So, what is the point?

I mean, what is the point of being alive?  Why would anyone want to be alive,
or stay alive?

I think some people think the point is to have a good time.  To grab as many 
happy moments as you have the opportunity to grab.  Or is it to make the 
largest percentage of your moments happy?  In that case it would be best to 
spend your whole life high on drugs and then die, I think.  Or, maybe you 
should graph your life as happiness vs. time (happy times get a positive 
value, and sad times a negative value), and the objective is to mazimize the 
integral of the function.

Some people think the point is to be a "good" person.  The trouble is that 
what I think is good isn't necessarily what other people think is good.  Heck, 
some people argue that what Mother Theresa did wasn't "good", because it 
perpetuated the conditions she treated by making them more tolerable, and not 
attacking the root cause.  Even more basically, lots of people seem to think 
that "helping others" is "good".  Why, I wonder?  Because it makes them 
happier?  So if happy is good, then we're back to the hedonist model.  So why 
not just get high all the time, and the hell with everyone else? 

For that matter, does one human helping another really qualify as "helping 
others"?  Sometimes I think of the human race, and the earth itself, as kind 
of like one organism, ala the Gaia Hypothesis.  Would you congratulate your 
spleen for helping out your liver?  Or would you figure that one part of an 
organism that helps another is just doing its job?

It seems to me more and more like the whole notion of "the point of life is to 
be good" has it backwards; rather what we call "goodness" is about maximizing 
(locally) the happiness of the race.  It's a construct we have made up in 
order to be able to live with one another.  And we should say, "well, if 
you're going to live, you ought to be good in order to make it more 
pleasurable for everyone".

But the assumption in there was that people were already alive, and we need to 
make the best of it.  But that needn't be the case - we could each choose to 
die.  So why don't we?  Is there anything to strive for besides the happiness 
of one's self, or the happiness of the race, and is happiness really the best 
we can hope for?

What is the point?

105 responses total.

I hate to say this, however, the purpose of life is life.  Perhaps not to
a given individual but it is to the species.  Otherwise the species dies
off.
 
Good and happy are only so relative to bad and unhappy.  A person who
spends their entire life "happy" would be totally unaware of it and would
probably feel good and bad as well as happy and unhappy while being in
this so-called state of "happiness".

Yep.  Life is a process whose only purpose is to continue.  Conditions
conducive to continuing are "good" and make living things "happy" while
conditions not conducive to continuing are "bad" and make living things
"unhappy".  The point of being alive for me is that millions of years of
evolution has wired me to fundamentally enjoy being alive, and done a
heck of good job of it.  I'm happy with that (of course).  I intend to
spend my life doing life affirming things.  There isn't a great and
cosmic purpose to it all.  It's just fun being a living thing in a
living universe.

We are pollinators. That is why we can walk.

If you die, there is one certainty, that you can't hope for any more 
from your life.  

  One of the things (perhaps *THE* thing) that makes humans unique
  among the creatures we know about is that we are capable of deciding
  for ourselves what the point of our lives should be..  It's an unusual
  position to be in -- take full advantage of it.

wow.  i haven't seen urchin in a long time.  welcome back to agora!

This is a dangerous question to be asking me just now

Given the fact that I believe whole-heartedly that there are enough human
beings on the planet in order to continue the race, were I to take this
question personally and look at it from my own perspective, that being the
only one I actually know, I've yet to decipher the purpose of my life.  I
don't know why I keep living, other than the fact that it comes pretty
naturally.  

Decidely, I'm living to see what living is for...  The more I live, the
clearer and hazier that seems...  

I agree with Klaus and Jan - life has no "purpose" except to carry out
the processes of life, but *I* have purposes, which makes all the difference
in the word. My purposes can be self chosen or imposed upon me by others
and circumstances. This query should not be dangerous to anyone (as
senna suggests) because the question as posed in #0 appears to assume
that the "purpose" is to be preordained and handed to one. But there is
no evidence for that, so what one has is freedom to create one's own
purposes. Freedom seems to be to be much more liberating and desirable
than being forced into a mold of some other choosing. 

        I thought the purpose of life is to drive your parents crazy.

the purpose of my life is to see how many things I can do at once before my
head explodes and I cease to be available for genetic purposes. that or drive
my parents crazy..

No, it's dangerous to me, specifically, because I might accidently decide that
I have no purpose :)  Just part of my brutal self-loathing that I sink too
on occasion of feeling rather depressed.  Rather fortunately, I don't seem
to be feeling that way.  

An Explanation of my purpose would probably be too long and involved, and in
addition would cause many people to suddenly refute who I am and declare that
I am living in a state of deception.  At any rate, I don't feel the need to
write it here :)

The point of life?  To do, to be, to live, to love, and fight the good fight.

Actually, the purpose of life depnds on your point of view, or rather, your
belief system.  Your purpose in life may be good or bad, relative to the
conditions around you at the time.

The question in #0 was what was the *point* of life.  Is that different from
does life has a purpose?  From one point of view, there is no "purpose" to
life in general, or anything else, for that matter.  What is the purpose of
a rock?  It has none, it just is.  What's the purpose of a porpoise?  To swim?
To be food for a shark, or a human?  What's the purpose of a papoose?  If we
pretend it's a human self-child-carrier (actually the Merriam Webster on-line
dictionary doesn't say that), then, since it's not a naturally occurring
object (as far as I could prove :-), you could say it had the purpose its
makers intended.

Another point of view believes that everything was made by a Creator, and
therefore has the purpose He intended.  That would include life, living things.

For which there is zero evidence. It is more consistent with observation
to conclude that the concept of "purpose" is not the correct one to apply
to what we observe. The concept of "function" is the better perspective.
The old idea that it is the "purpose" of eyes to see implies that there
is something setting that purpose. There isn't, but it is perfectly true
that the *function* of eyes is to see. 

The purpose of something depends on the perspective of the person 
defining the purpose, wouldn't you say?  God might have a purpose for my 
life, I might have a purpose which is different, my parents probably had 
something in mind when they decided to have me, and my kids have another 
purpose for which they think it's necessary to have me around.  My 
employer has a purpose for me, and the IRS has one.  Those here on Grex 
who don't just wish I'd go away, probably have something in mind for me, 
too.

There's no such thing as "THE point" when you're talking about your 
life.  You are, like everyone else, multi-faceted, different to everyone 
you ever met or ever will.  They can all want something for you and 
something from you.  They probably do.

You're different to you every day, too -- at least I'm different to me 
every day.  That's how I keep myself on my toes.  There's no way I'm 
going to wake up some morning, and realize I accomplished all I set out 
to do in my life, and so give up the rest.

Life is not like a multiple-choice exam, with one right answer.  It's a 
really big take-home essay test.  Take all the time you can, and get it 
right.  Don't turn it in until you have to.

I like that.. :)

Heh.  Makes no sense worrying too much about whether you're doing things
right, either, because then you can't be doing them right while you're
worrying.  

Most of you seem to seem to think this is a stupid question.  The responses so 
far range from the flippant: 
    "the purpose of life is life" (n8nxf) 
    "because I like it" (janc)
    "because if I die I can't hope for more" (jep)
to the defensive:
    "there is no pre-ordained purpose" (rcurl)
to the humorous:
    "to drive your parents crazy" (gibson)
    "to do as many things as possible before my head explodes" (maeve)
to the sanctimonious:
    "to do, to be, to live, to love, and fight the good fight" (okuma)

A few of the rest of you were a little less sure of yourselves.

I suppose if I went to a preacher in a small, all-Christian community in the 
Midwest in, say, 1850, and asked him why he believed in God, he would probably 
declare the question to be stupid, because to ask it would be too much of a 
challenge to his beliefs.  I would be drummed out of town as a heathen, or 
else someone would try to convert "the wayward sheep".

In the same way I have challenged the very prevalent faith that everyone's 
life is worth living.  I don't have that faith, and I've always thought faith 
was a really bad reason to give for making a big decision.  (I make small 
decisions based on faith; like I turn off the computer at night because I have 
faith that I'll be able to turn it on again in the future.  Sometimes my faith 
is misplaced, though...) I realize there are lots of people who have a 
different opinion of faith than I do. 

janc:  If a politician were running for re-election, and gave as his only 
reason for doing so, "Because I'm having fun", would you vote for him?  
(Setting aside the points you'd give him for honesty.)  Wouldn't you want to 
examine what it was he was doing?  And is deciding whether to go on living any 
less momentous a decision than deciding who to vote for? 

jep:  What is so great about "hope"?  Most of my hopes have led to more pain 
than joy.

mcnally:  I agree that it's pretty important that humans get to decide whether 
their lives have a point, and if so what it is.  So how do you decide?

other:  Thanks for the welcome back - I didn't think anyone would remember me, 
since I haven't emerged for a while.

albaugh:  Thanks for pointing out the distinction between "purpose" and 
"point".  I never implied any assumption about a Creator, though I know some 
people define the point of their life in those terms.

rcurl:  I don't really see any difference between "purpose" and "function" - 
both imply being used by something.  Some people think of themselves that way, 
I know, but the question is about why people decide to go on living, not what 
other people decide for them.

jep:  If there is no point, then why go on?  Cowardice?  Inertia?  
Selfishness?  Can you give me a reason I'll respect?  (Start with a resaon 
*you* respect.)

n8nxf brings up a good point about happiness: that it is all relative.  If you 
have experienced something like, say, being tortured, then having lunch with a 
friend might seem better to you than to the friend, if he has never been 
tortured.  In other words, the example of the "happy integral" I gave in #0 is 
fundamentally flawed, since it's the differences between the highs and the 
lows that really matter.  I'll have to think about it some more.

I submit to you that asking why you should go on living is *not* a stupid 
question.  It's a really *important* question.  Consider that while you are 
alive you are using up resources, crowding the planet, and generally altering 
the world around you.  Maybe that's for the better, maybe for the worse.  
Shouldn't that be a factor in whether you decide to go on living? 

Why make humans a separate entity from the rest of this world?  Trees
use up resources, crowd the planet and generally alter the world
around you.  Why isolate humans or any other living thing?  Humans, 
yourself included, are every bit as much a part of this world as any-
thing else.  Just because we are "intelligent" and can comprehend the
possible result of our actions does not isolate us from the world.  We
are very much a part of it and very dependent on it.  Our "intelligence"
is nothing more than something we use to survive by, much as a turtle
uses its shell.  We have very little else going for us in the survival
department.

As far as using up resources goes, if you die you will continue to use up
resource and give nothing back to the planet.  

I suppose one other reason for life is potential.  You might not see any
reason for life at the moment, but there is the potential that you will do
something really important in the future.  Or at least really satisfying.

My answers were serious.

I didn't say there is *no* point to a life, I said there is not *only* 
one point, clear, apparent, legitimate, and sufficient for everyone 
around.  I said there are a *lot* of points to my life, depending on the 
perspective of the person whom you ask.

The difference between "purpose" and "function" is the former implies
a conceptual intent, while the latter is purely how something, well,
functions. My eyes have a function but *I* have purposes (of my own
devising, or imposed upon me). It is worthwhile making the distinction
as many people confuse purpose and function, with a lot of resulting
confusion. 

Yeah, the function of a handgun is to discharge a lead projectile at high
speed in a controlled trajectory.  The purpose of a handgun is to threaten
to, and/or in fact wound/kill something, often another human.  What is the
point of [inventing/having] a handgun?  To protect oneself, to have a weapon
for carrying out crime, etc.  I guess...  ;-)

The handgun does not have a purpose of threatening, etc, bu *you*
might. Inanimate objects never have purposes (but they do have functions).

Re #22:  Bruce, in what way do you continue to use resources after you're
dead?

So to split a hair, then, inanimate objects don't have a *self-purpose*.
But to me, a *made*, inanimate object, can have a purpose beyond its function,
namely what its maker intended.  In that regard I maintain that a gun has a
purpose, inherently.

I think you might be mistaken as to the flippancy of people's remarks...I
don't think my life necessarily has a purpose, but I fought damn hard to be
here in the first place, and find that reason enough to carry on. If at the
age of -3 months, I felt it necessary to exert taht much energy, then there
must have been some reason, because I'm pretty lazy as a rule, thus I trundle
about attempting to do as many things as possible because I certainly wouldn't
want to end up not having 'qualified' the energy I spent and the trouble I
gave people..so it's all a sort of repaying in my eyes..

I'm not being flippant to even the slightest degree.  When I vote for
candidates in an election I vote for ones who I believe will act in a way to
improve the quality of life on this planet.  My decision to live for life is
not arbitrary or whimsical.  It's wired into all living things.  Your only
choices are that or self-destruction.  There is no logical or rational way
to choose between the two, except to say that one is much more pleasant than
the other.  People who look for purpose as some sort of shining absolute, like
a Holy Grail, are confused and usually end up behaving in ways that are
destructive to themselves and to everything around them.  The purposes of
life, such as they are, are earthy and ordinary, like eating dinner and
diapering the baby.  Your reason is a great tool for accomplishing specific
goals.  But to accomplish a life you've got to be guided by your gut feeling
for what is good - your sense of pleasure.

My purpose is to give a proverbial finger to the general establishment.  I
consider my existence to be an insult to higher civilization.

Re #28: false. I use screwdrivers to open paint cans. Does it really matter
what the device is called in the promotional literature, or even what the
inventor or manufacturer intended? *They* had purposes in making the
devices, but that carries absolutely no obligation upon me. Say, everyone
in the world was killed by an asteroid collision. But there is still a
gun. What are you going to say is its "purpose", again? It certainly still
retains a function (to go bang and propel a slug, if it didn't already).

re 0:  I ask myself that question all the time.  Mostly, I come up
with the same answer:  we're alive to procreate, and the rest is
...stuff.   Damned depressing view, I suppose, since it implies that
if you don't plan to procreate, you're wasting your time.  I don't
don't like nor want to accept that implication, because I resent
the notion that we are our gonads.  

(caveat: my meds are in flux.)

You miss the point. WE have whatever purposes (intents) we wish to assign
ourselves, and we can make them as non-depressing as we wish. You don't
even have to be interested in procreating. 

well, you get embalmed by a non-biodegradeable chemical, you get placed in
a coffin that uses planetary resouces, you decay inside a nonepermeable coffin
that keeps any benefit your body may have seperated from the rest of the
environment, they mow the grass with a gass engine, they fertilize the grass
with a man made fertilizer, they weed it with a chemical weeder...

you don't *have* to be interested in procreationg..but then you're ust going
against millions of years of evolution..

*THAT* is exactly the power of human purpose (intent)! You are now free
to "go against" any millions of years of evolution. I did it first by
learning to read.

I'm not sure learning to read goes against evolution.  Since a person in
present day American society would not do very well without being able to
read, it is a fairly basic survival skill.  That's what evolution is all
about.

You're here because the Earth wanted plastic. First there was the Earth, then
along came the humans. Then the humans made plastic. After all the humans are
gone, there will just be the Earth, and plastic.
  (a tip of the hat to George Carlin.)

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss