to let him know if you want to
(see response # 19 for phone).  

Also, our Equinox ritual will be Sunday Sept. 18 at 4:PM, in Ann Arbor on
Miller Rd. west of M14.  It will be a Harvest Feast, and people are encouraged
to bring something they grew or made or at least which is seasonal, and if
possible to think about whether it might be considered the gift of/to a
particular deity or power (Earth Mother, your own patron, the Warrior spirits-
if it was a real struggle to make :), the spirits of nature, etc.)  We'll
probably do a fair amount of singing and chanting and drumming to celebrate the
Harvest and thank the Gods and all that. Should be lots of fun.  Call if you'd
like to come. Gambit,sorry about the distance...<g>

I know this may be a stupid question but, I have been reading and studing "21
Lessons of Merlin" and it says Druids are vegetarians. Beenind Neo-druids has
that custom..er belief still hold true till this day and to what extent.

no way!  as I said in another item, that book is utter bullsh*t!!! He made it
up!  badly!
Druids could NOT be vegetarians:
1. They shared the meat of sacrifice, and had one of the honour portions.
2. Some forms of divination involved eating specific parts of an animal and
then waiting for dreams.
3. Food prohibitions were individual.  The culture recconned (sp?) wealth by
cattle and sheep, and made them an important part of feasts, while pigs were
at some times a sacred/supernatural food- the stories may well reflect actul
(actual) practice in some degree.
4. The druids were next to the chieftains.   They did not practice asceticism:
it is not part of the culture, except in marginal people- sacred madmen, etc.
5. Among modern druids, it varies as much as anywhere in American/Western 
culture: some are rabid carnivores, some strict vegans, some in between.  Food
or fasting is only one way of approaching the sacred.

do You suggest any books to read on this topic?

Then all of Monroes books are not good sourses?

correct- all of Monroe's books are bad sources.  List will be forthcoming
shortly.

Munroe's books may be acceptable sources for a personal religious path,
but the do not in any way, shape, or form, reflect any serious scholarship
or disciplined approach towards authentic or historical Druidism.
(More actful way of saying what Kami said.  :-) 

tactful, maybe?  :)

I'm not long on tact, sorry.  I'm good for a laugh now and then, though.

References on Druidism and Celtic society:
Wow!  I just picked up a new one that looks fabulous! On the structure of
Celtic society and law: _Cattle Lords and Clansmen_ by Nerys Patterson, 1994,
University of Notre Dame Press.

Other excellent books:
Anne Ross, _Everyday Life of the Pagan Celts_ and _Life and Death of a Druid
Prince_.  Strong archeological basis, as has T.G.E. Powell,_The Celts_
Also: _The Druids_, (popular title<g>) by Stuart Piggott, Nora Chadwick or
T.D. Kendrick.  I can't think of any specific fiction titles just at the
moment, but there are a few books out there that give a surprisingly good
feel for the life of the time.  Of course, there're always the Asterix
comics :) 

What Kami lacks in tact she makes up for in brutal honesty...a rare quality.

To true, unfortunately.  (The rarity is unfortunate, that is)

There's a paper here in Seattle that has the # to a pagan bbs, and it is ru run
by a ADF member, does any one know aboutr it and if so is it internet
accessable?

I don't believe it's internet accessible, but try logging into the new Celtic
list-serve, nemeton-l.  To join send mail to majordomo@io.com, and make the
body of the message "subscribe <nemeton-l> <gambit@cyberspace.org>" (or 
whatever you want to use).  I think I got that right.  Anyway, it's a very
high level of scholarship and might not be what you want right now, but many
of the same people are on it, so they will be able to tell you how to get
to the bbs.

Yes, it was tactful, not actful.  Caught it myself but was too
lazy to change it.
Michael's the tactful one.  I find that many good couples have a 
tactful one and a blunt one.  Valerie's brutally blunt when she wants
to be; I have to follow her around smoothing out edges.  
Both honesty and tact are good in their appropriate places.
(Was that tactful enough?  :-)

not bad, dear.  Sometimes Michael is tactful.  Sometimes he's clueless. And
he has scant regard for social grace, while I am graceless but not ignorant.
YOu two do ok,but you both get didactic in your particular areas. I find that
endearing, but then I'm wierd.

Didactic?  I was never sure what that meant.  Explain please.
Once again, brutally honest on your part.  :-)

This sounds like "As the Synth Turns."

Re# 35:  That's why we love you.  Anyone can be "normal"

Thanx kami for that address. hopefully soon i'll have my account open. Who's
NoRmAl? bEiNg NoRmAl Is sO BoRiNg.

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