Help!  My almost-15-month-old has a "barking" cough and wheezy
breathing that develops during the night, then pretty much dis-
appears in the morning.  No other symptoms.  I've been taking her
into the bathroom with the shower running hot for steam, which 
seems to help a little.  She's an exceptionally healthy child
(30" and 25 lbs.) who eats a vegetarian diet and hasn't been 
immunized yet.  Except for a couple of colds, she's never been
sick before.
Any suggestions?

36 responses total.

Wow, 15 months and never really sick before...you're doing something right!

One thing I suggest, if she's on solids cut way down on mucus-forming foods
for a while, like milk and dairy, etc.

If she's nursing, you should cut back on the same foods.

The steam is a good idea.

Tilt her bed so that her head is slightly elevated at night--a thick blanket
under the crib mattress should do it.  It'll keep her breathing easier, and 
she'll sleep better.

Often-times the only things you need to do are to make the baby more
comfortablewhile her system works it all out.  If you let that happen, she'll
be better prepared to cope with it the next time she's exposed to the
creeping-cruds.

Thanks for responding.  I have cut down on the dairy (which she didn't get too
much of anyway (she drinks soy milk, but I give her a little organic yogurt,
too), and also cut down on bread (her favorite thing--I make chewy homemade
bread and gumming it relieves teething pain).  She is still nursing--more
now that she doesn't feel good).  She sleeps with us in the futon so I'll 
try to figure out some way to raise the head of the frame or something
so she'll breathe easier.  I haven't really planned on taking her to the dr. 
unless she gets more symptoms, but I though there might be a natural 
"magic bullet" that someone might know (ha, ha, is anything that simple?!).
She's kind of whiny/cry-ie today, and is barking worse when she cries...
i probably feel worse about it than she does!
thankx again! :)

Well, allergies are a real possibility.  Either food or environmental.
This can take a lot of thought and work, if so.

I've considered allergies--I have a slew of them and they are really starting
to kick in this time of year...i always dread august.  seems like thirty days
of not getting to take a deep breath.
however, i haven't introduced anything new into her diet recently (tho its
true that they could develop even to something she's *been* eating...
but why just at night?  and the weird barking cough (sounds like a seal's bark)

I went to Perry's and bought a cool mist humidifier.  Tonite we'll sleep in 
the little back room (easier to humidify), which I've carefully cleaned and
dusted (no rugs, just hardwood floors).  I'm also trying homeopathic Pulsatilla
and Rescue Remedy... The humifier also supposedly cleans pollens & dust (i'll
be able to tell if  that claim's the truth, fer sure--see if my eyes are
swollen up when i wake tomorrow.

thanks for the reply--it was nice to check in at 200 am when i can't sleep
due to worrying about her cough and not wanting to miss anything that might
go wrong and finding someone trying to help :)
g'nite!

This response has been erased.

(yep--that's the reason for tilting the sleeping position)

There is a soy-based "yogurt" available aty Arbor Farms, that has active
acidopholus cultures in it - Tori (2) was *very* lactose intolerant as an
infant, and she went through _gallons_ of the stuff.  It's great
for collicky babies, too.

My kids got a "croupy" cough a bit ago - our doctor said that there was a
"croup-like virus" going around that mimics true croup but isn't.  It seemed
to burn itself out in a few days.  As long as the kid is breathing easily,
doesn't have a temp., and is feeling reasonably ok, I'd tend to keep up the
mist treatments and wait and see. 

Btw, we have a great doctor - he avoids any chemical intervention unless
absolutely necessary - doesn't believe in giving the kid an antibiotic
just to make the mommy feel better!.

Back up a sec, this child is 15 months old and hasn't had
any immunizations yet?  

Not yet.  She is not in daycare, and has contact with a limited group of
children whose families have not (yet) vaccinated their kids (all her age + or
- six months).  I plan to have her receive several, but not all, of her
vaccinations at around 2 years of age.  I have done some fairly in-depth
research into the subject, consulted with my midwife (an internationally
respected midwifery educator) and consulted with an allopathic physician before
my husband  and I made the decision to take this path...I also spent three
years working with neurologically impaired individuals, some of whom were quite
likely to have been impaired by vaccinations, in particular the pertussis
component.

Would you mind giving me the name of that great doctor?  is he an MD, DO
or of another variety?  ...make that the name/phone/location.  I live in
Detroit but don't mind driving, since doctors with that philosophy are
about as common as hen's teeth around here as far as I know.  Rosie has
been to see a physician, once at six weeks, just for an official "she's
perfect".  She was delivered in a free-standing birth clinic, so that 
truly was her only real "doctor" visit!  
Please forgive the length of the explanation and I may be a bit defensive,
but I would not like to be thought of as negligent in any way.  As I said,
she is an incredibly healthy child who has more than met the appropriate
physical and mental milestones and has had only a couple of colds in all
thistime.  Moreover, breastfeeding (and breastmilk is still a very important
part of her diet) confers some natural immunity as well.

She was somewhat better last night.  She did wheeze a bit, but no lengthy
middle-of-the-night coughing attacks.  The vaporizer helped.  Still, I'll
sleep better when she's all cleared up.
Thank you all.

Gee, I hope you will please take that child to a doctor. 

For what specific reason, Katie?
Ah, Becca, are you saying that Torie is no longer (as) lactose intolerant?
What did you DO?  I HATE having to refuse Timothy all cheese, milk, mac and
cheese, ice cream, yogurt, pizza, and other favorite kid-foods.  Nor am I real
fond of the price of the substitutes...

Kami, Timothy is plenty old enough to have a lactase replacer once
in a while so that he can sometimes have e those kid-favorite foods.
My eldest needs to do that and has used lact-aid since he was 3.
(Only occasionally, since the lact-aid is so expensive -- but it
beats having a little one come home from a friends with a *very* bad
tummy-ache.  (It's unbelievable the number of mothers who thought
I was just being mean when I said no milk, no ice cream, no pizza.

The sugar probl was one they believed after the first time they
tried it for themselves.  ;)  By the time I got him back he was
generally ready to "sleep it off".  

))

Well, the croupy cough has developed into a mild chest cold.  She's been
slurping down White Wave soy yogurt (thanks, Becca!) mixed with brown rice,
apple slices, and bananas like crazy today, so i think the worst is over.
she did go through a feverish period (100-101) for a couple of days,
but never acted droopy or anything, in fact she seemed much less affected
by the whole thing than I was!  i also got to sleep the night thru last
night, ummmmmm.  thlanks, all!

My doctor is Dr. Chamness, of child Health Associates, here in
Ann Arbor.  phone: 971-9344.

Yeah, both David and Tori were lactose-intolerant - Tori 
more so than David.  Both seem to have outgrown it, although
I am reliably told that it *will* recurr as they grow older.  Tori
still doesn't care for milk or cheese as much as David does - she's
part American Indian, sothe lactose intolerance is much more
a concern with ere  than it is with David.  I have to 
make sure to feed her calcium-rich foods, and not let her have
too much cheese.  We'll just watch her carefully for awhile, I guess.

Yeah, the price of lactose-free stuff is fierce.  You
also have to be careful, because some "milkless"
foods have casien in it,which is amilk protein...

Lis z, I hope your child is doing better.  If that chest
cold gets too much worse, it could go into pnemonia, although you
sound pretty aware and well educated about children's 
health issues.

Who was your midwife?  Was it in Dearborn?  If so, that may
be the same midwife clinic that saw Thea before Tori was
born - als as, in an emergency c-section; but oh, boy
was it a true emergency!  I thought very highly of Valerie.
Odd, I'm blocking on the name of the clinic...tired, I guess.

Thanks, Misty.  I guess I need to lighten up- Lactace usually does the job,
I just haven't wanted to confuse him.  Easier to "just say no", but I think
Timothy is old enough to understand "once in a while".  I'll work on it.

She seems to be back to normal today, although there were a few coughs last
night, so probably it will hang on a bit yet.  Yes, she was born at the Garden
of Life, luckily for both of us.  She was sucking her thumb when labor started,
and  that made it hard for her to move down the birth canal; she kept crowning
and  sliding back in...but Valerie and Rahima were patient, and her heartbeat
was  strong, so we finally made it.  If we had been in the hospital, we might
not have been so fortunate.  What a great experience!  My husband actually got
to pull her out and hand her to me...and my best girlfriend was there, too
(she's  considering studying midwifery...).  She was 8 lbs 11 oz and began
nursing within 10 minutes.  The first pains woke me at 5 am, we got to the
clinic at 11 am, she was born at 4 pm and i was home in bed at 9:30 pm, being
pampered by said friend and husband (altho he was probably in more of a dazy
than i was)   Somehow I just don't think a hospital experience would have been
right for me. I wanted a home birth, but my husband was afraid, so this was a
compromise.  I will go back again...

re 11, Kami:  HOw could a parent not take a child to the doctor when it
is obviously sick?  I couldn't take a chance with a child's health. If
you're unsure enough that you would ask for advice on a BBS, a trip to
the doctor would be in order. Fevers can be nasty in small children, and
a serious cough can mean any number of things.

Yesterday, a friend visited with her mother.  Her mother is(has?) a *doctor*
of nursing.  When I told her about Rosi, and what I had done, she seemed to
think it perfectly appropriate (perhaps because she is Swiss, she is less
prejudiced against homeopathy?).  She said that a fever of 101 is not in itself
a total indicator of when a child should see a doctor, but that the child's
demeanor, level of activity and energy, and frustration level, besides other
symptoms are also important.  She said that sick kids show it and their mothers
, if they are very aware of their child's behavior patterns, will *know*
when to call a doctor.  I neve felt that she really needed to see a doctor, or
I certainly would have taken her to one.  But, as I commented earlier, her 
behavior remained essentially normal, perhaps a slightly reduced energy level,
and she was only slightly cranky (perhaps in response to my own tension?)
And even though she had a slight congestion of the chest, she responded to
steaming.  
I feel that the opportunity to comment on Rosi's illness with the folks on

Grex has been a positive experience, much like chatting over the back fence
or around the kitchen table...unfortunately, I can't offer you all a piece of
my maple-walnut coffee cake:)  I am not so ignorant as to take every piece
of advice as medical gospel, and I must gently protest any implications of the
same.  And, I don't think that any of the kind folks who responded expected
to be taken any differently.  

Well, Rosi is fine today, although I've come down with whatever she had.  I
wish I would bear it with equally good humor!

Oops!  should read "...any implications to the contrary."  Well, obviously
I should read what I'm writing to see if it makes sense!  ;)

It may well be that she is perfectly fine, but that doesn't mean a visit
to the doctor still wouldn't be a good idea.  There are lots of illnesses,
especially at that age, that can come up  without the parent noticing them
at first.  What does she have to lose by going to a doctor, just for a
checkup?

Time, energy, money, the chance to keep those germs in the family
without picking up any more ...  (It's not as if the child *never*
sees a doctor, right?) 
        I've been generally very pleased with our pediatrician,
who always says CALL MY OFFICE IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.  So 
instead of talking to a neighbor or Grex, I call Dr Thorrez's 
office & talk to the nurse -- who usually says these
days that I might as well wait a while, treat the symptoms 
& see if it gets any worse, but they'll be happy to see
the child if it will relieve my mind. 
        Sometimes the most helpful thing is the statement "There's 
been a lot of that going around, it lasts about [x amount of time]" 
which can come with equal authority from a doctor or the "Grex back fence".

Well, I called the doctor's office to see if I should have done something
differently.  Spoke with the nurse; she said she would have told me to 
monitor the situation, etc., and call back if it had gotten any worse.  
She said there's not much that the doctor can do in the case of a mild
virus, anyway, except wait and see if it gets better or worse...which is
what I did.  She said it didn't seem like anything serious, but that since
this is my first child, she could see why I would call...and not to worry,
I did "fine".  
Although she didn't sound in the least put out by the call, I certainly
feel at this point that I did "fine", both in my book and the doctor's.

I should comment that Rosi and I spend all day, every day together, and 
she sleeps with us (except when she was sick, when she and I slept in
the little back room together, to avoid infecting my husband and because
it was easier to humidify.  I carried her around in a sling all day
from the time she was a few days old (well, I carried her whenever I
walked around *much*, which wasn't often the first few days), and when
she wasn't in a sling, she was in my arms or her father's.  This is just to
say that, although it might sound overconfident or even arrogant, I am
extremely sensitive to her physical and emotional state, and even the 
few times she's had a cold, I could predict she was going to be ill before
the first sneeze...she changed, and although I couldn't describe the change
in concrete terms to a doctor (in words that would make medical sense),
I *knew* something was out of the ordinary, and that she was not in her
usual state of physical health.  Does this sound too weird to be under-
stood?
And yes, exposing her to foreign (to our family) germs, perhaps of a more
serious nature, especially when she already had a mild illness, not to mention
spreading her germs around, definitely is a consideration when considering a 
visit to the doctor's office.  So I take her with a mild cold and some
child with chicken pox sneezes on her (or whatever).  Then the doctor
confirms my instincts by saying, "You could have just waited it out"...
then two weeks later, she has chicken pox?
I guess we each have to do what s/he thinks is best for our children,
given all the information we can gather by reading and listening to
the voices of experience, consult ourselves, what our instincts are 
telling us, and make a decision.  And, ultimately, it is each parent
who must be comfortable with the decision taken...
I am not personally against physicians, and I will take her to one
the VERY MOMENT, day or night, that I am convinced that it is in her
best interests to be seen medically.  As someone kindly commented near
the beginning, for a child of 15 months to have had only a couple of 
colds means that something must be right...at least for her.  I will
say, too, that one of the few advantages of living in the Cass Corridor
in Detroit is that the very well-respected Children's Hospital is
only 3 minutes from my front door.  I find it quite reassuring that
help in any emergency is so close, and I would certainly avail myself
if the needs arises.
I guess I believe that a child who is a healthy as she is, who still
derives a significant portion of her nutrition from breastmilk (with
all of its antibodies, one of the finest antibiotics, etc., known),
who demonstrated only a fairly low temperature (in children), chest
congestion that responded readily to home treatment, and id not
demonstrate lethargy or unresponsiveness, but continued to *do her 
usual thing*, would be perfectly able to fight off whatever it was in
her own way and time without any adverse effects.  And since I am her
mother and I know her better than anyone, I am the one most qualified to
make that initial judgment...and carry it through, provided the factors
contributing to that decision did not change.
For those folks who disagree, either with my choice or my philosophy,
I thank you for your concern, and I know you are responding with the 
best of intentions, and I appreciate the moderation with which you have
approach this debate.

This response has been erased.

Liz, I feel much the same, although I am apt to call the doctor in regard to 
colds just because it's often hard to pick just the right remedy.  On the
other hand, Timothy got burned by hot oil a week or so ago, and Michael had a
hard time with the fact that I didn't rush to call the doctor.  I knew what
had happened, what do do about it, etc. so I didn't see any need to bother 
him.  A bit of time and lots of calendula ointment later, all is well.  I don't
think there'll be any scarring or anything.  But I can see how it might be
scarey for someone who wasn't as sure of what they were looking at and what
to do.

I sometimes feel that I do more than my share of telephoning the
doctor for advice, because things come up on Friday afternoons,
and I think "What if I'm wrong?"  There's always somebody on call
during the weekends, but it's more of a bother for them.  And
there *was* one time when he told me I *should* have called,
though he didn't make a big deal out of it (when the baby
turned out to have pneumonia, with fever developing at bedtime,
and I fell asleep with baby still nursing while I tried to decide 
what to do).

Yup, why do kids always insist on getting sick on Friday evening?!  The 
pneumonia situation is the main reason I generally call about fevers and
cold-like stuff; I'm afraid I might not recognize a serious case from a simple.

The pneumonia (2 years ago, BTW) was a case where I should have
called even in the middle of the night, the doctor said, but they
did squeeze him into the appointment schedule fairly early the
next morning & the antibiotic worked quickly thereafter --
interesting that he didn't start to cough until convalescent.

Lungs too full to let him cough anything up?
My Tim will have a very mild cough and/or sniffle a day or two before he
gets sick- I usually wonder about it but fail to connect it with any actual
problem since it's the only symptom.  I think if I could react more decisively,
at least since we are using homeopathy, I might have a better chance of
finding the right remedy and heading off the rest of the cold.  On the other
hand, it's not like I'm in any hurry to have to practice...

back a couple of comments (didn't write doe wn the numbers): our dicotr
has a neat setup - one waiting room for sik ck kie ds, and one for the well
ones - less chance of catching something in addition to whatever brought you
in.

 think that , IMHO, a good mix between doctors, and experience, tossed in
with ideas o and comments from other mothers (ok, parents!) is the 
best way to go.  I find that talking with other people with kids is a 
great way to learn the stu t  ff that fu alls in between
the cracks of my personal experience and the doctor's ofice.  

I think our culture has lost a great deal with the diminuation of
the "neighborhood" or other mother's groups kinds of things.  We have
to go out of our way not   now to recreate that - and GREX
willdo, it will do - I dunno about any one else, but I've learned
a lot fom talking here...

BTW, Tori recently came down with a Coxacci (sp?) virus: main sympton
was a 105 degree fever.  it's not dangerous, but it did keep the poor
kid out for a week.  it's related to toe cold virus, and I guess there are 50
or 60 strains.

re: wierd viruses- scary, ain't it! Glad she's ok.
re: gcommunity and Grex- yup.  I htink kof the  people here as friends.

It's "Coxsackie", I believe -- I've read about them, in articles 
about summer illnesses, but this is the closest I've come to a 
diagnosed case.

Sunday we were out at a park all day and had a great time. Sunday night 
Patrick(twoyears, 11mo) started coughing ,gasping for breath and throwing 
up. The steamy shower didn't help much, but taking him outside in the night air
for a while(till we got cold) helped a lot! At least we were able to fall
asleep for an hour or so till it started up again. We took him to the Dr. and
were told that it was croup, Not to worry, It'll go away by itself in a few
days,  usually only comes on at night just to drive parents nuts! No problems
since  that one night.  |help

|help
help
!help
so, what's |help for anyway?

If you're in the Picospan text collector, it's :help, not |help or !help.
At Ok: or Respond or pass? it's just plain help.

Here is a late comment from a guy with 6 kids 11-20.  Three of my children
have asthma as I do.  both sides of family have history of asthma in the
family.  Frequent bouts of croup is an endicator that there may be a problem
with asthma.  As I understand it, a virus which cause the common cold in 
others causes croup in children.  If a viral infection as croup doesn't 
clear up in 3 days head for a doctor becasue a bacterial infection may 
have developed.  If respiratory problems are couple with a high fever take 
the kid to the doctor or EM it might be pnumonia (three of my kids have
had pnumonia so now I know what to look for).  Pneumonia is still a major
killer in the U.S.  Pneumonia is particularly hard to spot in very small
childrchildren because they don't complain when they have a fever.  Panting
with shallow breathing and a fever is a dead giveaway.  Biggest problem is
keeping fluids in them.

It is a scary situation and I have felt helpless many times.  Often being
without much money, we have learned that lots of things pass without
any intervention except keeping fluids in them and allowing them to get
plenty of rest.  Realizing the danger signals mentioned above will help
you avoid major problems (my son almost died of pneumonia at about 15months),
and a friend who believed in vegitarian diets and wholistic living had
one of his children die of pneumonia (very tragic since he didn't realize
how sick his child was and social services took him to court for neglect).

Antibiotics have an important role in saving the human being from many
of natures most efficient killers.  and if you are hesitant about
immunizations, check out the real risks and the danger your children
will contract the childhood disease in adulthood and preciptate an
epidemic at school because so many other children are not immune.  Suggested
reading would be "How We Die" by (forgot already) recently published anyway.

I have 3 kids, aged 9-2, and I'm expecting my 4th.  I have seen lots of
ailments which were more troublesome than serious.  I frequently talk
to my pediatrician's office, which even has evening hours and Sat hours for
us working stiffs who come home on Fri night to find the little one 
with a fever...

I too, nursed mine for a long time (#3 for 27 months) and was fortunate that
they were relatively healthy in the early months (well, the eldest, at least!)


HOWEVER, I think avoiding immunizations is not only a serious mistake, but
taking a chance with your child's life.  The risks associated with 
immunizations are slim, but many of the diseases they protect against
are killers.  Some, which appeared to be wiped out in this country,
have reentered with waves of immigrants.  If you have not had
routine TB tests along with immunizations you should be aware that it 
is now appearing in all types of communities.  Even if your child merely
goes shopping with you, then there are risks of exposure to many diseases.
As a toddler becomes more active, and prone to cuts and scrapes, remember
the tenanus vaccine.

I agree that pediatrician offices are wonderful sources of infection.  For
routine checkups/immunizationsI pick odd hours to go when there are fewer 
sick callslikely.  (I avoid Mon am and Friday pm!)  When the kids are sick, I
use the phone before I take them in the car...I can often determine with the
nurse or doctor whether to worry or not.

So, I'm a strong believer in Mom's intuition and doctor's advice, but 
we never skip our immunizations.

I also avoid medicine except where it will make a difference.  If it merely
treats symptoms, I usually don't care to use it (such as cough/cold remedies).
But if it really helpsthe kids, like a new chicken pox medicine, I use it
with pleasure...That one turned a miserable ailment into a tolerable
lazy week at home!

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