Some notes on freedom and ethics:

HERBERT SPENCER 1820P1903
Absolute morality is the regulation of conduct in such a way
that pain shall not be inflicted.
Essays (1891), vol.iii, p.152. Prison Ethics

G.K. CHESTERTON 1874P1936
Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes,
our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses
to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who merely
happen to be walking about. All democrats object to men being
disqualified by the accident of birth; tradition objects to their
being disqualified by the accident of death.
4. The Ethics of Elfland

HARTLEY COLERIDGE 1796P1849
But what is Freedom? Rightly understood,
A universal licence to be good.
Liberty

HENRIK IBSEN 1828P1906
You should never have your best trousers on when you turn out
to fight for freedom and truth.
Act 5

JOHN FITZGERALD KENNEDY 1917P1963
And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do
for youPPask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens
of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what
together we can do for the freedom of man.
Inaugural address, 20 Jan. 1961.

LORD MACAULAY 1800P1859
Many politicians of our time are in the habit of laying it down
as a self-evident proposition, that no people ought to be free
till they are fit to use their freedom. The maxim is worthy of
the fool in the old story, who resolved not to go into the water
till he had learnt to swim. If men are to wait for liberty till
they become wise and good in slavery, they may indeed wait for
ever.

JOHN MILTON 1608P1674
None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not
freedom, but licence.
The Tenure of Kings and Magistrates (1648-9)

MARK TWAIN 1835P1910
It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those
three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom
of conscience, and the prudence never to practise either of them.
Following the Equator (1897), heading of ch.20

21 responses total.

I liked the Macauley quote.

The Macauley quote is a perfect description of the Soviet Union
today!    I know a Russian Russian politics professor who is
eternally down on the chance for former soviet states because
"the people don't have enough experience with democracy or 
capitalism."
They'd never have gotten it if it weren't for the process
Gorbachev and Yeltsin set in motion.  But in the long-run, this
is the best way to get it.  Sudden immersion.  The peoples
of the region will truly live up to the maxim of "sink or swim."

Yes, but if you've never swum before, it's foolish to go in the water
without some lifeguards or experienced swimmers around.

Well, I'm not so sure about that.  Adults (and children, too, I suspect)
can watch and learn from others. Then they can go out and try it on their
own.  

Anyway, I'm not so sure there are any "democracy lifeguards" out there.

Well, I wouldn't want my first swimming experience to be diving off the
cliff at Acapulco.  That's approximately the position the countries of
the former Soviet bloc are in.

There are "democracy lifeguards" out there, if they choose to act.

   It's easier to wade into the water and splash around first,
than to jump into deep water.  Practice 'democracy' at the local
levels first, before trying it all over.  After all, isn't that
basically what the Colonies did before they became the U.S.?

 I like Twain. short and to the point.

re #5:  You might if that's all you ever wanted to do and were
completely unable to do it for the last 75 years or more.

View hidden response.

I don't understand the Chesterton quote...what's he trying to say? that dead
people should be allowed to vote?!?!

(this item is linked from the reality conference, item #6. enjoy!)

okay.  (did you go through and respond to every item?  is this an attempt
to restart this cf?  if so, i wish you luck.  it's great, but is was about
to take it off my .cflist because of lack of activity.)

that was in reality, not scruples.  :)

re #10: (I don't think that's what he meant literally. Rather, he was
         trying to point out that by dwelling on what those who came before
         wanted, we can ignore what we need now. Thus, we side with that
         which has gone before, and in so doing give voice to the dead.)

He was saying that many people, by appealing to tradition as the
ultimate rationale for doing things, do in fact "let dead people vote" and
make their vote the deciding one.

"I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public
 debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we
 must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make
 our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude
 If we can prevent the government from wasting the labours of the
 people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy."
                        Thomas Jefferson                           

(I pulled this from someone's .signature, & only presume that it is
in fact from Jefferson.  _Caveat lector_.)

Beyond me

Welcome to the Reality conference, Ernest! And what exactly, prey tell, is
beyond you?

Many people don't realize this, but JFK was killed by Mark Twain's grandson.

Anyone care to talk about Ayn Rand's Objectivism and Virtue of selfishness?

Read "The Fountainhead". Other than that I would not know enough about 
her philosophy to speak of it.

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