Big moment here for the Rangers a week ago at the Garden, when two players
slammed hard into the glass and smashed a glass partition.  The players
were alright but Wayne Gretzky's wife, actress Janet Jones, was carried
off the ice on a stretcher out cold.  The glass fell on her as she was
sitting in the VIP box.

Anyway, it didnt phase Wayne.  He stayed on the ice to skate his last
shift.  A couple of nights later, he had two assists, giving him 1,851
assists, or one more assist than Gordie Howe had *points* in a career that
lasted twice as long.  Gretzky now has more *assists* than any other
player has or had points (goals and assists) in a career.  Boggles the
mind when you think about it.   As of that game, Gretzky has 2,717 points,
867 more than Gordie.  A hundred points is a hell of a season.  You have
that season for 27 years in a row and you still wouldnt have as many as
the Great One already has.

 He already owns every signficant offensive record there is, by far, for
individual games, seasons, and for career in terms of points, goals and
assists.  Records that will never be broken because noone will ever play
that well for that long.  And Gretzky just signed a two-year extension to
his current contract, meaning he'll be on the ice for at least two more
seasons after this one.  More than enough time at his current scoring pace
to get over 1,000 goals and 2,000 assists.

He is the greatest hockey player of all time.  They ought to rename the
the Hart trophy (for MVP), the Gretzky trophy after he retires.  You wont
see anyone like him playing again.  

16 responses total.

 Listen, bud... Gordie is still the Man in these parts. 

  Just because you own every record doesn't make you great. I think it has
a lot to do with class, and in that respect, Gordie is still by far, superior
to Wayne. You'll excuse me, I grew up watching Gordie play.

But Gretzky is the epitome of class.  He plays hurt, he never holds out.
When the Rangers wanted to pay Mark Messier more money a couple of years
back, he said "great, he deserves it"

Gordie made a sideshow of the sport by insisting on coming back, pushing
the age of seventy, to skate one forty second shift so he could satisfy
his vanity and say he skated in seven decades.  It was ridiculous for
Gordie to be on the ice at his age.  He clearly cared more for himself
andhis vanity than the dignity of the game.

Suppose Joe Dimaggio signed up with some minor leage team at his age and
said he wanted to take one at-bat, just for the sake of ahistorical
footnote!  

The Great One would never do anything like that.  

  Howe wasn't the only one to do that. I recall there were some baseball
players who did that as well. No biggie.

  Like I said before, I know a lot more about Gordie since he played his
entire career with Detroit, and I grew up watching those games. I guess you
could say it's a matter of personal choice, and different generations. I just
don't identify as much with Gretsky as I do with Howe. Boil it all down, and
you're talking apples and oranges.

  I used to (and for the most part) follow basketball in the early 70's and
some of my favorites were Wilt, John Havilcek, Dave Bing and Bob Lanier. I
still consider Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Wilt to be the best 2 players that ever
came along, but this generation has Michael Jordan, and doesn't know what I
know about John, Kareem, Wilt, Dave and Bob.
  I still like watching basketball but I am not as rabid about it as I once
was. I guess it's all the commercialism, the drugs, million dollar contracts,
and everything else that takes away from the game that once was.

There's no particular need to get into who was the greatest hockey player of
all time AFAIC.  Howe & Gretsky played in different eras under different
conditions.  Perhaps Gretsky is the better skater.  But Gretsky never fights,
never had to still up for himself - A) He had goons to do that for him, and
B) There has been an unwritten rule that you can't mix it up with Gretsky.
Howe didn't get any such prima donna treatment.  Gretsky owns all the records,
set in an expanded league with expanded schedules and playoffs.  Is that his
fault?  No!  Just appreciate each player for being perhaps the greatest of
his respecitive era, and let it go at that.

It's a little bit of a copout to say that you can't compare players from
different eras. Albaugh is right about the differences in the league netweeen
the eras, though. You can't use those records to compare the players. That's
true.

I think Gordy was the greatest player that the Red Wings ever had. I agree
with Richard that Gretzky is the greatest of all time, though. I'd probably
rank Bobby Orr as the second best. Certainly the best defenseman. Too bad his
career got cut short. Best goalie? Ken Dryden (IMO) although he would have
to play second fiddle to Vladimir Tretyak if he had been a generation younger
and thus been able to play in the NHL.

Best coach? I'll let you guys think about that one.

 Steve, you're forgetting people like Rocket Richard, Guy LaFleur, Ted
Lindsay, Sid Abel, and Terry Sawchuck. How about Ciccerelli when he played
with Isles, and when they just about owned the Cup? 

  I don't know about coaches, though with 1000+ wins, Scotty Bowman is clearly
one of the best.

oh cmon. who would fight with Gretzky...he's too small!

And checking the records shows Wayne Gretzky a five time winner
of the Lady Byng trophy (given for player with the best sporstmanship
and conduct...its one of the NHL's oldest trophies and one Gordie
never won in 32 years.  I dont think Gordie was well liked outside
of Detroit)

Size has nothing to do with fighting.  Terrible Ted Lindsay is a small man
by most standards, but he was tough & nasty on the ice.  Dino and Gerry
Gallant weren't big guys either, but they mixed it up frequently.  I'm not
saying that fighting makes a player great, or that a player can't be great
unless he's a fighter.  But a player's skills are a lot easier to display when
no one is allowed to rough him up.  I didn't see Mario Lemieux, Steve Yzerman,
Brendan Shanahan, etc. asking for any special treatment.

Those are all great players you named, omni. I just think Bobby Orr was a
greater one (except for Gretzky). I watched the Rocket when I was a youngster.
I know what he did. I stand by my statement.

Fighting doesn't impress me much. 

I can't believe you can talk about Ciccarelli in the same breath as those
other players. You gotta like him, because he always demonstrates such effort,
but he is making up for limited skills. He does a good job of it, but never
was nor will be one of the great hockey players.

 He was the backbone of the Isles when they were winning cups like breathing
air. Ok, so he's basically dogshit now, but back in those days, he was worth
watching.
 I'm a little too young to comment on the Rocket. I only know of his exploits
from what I've read.

I won't argue with either Gretzky or Howe as the best player.  I would like
to comment that Goalies are players too.  Of course, no goalie has more than
10 goals, or more than (guessing) 100 carreer assists.  But, some teams,
without a goalie would be toast, regularly losing about 21-0 (read San Jose
Sharks)
My top 3 are (in no particular order)
Martin Brodeur
Mike Vernon
Tretiak (that russian dude)

lets not forget the great Mark Messier...even if he IS playing for
Vancouver this year.  Basketball had Jordan and Pippen, hockey had
Gretzky and Messier.  HOckey's greatest tandem ever.

Thank Gods they sent him back to the country he came from! (Really,
Messier is my favourite player)

You cannot list the great goalies of the game and leave off Ken Dryden.
I agree with Tretyak, though. He definitely belongs.

I saw an article somewhere that Tretyak did russian squat dancing in 
full equipment just to build leg strength.

Statistics wise, there's no questioning Gretzky is the dominant player. 
 He's done more in a shorter time.  My pet text, the ultimate book of 
sports lists, declares him to be the best player ever.  It has a whole 
list dedicated to his records.  It was published in 1991.  And it is not 
about statistics.  The statistics of Gretsky's are the only statistics 
in the entire book.  Almost everything else is anecdotes.  Howe was 
great, but the way Gretzky dominated the league is only matched by a 
tongue-wagging basketball player.

Response not possible - You must register and login before posting.

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss