Howdy out there!  I was wondering if anybody has read any of the new sci-fi
   bo^[[C^H^[[D^[[D^[[D^[[D
books by Steven R. Donaldson.  The two that have been released in paperback
so far have been 'The Real Story' and 'Forbidden Knowledge'. Both of these of 
great books with 'Forbidden Knowledge' being one of the best books I have read
all year......

19 responses total.

I got them in hardcover for Christmas!  (The Real Story; Forbidden Knowledge;
and A Dark and Hungry God Arises).  Haven't had a chance to start them yet
(I'm still finishing up Benford's _Artifact_), though I'm glad to hear they
are good reading.

        Donaldson's career has been an interesting one.  I read and loved his
original series about Thomas Covenant.  I read and made it through his
second series about Thomas Covenant.  I read "The Mirror of her Dreams", a
book about boredom and ineffectiveness, told in an appropriate boring and
ineffective style; I read it all the way through, amazed that such a
writer as Donaldson wouldn't come up with some way to save his book by the
end.  Well, he didn't.  Maybe he does save it in "A Man Rides Through",
the second half of the series.  But I'll never know.  I've been forced to
give up on Donaldson.  I didn't want to.

It's been a while since I've read "Mirror" and "Rides Through" but I
don't think I was left feeling let down at the end.
  It looks to me like Donaldson has started down a trail of writing
books that start out strange and then ???.  I just finished "Real Story"
and it's not something I'd recommend to people who are squeamih or
liable to be offended by:  rape, torture, beatings, verbal abuse, murder,
etc.  At this point in the second book ("Forbidden Knowledge") I'm having
a difficult time finding any empathy for either of the main characters,
although I guess there's still a chance Donaldson can salvage something
by the end.  Part of the problem I have with the characters is that,
although they have plenty of problems, and it will be somewhat interesting
to see if they can do anything with their situations, they really do
deserve their current situations (with one exception, which I won't tell
about here, tho' I don't want any of the feminists to jump on me if they
read these books, hint, hint).  

   That's mainly what I dislike about Donaldson: it's hard
to feel empathy or sympathy for his protagonists (although
that problem isn't shared by other people, one of whom
took me to task for saying this about a favorite book).

Well, I wouldn't say I have a hard time feeling empathy for all
Donaldson's characters, but it does seem to me like he's evoking less
and less empathy as he goes...

Hard to feel empathy for his protagonists?  Impossible for me,
judging by the Thos. Cov. books.  I *wanted* Lord Foul to win,
and stomp the "good guys" flat.  Well, more like Lord Foul to lose
and take the weenie out with him.

Doesn't the last book end with Thos. becoming the keystone to the
Arch of Time or some such?  Great.  "In your astral journeys,
you may come across the Arch of Time.  You'll know it because
you'll hear a voice from the keystone, saying "I'm just a diseased
keystone ...".".

You picked the one series of Donaldson books where I felt the *most*
empathy for the characters (be they good, bad, downtrodden, or whatever).
I think since that series, he's been evoking less and less empathy.

        Thomas Covenant is no hero; he's got a lot of faults (the rape turned
me off, too -- it ruined the entire series for a lot of people).  But his
faults made him seem much more real to me.  He was hopeless, but it was
for good reasons.  His life, as a leper, would be very difficult to live
and remain positive.  He thought of the Land as a dream or delusion; that
made his attitude toward it pretty reasonable.
        There were characters I really liked.  Hyrim, son of Hoole, and Lord
Verement, for example.  Triock.  I appreciated Saltheart Foamfollower.  I
loved Troy (leave it to me to like best the only real warrior in a story
about pacifism!).
        I liked the story for it's many bright points of optimism and beauty.
Covenant is a background for the background of the Land; a contrast which
made me appreciate the rest.

Hmmm ... I'm into heraldry in the SCA.  I'm afraid I'm squicked by
"Saltheart Foamfollower" by seeing too many bad-fantasy names like
that in the SCA.  "Moonsinger Silverwolf of the Elven Glen".  Gak.

Notice how so many subdivisions and malls nowadays are one word
with two parts?  Briarwood, e.g.

...my name?  Uhhh...Gak of...of...just Gak.

what about the Blood Gaurd in TS? Am I the only person in the world who liked
them? (probably)

Ooops that should be CTC.....

I liked covenant and I agree with #12...the contrast was marvelous.  I agree
that while it is hard to feel empathy for/with/in the Gap Into Conflict series
it is still an interesting world and set of circumstances...holds my attn...
but I still prefer a book that makes me chuckle or cringe or become so 
involved I can do nothing but finish it...Sometimes series are very
frustrating that way...Has any one read the Venus Prime series?  I am
curious about it while I wait for it to be finished...
What about Christopher Stasheff?  Any opinions on him?  I found it quite
humorous!...The wizard series that is...anyone read his next series attempt?

Hi Tim, fancy meeting you here!  Or is that "ya'all" nowadays? 

Um, CTC?  TS?  I have trouble figuring out acronyms.

Could REALLY do without Donaldson, didn't think he could write all that well,
and his basic premise was icky.
Stasheff is fun, but not much above Piers Anthony in some ways.
Can't think of a favorite fun-fantasy author right now, but I'll remember one.

Yeah, like Anthony, Stasheff started well.  "The Warlock in Spite of Himself"
was a fun book, but all the sequels are lame.  One of the prequel's, "Escape
Velocity," wasn't too bad, I thought.

_The Warlock In Spite of Himself_ Was rather interesting, I liked it- 
I found the world Stasheff created interesting... The follow up 
books weren't as good- they lost my interest- and I just stopped
reading them.

I prefered "Her Majesty's Wizard" by Stashteff.  I cannot remember why 
now tho.

Because it htad te deamon of perversity and some neat poetry?

I think that was it.  ;)

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