This is the item for discussing open adoption.  Who here has experience
(personal or approximate) with adoption?  With Open adoption?

24 responses total.

My sister gave up a child for adoption ten years ago.  It's an open
adoption, so she still sees her son regularly, and he knows that she is
his birthmother.  Over all, it's been a great relationship, and my
sister has become a big proponent of open adoption.  It's not for
everyone, but it certainly has worked out in her case.

If anyone wants more information, I'll have her write more about her 
experience and post it here.

This is a shared login name: I am Becca: comments to me will get to me
no matter which one of us checks the BBS that day...

I am an adopted mom of two children, half-sibs in a very open
adoption.  Our intent is to have the kids grow up knowing their 
birth mother, too, as in the situation Dan described.  I would *love* to have
the benefit of any advice your sister cares to share, Dan.  (I understand from
Misti Delaney that we have other things in common, Dan - mabe we should get
together off line?)

For the record, my kids are Davi (3) and Tori (2).  Their birth mother
moved up to A2 from Kentucky in part to be near the kids,
and in part because in visiting she fell in love with the place.

I, myself, was adopted. (Not open)  Personally I am glad I didn't go through
an open adoption.  Yes, I've always been curious as to the WHY of my adoption,
however, I've NEVER wanted to know who my biological "parents" are.  My parents
are my parents, and whoever gave me up for adoption didn't want or couldn't
want me then, so why would they now?  I hope no one takes offense, this is just
my opinion and experience.  I *hate* the term biological PARENT, giving birth
does not constitute parenthood in my opinion, let alone mother/father.  Now
that I have had a baby I understand the sacrifice one would have to make, but
I feel that if a person chooses to give a child up, let that child go!  And
the only other way my husband and I plan to have another child is to adopt,
(because it's important to me...too many kids need love) I would be highly
offended having someone else butting into my son or daughter's life.  I'm
curious to hear more from others, perhaps then I could understand people on
either end of an open adoption?

This response has been erased.

I'll second that.  Feel free to establish separate accounts.

Becca,  I'd be happy to meet with you.  How about lunch sometime?  Send
me some e-mail or call me at 930-6564.

re #3: My sister never uses the term biological parent; she's a
birthmother.  There is a chance that birthparents will try to meddle
in the affairs of the adoptive family.  That's why it is important for
birthparents to get the appropriate counseling.  In my sister's case
this is definitely not a problem--the child lives in Traverse City and
the distance has certainly had a positive effect in this regard.

 ah at last, my own account.  nice to be here in my own persona,
re #3, I am about as biological as I can get,even if I didn't give
birth to my kids - we, too, use the term birthmother for Thea

Actually, Dan, I don't think that counseling is *always* necessary -m 
Thea and I get along pretty well without it  Onn the other hand,
we are both of an age (40-ish) and prretty psychologically
sophistocated in ourselves  We do have a few rules we follow, but in
trying to explicate them, they come across as the same basic rules for
any relationship.  The one exception is that of roles.  In my marriage,
we have flexible roles; in my rl elationship with Thea, we have very firm
roles  delineations:  she is their birth mother, and nothing can ever change
that relationship that she has with the kids and I don't.  On the other
hand,I am*clearly* their mother, a role that Thea can't ever fill 
either.  We respect each other, and the unique role e we each play
in the children's lives.  I think that that's what makes our relationship
work.

Kim, the adoption wasn't intended to be as open as it turnedout to be.  
Neither of us figured that we would get along so welll together
as individuals, or  .  I think that Thea's original intent
after David was born was to put the birth behind her and go on with
her life.  Some other time (when I have a fi lippin' keyboard that I
can type on - I'm borrowing a friend's portable) if you are interested,
I'lltell  you the story.

I do realize that our situation is unique (even our social worker is
a bit freakedout by how close we are and how well it's working) however,
and this open a relationship is far beyond what is usually meant
by "open adoption."

Has any one out there seen a book called "A Mother for Choco?"  It's a 
charming story about adoption - but very subtily, not at all
o preachy, like "the Mulbury    Mulberry Bird" is.

Becca, what exactly are those roles you state are clearly defined?  It seems
all very confusing to me  (and it would seem to children also).  Also, I 
can't say I've seen the book, but as a baby I was given a book called "The
Chosen Baby" which explained adoption to me and made me very proud to be a
chosen baby myself.  When my brother and sister-in-law adopted a baby 3 years
ago I managed to find the new edition for their chosen baby!  (Not as good as
the original in my opinion, but still installs that sense of pride I hope!)

It seem to me that, as with any other life decision, adoption, open or closed
depends entirely on the personalities of the people involved.  Sometimes
adoption is, no doubt, a rejection on the part of birth mother, but
at least as often, it's a conscious decision, made from love, that others
woulod be able to parent the child better than the birth mother could.
When that's the case, a loving birthmother may very well feel better
about the adoption if she can know for sure that the baby is doing
well with with its chosen family.

Adoption, from the parents' point of view, has as many complicated
issues as does choosing to have a child in any other way.  There may
also be other issues arising from any guilt/despair that might
come up if the reason for the adoption was infertility.  Depending
on the reasons and on the personality of the parents, open adoption
could either be a shared joy and a bond with the woman who made parenthood
possible or a chafing reminder that the child was "chosen" (I love that
way to phrase it, thanks, Kimba) not "spawned".

On a purely pragmatic perspective, the adopted child can "d can ask why th
adoption happened instead of wondering all his/her life.  And since the birth
mother wouldn't be an unknown, she also wouldn't hold the same power for 
fantasy and unrealistic  daydreamsthat might cause a youngster to go off in
search of a romantic past.

It seems like a good option, though at a guess, I might find myself too
possessive to really handle it well from either end.

;)

Misti -- a fortunate birth mother who got to raise both babies.

re #7:  Do you prefir "kimba", Kimberly, or Kim?

you asked a really good question about what our various roles are.  It seems to
me that we understand them ourselves, but we really haven't actually put
*words* to our ideas yet.

I could go off sorta on what I think, but what I'd rather do is take some time
to think about it, and to run my ideas past the kid's birth
mother, to make sure that we agree amoung ourselves first,and that I 
don['t misrepresent her views.

I do know that, in the past, she has been rather more
fearful than I haave been about the kids getting
confused.  

The book is "a mother for Choco" by Keiko Kasza (originally published in
Japanese!)  1992, G.P. Putnam's Sons.  is an excellent book!

Question: is anyone out there looking to adopt, or considering being a birth
mother?  Are there any birth fathers out there reading this?

In "everyday life" I prefer Kimberly...or Kimba...but never Kim!
I read a review of that book, as well as a few others in a magazine several
months back.  It was noted as one of the best.  I'd be interested in reading
it, just to see for myself.  I'd really like to hear what both you and the
"Birth mother" have to say about roles, emotions both before and after the
adoption, and what exactly made both of you decide up open adoption.

thea here, putting in my two cents worth...for me, our (Becca's and mine) roles
are - at this point, at least, finally - quite clear - i am their mother, but
she is their MOMMY, and no one (not even Daddy/Chris) can take over in that
capacity.  That's for our roles concerning the kids.  Our relationship goes
much farther and deeper than that.  We half jokingly refer to ourselves as
"twin sisters of different mothers", and our relationship as women is in fact
very sisterly. And, the five of us have formed a family unit, becoming
"voluntary relatives" It is, for me, the type of family relationship i had
always believed possible, but was never able to share with my blood kin.  It is
a family based on love and mutual respect rather than a sense of obligation; we
are a family because we WANT to be, rather than because we have to. re #3: Kim,
are you being entirely honest when you say you NEVER wondered about the "why"
of your adoption? Your assumption that whoever "gave you up" (i HATE that term)
"didn't or couldn't want you then" ma y be valid, but it most likely is not. 
An unwanted pregnancy is the most difficult experience a woman goes through;
whatever decision the woman makes (abortion, adoption, active motherhood, or
whatever), it is one she must live with every day for the rest of her life. Her
responsibility to her child may demand that she relinquish the right to raise
him/her, so that the child may have a chance to live the life she feels they 
deserve.  It is not an easy decision.  i think it is even harder when you have
to then turn your back on the event and deny the child's very existance,  as is
demanded in a closed adoption.  Open adoption is not best for everyone but i
personally feel it has the potential (if explored by the involved parties) of
providing the best possible family for the child(ren).

Sorry for the inadvertant "Kim", Kimberly!


What made us decide on "open" adoption?  for me, it was easy - the 
adoption agency said that more birth mothers wanted an open
adoption of some form, and so the waiting
list was shorter.  My goal was to have a child, and I was willing to put
up with almost anything the birthmother might have asked.  Infertility
and infertility treatments were hell on my relationships and on
my health, and the prospect of not having a child in my life
was unthinkable.  In extremity, one does what one must.

As it turned out, I gained not just two children, but a friend!
Some are unwarrentedly lucky.

Emotions before adoption?  I have a 3 page essay I wrote
in tohose days that says what it was like -  too long to download
here, I think.  Misti says she will help me put it in a separate file
for you, if you would like.

lets just say that the agency and what ever rules thy choose
to impose wind up running your life.  One gets terribly inot
wanting to please an all-powerful "them."

What was it that made us open the adoption?  The story in very brief
form is this:  David was 5 weeks premature, very small, (4 lbs 10 oz)
and his lungs and heart weren't quite formed yet.  He was born in Thea's 
bathtub (that's her part of the story to tell) and was about 10 minutes old 
before help arrived.  Eventually, he was hput in the NeoNatal Intensive
Care Unit (NICU).  This is in a southern hospital, and the 
doctors were very punative, both about the circumstances
of his birth, and about the child being placed for adoption.  Looking
back, I can see that they must have wondered if this was a a black
market adoption, since there was no social worker or lawyer in 
evidence, just Thea and me.

For example, one doctor said to me "if God had wanted you to have
children, he would have given you one."  

The punativeness was expressed in a lot of ways - from denying us
access to the baby to threatening to call the DSS and have the child taken
away from us.  They also wanted to cut into him in the worst
way: open heart surgery was suggested for a benign condition
that affects a lot of kids, and is usually resolved by the end of the first
year.

Thea and I had to fight together for our child.  We had to convince
David that he was loved and wanted, so he would survive the crisis that
came wabout 48 hours after birth.  We had to fight the damn doctors
and the "system" there.  That's a powerful bonding experience in itself.

Then we had to fight the adoption agency, who wanted to put 
David in a foster home while the adoption processed.  Then we had to fight
a very nasty judge .

It turned out that we had a lot in common, and that we liked
each other for ourselves.  Bango, I got
another relative for free!  Love it, love her, love the kids.

What more could anyone aslk?  (two burgers and an order of fries.!)

sorry about the jumble - my typing gets erratic when I feel
strongly about something.

Dan, can you feed copies of this discussion to your sister if
she doesn't have access?  I'd *love* this to be more of a conversation
than a soap-box speach!

--Becca

Thea, I didn't mean to imply I don't wonder about the "why" of my adoption,
I most certainly do.  I don't think a child could be adopted and not wonder
that.  I'd like to know what the situation was (though considering it was
a 1967-68 pregnancy I can make reasonable assumptions...Summer of Love after
all!), I'd like to know my nationality, and since it was discovered during
my pregnancy last summer I have a genetic health concern, my medical history.
What I do not want to know is the woman who actually gave birth.  I could 
never have any feelings (except animosity) toward her, and that wouldn't be
fair to anyone.

I think its great that you and Becca have a sisterly-type relationship.  Most
people can't say that of their own sisters!  And I appreciate the struggle you
both went through for the baby.  It takes alot of courage on everyone's part
to fight the system especcially in an adoption situation.  However, I still
don't understand what roles you each play in the children's lives.  You say
Becca is Mommy, you are mother.  This seems to unclear to me for as a new 
parent myself, I see myself as both.  To me, "mother" represents knowledge,
understanding, rules, discipline; "mommy" represents tenderness, healing,
playful, confidant.  They are inclusive to one another.  Perhaps you both can
find a way to explain and define those roles better for me.

BTW, you don't sound soap-box preachy Becca.  I find what all of you have to
say fascinating.  But I would like others input as well!

Yes, Becca - thanks for the fillin.  I had trouble understanding your earlier
post (too much missing background), & this made it all make sense.

I was adopted by my maternal grandfather and his second wife.  I know every-
thing about it and always have.  Originally, my mom (step-grandmother, I 
suppose) tried to get me to call Jodi (biological mother) "mommy", but it 
didn't work.  After I was 2 1/2 and my folks were given official custody of
me, they gave up on that effort.  My mom worked really hard to convince me t
that I "wasn't born under [her] heart, but in it".  In some ways, she tried 
too hard, and I ended up feeling that her desperate need for a child and all
the dreams pinned on me were a burden.  The other problem is that she has a
lot of anger toward Jodi for many reasons, and had some fear of Jodi trying
to feed me inaccurate and possibly harmful notions, so she told me far too
much.  It's hard not to feel that, if my biological mother is a bad person,
perhaps I am like her.  Nonsense, of course, but pretty powerful nonsense and
hard to get past.  Actually, as a sort of distant relative, Jodi isn't all that
bad.  She sends my kids birthday gifts (eventually- I guess I come by my

chronic lateness honestly....<g>) and me the occasional note.  I'm a notoriousl
bad correspondent, but I think some of my sloppiness in this case has to do
with ambivalence about establishing a new relationship with someone who has
made a hash of her entire life and who has a history of sowing dissention 
between people.  So in general, I'm glad to know where I came from and to have
met Jodi both as a kid and as an adult, but I wish it could have been free of
baggage.  That's asking an awful lot, I suppose.

I would like to adopt at least one child myself some day, sort of a karmic
repayment.  On the other hand, it's really neat seeing Michael and myself in
our boys.  I wonder how much of that is seeing what we expect to see.  After
all, mom and I always get a bang out of people telling us how we look alike...

Roles, more precise definition of...ho, boy!  Thea and I are still in
the middle of trying to define them...mostly we make them up as we go 

along, and then try to figure out what we did and whether it worked.

more later, as Thea and I get the right words together.  This is the
sort of thing where I want to make *very sure my words say what I mean.

Re-reading this whole thing, Ineed to make a couple of things clearer.

Thea and I do have clearly defined roles, but we have never put
words to them before - we are going on instinct, really.
I think the best way to put it is that Thea is their birth-mother, had
her place in the childrne's lives is to supply them with roots and
background, and family history.  My role is mommy: I am helping the 
children create their own histories, helping them grow toward the
future.  How this will change as the kids grow is anybody's guess.

BTW, the May/June issue of Adoptive Families (formerly OURS magazine) has
some *great* articles on the changing needs of children re: adoption
as they pass through developmental stages.  Some good books, too.'

Kimba, have you read "Growing Up Adopted"?  If so, what do you think of it?

No I haven't read it.  Perhaps I'll look around for it?

kimba...i can't help but notice a bit of animosity in your emotional response
to your birthmother..being a peer, perhaps i can lend some insight to the
psychological/emotional dynamic... for all that the late 60s were a time of
unres for all that the late 60s were a time of unrestrained enthusiasm, they
were still in large part goverened by the social and legal codes of the
50s...we were not ready for all the freedoms we were expected to embrace, and
some of had a darn hard time of one one expected to be a free and autonomous
female, and still be a "good" girl.it was asituation with basically mutual
exclusive roles we were expected to be part of the "Free love" generation, but
to not have to deal with the realities and implications of the situation we had
thrown ourselves into - like unplanned pregnancies we didn't really have anyone
to go to when we did "get into trouble" - our mothers didn't want to know,
abortion was illegal (unless you were rich and could go out of the country or
buy a doctor), and we were confused and scared and had only ourselves to depend
on.  A lot of us ended up being untrained (although we learned REALLY fast)
counccellors, midwives and such... the system was not set up to handle what
happened, and there was no good way to deal with an unwanted pregnancy - you
were made to feel guilty for fulfilling cultural expectations, and there was no
real support group. we did the best we could. admittedly, it was often none too
good. i personally find it sad that you have such scorn for a woman who was
trying to give you a cahnce at a decent life... sorry to be so brutal, but the
reality of the situation is not all that nice... the situation that becca and i
find ourselves in is one that has evolved over time; it has taken a lot of work
and thought, and more courage and honesty than i knew i was capable of before
all this happened... we have conciously, willfully, deliberately, created our
own family structure. it is not something that everyone could do; infact, i
doubt, if the situation had been different, we would have been able to.   but
we have. and the five of us make a fine - if somewhat non-standard - family...
and, that, ultimately, is the important thing.... q

You are absolutely correct in stating my animosity Thea, but please don't think
I don't have a great deal of respect for your situation.  I think it is
wonderful you can have just an honest and open relationship.  I understand
and know of the situations involving unplanned pregnancies in the 60s, and I
would thank the woman who gave birth to me for the wonderful family I have.
I am grateful I didn't grow up unloved or unwanted or in a difficult situation.
For these reasons I wish more people gave their children up for adoption rather
than keeping them in bad situations.  Whether the adoption is open or closed,
the important fact is the children are wanted and loved.  My 6 1/2 month old
was a VERY unplanned pregnancy, so I understand the anger, hurt, confusion
surrounding the surprise child.  

re #20 - I don't understand your statement "I don't have a lot of
respecr  t for your situation."  Kimba, could you expand
more on that
Also, Kimba, i would be interested (if you would choose
to share with me) in why wyou said you would only
feel a great deal of animosity for your birth
mother if you met her.  This concerns me, since I want
David and Tori to grow up loving and respecting Thea, while not
necessarily th feeling that they have to validate her life and
choices by re-creating or reliving them.  On the other hand, 
I don't want them to feel that they have to validate *my* live either.

Oops, Becca- I read Kimba's sentence as "DON'T think I don't have...", or a
double negative meaning she DOES have respect for...
Doesn't sound like your situations are in any way analogous.

Oh, by the way, Becca and Thea: we didn't find the other modem yet, but 
Michael realized that his spare terminal (old, green, dumb, but it works) is
 compatible with any modem using a standard cable.  If you'd prefer that one,
Thea, we can arrange it when we get back from Starwood.  See ya!

Kami was correct Becca, I meant the statement to say I do have a great deal
of respect for your situation.  I'm sorry for the misunderstanding!

Why would I feel animosity?  I suppose because I've always believed that when
you start something you finish it.  You don't give up or let go.  This isn't
coming out right...It's very difficult to find the words to express a feeling
that can only be felt by someone adopted.  There is no word for that emotion.
Please forgive me for not being able to answer this as I thought I'd be able 
to.  Maybe if I think if over more, I can answer properly later. 

sorry - it's been very tired out lately, and since I don't have a modem, 
I have to do this catch as catch can.

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