The Baseball strike is all of 11 minutes old. Personally, I don't care
about baseball, because the magic is gone, and I see the game (if you can
call it that) a bunch of greedy players trying to get all they can 
from the even greedier owners. 
  
 your feelings?

38 responses total.

I pretty much agree, Jim. Baseball? - phooey!
The only quibble is that I think the players are greedier than the owners.
Football season is almost upon us.

What the players don't realize is that the fans have had enough of their
greed. With football here now, and hockey and basketball not too far
down the road, baseball is not going to get much sympathy during the
course of the strike, however long it may last. I have a feeling that
the demise of professional baseball is all too possible in the near
future.

        Do you care if the top players are making 6 million dollars per year?
It doesn't bother me at all.  I don't much like the strike, but it isn't
going to interfere with my love of the game of baseball.
        When I look at what a young man has to go through in order to make it
to a professional baseball team, I'm glad the rewards are exhorbitant if
he makes it.  There are plenty of guys, most all of them, really, playing
minor league baseball and making less than I am, with a career that might
last 10-15 years assuming he's good enough to stay in the game that long,
and doesn't get injured and end his career early.  No retirement plan, no
training for another career when his term as an athlete finally ends,
unless he finds a part-time job or seasonal employment or continues his
education.
        The "average" major league player makes about $1 million per year,
but then, the "average" professional baseball player never makes it to
that level.  The "average" human being never gets a chance to play pro
baseball at all.  The gifts of the "average" major league baseball player
are almost incomprehensible.  You ever try to pitch?  I can just about get
the ball over the plate at about 50 mph 20 times in a hundred, never mind
it's altitude.  Any major league pitcher can throw 80 mph (and many can
throw 90 mph or even harder!), while picking the part of the plate he
wants to throw at, and the height above the plate, or throw a curve ball
that breaks several inches, still hitting at about the part of the plate
he wants.
        You ever see a decent curve ball, or a 90 mph pitch?  I've seen both;
the curve ball was from a guy who was good at tennis, but couldn't have
made the high school varsity team of the small school I went to.  I
thought it was going to hit me in the head.  It dropped over the plate.
I've seen Eric Plunk, a not wonderful major league player, warming up; a
brand new baseball *buzzed* so that it was audible at 40 feet to me in a
crowd.  That must have been about 80 mph.  That ball was a weapon.  Guys
stand there 20 times and swing at balls like that, and they hit them,
too.  They hit them hard enough they go 300, 400, 500 feet.  You can't do
that, I can't do that, I've never *met* anyone who can do that, probably.
These guys are supermen.  The best are supermen who train *all* the time,
and like it.
        Baseball players aren't overpaid.  They're entertainers, who bring in
a lot of money to their employers and their cities.  600 guys average $1
million per year (at least this year), and the whole nation watches, and
pays, and loves it.  $2.50 each for these wonder men.  (Only it's us rabid
addicts who pay most of it, voluntarily, each and every buck.)  Baseball
is the greatest game in the world -- or it wouldn't be worth paying for.
Lesser games, such as hockey and basketball and football, earn their
players lesser amounts of money.

(that has got to be one of the best statements of love and adoration
I've read in a LONG time. Thanks!)

        It bugs me when people moan about how much baseball players make.
"It's just a game."  Yeah, it's a game to a fan, but it's their whole
life.  That's how you get so good people pay to watch you play a game; you
start with enormous talent, then you work at it all the time, then if
you're very, very lucky, you can make a living at it.  A few guys get
rich.  What's wrong with that?

        The world today revolves arond money and that is killing sports. 

?/

I'm not in any way angry at the players. I understand that a great deal of them
still play for the love of the game. I'm simply upset that the owners and
players' representatives can't cease their seemingly endless bickering and let
these guys play the game. Hey, I love baseball. To me, Alan  Trammell is a god.
But all I was saying before is that if there's no  baseball to be watched,
there's always football or hockey.

If i made that much, you wouldn't hear me comlpain!

 to revive a dead/dying item---


   It is official. No mo baseball for the rest of '94. I can't say that
I'm going to miss it, because I don't watch baseball, but the underlying
question is: Will the strike ever be settled, and when it is, will there
anyone whocares? 

  Now that I understand a salary cap, I believe that the owners are
wrong. Football is a good example. Players who have little skill, will
get the the least, or risk being cut so that a big name like Fielder
can get his 5 million per y

 I don't think there is an easy answer.

Robert Lipsyte has an interesting piece on the Front of Thursday's NY Times

On Baseball

In Memoriam

The national pastime, which was buried yesterday, died a long time ago.
Baseball, which survived, will live forever. And somewhere in between the
myth of the Pastime and the glory of the game was the annual major league
season, which seems to have collapsed of exhaustion toward the end of a 
century-long search for its soul.

Of the three, the major league season will be the easiest to forget, and 
eventually to resurrect in some other form. It had become an increasingly
sour male soap opera, and may just need a year or two of detoxification.
It has to purge itself of the rage between the owners, who regard business
as competitive sport, and the players, who regard competitive sport as a
business.

Baseball the game will be fine. Baseball has less to do than one might think
with the major league season. Baseball is about the family farm, which few of 
us grew up on, and it is about railroad trains keening in the night on the
prairiesm which few of us ever heard. It is about the daydreaming of
drinking the same beer with yopur dad as he drank with his dad, of screaming
at your son's Little League coach in the same obnoxious way your father
screamed at your coach.

[it goes on after that for quite a ways, but my fingers are tired]

No wait! I'm interested to hear the rest of that. Don't leave me hanging!

Oops, sorry. I recycled that paper already.
It's on the Front Page of the NY Times for Thursday 15 Sept., so I
would recommend you check for it at your public library.
There's also more stuff on Baseball in the sports section that day.

OK, I'll give it a try. Thanks!

   Seriously.... Right now, most people could care less if they ever start 
playing again.  I know I'm sick and tired of listening to owners AND players
whining about salaries, profits, benefits..etc... Here's the bottom line..
They are playing a game.. I play college baseball, and will most likely never
get a chance to play pro.  But I would be willing to pay for a chance. Some 
of these guys making 56 million dollars need to think about this..

        Your chances may be better than you think, Edward.  I see no signs
the strike is going to be settled.  The owners have said they'll go to the
minor leagues for replacement players.  Most of the top prospects have no
need to play strike breaker; they're going to make it anyway, and when
they do, a strong union is in their best interests.  So, the marginal
players will get their chance.  Maybe it'll get down to you!
        I'm your general rabid baseball fan, but I'm not going to pay to
watch marginal players play.  I enjoy pro baseball because I like watching
the best athletes in the world play the hardest game there is.  I never
watch minor league baseball games, and won't watch even if they're played
in major league ballparks.  
        I'm one of the guys the teams really shouldn't like to snub; I'll go 
to watch 8-10 games no matter whether the local team is doing well or not.  
I just like the game.  Will I like it if neither the owners or players 
like it?  I'm not at all sure I'll follow the season this year, even if
the strike gets settled by the first of the year.  I'm not sure I would if
it had been settled earlier.  Call off the World Series?  Boy, that ticked
me.

A friend of ours who is an AL umpire has been living on
his wife's income and their savings.  He was expecting his
next check some time in the spring, but instead he got his
lay-off notice recently.  No one expects the season to start
now.  Incredible.

If I "could" care less then I probably would---I think the correct thing to say
is couldn't care less and I couldn't!  With football, basketball, and NASCAR,
who needs baseball?  To me the players are inconsiderate whiners.  Just think
of the other people associated with this sport who lost their jobs.  The
custodians, ushers, vendors, etc. who worked there didn't make millions of d
you don't hear them crying about their wages.  If baseball players did more
work maybe they would be more appreciative of their salaries.

Yeah, there was much discussion of the "I could care less" statement in 
the pet peeves section of a previous agora. 
It has been a peeve of mine for quite a while. 

On the other hand, I could not care less about baseball at this point.

        I missed baseball the day after the strike, and expect to be in woe
until 1996, when there will be a full, real season, with major league
players playing after a full spring training; the finest athletes in the
world playing the best game there is at it's highest level.  I do not know
how I am going to get through what ought to be, but won't be, the 1995
baseball season.

I have been paying some attention to the latest posturing in this strike
through the news I get in Baseball Weekly.  It seems to me that within the
next two months a major decision will be made by the courts whether to side
with the players or the owners.  A court decision in either direction 
would be devastating to either side, according to those that are close to
the situation.  Two months may be a bit of a pipe dream, but in any event
I expect REAL major leaguers back on the field by the All-Star break.
It seems as though some of you don't care about this -- fine, maybe you
should try another group.  At any rate, there appears to be a good deal of
middle-minors level people who are willing to cross the picket line, so
the jokes of "hey, I'll pitch for the Tigers" and similar comments are made
by those who are ludicrously ill-informed.  What will be on the fields 
will be decent baseball, just not major-league caliber; those wishfuls that
made the trip to Florida these past few weeks (save for a select few who
will get to be on the payroll as a practice squad) will be going right back
home by the end of the month.  Out of the 228 players who showed up for the
Blue Jay's tryout in Dunedin, FL -- which was limited to players aged 19-25
with pro experience -- they might keep 10.  Most signings will be limited
to players the organization seeks out on its own or pulls from the career
minor leaguers within their own system.

Scabbball in '95, Baseball in '96!

 Well, Sparky has balked at the idea of coaching the replacements, but
I can't help thinking that this will lead to others like LaSorda, and
the other "oldermanagers following siut.

Sparky has gone beyond that. He's now history. Toast.
You'll never see him in a Tiger uniform again.

is that opinion or fact, Steve? I'm wondering if there's something
I haven't heard yet. The buzz in the Free Press was that Sparky was
trying to be fired.

        Sparky's future is likely to be determined by what other managers do.
The manager of the Boston Red Sox will be managing the replacement
players, but none of the others in the AL East will be.  Toronto gave
Cito Gaston a leave of absence.  Baltimore is refusing to play with
replacement players, either in spring training or for the regular season.
Most of the managers have not said what they will do.  If they all decide
to manage, Sparky will definitely be gone.  If they all decide not to
manage, Sparky may be back.
        It's a tough call for any manager, I would think.  What baseball
player would respect a manager who snubbed the strike?  I thought Sparky
was pretty smart to announce he wouldn't manage when he first refused.  On
the other hand, a manager is -- well, management, the representative of
the owner of his club.
        The Detroit News called Sparky a hypocrite; they said he just wants
to get fired so he can get hired by a better club that can help him
become the 2nd winningest manager in baseball history.  (He needs about
600 victories to achieve this goal.)  No question he doesn't sacrifice any
victories in favor of player development... he's been justifiably
criticized for this for several years.  Is he that obsessed by the record
books?  I like Sparky; I don't want to believe it.  But maybe I have to.

It is opinion. But I think that even if none of the AL managers manage
that Sparky has poisoned the relationshiip he had with the organization
so badly, that he will not be back.

        Well... Sparky is a great manager.  But he is a great manager for a
good club, not for a rebuilding club.  It might be better for everyone if
he moves on.
        If he goes, I'll miss him.

I agree with all that. I'll miss him, too.
I think what we saw was the culmination of years of being frustrated with
the front office. Sparky finally let it show. (That's only my opinion.)

 Despite what I said earlier, I don't think Sparky is a goner. I think
it would be bad press if Illitch chose to make a stink over it. I feel
that Sparky will be back once the strike is over, and nothing will be
said about it by Tiger management.
  I am certainly having mixed feelings on the strike. My father was a union
man, and insisted that everything in our house be union made, that accounts
for my liberalism; but on the other hand, these players make millions
per season and can afford to do things most typical union type folks cannot.
And these guys should be the last people on earth to need a union.

  I don't like baseball in the first place. I think it's boring, overrated
and too commercial. This strike is appalling.

 Well,LaSorda made his feelings clear today, He's with management, and 
says that since he's been with the Dodgers for 46 yrs, he's gonna honor
his contract. Can't say I blame him, but I thought that he'd be different.

oh well.

  The strike is over, but the perverbial ball is now in the owners court.
Personally, I really don't think a lockout will happen because of the
afore mentioned bad press scene. I think we'll be seeing some baseball
come Apr 24; although you won't catch me watching it.

 I was right. Sparky is back, and Illitch hasn't uttered word one 
about the whole mess. 

I'd say baseball (the game on the field) *is* a damaged product to
date this year.  144 games is enough for a legitimate sorting of teams,
but so far motor memories seem a little fried.

 I don't think baseball will ever be the same again. To me, it's just
a bunch of millionaries getting rich at playing a child
s game. 

I think you're right, but I have a more ambivalent sense.  I remember the
pro game of the sixties and seventies (because of my age).  In that era,
because of the restrictive clause, teams tended to keep the same players
and salary discussions were much less in the forefront.  Since those days
of my youth baseball has changed a great deal, and so have I.  I don't
believe in those contract restrictions and am personally less likely to
have a rooting sense of loyalty to a favorite team.  I still enjoy the
game, but certainly have a different view of it than I did 30 years ago
when my impressions were being formed.  Part of that changed impression is
just me changing.

  I think controversy, greed, mercenary players, goofy ownership,
cheating, indifferently played games, etc. etc. have been around as long
as baseball.  The expressions of human nature haven't changed *that much*
since the 1890's...

  More teams, more competing sports, fewer amateur players and other
like circumstances dilute the "talent pool" and in theory make a worse
professional game on the field.  But I think from a statistical basis those
"dilution" arguments are weakened or countered by a) a much larger overall
population (including more foreign players) b) better sports medicine and
c) more year round conditioning of athletes:  All meaning teams of the
past probably were no more accomplished athletically relatively to the
population at large than they are today.  Maybe less so....

        Wow.  Nice response, Mike.  Of course, it helps that I agree with all
that you said.  (-:

        Money hasn't spoiled baseball.  Baseball is still the grandest game
of all.  It's just grand and rich now, where it used to be grand and poor.
I don't think the money has detracted at all from the game.  I don't mind
knowing that the guy throwing the baseball, or catching it, or striking
out at the plate, might be making more money that day than I will in a
year of work.  I've seen Al Kaline, one of the greatest to ever play the
game, busting his tail for $100,000 per year in the 60's, and I've seen
Jose Canseco busting his for $5 million per year.  They were playing the
same game.  They were both very good at it, and they both deserved however
much they could get from their efforts.

 I'm sorry jep, but I really don't think anyone is worth 5 million a year
just to run and throw a baseball. My dad, worked at 3 jobs, went to scholl
er school, still didn't make any more than 50K, and he was a top man
in his field, which was steam engineering. I think that teachers, not
baseball players and all professional sports personalities, should be
highly paid, after all, without teachers, we don't have a future.

just an opinion

        No objection from me; if they can get someone to pay them for it,
teachers should make $5 million per year, too.  I don't care if everyone
makes that much.  It won't affect my appreciation of what anyone does.  I
don't see dollar signs running around the baseball field, I see the best
athletes in the world, playing the best game there is.  That's all I care
about when I watch a professional baseball game.

I agree. I'm no fan of baseball, but you shouldn't blame the players
for making a lot of money. If you want them to make less, don't pay
to watch them. If it's worth it for you to pay to watch them, then
they are earning their money.

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