something that i hardly ever see discussed is the apparent dichotomy
between solitary pagans and those in covens or other groups. i've met
several pagans who try to tell me that i *need* to be in a coven, or that
i can't possibly be happy being a solitary practitioner and should
consider joining a group, or that being a solitary practitioner is just
plain wrong.

   i find nothing wrong with being a solitary practitioner. i completely
fail to understand why some people feel so threatened by it. my methods
work well for me, as the methods of other solitaries i know work well for
them. 

   so, for those of you who are in groups, what's wrong with being
solitary? and for those of you who are solitaries (unless i'm the only one
here ;), what's wrong with being in groups?

   

42 responses total.

I'm in a group, and see nothing wrong with being a solitary.
Next question?  >8)

But seriously, for most of my time as a pagan, I've been a solitary.
I can assure you from experience that being in a bad group is much
worse than being in no group at all.  I consider myself very fortunate
to have found a group that I'm comfortable working with, people who
don't think magic is "visualize happy fluffy glowing bunnies and
eeeeeeevwything will be better" (I've been to more than a few rituals
like that, ick yuck ptui ptui), but aren't too anal-retentive for
me to deal with.

It almost goes without saying that you'll be dealing with a LOT more
energy in a group than as a solitaire, which can be useful.  *If* the
group is one you feel comfortable with, and is doing stuff you want to
do.  If you're not happy with it, then all the energy in the world
really isn't going to do anything for you.  Besides which, if you're
primarily doing ritual work for yourself, then one person's energy
should be enough for just about anything.  (IMHO)

If nothing else, void, I do sympathize with you for one non-magical
reason: that sounds like exactly the same "why aren't you married"
bullshit that I have to put up with on a regular basis.  And I know
how sick of that I feel.  >8)

I, as well, am a Soliatary Practitioner though I have noe problem with groups.
My main problem is where the only sizeable coven of my fellow people is in
Iceland.

so move to rejkjavik =}
i've been in two groups and on the fringes of a few others... boht groups got
too large for my tastes, and the energy got too disparate.  i'm still in one
of those groups as an administrator only; the magick has gotten so far from
where i'm comfortable with, and the group is too large for me to feel like
i can make any contribution anymore.

OTOH, i can't do the solitary thing, i just don't have the discipline or
self-confidence yet, and i doubt i ever will with the way i tend to approach
groups and teachers... 

which means, either way, i'm in a religious crisis right now ={ i think i'd
prefer to work solitary (or with my sweethearts... the three of us have done
one ritual together so far, and it went fiarly well all things considered).
*shrug*

*passingly wishes Grex had an anon feature, because he neeeded to say the
above, but he fears he's going to alienate a reader or two of this
conference...*

Ennh, don't worry about me, brighn.  I already knew your feelings,
and understand them, even if I personally feel differently about
the group you're referring to.

Hum... I can't say I really know. On my own, any kinda of anything I do is
in my head. Forget words, forget candles, forget all that. Just sub-vocalized.
I suppose I have no experience with a group I'm actually part of. I mean, the
only group that ever would have excepted me on my terms practically worships
cthulu,
and even if they are my good friend, I'm sure they'll outgrow it.

Re #3: I am actually seriously planning on it later in life.  Not now,
however.

One of the wisest priestesses I know has pointed out that "we are all
solitaries"-- even if most of your work is with a group, you've got to be
doing a certain amount of private meditation and ritual in order to keep
centered and growing, and strengthen your own relationship with the gods
you look to.  Now, for me, I tend to get lazy.  On my own, as Jenna said,
I'm not much inclined to formal structures; I'll have a sense that the night
is calling, look around for anything that wants to go with me, walk in the
direction that feels right, pick up or leave what seems called for, say or
do anything which fits the pattern (sing, dance, hum, create a poem, whatever-
only the night is listening...), and come home when it feels "done".  Or
even less formal.  But there are so many times when I ignore that call, when
I come up with pointless excuses to avoid doing what, really, is something
which gives great joy.  So I've been disciplining myself to do two simple
rituals before bed; lighting a candle for Brigid and taking out the compost
as a way of talking to the "fairies at the bottom of the garden".  Now, the
other side of all this is that I'm pretty gregarious.  I *like* having a
group, a family, a community, and tend to build them when I can.  As Rob
pointed out, there's more energy that way.  Also more support.  And it's
harder to blow off doing rituals.  And the rituals can be more varied with
more people's input.  Sometimes groups can be limiting, if they have to
meet the needs of everyone or run on concensus or by Priestess' decree, or
whatever.  At times, having the brakes put on is a good thing- saves paranoia
and grandiosity.  At other times, the group all gets caught up in mass
hysteria and "witch wars" and self destructs.  That sucks.  A strong group
sees it coming and works together, and one person alone *can* get into a
seige mentality with no one to yank them back from it.  For me, one of the
most important functions of a group, though, is teaching.  That requires
there to be someone whom everyone respects, or an agreement to seek outside
the group for qualified instruction.  I've run into too many solitaries, and
even groups lately, whose main source of information was "two books put
out by Llewellyn"--ok, that's a slight exaggeration, but the point is that
the notion of coven structure implies hiving off from some established group,
with the founder(s) having been trained and initiated by that tradition and
given continuing guidance.  That means that people are less likely to decide
that eating green cheese is the ideal form of lunar ritual or that they have
the *only* papal dispensation to practice magic, or whatever, and if they
really get their knickers in a twist, someone can holler up the line for a
reality check.  And no, it's not perfect...  But the result is less "religion
as role playing", less "leader?  we don't need no stinkin' leaders?", less
"chinese resterant religion", and waaay less sense of isolation.  Yeah, I'm
a bit biased. and a *lot* "East Coast".  Oh well.

Re 5 - I wonder about the folks whose interest in the occult stems
from reading Lovecraft...  "I hate myself, and I figure summoning
Elder Gods would be the fastest, most painful way to commit suicide."  >8)

Re 5 and 7 - I s'pose it must be my background as a Qabalist, but I've
never been one for free-form magic.  Admittedly, what I do now would seem
pretty wussy to a real ceremonial magician - "What, you're not vibrating
all the divine names? And that candle is the wrong shade of blue, it needs
to be dark blue, remember this is the Yetzriah scale you're working in...
What do you mean you can't afford 32 different shades of blue candles?
Aren't you serious about this?"  But I've always preferred having a
structure of some sort for any ritual or spellwork I do.  I've been to
too many badly-planned rituals where any energy that was raised was
immediately lost while folks tried to figure out what to do next, and
my early days of learning this stuff were much the same.  Then again,
I'm a computer programmer, we thrive on structure.

I'm not one for maghic either, and regarding Kami...
then is what we do by ourselves any different than what any one else does?
Before I ever cared about any of this, i still had urges to go walk with this
or that.
Is it really religion, or just nature? Sometimes I wonder and I dont bother
to think. I don't think it's something odd, just something labeled differently
by many people.
Personally, I don't cast spells, not rhe way some of my more vocal
acquantiancs
would. I guess when I need something and I want something soimportantly,
(I am having a real hard time keeping these lines togethr ;})
ok. I guess what I meanto say, is I've never really believed in magic
as a manipulable thing by simple cermony. In fact, thsoe things always make
me shiver. The way I've always thought about it, the only time your desires
or needs ever changed the course of the world was when your mind and heart
were ust screaming out loud and echoing off the walls of your skull. Those
are usually the times people are in too much anguish, too much trouble,
to consciously do anything. I suppose I mostly feel that way about holidays
too.
I enjoy celebrating, but it's all pyuscholiogical. I know when srping really
comes.
iot realy comes the day I notice the trees budding and go outside to pick up
brown pine cones because that's what I've done sicne I was 4. (of my own
volation)
i know when other people's "energies" are up because of the night because
I look out and I see an irresistable night that makes me want to walk.
It's always been smore like being in orbit than being a spaceship.
(sorry for the lnegth)

I'm not much for spellworking either.  I mean, occasionally it is called for,
or someone else needs it.  But the purpose of a "spell" is to focus one's
intent, to fine it down and make it very clear and specific, so that the
energy fed into it does exactly what is desired.  That's why the *shade* of
blue, in Rob's example, matters; is it water of water or water of air, is it
about knowledge/information or knowledge/intuition, etc.

Is it nature or religion?  It's a religion of nature.  It's not separating
them out, but finding the gods within us, which is more easily done in
nature, and about finding the gods in the balance of nature.

And magic is manipulable by much simpler things than any ceremony--when you
focus your intent on finding the right parking spot in Ann Arbor, that's a
minor act of magic (yes, I'm joking.  Yes, it's true.).  A lot of what I
do is "listening" to the universe so that I follow the impulse which will
lead me into the store where I need to meet someone of find something, that
sort of applied serendipity.  It's a different style than formal ceremonialism,
but both work and both have their uses.  And I see ceremonialism as more
technical than mystical, although there is certainly a mystical underpinning
to all of these forms and practices. 

Don't know the power of "psychology".  What happens in our heads has an echo
in the physical world, sometimes subtle sometimes overt.  (er, that was 
"Don't *knock*". Sigh) it doesn't have to happen in anguish, but that sure
does release a lot of energy.  And the subconsious mind, that does most of
the magic and ritual, is pretty childlike.  It likes drama and ritual and
concretized symbols.

I don't necessarily think that our ritual *causes* the sun to return ort he
crops to grow, but it can't hurt <g>, and it helps us to stay in tune with
that cycle, not half a step behind it.  Your personal rituals for Spring are
wonderful, and your empirical recognition of those signs is very important to
being in tune with it, not just going through the motions.  But as you ask
*why* Imbolc is about the first sparks of warming light, why Equinox celebrates
the Spring, you begin to notice more and more subtle signs and prepare for
them, so that you can ride and use the wave of spring's inexorable changing,
rather than being overrun by it and watching in helpless awe.  That's fun too.

   hmmm. lotsa stuff in here i want to answer, but i'm not going to sort it
all out by response number. ;)

   i developed my own methods (or tradition, or whatever you want to call it)
via lots of reading, lots of patient weeding out of llewelyn-sponsored
gibberish, and instruction from a couple other solitaries i met. what i
practice is mostly a mix of taoist, celtic, and native american practices with
some other bits here and there.

   there are about a dozen or so other solitaries i know in the ann arbor-ypsi
area, and when one of us wants/needs more than one person involved in a ritual
or wants advice on how to achieve a particular goal, we're pretty comfortable
calling on each other. it could be said that we're a loose collective of
solitaries, but even that implies more structure than is really there.

   all the groups i was ever involved in fell prey to ego battles or an
insistence on adopting some kind of pagan dogma. if i wanted hierarchy and
to-the-letter ceremony, i'd rejoin the roman catholic church. ritual is
certainly important, but there's a lot of satisfaction in (to use kami's
example) focusing intent on finding a parking place and listening to the
universe.

   there's more i wanted to say, but fourteen hours in a cab last night seems
to have fried my brain somewhat. i can't remember what it was. 

I hope you made a significant amount of money, for 14 hours in a cab.
You're right about many groups having their ego battles.  Some overcome them,
some break up over them, some institutionalize them.  Sigh.  And dogma is
a danger, since most of us were raised with one (arfma, arfma <g>).  Neither
pitfall necessarily *has* to be the destiny of a group, but it sure takes 
time, work and "mindfulness" to avoid them.

I like your "loose collective" notion.  Sounds delightfully useful and
satisfying, and like it pretty much meets most of the group-neediness you
might ever have.  If it ain't broke... And you've already figured out how
to read your bullshit-ometer.  Not everyone, especially not every solitary,
ever does.

Taoist/Celtic, hmmmm amusing... <g>

I've gotta go out with you for a few hours some slow night, so we can hang
out and chat.

Oh, I never said aything about holiday ritauls...
i quite like them. they're in celebration fo what IS happening as opposed to
what we want to happen. And my religion at least is a religion of nature.
But some things, well say, muscle contractins, I couldn't really
claim them to be unique to my religion, seeing as many other people have
tem all the time (all other people) without calling ti religious, though it
is amazing. I believe in a sixth sense through which anothermode
of communication like speach or writing ccan be tranferred.
I don't believe that a person who's cherry and happy can come up to me
one morning, put their hand on my forhead and GIVE me some of their excess
energy
and IF they try, I will get mad. You can cheer me up, maybe. You can
give me some caffine, maybe, you can make me get up and do something maybe,
but you
can't tranfer your alterness to me.
   I also don't believe that a spell you cast can do anything but communicate
your need/desire to
another person/god(ess)<es>. Whether a sick person chooses to listen to
you telling them to get better and try harder, is thier buisness. You can't
mess with their body, you can't chage physcial things
(a conversation with valerie solidified my opinion on this)

Jenna, that was a very complex resonse, worthy of a number of different
discussions.  Let's see:
1. holiday rituals and what they're for
2. psi communication
3. healing
        a. does it work?  how does it work?
        b. is it right to offer energy, etc. without express permission?

Does that about cover it?  I mean, I'd love to engage in all of those
discussions, separately and at length.  I bet a lot of us here have had
a variety of experiences and opinions on each of those topics.  OK?

For this point in my life, I am a solitary, because I think, for now, it is
right for me.  (This is not to mention a certian amount ofgeographic
isolation; since coming to vandy, I've met one person who is pagan and one
atheist... the rest are atleast vaugely christian.)  There are somethings
I need to work out in my personal ways of dealing with god/esses before I try
to function as a member of a group.  Someday, it may be (for lack of a better
word) right for me to work in a group; I'll tell you when I get there.

Think I will just wade on in here. <G> Hi gang. Some of you know me and some
of you don't and someof you don't even care! heehee
I have circled with three different groups as a memeber and several large
gathering type gropus. The first group was only guided meditation and I didn't
get alot from it.  The secoind is the coven I still ocnsider my family and
my home. Kami knows Lady Lhianna from that coven.  I am working on my third
degree with Lhianna opresently. sigh....hard to do that one from a distance,
eh, Kami!
The second one was one of the ones Brighn was referring to. Now as to it
getting too large...that must have happened after I left.  Circle of the Rose
was nice for a while, but then it seemed that we got to disparate in our wants
and needs.  Being that it was begun by four solitaries, there were some things
about it wthat were very different from what I was use to.  But, it gave me
the feeling of a magickal family that I like and prefer.  I am a prairie dog
and not a fox. <GG>
Oh....I messed up. Circle of the Rose was the third one. Now I circle with
Keman and sometims a few others.  I am looking at someone as a student. we
shall see.  She asked me a week ago and I am still not done with my lookie
see. 
too long as usualy and full of too fast typing! sorry.

Not too long.  What is your hesitation about the prospective student- is it
in you or in her, do you think?
Wish I knew Lhianna better.
3rd long distance?  Without a permanent working partner? (other than Keman-
she's not quite where you are yet, now, is she?)  Tough one.  Best of luck.
Take your time.

Faile, you've got a good perspective; getting to know your own relationship
with the gods first.  Not everyone can do it that way.  It certainly has 
merit.  And people will give you shit, but hey!--you know who it's worth
listening to; Themselves.

First Student, then 3rd l/d then working partner.
Ok....didn't want to lose track! :->
Student: She is married to a rabid Christian who thinks she is devil
worshipping.  I am simply not sure that I am prepared to deal with the
husband.  And the Tarot reading I did last night came up with the Knight of
Rods crossing her. I don't need to be hit over the head on that one!
3rd long distance....Have to be there for some of the actual training.
Working Partner is not a concept in our Trad.  That is very
Gardnerian/Alexandrian in my opinion and we are definitely not either! hahaha

I can see where you wouldn't want trouble with the student's husband.  My
sense is that you can give her pointers and bits of instruction, suggestions
for books and even time to hang out with your own book  shelves over tea,
without taking her on as a formal student- that sort of responsibility you
don't need.  More, I suspect that she's going to end up losing the husband
or leaving the magical exploration, since they are not reconcileable.  If 
you become her excuse for leaving, you become the replacement.  Bad idea. If
he knows or thinks you are the reason she leaves, especially if he should
have *any* notion of your sexuality, you'd be in serious danger.  And if she
decides to go back to him, you become a major target for "leading her astray".
She has a right to find her way to the gods, and you can help her to that,
encourage her to trust herself, etc. without biting off more than you need.

Gee, if you're in Ohio for the on-site part of your 3rd degree work, think you
can make some time to come over this way? ;)  Does Lhianna have e-mail? It
might be that she can set you up for some of the meditation/ritual work over
the phone or by e-mail, at least to lay the foundation for what will need
to be done there.

I don't think I should get into the issue of whether one needs a partner to
do 3rd degree work, and whether that's a Gardnerian-oid thing, I'm likely
to rant without sufficient base.  If it's not oath-bound or whatever, I'd
love to hear your tradition's steps to each degree, what is required for (or
what constitutes) a 3rd Degree, and why you *don't* need a partner at that
point.  Just broadening my range of knowledge.
Hugs.

I hate to drift here, but it is back to the original topic after all.

I myself, having recently begun exploring paganism seriously (not as 'oh, that
looks neat, I'll try it'), have run into a similar dillema with an added
twist.  I am faced, not just with the problem of whether to join a group or
not, but how to join a group.
The reason is this.  Most pagans I have talked with, while they belive in
wildly different things, share a certain core of beliefs and of rituals.  (At
least, this is the impression I have gotten).  Unfortunately, I do not.  My
personal beliefs, while I consider them to be 'pagan', are quite different
even from this core that I percive, and are also not linked to some
esxtablished set of beliefs.  i.e., I do not practice celtic, native american,
norse, african, whatever beliefs in some combination, but rather something
completely personal.  For this reason, I do not think I would fit in with any
existing coven/circle/group/whatever.
However, I do feel a need for some form of ritual, or *something*.  In other
words, it isn't enough just to belive in something, I need to do something
about it.  But, being as what I belive does not stem from an existing belief,
there are no personal or solitary rituals I can adopt, nor are there groups
I can join.  So, what do I do?  Am I just misunderstanding things?  Or what?

Seems to me you've got about 3 choices here; keep looking and see if there
>*is* anyone who's doing more-or-less what fits for you, learn the shared
>language you're talking about and figure that it'll do for a translation-
>language--that it's closer than what you started with, or learn enough about
>the mechanics and theory of ritual construction that you can craft forms
>that *do* work for you from scratch--then share them with the rest of us.  One
>other possiblility; you may not have run into well enough educated or
>articulate enough pagan-folks to get any sense of the underlying mysteries
behind the rituals you've seen, or the cosmology, etc. behind the beliefs
you've heard discussed. 

        Also, to form your own rituals, with an element gleaned from here and
one from there is fine, too. The daily rituals are those that hold the most
meaning for me. They are mainly Native American, with some wiccan stuff and
a sprinkling of just what feals right to me as a person. As we work with our
self and develope our own "magick" we begin to understand the emerging
patterns in our belief system. It is then that we can begin to find others
to aide us in this transpersonal journey.
        You can read about many different rituals in books. Certain things will
speak to you and soon enough you will have your own rituals. Intent is the
most important and as long as the intent is good and clear, you will begin
to see the results in your daily life. One of the beautiful things about the
pagan perspective is that no one is right and no one is wrong...there is no
right way and no wrong way. What works for me is right and what works for you
is right....do what you will and harm none....so just go for it...look at what
is already there and build upon it....take what you like from each group, and
leave the rest for someone else...you will find that which has meaning for
you.
        Peace, Love and Light, 
                Johnny

Eeek!  <bjorn runs from the evil number 3 in abstract terror!>

kami--shared language?  ritual construction?  huh?

        It's always a bitch coming up with an independent or cooperative
religion or philosophy.  It's a lot of work, and it's either work done in
vain (as others are unable or unwilling to work with it) or work vulnerable
to the winds of change (as the one or two who do can move away or choose to
follow a different path).

        I like to work with strong independent minds when I'm thinking.
They don't have to agree, but they have to be able to respect my thoughts,
and have enough self-assurance to respect their own.  Those qualities alone
allow me to refine my own thoughts and to keep a good check on my less-than-
good ones.

        It helps keep me in fifty-fifty mode, where I spend half the time
examining the premises and thinking and feeling things through, and half
the time actually working with the realities.  Helps to avoid Zeno's
paradox.

Oh bother, Dan, which parts of that didn't make sense to you?
You mentioned feeling a need for some sort of ritual.  The habitual pattern
you follow upon waking or before bed is "some sort of ritual".  To be more
effective and mindful than that, you need to know what you want to accomplish
and why, and have some idea of what sort of ritual actions would be helpful.
That's part of what is meant by the theory behind ritual construction. Example:
recently, the Grove was talking about adding regular "worship circles" (o
r something like that- I forget what name we give it.  I liked "The Thursday
Thing"...) and when we went to create a simple, workable ritual, we discoverred
that the structure is not all that dissimilar from a church service.  I was
very surprised to discover that, since I'm not all that familiar with
Christian tradition.  But it had all the same elements- even a teaching 
portion which might correspond to a sermon.  So if you know that structure
and *why* each element is where it is, you can use it as an initial framework
for any public or formal ritual.  Other structures could work for other
purposes, as long as you know why they are what they are.  I think I'm
rambling now, sorry.

Jazz, what is Zeno's Paradox?

Zeno's Paradox states that when you travel between point A and point B,
you must first reach the halfway point between A and B.  Call it point C.
Then you must first reach the halfway point between C and B.  Call it D.
Then you must first reach the halfway point between D and B.  And so on.
Since you must always spend your time reaching those halfway points,
you can never actually get to point B, so all travel is illusory.

My refutation of this would be to shoot an arrow at Zeno's head.
If he's right, hey, no problem.  If he's wrong, problem solved.  >8)

Zeno's Paradox, among other things, is the foundation of calculus, Rob.
What Zeno didn't take into account (or maybe he did) was that as the distance
decreases, so does the time to travel it.
As the halfway points get smaller and smaller, the time differential reduces.
In short, if movement is illusory, so is time.

Thanks, Rob.  I learned that paradox first in 5th or 6th grade, then in
high school pre-calculus.  It's a really neat image and probably has some
useful magical/meditational applications.  But I still don't know who this
Zeno guy is <g>.  What else did he do?

If he did anything besides come up with that, I don't know
what it is.

Re 28 - Don't tempt me, brighn, the thought of retroactively
eliminating all of those calculus classes from my life...  >8)

When I went to a weekend retreat with a group of wiccans (my wife is wiccan
and I primarily follow native spirituality), I had catholic flashbacks. The
ritual did contain many elements of the Catholic Mass, or more appropriately,
the Catholic Mass contains much that has been obsorbed from pagan traditions.
The round host (the body and blood of 

{{{{{{{{{sometimes tels really ruffle my feathers!}}}}}}}}}}}

and salsa!) are held over the wine goblet in much the same way that the wine
goblet is held under the Mother Moon (Full Moon). I noticed many other things
that have pagan roots. The lowest level of the Vatican excavation revealed
a pagan shrine!

Hokshila, for a significant amount of time, the Church did manage to 
co-exist pretty reasonably with native traditions, and in absorbing them,
I suspect they were only part of a long line of cultural "marriages".  Pity
they didn't keep that approach.  But I think you are seeing two things at
once: it's true that a lot of pagan folk were once Christian, so those forms
seem faliliar and "right" to them, but also, I think there are just so many
commonly accessible forms a ritual can take, so any ritual which takes a form
similar to what you've seen elsewhere will look familar in the same way that
any human being will look sort of familiar- familiarly formed.  I sort of
wish that more Christians could recognize the common roots we share, and 
enjoy it.  I get a giggle, which would freak out many christians, out of the
idea that their central sacrament, the eucharist that you mentioned, is a
sort of symbolic cannibalism while ours is sacred sex (the chalice and the
blade ritual).  Although that symbolism is lost if the chalice is charged
*only* by holding it up to the moon- that's like attracting like, not 
opposites combining.  
I'd love to see details on that vatican excavation.

Probably in some ways the modern Wiccan rituals resemble the
Catholc church. From what I know, Wicca wasn't widely practiced for a long
long time,
and though its true that once probably a lot of Wiccans were converted
and some of their religion was stolen/ incorporated into Catholicism,
a lot of the modern religion has been "reconstructed" either from
evidence or imagination, and if ex-Catholics or some of the closer
branches of Christianity were the ones thinking it up, its no doubt that they
would take what they liked or thought was important from their old religion.

        Zeno's paradox isn't really a paradox, but rather a bad model which
doesn't sound like a bad model.  If achilles really did stop and then let the
tortoise advance for n seconds, then ran until he caught up, while the
tortoise was stationary, adn then the tortoise advanced for n seconds, then
the model would work.

re: #33 
Jenna: Wicca is not an ancient religion.  It was created (or recreated) by
Gerald Gardner in the 40's.  Pagansim is what you are spekaking of, I
think[D[D[D
So....the reason that Wicca is Christian like...which I don't think it is,
BTW, is probably bexuase of the connections to Masonic traditions. from
Gardner. Gackj!  I hate typing faster than the board can keep up wiht!

Re #35: There is a flaw in your logic which I feel it is my duty to point out.
From my understanding, you seem to think of Paganism as a single, unified,
religion which it is not.  Paganism, in truth, is simply belief in deities
other than the Judeo-Christian-Islamic God, and therfore encompases several
religions.

Wicca isn't Christian-like.
Properly speaking, most religions have the same sorts of distributions among
followers, and since Wicca and Christianity are both religions, they have
those same distributions. Religions also almost by definition have certain
forms, concepts, dichotomies, etc.  Wicca and Christianity are similar to each
other in the way that religions are similar to each other in the main. =}
  
To elaborate on the "sorts of distributions", I generally find three sorts
of people in both Christianity and Wicca:  people who are so filled with the
love of the Deity that they bow and scrape and wander around filled with
unrealistic amounts of wonder and awe ( "whitesy-lightsy" Pagans, "Born Again"
Christians, to use somewhat applicable labels), people who are so filled with
hatred and/or fear of the "dark side" that they run around fighting demons,
and people who don't seem to get caught up in the mythology at all and prefer
to use the paths as standards of living. I should say that Wiccans also seem
to have people who DO know a good deal about the my7thology and don't get
caught up in being overly loving or overly fearful; fewer Christians seem to,
say, accept Jesus and talk about Him on a regular basis and yet kept things
from getting too much one way or the other. But now I'm babbling, so I'll shut
up. =}

Hum... Arwyn, I think you missed the fact that I was basically saying
exxactly what you then corrected me to say (though, I'll admit, I don't
remember exatly how I phrased it and you might weell have had no clue
I was saying that) and Brighn... don't sudeenly sudenly change your opinion
on me

O.k., Jenna.  Christianity stole everything from Wicca, then Wicca stole it
back. =}

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