Thought I'd mention something neat I'll be doing the weekend of the 14th, in
case anyone is crazy enough for a road trip:
Imagine a gathering that has the basic outline structure of a con but all the
programing is about ecumenical mystical traditions...  Well, I'm going to one
in Schenectedy, NY.  There will be programming on: Norse runic magic, Norse
healing, Celtic magic and religion, Hindu magic and religion, ceremonial magic,
Jewish mysticism, Christian mysticism, New Games, sacred song/ dance, Greek
religion, palmistry, tarot, working with children, men's mysteries, women's 
magic, Native American traditions, etc.  There will be an Open Mike, a Norse
healing circle, at least one ritual in the swimming pool, guided journeying,
and drumming.  Ethericon runs from Friday evening through Monday afternoon. I
am happy to caravan with anyone who drives at a reasonable pace (not the speed
limit...), and will have space in my room.  Con costs $50. at the door and 
the hotel is $55. per night but filling fast.  We hope to stop in Toronto on
Thursday night and then drive like lunatics to get there Friday.  Let me know
if you want more information, phone numbers, etc.  Hey-- why don't we start
something like this around here?!  Cheers!  Bright blessings, Kami

53 responses total.

Sounds like fun.  I just hope you have the ability to filter lies when people
talk (or write) about Rune Magic.

this gathering has the lowest bullshit quotient i've seen anywhere! i was
really impressed.  otherwise i wouldn't bother to pass it on.  thanks for your
con cern.  yes, i've seen some pretty silly, homemade and baseless "rune
magic". i'm a terrible snob.  well, the lady who will be at ethericon and knows
about such things, jane sibley, is a. a hereditary norse spaewoman (gets it
from her mother. really.) b. a very rigorous researcher and effective healer/
magical (oops, what did i do to my computer now, whimper?) practitioner and c.
quite a fluent speaker/ reader of old norse.  she makes her own rune sticks,
usually out of ash wood.  the other person whose programming i try not to miss
is a celtic scholar who also does his own translation and is adamently (how do
you spell that?) not doing "if it's pagan it must be celtic". uh- oh, am i
ranting? sorry.  cheers! kami

        I'm not an English teacher in the sense of spelling.  When it comes
to grammar, I am a nightmare.

so, anyone want to come along to Ethericon?  Yes, it's a very long weekend on
short notice, but hey, live dangerously! :)

Sorry, I have to prepare for my Pagan New Year Feast.

I'll have to pass too, but I'd love to hear about it.
-phaedrus

        Well, I just lost a friend.  A friend who I used to consider a brother.
Since he is a Saxon, Odin's law says that I should kill him.

?????????
No habla confusing sentences!!??
Wha????
Esplain please.
-phaedrus

What is there *to* explain?

Vidar, for WHOM does the year begin in late Jan./ early Feb.?  I've seen
Samhain, Saturnalia in early Jan., Apr. 24th, and Beltain in various trads.

also to Vidar, why don't you tell us about it in non cryptic terms.  We are
friends, I think, this is clearly bothering you a lot- it doesn't sound quite
like your usual bloodthirsty rantings :), and some of us may have a helpful
perspective on the subject (or a relatively open-minded ear, at least).

My sect of Pagans whom you might consider calling the Vikings have their new
year day on April 1st.  I am just preparing, and getting it approved (which
it has been) by my parents.

Bloodthirsty rantings?  When, may I ask, was the last time I had one?  
Actually the information about what I should do to this person is 
incorrect.  Though I would like to believe that his insolence makes
him a nithngr, it does not.  In fact, I believe that Odin would not
be pleased in my slaying of this particular Saxon dog.  After all,
I did love him once.  Yes, I mean love.  Not sexual either, brotherly.

In what sense is your former friend/brother a Saxon?  That particular ethnic
division became obsolete a long time ago?  Or are you being metaphorical,
using Saxon as a catch-all derogatory because of the historical enmity
between Saxon and Norseman?  And what did he do that merits slaying?

He's British and he's Christian.  Is that good enough?
Nay, I am using the truest sense of the word I know. 
In the THING, I wol^H ^Hd probably not be allowed to kill him.
Howeveer, He has slain me emmotionally and I wish to avange my
murder.

child <g>, brocken hearts mend.  broken tempers mend. broken spirits can mend.
broken promises can be mended.  Great, gaping, jagged wounds to mind or body
usually do NOT mend without immediate, direct attention under clear light.
Festering sores left in dark and weepy or slimy environments usually spread
their rot throughout body and heart until they kill what's best in you. On the
other hand, sometimes when they are subjected to strong sunlight, bracing air,
unbiased opinions and time in the open, they dry up and heal seemingly on their
own. So, like, what'd this guy do to you, man? Talk straight.

Have you been emotionally murdered...?
If it doesn't kill you it makes you stronger!
It sounds like you been through more than one wounding Kami, and you seem to ha
have gotten wisdom from it. I hope I can say the same some day!
And what is the "THING", in which you wouldn't be allowed to kill.
I'm sure if you did Kill, then you'd know true anguish.
I'm with Kami, tell us what's up!
This could lead to some great discussions on ethics, and maybe help you and
me~! Peace and blessings, phaedrus

Since I got here first, I'll answer first.  Vidar, sorry if I'm stepping on 
your toes.  The Thing was the periodic gathering of Norse freeholders at which
laws and legal matters were decided, alliances cemented, rewards and taxes
attended to, etc.  In general, a town meeting.  The "voting members" of this
gathering held a great deal of social control, and part of their role was to
decide what the "eric" or honour price for a crime might be, whether a blood
feud was merited, etc.  

Phaedrus, to be quite honest, I don't remember.  As far as I know, I've always
talked like this.  Thanks, if it sounds useful.

Patricia,
perhaps this is past life stuff??
So, this town meeting was/is called the "thing", very weird. I wonder where
the current usage comes from?
And yes, what you're saying is quite useful, you're either a wounded romantic
or...a parent?
Peace,
phaedrus

OOps....The above was inteded to be to Kami NOT Patricia...Yow!
-phaedrus

I figured out who it was for.  The answer is, I believe, yes to all of the 
above.  Someday, maybe soon, I'd like to go looking for concrete answers to
the "past life stuff".  Until now I have avoided it, wanting to focus on the
immediate and not wanting to seem or become a "true believer" type.  Now I
find obstacles to my progress in life, such as reccurrent depression and a
strong inclination yo give up (I decided, finally, that suicide was stupid
no matter what, since I'd just have to go back and do it over. I suspect that
the weight of such failures is a good part of the trouble.) which seem to have
always been with me.
How can a romantic not be wounded in this world?
Yea, I'm a parent.  Does it show? :)

It's not a matter of what exactly he *did* to me.  It is more a matter of
what he *didn't* do for me.  I have always, until know hated the older of
his two little brothers (I know nothing about his sister except her name),
and I made it known to him.  His brother did not recieve ill-hatred, I
had aa reason, and a good one at that of which this person is well aware.
About mid-fall, I learned Norse Runes from Joe Gilsdorf.  I wrote daily
thoughts on the chalkboard in the Student Center.  One day one of these
happenend to be translated mentioning doing things to this person's
brother.  Larry Stewart called me into his office.  He discussed with
me bothe the E-mail hassle I had with EMU, and the runes.  Immediatly
when I got home, I wrote an apology and sent it to EMU.  I would 
have signed it in my blood to assure this person of my sincerity,
but my fingers are armoured with calluses.  Anyway, this entire perios
was about 4 months long.  Then I waited 1.5-2 months to get angry.
This was the first time I sent exactly what I thought over E-mail
to him.  His response was bad in grammar, but it was clear he did not
want to make-up.  The emmotional death I speak of, is the fact that
sue to his previous shattering of my heart, I really don't care.  Sure,
I shead a couple tears now and then, but it is anger I feel, not sorrow.

I believe that the "thing" wasn't were blood-feuds started.  They were
started because of one man killing another and *not* paying the
man-price or comming to an agreement with the plaintiff before
the next meeting of the thing.  The males were the only voting
members of the thing.

Sounds like you're carrying alot of anger around Vidar. 
I agree with Kami's observation that it'll eat you up.
Peace to you,
phaedrus

One thing to remember, anger is not emotional death.  apathy would seem
closer to emotional death to me.  Anger is passion, which means you can
still care.

Today's society makes a practice of reviling and hiding anger.  We are
taught that anger is always destructive, always the root of evil (whatever
that is), in short to be hidden or controlled (read squashed into socially
acceptable forms) at whatever personal cost.

I do not subscribe to this idea.  Anger can be a positive force, as long as
it is clean, by which I mean something complex.  Lt's see if I can clarify
this.  Anger in a just cause (and that'll vary from individual to
individual), anger that only seeks redress, not retribution, that is clean.
I'm not talking about wallowing in it, allowing it to control you so that
you act in a sadistic fury, but there are times (and who am I to judge
whether this is one) when it is right and healthy to be angry, and when to
suppress it would cause the sort of thing that Kami and Faedrus are talking
about.

There, now you've had my completely unqualified opinion too.

I do not care if you are not really a Psychiatrist.  Your information
is useful, whether you are qualifed or not.

I agree Chris. I'm just beginning to learn about anger. I really used to see it
as merely a destructive emotion, but denying it is just as bad as letting it
flow unchecked. It seems alot like other aspects of life that the mainstream
isn't teaching, like death...sex...etc. It's tough, my parents were no
roadmap!
I hope we in the Pagan community can correct this.
-phaedrus

Those who know me will tell you that "X is a double-edged thing" (substitute
for x any character trait you choose) is a common refrain with me.  It's no
different with anger.  Without anger, where is the force to bring about
necessary change?  Of course, without a sense of responsibility, what stands
between us and destruction?  The edge that cuts us free can make us bleed
too.

Golly, it must be late, I'm waxing metaphorical.  The surgeon General states
that a metaphorical Chris can be hazardous to your health.  

     Good fortune and good night.
     Chris

So Kami, how was Ethericon?

super! as always.  The ride out was a bitch; my windshield washers didn't work
so we drove through our own personal fog much of the way.  Interesting challen
ge.  I was proud of Michael: his driving has gotten MUCH better- really looks
beyond that first car in front.  He was wonderful all weekend, and made him
self useful at the one ritual we were both at.  (He's not pagan- so he says :))
Lets see, how to summarize a schedule of over 50 classes and nearly 20 rituals
over 3 1/2 days?! I went to something almost every period, sent my tape record
er, unsuccessfully, to many others, and had someone take notes for me at a
couple more.  Whew!  Highlights--
My best memory is from something that actually happened after the con had
officially ended.  We looked at the "driving" snow and decided we were'nt...,
so got to share in the traditional after con chinese dinner, etc.  Someone
had the news on to the Earthquake, and a person who had been teaching about the
Orisha tradition of the Yoruba peoples suggested we do a ritual to send healing
energy to the folks out there who might need it.  He got a green candle, a 
white candle, a blue bead, a cup of flowers, a rattle, and I brought down my
knife.  Green is the color of Ogun, who represents the earthquake, and the
water was for Yemaya the mother goddess who represents the sea, peace and heal
ing.  In that tradition, magic happens at the crossroad rather than in a circle
, so I drew a cross-road with my knife through the circle of people sitting
there.  Someone "smudged" everyone with the rattle.  The leader spoke for Ogun
(I think I'm remembering the right god- this is new to me), and another woman,
relatively new but not brand new to this tradition, was Yemaya.  She sang a
lovely song while we drew in all our friends elsewhere who might want to help, 
then gathered up energy to send.  Then marked each other with a wet flower
head.  People who had dear ones in the quake area kept a flower.  Then Jennifer
,the woman who was Yemaya, suggested we contact a friend of hers out there who
is a very strong magical person and give him some energy to use, so she called
his names while we helped her to create a sort of "holographic image" of him 
and used "toning" to give him the energy to be used.  I may be misremembering
the order of things- as a matter of fact, put this in the middle, before the
flowers.  Anyway, this was everything a circle should be: clear, simple, 
impressive, effective, focussed, with people who trust one another and are "all
there" for the work at hand.  Wow!  

One of my favorite teachers, Alexi Kondratiev, is a Celtic scholar.  He taught
a class about the use of fire and water as the prime elements in Celtic worship
This is NOT wiccan- the 4 elements were much later.  Although Michael pointed
out that with air above and earth (and the land spirits) below, they are all
there in a spherical (or egg shaped, since there are 2 foci) space. The geog
raphy is something like this: fire lives on the West, the direction of magic,
and the place of full light on the wheel is at the North (seems odd to me), 
water lives at the East, and full dark lives at the South.(hey, what's the
message that just showd up on my screen- his it ok?)  any way, when I get my
notes I'll be able to explain the apparent reversal of what seems more likely.

Alexi also taught a class on the forms of Celtic worship and one on the Ogham
as a system of divination, both of which I expect to get good use out of.  I'll
describe later.  Someone start a divination item, please?.  Anyway, I also
went to a class (review) on the Younger Futhark and Norse runesticks.  Now, 12
years after I first saw them used, I finally get the concept well enough to 
try making my own set.  Anyone want to work on it together?  Anyway, I took
that class so I'd have an easier time at the later one Jane Sibley, the Norse
scholar/spaewoman, taught on runic magic.  In it we learned how to consruct
a set of house wards and made a simple personal charm with bind- runes.  Much
of runic magic seems to involve levels of disguise and redundancy.  This will
require its own reply, if not its own item.  There were also about three
specifically story_telling related classes, a couple on Hindu religion, 5 on
Yoruba tradition, 2 or 3 on Xtian mysticism, 3 or 4 on Jewish mysticism and
the Kabala, a couple on being a gay pagan, one on stones for healing, one on
psychometry and other "psychic" exercizes, some purely silly stuff, a couple
of Native American items, and lots more.  The only rituals I got to this year,
partly because of my boys, were the one I described already, the opening on
Friday evening, and a neo-pagan Bridget ritual Sunday night.  That one has the
sort of pop psychology purpose that I get rather tired of in many public rites;
I think personal development and healing works better in smaller, tight knit
groups, but anyway, it works for some folks and Jennifer always comes up with
good chants.  Saturday night I had planned to go to an Orisha (Yoruba) ritual
about the magical transformation that happens in the forest and then to the
Norse healing circle that Jane does at every con.  Instead, Timothy got sick...
Turned out to be nothing serious, and Jane likes trying experimental mechanics.
It isn't possible to cut gates in or out of her circle, but I wanted to send
some energy to Sue (sjg), so she came over to the door and acted as "point",
reaching a hand to me outside as the "focus", to sort of extend a line out from
the circle while one of her apprentices led the gathering of energy.  Seemed to
work rather well, which was a bit of consolation for having to miss out.  I
haven't talked to Sue about it yet.  
Well, this has been a lot of screens.  Ask me questions.  Oh, about the mead
(yes, I know that's another item.  It's also bedtime), I expect I'll be going
to Toronto or a friend coming here in the next month or two.  We'll try again.
I find that Polish stuff way too sticky-sweet.
Be well, all.  Bright blessings.  Kami

I for one am eagerly awaiting your various items.

did you find it?

I dson't knowq if he did, but I did.

I didn't. Where is it? Is it more about the con Kami went to.
Kami, do you know the name of the woman that held the Yoruba ritual??
Was she a Santera? 
I thought somewhere in there you said you learned a new way of scrying...?
Sounds like a very cool gathering.
-phaedrus

phaedrus, have a look at item 22.  I forget what I called it- something abut
Ogham.  

There were three people teaching and leading stuff having to do with the
Orishas.  They were Charlie Butler, Theo Durst (on.line name Eldritch), and
Jennifer Moore.  I love Charlie's description of himself in the programming
book- "a Judeo-Christ-Wiccan with Santeria leanings."  Theo says he "has been
working for the past three years on a dry-meal path in the Orisha Tradition."
Jennifer is your basic neo-pagan who, I guess, has been broadening her horizons
in contact with the other two-- the african-based tradition is clearly a
side bar for her.  Charlie was the one running the ritual, Theo did a lot of
the teaching.  Jennifer took the part of Yemaya because a.) it fit her b.) it
was her idea c.) she could.  By the way, Charlie answered some question or 
other by saying that he defined sacrifice as meaning to give up something of
significance as a gift.  Therefore, killing things is not necessary and does
not fit unless you raised it yourself.  A piece of art or a good work can be
worth more.  The main purpose of killing a critter is often to feed both the
worshippers and the deity.  Dead chickens seem to be the image most often
popularly associated with Santeria.  Oh- and I suspect some of the names change
in the practice of Santeria, but I would need to check in my notes if I wrote
down anything about that geographic drift.
No I didn't learn a new way of skrying.  3 things about this--
1. I did see some very beautiful skrying mirrors that a stained glass merchant
had made.
2. I learned one old (but just now becomming comfortable) method of divination
and one new method of divination. and 
3. At one time I came up with a method of skrying "all on my own", but I still
have never really learned to do any skrying at all.  Wish I could want to help?

yipeee!

It sounds like a cool convention.
I have seen a different side of Santeria. The tradition I'm learning is more
common of the religion. But I have seen more and more lately that many
eclectica are integrating Santeria into thier worship. 
I don't mean to say that what I'm learning is any more valid, just more 
traditional. Sacrifice is done, and it's not just to make dinner for the
priests! Although, Cuban cuisine is great.
Thanks for sharing that, it sounds like alot of info was shared. You are
like a sponge! I don't think I would've remembered all that.
-phaedrus

1. I want to start a similar convention here.
2. How else is it different? What sparked your interest in this tradition? I
didn't mean to imply that sacrifice was just for dinner, I understand that the
gods share in the feasting and that there may be special parts set aside for
them, but there's less point in killing something nonedible if they are to 
share in the affairs of humanity.
3. I haven
(oops) I haven't had that much cuban food, despite growing up in south florida,
but I LOVE spanish cooking.  I just found my saffron, and the vial had broken,
dammit, I wonder if I can get all the glass out.  Probably not worth the risk.
Where can I get more? (sniffle)
4.I didn't remember all of it- I take copious notes.  As it happens, I seem
to go to the classes of the two or three best lecturers- lucky I am that their
subjects are in my areas of interest.  Or is it that their competence has 
influenced my interests?...  Want more?  You seem to have a pretty solid 
background, too, Phaedrus.  Maybe "belief" and "study" are not incompatible, 
eh?   well, time to do something useful.  Maybe I'll work some more on trans
cribing the lecture notes.  Or maybe I'll start now on the programming for and
about kids that I want to propose for next year.  Seem to be a number of people
with a similar interest just now.

I think a convention here would be great, and successful.
How is what I am learning different? Oi vey! It'd be tough to even describe.
Traditional Santeria is homogenous. It might recognise other religions, but
it doesn't, or maybe they, the priests/priestesses don't "mix" it with other
practices. It is becoming more common to see people mix it, but it ussually
not Santeros/Santeras. I'm just begining on my path, so I don't know most
of the answers to alot of questions! I think the difference is something 
that I've experienced, and is tough to express.
I got involved by going to a Santero, now my Padrino, and getting a cowrie
shell reading. It was very personal, and moving. My wife and many of my
friends had already begun on the path, so I wanted to check it out.
Well...it blew my mind, I went through a ritual reading, called getting
your head read, and that was it!! Alot has happened since then, much of it
impossible to express in words. The Orisha have been good to me!
In fact...this weekend, I'll be recieving the Warriors, the next step on 
my path.
Keep, sending the description of the con!
Peace,
-phaedrus

Phaedrus, can you tell me a bit more about Santeria? I had understood it to
use saints as the forms and names for the Orishas, and in general to be 
syncratistic with Catholicism.  Is this not true?  How does you experience with
this path compare with other pagan paths?  What is the difference in stance or
attitude? (I have some notions here, but too little information to be sure of
them.) Hey, where is everyone? 
Hey, how about an item for reviews/summaries of rituals people attend or read?
I'd love to see how other groups' language, style, mythology, etc. differ and
where we are all similar.
How about an item for folks to post bits of ritual, "spells", sacred poetry,
etc. that they create or discover? 
The astrology item isn't doing anything, what other methods of divination,
meditation, or contact with the sacred do people use?

I can only speak about what I've learned, and most of it, I really don't talk
too much about. It's tough to speak about if you're not a believer. As far
as the connection with Catholisism, in the tradition I'm learning, I've seen
little to no real usage. The Saints are given repect to because without them
the religion maybe wouldn't have survived. There are no Christian practices
that I've taken part in, or that I know of. But then...I'm not a priest/ess.
How does it compare with other Pagan paths...it has to me become my religion.
It's more tangible to me. It's day to day. And, it's reverence and sacrifice,
not just blood!, is something that we as Pagans could really learn from.
It really is very little like Euro-Pagan paths. And it's not for everyone.
But I know it's for me!!
As to the difference in attitudes and stance...? Explain.
Please realize, that I'm not a priest, just an Alejo, believer, so take what I
say with a couple pounds of salt!
I think the ritual area sounds great.
-phaedrus

you know, I really hate the secrecy trip.  I understand it, but it gets in the
way of free exchange of knowledge, mutual understanding, and increasing trust.
Oh well, sometimes it is really important and appropriate.  Define "believer";
do you mean someone who has chosen this path, someone who honours it, someone
who accepts its validity, someone who aknowledges its existence? These are all
types of "belief".
The question about Catholic inclusions came from two sources.  The older and
weaker source was some periferal images of santeros using a lot of blessed
candles, and the prevalence in Latin communities.  More to the point was what
someone said in a lecture about regional variations in the religions that came
from the Yoruba tradition, describing how some of the Orishas might change 
their names and faces but keep the same character and relationships.  In some
cases, the change was from a male deity to a "female" saint. I was interested
in what degree of change or preservation was found in your tradition.
"...tangible...day to day...reverence and sacrifice..." can be common to any
and all strongly followed paths, although the degree of "sacrifice" varies from
person to person.  What I was refering to is the way in which the gods are
approached; some neo-pagans come from a judeo-christian background and tend to
approach their gods as supplicants.  I hope no one is offended by this parody,
but it looks like this;" Excuse me, please, gods, but if you can manage it, I
need your help because you have power and I have none."  Others call the gods
of various cultures for the sake of their attributes, but may do nothing to
attune themselves to the language, forms, etc. of those gods.  From what I have
seen, in the Norse tradition there is a sense of "rightness"; the help of the
needed power and local land spirits is expected by (stated) virtue of the 
caller's relationship to the god(ess), correct use of the runes, and the job
of the land spirits to protect and help when offered respect. There is no doubt
because the magic resides (at least partly) in correct use of the formulas that
were given to be used.  Irish tradition seems more oblique but no less confide
nt: the gods are approached more indirectly- in the third person, describing
the help you want as something already happening, using artful language. In 
this case the worshipper is offering the god something he/she likes: fine 
language, participation in human affairs, an increase in honour, favorite food
or activities.  The one asking for help makes him/herself as much like the
god as possible, to show that they are already strong/suitable/worthy and just
need the divine spark the god can offer.  My sense with the Orisha is that 
they like their stories to be told at least in some small way, their roles
enacted by their worshippers, and perhaps to participate in human affairs by
acting through the one who calls them.  I would like to know if that is at all
accurate or how different, and how you see your relationship with the Orishas
singularly or as a collective body.  That's all.  Oops, another ramble. Sigh.

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss