We have some issues with the Livingston County Friend of the Court.  
These aren't earth shattering,life and death issues, but they're 
persistent and annoying, and so I thought I'd seek some input.

My wife is divorced, and has custody of her 7 year old son.  His father 
is supposed to pay child support, which is supposed to be withheld from 
his wages.  He says the money is being withheld, but we're not getting 
it.  He's changed jobs twice in the last year; each change has brought a 
couple months of delay in our receiving the child support check.

My wife wrote to the Friend of the Court once again, asking where the 
money is.  I haven't seen the letter she got back, but she read parts of 
it to me, and it sounds like they've tried calling the ex-husband's 
employer's payroll office (located in Houston), had trouble getting 
information from them, and wrote back to us saying something along the 
lines of "Well, we tried, but they were hard to deal with, so we can't 
get the information you requested".  My wife had a similar experience 
writing to request information about missing child support checks over 
the summer.  Friend of the Court made a half-hearted attempt to check 
into what the problem was when they weren't receiving money, and wrote 
back to us, saying "We tried, but they weren't cooperative enough and so 
we didn't get any information."

My wife also asked by phone for an accounting of the checks they record 
her as being sent.  This was so she could determine how many she's 
behind, and whether any are supposed to have been sent but just were not 
received.  She was told they'd send an account listing right away.  
Since then she's written them a letter and gotten a response back, so 
obviously they didn't send the information "right away".

There have been similar problems with Friend of the Court since we got 
married 3 years ago.  I've pressed for my wife to demand information, go 
to court if she has to and ask for their help, or even sue, but she's 
not willing to do that.  She fears retribution.  Maybe if her ex-husband 
tried to get custody from her, the Friend of the Court would help him 
by saying she's difficult to work with, or something.  I think that's an 
unlikely situation, and that she'd have a backlog of years of 
documentation showing all the trouble she's had getting her money, and 
all the effort she's made.  (She does keep the letters she sends.)  But 
it's her kid, and her decision, and if anything like that did happen, it 
would be pretty awful.

The father is a decent enough guy, hard as it is for someone in my 
position to say that about an ex-husband.  (I can hardly be 
expected to like him much, or him me.)  Anyway, this isn't an issue with 
him; it shouldn't have anything to do with him as long as he's working.  
(The money is withheld; he never sees it or touches it.)

It's not a lot of money.  We are not dependent on it.  If it never 
comes, or comes 4 months late, we'll get by; we're not missing any meals 
or rent payments.  It is very annoying and frustrating.  

My issue for today is: how does one go about holding the Friend of the 
Court accountable?  Everyone who has dealt with the Friend of the Court 
has had many frustrating experiences, but has anyone ever managed to get 
a problem resolved with them?  Do you have to sue over matters such as 
this?  *Can* you sue?  Is there really a risk of retaliation if you try 
to resolve a problem?  Is the Friend of the Court overwhelmed with 
difficult and important cases, from people who have to have some help or 
have severe consequences, or is it reasonable to expect responsiveness 
and helpfulness from them?

Thanks for any comments!

28 responses total.

In all the 16 years since my divorce, I have seen about $75 worth of child
support.  My ex is paying, and we have no idea where it's going.  When we
asked, we were told that the state keeps part of it to pay for the time I was
on welfare.  I got off welfare 10 years ago.

So much for friend of the court.

Why aren't you challenging that, Misti?  The Friend of the Court should 
at the least be accounting to you for the money.

Is it possible to go around the Friend of the Court, and the payroll
deductions, and just have one ex-spouse write checks directly to the other?

My impression is that avoiding Friend of the Court is very desirable, but
that it requires good planning and lawyer work BEFORE you get a (friendly)
divorce.  A friendly judge might be able to help you get rid of them, but
i wouldn't count on it.

It would have to be an awfully friendly divorce.  There would be no 
accountability between the parents.  One could claim they wrote the 
checks; the other could claim they never got them, or got them late, or 
didn't get the right amount.  I don't think judges will order this to 
happen, but if both parents are willing to work outside the system, and 
the issue of child support never goes to court, they could then make any 
arrangement they want.

If both parents are reasonable enough to work out this sort of 
arrangement, then there is no reason to have a divorce in the first 
place.

Jep, that last comment is telling.

It's very possible for two people to no longer want to be married yet
continue to behave like responsible adults.

Haven't seen it. 

Rare, but i've seen it.  Though i'd judge such arrangements to be far
more likely if it was both partner's second divorce (or they'd otherwise
had really-sunk-in experience with how bad Friend of the Court can be).

re #6: Two people so reasonable as to be able to work out financial 
arrangements for their kids without court intervention will also be 
reasonable enough to remain together so the kids can have a home and 
family.  All divorces that split apart families with kids include one or 
two adults who are not reasonable.

Kids can have a great home and family and yet have divorced
parents.  Geez, you guys only know some pretty sad excuses
for parents.

I don't believe that two reasonable people who don't love each other
should necessarily stay together just for the kids. Everyone deserves
to be with someone who loves him/her.

I know some *much* healthier *friends* who raise their kids in two houses,
and some really unhappy and unhealthy "partners" whose kids became less
stressed out once the parents split, even though the adults are still not
quite happy about it.  When I was little, I bought my parents' line that
divorce was for really extreme cases (abuse, severe mental illness, etc.) but
in retrospect, I'd sooner have had the model of two healthy people going their
own ways, than have watched them tearing at one another with only me to keep
them "together".  Oh well.

John, I haven't gone after the friend of the court because when I was on
welfare I didn't think I'd get any of the money anyway and once i was working
I didn't need it all that badly.  It was never worth the grief, in short. 

I'm one of those people who, I'm sure, would never have seen even that $75
of FotC hadn't intervened.  I didn't want any money from him in the first
place.  I just wanted OUT!  I got out.  Yeah, there were times when the money
would have been very helpful -- but those were the times I didn't have the
money to hire a lawyer.  If my ex has indeed been paying for all these years,
(I'm not entirely sure he has) then at least the state made him meet his moral
obligation.

I'll stand by #9.  I've seen very close up the effects of a split family 
on the kid.  I've heard my stepson (age 7) cry himself to sleep because 
he can't have his dad with him.

I did that, too, about my dad. BUt now that I'm grown up, the thought of
my mom and dad sharing the same home for the last 27 years is not only
difficult, but even scary.

In a world where no one is allowed to get married (or pregnant) before the
age of 35 and no one is allowed to marry anyone unless they've known them for
at least 10 years and lived with them for at least 3, it might be possible
to guarantee the outcome of marriage.

Meanwhile people will make mistakes.  Sometimes very serious ones.

If you are receiving monies through FOC, you should ask for an accounting
every year. You should check that accounting against what you have
received (or paid in). Odds are very good that you will find errors every
year.

If an employer is failing to comply with a court order to withhold wages, 
consider petitioning the court to hold the employer in contempt.

Our issue with the FoC is that we don't have any idea how much they've 
received, or when they received it.  We've asked for such information, 
but never been able to get it.  We just know my wife doesn't get checks 
very regularly; she's supposed to get weekly checks, but they are 
currently several weeks behind, and we've been told nothing about what 
will be done to bring the account up to date.

Also, my wife is worried that if she pushes too aggressively for 
information and results, the Foc could become biased against her in the 
event of future custody disputes.  Does that ever really happen, Aaron?  
(You'd probably know better than anyone else I know!)

If all you are doing is asking for a printout of payments received and
disbursements, you will be the smallest thorn in their side. Hang out in
the lobby of the FOC office, and see what they deal with every day.

They do keep every written document that you submit, and every note they
make about your case, in your file. However, I can't recall ever having
a request for an annual accounting as resulting in any sort of prejudice
to a client. (Unless there is a potential custody issue, support is
determined in most cases by a rigid formula -- the referees don't even
have the discretion to hold something against you.)

If they do get annoyed, blame everything on your lawyer. ;)

According to the Ann Arbor News, Livingston County has a citizen's 
oversight committee for the Friend of the Court.  (Each county is 
required to have one by state law, but most counties, in fact, do 
not.)

Also according to the AA News, the committee in Livingston doesn't even 
have the ability to see records, and so they have no power or 
capabilities at all.  Sigh.  I was excited when I saw the article in 
yesterday's paper, talking about an oversight committee for Washtenaw, 
but the details proved to be very discouraging.

The article is on-line at:
http://aa.mlive.com/news/index.ssf?/news/stories/focourt.frm

I'm afraid I don't have much sympathy for Livingston County Friend of 
the Court.  If we were dependent on them doing their job so we could pay 
the rent, we'd be in the street.  And some people are in exactly that 
position.

It's 5 years since I entered this item, and pretty interesting to look 
back on it.  Now I'm the dad paying child support.  The money is 
withheld from my paycheck; I wouldn't have it any other way.  State 
guidelines call for me to pay $25 per month, but I voluntarily pay $50 
and that is what the court ordered to be withheld.

Actually, I recently discovered that, for some reason, the court had 
ordered $70 per week taken from my paycheck.  I had occasion to visit 
the FoC and talk to my (case worker?) on another topic, but I asked 
him about this, too.  He said he didn't have any record of it.  He 
also said it was impossible; that there's no way they could be taking 
more money out than they should and not know it.  (hahahaha.  Well, 
that's what he said.)  The same week I talked to my case worker, I got 
a letter notifying me that $50 and change would now be withheld, a 
change from the previous $70 or thereabouts.

Weirdly, I don't know why because I've never received any explanation, 
I have received checks from the Michigan State Disbursement Unit 
twice, about a month ago and then again today.  I forgot how much the 
previous one was for.  Today's was $90.  I guess the MSDU must be the 
folks in charge of child support checks, and they must be reimbursing 
me for the overpayment I've made.

Child support is now handled at the state level, not at the county 
level.  I don't know if that works out better or worse for my now ex-
wife.  It doesn't seem to me to be my problem.  She has never 
mentioned it to me.

I have had scarce dealings with the FoC up to this point.  I had a 
dispute with my ex, and tried calling them to ask for help.  Then 
called again, and again... I kept a log of my various calls.  I sent 
them two letters.  I sent them a fax.  I never got calls back or any 
response.  That's when I went in to discuss the dispute with them.  My 
case worker knew about all of my attempts to communicate with him, but 
they'd been exceedingly busy, and you know how it goes.

I understood his position.  His job isn't all that much different from 
my own doing customer support.  Things get too busy to handle it all, 
so you do your best to prioritize, and things down the list never get 
dealt with.  They never will.  I've been through that myself from the 
other end.  When you're in customer support -- including his type of 
support -- whatever you're dealing with is more important to the other 
person than it is to you.

Very educational for me.  Not very helpful, though.

I was polite and respectful and made sure he'd remember me as not 
being unpleasant, and I went on my way.  I was (and remain) glad it 
wasn't life or death.  I try to keep in mind that maybe it *is* for 
someone else.  Hopefully he will help them.

Don't count on it. I know people in the FOC system and many are poorly
served. Federal deficits and state budget cuts are only going to make
things worse, and some of the neediest members of our society are going to
get screwed. I am also amazed the press has not picked up on this. There
are many compelling stories, although many are too scared to speak out,
for obvious reasons. I've heard it's so bad some women are returning to
abusive husbands rather than complete a divorce because the FOC is so
incompetent women find it impossible to trust their survival to such a
dysfunctional organization.  The FOC is continuing the victimization of
those who need their help the most. When I hear FOC stories from friends
and family, I am simply dumbfounded at how such a system can be allowed to
exist in this country.

it has precedent...


/points at ----------> IRS

This response has been erased.

Heh.  Todd, the money doesn't bother me very much.

This response has been erased.

*WAY* backlogged. I had a friend who's order increasing support sat on a desk
for two months waiting for an employee to get aroung to mailing it off to the
employer.

Response not possible - You must register and login before posting.

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss