So, anyone a Tiger fan here?  I realize they suck.. actually, they don't suck
that much.. but I like 'em anyway!

Considering their phenomally bad month of April, they've been doing relatively
well over the last month and a half.  

Hmm.. I can't get my browser to work.  I'll continue this discussion tomorrow.

77 responses total.

Okay.. now I can speak with more accuracy...

The Tigers were 6-17 in April.  They are now 23-34, which means they are a
respectable 17-17 since May 1.  They're playing .500 ball

Of course, if they want to get to 0.500 they have to play a little better than
.500 ball.  Specifically, to get to .500 by the end of the season they have
to play .553 ball (ie, win 58 and lose 47).  Personally I think they can do
it.  Sooner or later their hitters are gonna catch up to their own career
averages (collectively).

Pitching, amazingly enough, isn't a real problem.

Their team ERA of 5.02 puts them 7th out of 14 in the league - smack dab in
the middle.  Their current starting pitchers have an combined ERA of 4.39,
which is pretty good in this day and age.  The biggest problem is Hideo Nomo,
it seems.  While he's 5th in the league in Strikeouts (73), he's also allowed
45 walks.  Compare that to Brian Moehler, who is turning out to be one of the
best control pitchers in the leagues - he's allowed only 5 walks in 50
innings.  Of course, most of Nomo's bad statistcs come from a 3 game stretch
of putrescense back in May.  He's not really so bad.  In fact if it weren't
for those three games, I read somewhere that his ERA would only be 2.80

I dunno about you, but I'm staying on board for this ride.  It's, at the very
least, interesting, if not exciting :)

I looks as though the Tigers are going to play a lot more competitively 
than it appeared in April.  I will 'em well, hope that they can claw 
their way back to .500.  But the awful start really hurt 'em.

Sure did.  BTW, all three games were sellouts this weekend I heard.  They lost
today, 7-3.  It was an ugly start to the game (just after I'm touting how
decent the starting pitchers are!).  Of course, it was Dave Mlicki, the worst
(and most expensive) of our 5 starters.  He allowed 9 hits and 7 runs in 1-1/3
innings.  Believe it or not, Tiger relievers went the remaining 7-2/3 and
allowed only a couple more hits and no walks.  Pat Hentgen had a no-hitter
going into the 7th but then the Tigers eeked out 4 hits and 3 runs.  They
threated in the 8th and 9th but didn't manage to score anymore.

Overall, I'd say the game was a positive, given the fact that the relievers
could've let it get really embarassing, but managed to actually look
impressive once Mlicki was out of the game.

 Heretic.

I was at the game on Saturday, technically anyway.  I was in the 
stadium, but I was with my 4 year old, and there is a carousel and a 
ferris wheel in the park.  <grumble>  Still, no one in their right mind 
expects a 4 year old to sit still and enjoy a baseball game.

Moehler pitched a very good game.  The Tigers won 10-1, hitting 3 home 
runs.

It was an interesting trip in some ways.  I parked on a side street 4 
blocks from the park.  A guy walked up to me and asked for $5.  "I live 
in the apartment building there."  "I'll make sure nothing happens to 
your car."  Heh.  Nothing happened to my car.  It is pretty amazing to 
get free parking 20 minutes before the start of the game when there are 
39,000 people in the park.

The carousel doesn't have horses, it has tigers.  It costs $2, and I 
had to pay, too, to stand next to my son.  We stood in line for maybe 15 
minutes.  There aren't even TVs you can see; you are totally cut off 
from the game.  This was not well planned.  The boy liked the ride, 
anyway.

The ferris wheel seats are shaped like baseballs.  We didn't ride on the 
ferris wheel, but maybe next time.

Comerica Park is a nice ball park.  The seats are not cramped.  There 
are enough bathrooms and concession stands you don't stand in line for 
the whole game, even when it's busy.  It doesn't have the character of 
Tiger Stadium, but there are no obstructed view seats, and there are 
lots of amenities.  Give it a look.  I'll be back there next weekend, 
this time with either my 9 year old or my wife, so I expect to enjoy 
more of the game.

Whence the Tigers:
They've done some things right recently.  They evicted CJ Nitkowski from 
the starting rotation, which needed to be done.  They now have no 
right-handed starters, and also they now have no scrubs.  Hideo Nomo is 
not a great pitcher, but he's not bad for a middle of the rotation 
starter, either.  Jeff Weaver is pitching very well; as well as he did 
at the start of last year.  Brian Moehler has always been a competitive 
pitcher, and should continue to be that.  Dave Mlicki was a very good 
addition last year.  He's pitched badly at times, but he's pitched well 
most of the time.  Willie Blair will do until someone good comes along. 
The bullpen was expected to be good, and it is; Doug Brocail is the best 
pitcher on the staff.  Todd Jones has been magnificent so far.  It won't 
continue, but he's been magnificent so far.  Matt Anderson is learning 
how to pitch, which should mean he'll contribute this year.  I sure miss 
Francisco Cordero (traded to Texas for Juan Gonzalez.)  I don't miss 
Justin Thompson (also traded, but on the DL all year).  I'll miss him 
next year.

They can expect some improvement in the offense.  Tony Clark is 
returning to the lineup soon.  He's not as bad as he's looked through 
this year; he's pretty good, actually.  Damion Easley is back from the 
DL, and he's pretty good, too.  Juan Encarcion has been hitting well.  

What's wrong:  Juan Gonzalez.  He is not comfortable in Comerica Park.  
He can't take walks.  (15 walks -- with a .274 batting average, he has a 
.327 on-base percentage; an embarrassment.)  The Tigers will probably 
trade him by the All-Star break.  They will have traded Justin Thompson 
(one of the best young left-handed pitchers around), Francisco Cordero 
(a future good closer), and Gabe Kapler (the best young center field 
prospect in Detroit since Ron Leflore) for Danny Patterson (average 
middle reliever) and whatever they can get for Gonzalez.  

What else is wrong: They have got to take more walks.  Beside Gonzalez, 
the best hitter on the team has been Juan Encarcion (BA .294, OB .342 -- 
11 walks, 187 at bats).  One player has an OBA above .400 -- Rich 
Becker, the backup center fielder.  The team OBA is .325, the worst in 
the AL.  The team has a .257 BA, which is the 2nd worst in baseball, but 
worse than that, they've taken 191 walks.  3.5 walks per game.

And: Encarcion's defense in the outfield has been unprofessional.  He's 
run into other outfielders, he's failed to back them up, he drops 
baseballs... he has all the speed in the world, but doesn't keep his 
head in the game.  He shouldn't be starting.  Start Rich Becker.  Start 
Wendell Magee, for gosh sakes, but not Encarcion!

I think the Tigers will finish with about 70 wins for this season.  
They'd have to win 47 of their remaining 104 games to get there, which 
is a realistic expectation for them.  Then next year maybe they can get 
rid of their general muddlehead, Randy Smith, and start building a 
winning team.

I think they're hoping that by playing Encarnacion every day he'll get better.
That doesn't really seem to be happening.  He may be relegated to a pinch
hitting role later or get thrown in with a trade.

The Yankees are thinking seriously about trading for either Sammy Sosa 
or Juan Gonzalez.  It's good news, of course, that they want Gonzalez.  
It's just plain bad luck for the Tigers that Sosa is available right now 
due to his discontent with Don Baylor, the Cubs manager.

I heard speculation that Detroit could ask for Drew Henson and Andy 
Pettitte for Gonzalez.  Wouldn't that be something?  (Answer: It would 
be wonderful.  Pettitte is a terrific young left-handed pitcher.

Other trade speculation has Gonzalez heading for Boston -- which has a 
lot of hot prospects in the minors -- or to the Mets.  If the Yankees 
get Sammy Sosa, it would be natural for the Mets to add a big name star, 
too, in order to try to compete for fans in New York.

Also: The Tigers traded Karim Garcia to Baltimore for "future 
considerations".  Last year he was called "the Latino Bambino" in spring 
training by hopeful manager Larry Parrish.

Tony Clark returned from the DL, and went 0-3 in yesterday's game.  The 
Tigers lost 4-2.

Karim was still hitting well at AAA.  I guess he's a defensive liability
though, or just not impressive enough to be a 4th outfielder.  Certainly, he's
not what the Tigers needed.

I'd like to see the Tigers get Henson and Pettitte.  But Henson is such a big
question mark.  I mean, if he turns out to be a great quarterback, maybe he
won't place baseball when he's done?

I expect the Tigers will win tonight.

Of course, I made that prediction when they were already ahead 6-0.  They won
16-3 tonight.  Bobby Higginson was 4-4 with 2 homers and 7 RBI's.  Dean Palmer
and Juan Gonzalez also hit homers.  Ausmus was also 4-4, while Damion Easley
was 3-4.  

They managed 21 hits.  The winning pitcher was Willie Blair who pitched really
well.  Todd Jones "closed" the game out.  Heh.  I bet he doesn't come into
the game often with a 13 run lead.

The Tigers got 5 runs in two separate innings.  They got their lead *5* 
men on base in 3 innings.  It would be wonderful to see them get this 
kind of hitting more often, obviously.  Rick, Brad Ausmus dinged one as 
well.  He was 4-5 according to the box score on fastball.com.

I watched this game on FSD, and heard the musical sound of a 
knowledgeable baseball man (Kirk Gibson) discussing why it is that 
on-base average is so important; why it isn't just hitting that wins 
games.  Kirk Gibson is an irritant to listen to.  Every sentence he says 
ends on a rising pitch, reminiscent of him telling a child, "Is that 
really what you want to do?"  However, he is unquestionably 
knowledgeable about baseball.  He brings to FSD what Al Kaline has 
brought to broadcast games over the last 25 years.  Setting aside his 
voice, he's quite an improvement over Jim Northrup on the old PASS 
network.  Northrup constantly congratulated himself on his career -- 
which was a very good career, but it ended a long time ago.

Note of interest from last night's game: Toronto catcher Albert Castillo 
spotted a young bird on the field that had fallen from somewhere.  He 
caught it with his catcher's mitt, then picked it up in his hand and 
took it to a fan in the stands.  The Tigers sent a young woman with a 
basket, who took it somewhere, then a bird expert came to the stadium 
and will care for it until it can be released.  Albert Castillo is a 
rough-looking catcher.  It was amusing to see him so tenderly rescue 
this bird.

I think it's quite unlikely that the Tigers would get any "name" players from
the Yankess - such as Pettitte - in return for Gonzalez.  Probably some
prospects and maybe a utility person is all.  But the better money is on Juan
Gone going to Boston.

The Tigers have two possibilities if they can trade Juan -- they can get 
"name" players with high salary and low production, or they can get 
prospects.  They'd obviously rather get prospects, as this team is not 
going anywhere this season, and has no wish to spend money at this time. 

The Yankees have had a strong farm system in recent years and have 
traded away a lot of young guys for big names (Clemens, Knoblauch, etc.) 
but might not want to continue making those kinds of trades.  
Nevertheless, they're one of the few teams which traditionally doesn't 
mind signing really big names for really big dollars, and so their name 
belongs in the discussion of who might trade for Gonzalez.

Boston will likely not view Gonzalez as a long-term player, but might be 
willing to rent him for a half-year for their pennant chase.  Juan 
Gonzalez, looking at the Green Monster -- the thought must be appealing 
in Boston.  But will they trade good prospects for him?  They might.  If 
New York gets Sammy Sosa, Boston is going to want to improve their team 
hitting, too, to keep up with the Yankees.

And the Yanks are supposedly desperate for someone with a big bat to plug into
left field.

Bring on Cleveland...

Another good outing for Brian Moehler tonight, who only allowed 5 hits, 2
runs, and one walk in 6 innings in the Tigers 5-2 win over Cleveland.  Tigers
hit 4 home runs... 3 solo shots (Palmer, Gonzalez, Higginson), and a 2-run
dinger by Clark.

Although I'd hate to see it happen, there were a lot of trade rumors involving
Higgy early this year, and he couldn't be traded because he was slumping so
bad.  Well Higgy is back on track and teams might become interested again.

Tigers came from behind today to beat Cleveland 8-6.  They were down 4-0 after
a Cleveland grand slam.  They were down 6-3 after the next inning, but managed
2 in the 7th, 1 in the 8th, and 2 in the 9th.  Homers for Magee, Higginson,
and Gonzalez (the game winner).  Higgy is HOT!  He was 2-4 tonight with 2 RBI
and 3 runs scored.  He's got his batting average up to .280

Some encouraging signs, offensively, for the Tigers.  Higgy's 2-run homer came
with 2 out.  I was disappointed that, after they tied the game 6-6 in the
bottom of the 8th with just 1 out, and runners at 2nd & 3rd, they didn't take
the lead right there.  But Juan Gone sent the customers home happy.

I was at the Saturday game, 8-6.  Very exciting game!

There are as many Cleveland fans at these games as there are Tiger fans, 
so it was very nice to be able to feel superior as we walked out.  They 
might have been winning division championships for the last 7 years, but 
they're still the Indians; one has to remember that.

Cleveland reversed the story today and scored 8 unanswered runs in the 6th,
7th, and 8th innings to win today's game 9-4.  Someone got a Hold for giving
up 4 runs in 2/3 innings.

Maybe I understand this 'hold'.  It was for Matt Anderson.  He went in 
with a 3-1 lead, and left the game with a lead.  Danny Patterson, who 
came over in The Trade with Juan Gonzalez, came in and gave up 
Anderson's men on base, and therefore blew the save.  Ultimately he blew 
the game (though Anderson pitched ineffectively to set him up with the 
chance to lose).

Phil Garner was upset the Tigers blew this game, but I'm not.  It was 
the 6th blown save this year, which is least in baseball.  Cleveland is 
still a good-hitting team, even without Manny Ramirez.  The Tigers won 2 
of 3, which is pretty good.  3-3 would be better, but I'll take 2-3.

The Tigers are only 1 game in back of Minnesota, which is in 4th place 
in the Central division.  It would be nice to have them be out of last, 
paltry of a goal as that is for a professional sports team.

I wouldn't call giving up the tying and go-ahead runs *in the 7th inning* a
"blown save".  A blown save should be reserved for a 9th-inning failure.  
And there's no need to go into the various definitions of "save" - I know that
one case involves "pitching effectively for 3 innings".

I agree that a 6th inning appearance is not likely to wind up as a save, 
but statistically, Patterson was in the game to hold the lead, and 
holding the lead for the rest of the game is called a save.  

Sometimes baseball statistics can be screwy, but there is an underlying 
logic.  Rick and I have occasionally discussed what constitutes a "hold" 
during the course of this season.  Maybe a pattern is emerging?

I told you not to get me started:
> holding the lead for the rest of the game is called a save
That statement/definition by itself is not strictly/necessarily true.

   Are we to be subjected to a running commentary on the Tigers lame attempts
at winning baseball games all summer? If so, I'm outta here. ;)

   Life sure does suck when there is no HOCKEY to talk about.

Be thankful there is at least one item to keep this stagnant conference 
going...

I don't recall seeing any discussion of hockey in here for months.  Of 
course, I forget all the hockey items anyway.  Hockey is only a sport 
when it's winter, and even then it's a boring sport.  Maybe you should 
start a hockey conference, Jim.  This one is for sports.  That means 
baseball, particularly in the summer.

Kevin: A 'save' in general is:
1) The pitcher comes in and pitches effectively for the final 3 innings 
of the game, preserving a lead; the scorekeeper determines what is meant 
by "pitching effectively"
2) The pitcher comes in for less than 3 innings, when the number of 
batters to be faced, plus the runners on base, plus the number of runs 
previously scored by the opposing team, totals more than the runs scored 
by your own team.
Examples of save situations: 
Your team leads by 3 runs or less in the 9th inning.  There are no outs.
Your team leads by 6 runs or less in the 8th inning.  There are no outs.
Your team leads by 9 runs or less in the 7th inning.  There are no outs.
Your team leads by 1 run in the 9th inning.  There are 2 outs or less.
Your team leads by 2 runs in the 9th inning.  There are 1 or 0 outs.
Your team leads by 6 runs or less in the 9th inning.  There are no outs, 
and the bases are loaded.  (3 men on base + 3 outs needed)

Does this help at all?

Don't worry, this conference will die again when John and I are gone :)  

Tiger bats came alive last night!  They won the game 18-6, on the virtue of
8 home runs, the most homers ever given up in a single game by Toronto.

Damion Easley was 0-3 but took 3 walks in the leadoff spot (yay!).  Bobby
Higgonson (AL Player of the Week last week) continues his tear and went 3-4
with 3 runs scored and 3 RBI's.  Juan Gonzalez only got one hit but it was
a 3 run dinger.  Tony Clark went 2-4 with 2 walks, 3 runs scored and 4 RBI's
(2 Home runs).

Overall, the Tigers managed 18 runs on 18 hits and 9 walks!

Jeff Weaver pitched tolerably but gave up 5 runs in the 7th inning which kinda
blew his game.

The 8 homers were not only the most Toronto has given up, they're the 
2nd most anyone has ever given up.  Toronto got 10 from Baltimore on May 
18, 1995.

Brad Ausmus calls the high scoring of this year "arena baseball".  Heh.

The homers were by 7 different guys.  I'm pretty sure that's a record 
for one team.  In order, the homers were hit by: Juan Gonzalez (1st 
inning), Juan Encarcion (1st), Bobby Higginson (2nd), Deivi Cruz (3rd ), 
Tony Clark (4th), Tony Clark (8th), Robert Fick (9th), Rich Becker 
(9th).

Cruz hit his on the first pitch thrown in a major league game by Matt 
Dewitt.  The poor guy came in with his team down 10-1, and must have 
just wanted to throw a strike; he probably (very reasonably) expected 
Cruz to hit into a double play.

The Tigers have been given a list of players the Yankees are willing to 
trade for Juan Gonzalez, according to the Detroit Free Press.  The word 
I've heard is that, if the Tigers are willing to toss in Hideo Nomo, the 
Yankees might well be willing to include Drew Henson, the best double-A 
3rd base prospect in baseball.  They might be willing to consider 
trading Alfonso Soriano, one of the best 2B/SS prospects in baseball.  

Don't get too excited; the GM *is* Randy Smith, who might opt for Chuck 
Knoblauch because he's a "proven hitter" and could provide "clubhouse 
leadership".  (And if he does, I'll stop watching baseball while he 
remains as GM.)

Terrible news.  Terrible!

The Tigers and Yankees apparently agreed to terms for a trade; Juan 
Gonzalez to New York; AA 3B prospect Drew Henson, major league OF Ricky 
Ledee and AA LHP Randy Keisler to Detroit.  Juan had the capability of 
blocking the trade because his contract allows him to block a trade to 
the NY Yankees or Mets, or 8 other teams.  Also, the Yankees had to be 
able to sign him to a deal extending past this year.

Juan blocked the trade and will remain a Tiger, probably through the end 
of the year.  Worse than that, the Tigers are now saying they're 
enthusiastic about their chances of signing him for a long contract 
themselves.

Rats!!!

Well, a better deal for the Tigers would have been Juan Gonzalez and 
Hideo Nomo for Henson and Alfonso Soriano, who's a weak-fielding but 
strong-hitting SS.  (Remember Travis Fryman?)

At this point, I can only hope Gonzalez leaves Detroit at the end of the 
year and that it costs Randy Smith his job.  It would be a bad thing if 
we were stuck with them both for a few more years.

Where did you see that Gonzalez officially blocked the trade?

On the front page of ESPN.com currently:

======================================
Juan still not gone, but may be going

Perhaps the Yankees will get
Juan Gonzalez after all. Early
reports indicated Gonzalez
would veto a trade from the
Tigers to the Yankees, but a
source close to Gonzalez told
ESPN's Peter Gammons the
two-time MVP is "very much
open to the trade."
======================================

According to recent reports on USA Today, Juan has agreed to go to New York,
but only WITHOUT a contract extension (Juan signing a contract extension with
New York is the final part of the deal).

I think this basically nixes the deal.  I can't see the Yankees giving up
those three players in order to rent Gonzalez for 3 months.  They might try
to restructure the offer, but then it might not be worth it for the Tigers,
who could potentially get more for him from a team that he'd be willing to
go to.

I hope I'm wrong.  I want to see this deal happen.  I'd love to see Drew
Henson become a Tiger (because personally, I believe that Henson will choose
baseball, even if he's one of the top quarterbacks in college football the
next two years).

Tigers won tonight's game 7-6.  It was a thriller.  I turned it on in the 7th
with the Tigers leading 7-4.. they gave up 2 runs in the 8th making it a one
run game - just what Todd "The Rollercoaster" likes.  Jones of course pitched
the 9th, and got one out, but then walked a guy on 4 straight pitches then
gave up a single to put 2 men on with only one out still.  He managed to
strike out the next two batters, sealing the win and yet another save.
Tony Clark hit his 9th home run of the year.  Clark must be doing better, his
average is up to .218 (hey, that's better compared to his previous .175
batting average!).

If Juan Gone performs as he did in Texas, I wouldn't object to him 
being a Tiger long term.  I just have doubts that he really wants to be 
here.  As for him being traded to the Yankees for Drew Henson, Henson's 
dad warns the Tigers that Henson becoming an NFL quarterback is still a 
distinct possibility.

When one wants to find out the real word about a Detroit Tigers trade, 
one does not go to ESPN, or USA Today, or even the Detroit Free Press or 
Detroit News.  One goes to the Ann Arbor News, and one finds out what 
Danny Knobler of the Booth News Service has to say.  Yesterday, Knobler 
was the first one in print who wrote that Gonzalez was going to nix the 
trade.

I don't know how he does it; whether he has great sources or just is a 
very good guesser, but over the past 3 years, I've seen Knobler be right 
-- and first -- about just about every Tiger trade situation around.

Today, Gonzalez's agents are quoted in the paper, saying Gonzalez hasn't 
really vetoed the deal; that he's open to it.  Maybe that's true, but 
I'll stick with Knobler until I read something concrete that contradicts 
what he said.

It was an unimpressive day for Tiger pitching yesterday.  They gave up 8 runs
in each game.  The lost the first game 8-1 while the Tiger bats remained
quiet.  They fell behind 7-0 early in the second game, but I'll give them some
credit... they had been scored upon 15 times and only scored once, but they
didn't give up.

Tigers won the nightcap 14-8, thanks in large part to THREE two-run homers
by Bobby Higginson.

The Tigers dropped the game today, 2-1.  Juan Gonzalez didn't play, but 
it was because he injured his ankle in the 2nd game on Saturday, not 
because he was traded.  Darnit.

Jeff Weaver and Matt Anderson pitched pretty well, from the box score; 
Weaver left after 5 1/3 innings, then Anderson came in and finished up, 
giving up runs in the 7th and 8th innings.  Another loss in a 
low-scoring game.  They play at Cleveland again on Monday for the 
tie-breaker in the 5 game series.

Well, maybe you just don't know.

All the papers today, and radio stations too, are saying the Gonzalez deal
is not dead.  The Commissioner's Office has extended the 72 hour deadline 
for the Yankees to get Gonzalez to commit to the trade, and the Yankees
are apparently offering him big money.  The deal is not dead at all.

There's a lot of talk that being traded to the Tigers might push Drew
Henson more toward a football career.  Maybe so, but I'm with Rick; I
think Drew is a better baseball prospect than a football prospect.  He'd
have a longer career and make more money as a baseball player, and he'd
have more fun doing it.  Athletes who can play multiple sports say they
like baseball the best.  Drew Henson can play baseball, and will likely
stick with it.

I think it's very possible that Juan Gonzalez will show up at Comerica Park
sometime on Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday wearing a Yankee uniform.

Drew Henson's father warned the Tigers that there is a very distinct
possibility that he'll play football after he graduates and not baseball. 
Who knows maybe he'll play both.  Maybe he's the next Kirk Gibson - a football
star in college who played baseball afterwards (as a star)

My take on the whole deal - The Tigers don't need Juan Gonzalez.  They've got
lots of power in the lineup.  They'd be better off spending lots of money on
pitching.  So if he goes, and Henson sticks to football in the long run, I
don't really think it's that bad a deal.  Maybe the AA pitcher they're getting
in the deal is a bonafide prospect ... the John SMoltz of this deal.

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss