This is intended to continue a thread from another item (the high-school one).
Here's what has been entered so far.  If you have any input on home schooling,
as a parent/teacher or as a student, we'd like to hear about it.

>#90 You Wish (wish) (Wed, Apr 20, 1994 (19:47)):
> my mom wants to start working again, so I will have to go to a "real" school
> in the fall, unless my mom changes her mind. I don't think I'm going to get
> into Community, and Pioneer really scares me. My parents don't want to pay
> for private schooling because it would be cheaper for my mom to do it
> herself. I talked to indi, and he suggested Huron valley. is Huron valley
> a high school? is it expensive?
> 
>#91 Valerie Mates (popcorn) (Thu, Apr 21, 1994 (06:11)):
> Are you doing home schooling now?  Do you like it?  Is it a good alternative
> for most people?  Do you miss having classmates?  Do you feel you're getting
> a good education?  Why did your family choose home schooling?
> 
>#92 Dave Lovelace (davel) (Thu, Apr 21, 1994 (09:41)):
> I too would be interested in your answers to all those questions.  Also to
> anything you can say that might be relevant for parents considering home
> schooling.  (Your viewpoint on your parents' viewpoint, so to speak.)
> 
> In fact, in the hope that we can get enough response to make hijacking the
> high-school item a problem, I'm going to add an item for this one topic.
> If you'd be good enough to expound at length, please answer in (I think)
> item 43.

53 responses total.

I admit to particular interest as we have a first-grader and another coming
to that point in a couple of years.  My own perception is that home schooling
is generally excellent, partly because those willing to go through with
it are knowledgeable & motivated people, but that it is a ***lot*** of work.
Even though you only have one or two (or 3 or 4 or ... ) to teach, it's
a full-time job; and then there's the bureaucratic interface with the state
to worry about.  But I haven't done it myself, and would like more info.
Anyone?

Home schooling could be quite annoying to the victim... uh... I mean...
Student.

I had always figured I'd home-school my kids if their personalities and/or
abilities warranted it, but in actual practice I don't think I have the
patience.  There are so many ages at which a kid is likely to listen to 
anyone BUT mom and dad...
Anyway, I had always imagined working with at least one other home-schooling
family so that a.) the kids were not isolated, b.) we could pool our talents
and interests so the kids got a positive view of all subect areas and 
c.) to keep from throttling the kids when they were busily pushing all of
mom's buttons.
I worry about people home-schooling for the "wrong" reasons: to limit their
kids' exposure to other points of view or ways of living, rather than in
order to give them the richest possible range of experience.  This could
lead to serious cultural polarization in the worst case, and in other cases,
kids who really aren't prepared for real life.
But I still think it's a neat idea if one is capable and creative enough.

Patience is definitely a big issue for this.

smalls 43 is now linked to genx 24.

re #3:
I have a family member who home schooled his kids for just those negative
reasons.  I believe he wanted to limit their exposure to outside perspectives
because he is afraid that they would pick up ideas to challenge his strict
religeous teachings.

I'm pretty sure I would never want my kids to be home-schooled, and I'm glad
I wasn't.

Maybe the school setting is good.  Meeting and dealing with others is, for
sure, a skill needed to LIVE today.

BUT there are situations that warrant keeping kids OUT of school.  Medical
problems (broken legs, disease, etc) where maybe homework could be done
WITH the other students over a computer.

I think teaching kids math, literature, arts, history, and the like should
be left to those who specialize in such subjects and those who LEARNED how
to TEACH.  Other valuable skills should be taught at home.  Street smarts,
cooking, personal finance, laundry, shopping (yes, shopping), and
mechanical understanding are all things that can be taught by those NOT in
a school setting.  I know *I* didn't learn to change my oil from school. 
..OR how to wash clothes.  ...OR how to know when my pancakes are done. 
Know what I mean?

I know a little about 2 parents who home schooled.  In one case, the
child for some reason was *miserable* in school -- a very friendly,
vivacious child, maybe she just couldn't adapt to that teacher's  
preferred style.  They kept her out about a year & a half, I think.
In the other case, they wanted to send their kids to a particular
Christian school but couldn't afford it.  After a year or so of home 
schooling they settled on a different school that didn't cost as much -- 
and in the interim one of the children, who had been seriously behind in
arithmetic, more than caught up to his grade level. His home teacher
was primarily his mother, totally un"qualified" as a teacher (no college
education at all).

IMHO education degrees are highly overrated.

right.  it's what you do with one that matters.

re #10:  IMHO, *most* degrees are highly overrated.

I think the best "solution," if you are truly concerned about public
schools, is to do what mythago's parents did -- start your own school.
Costs are shared, and you get a professional teacher in charge.  (They
went with Montessori.)

Re #12:
- agreed very strongly with your first point
- on starting your own school: this at least takes a certain kind of
  personality, willing and able to pour work into organizing things (as
  opposed to *doing* them).  There are many such people, & I don't fault
  them in any way at all; but certainly I personally am not such a person.
  If getting anything done requires *my* motivating & coordinating other
  people, it's guaranteed not to get done.  (Of course, you may well find
  other people already starting a school.)

  The advantages you mention are certainly real, though; although there are
  probably added costs as well as sharing of the existing ones.

i used to home-school, until i moved to florida, but when i was i thought is
er...it ok.

re #13:  It takes "a certain kind of personality" to home school properly,
         as well.  I didn't say it was for everybody, but I do believe it
         is a better alternative.  Hey -- if you can gather a bunch of
         parents and make it a group effort, the initial steps may not be
         as hard as you imagine.

         Added costs, of course, include the financial.  No professional
         school will be as potentially inexpensive as a home school.

        re #15, re #13 -- "gather a bunch of parents and make it a group 
effort" is exactly the initial steps that davel was labeling as
impossible.  Make  that "If you happen to fall in with a bunch of
parents ..." & it might befcome possible.
        Anyway, if I wanted to homeschool in the Ann Arbor area, I
would consult Clonlara.

I hope, in that case, that davel doesn't want my sympathies.

<Warning Warning School Advertisement Warning Warning>
Well if you want to learn more about some of the advantages of homeschool,
and if it is right for you and your family, call Clonlara School Home Based
Education Program, at 769-4511. If you live in the Ann Arbor area and are 
worried about your childs social life, but still think that "normal" schools
are not for you, ask about Clonlara's Campus School, call at 769-4511, the
school is K-12, Tuition is currently set $3,500 per year. Either way it 
allows you to expand your child's education, and get away from "normal" schools
<Thank you for your time> 

FYI I am currently enrolled in Clonlara at the Campus School, and this being
my first year, I must say I had a great time. Because of Clonlara I was able
to do things I would never have thought of doing at public school. This year
alone we went to Japan, for two weeks, and then with our Japanese friends we
travled in the U.S. for two more weeks. I really encourage anyone who wants
to learn, but not have to put with some of the requirements of public school.

        People either involved in homeschooling, interested in it, or
just not completely happy with what's available now, might be interested
in a new charter public school.

        It's called Noah Webster Academy, and will be serving students
K-12 throughout Michigan.  With the funding received from the state
(it's a charter public school, remember) they will purchase curriculum
materials, plus a computer for every two students in a given family.  
Much of the instruction will take place by modem; the teachers are
certified, I'm sure.  Let's see, what else did I hear . . . Oh, yes,
the costs of instruction will come nowhere near to the per pupil 
subsidy, since overhead costs are so low. So the remainder will be 
available to the family for educational expenses, such as field
trips, software, etc.  There's been some talk that whatever is left
will be put into an escrow fund for the student's post-secondary
education expenses, but I can't remember if that's certain or just
at the discussion stage.  It sure sounded intriguing to me -- very
creative, and a great thing for the right family.  We're just not
the right family.

This sounds fascinating...where do I write to find out more?

This response has been erased.

Where do I write to get on the curriculum committee?!  Neatness!

I read in the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday that this school is run  by
the religious right and will teach creationism alongside evolution, among
other things.  Tell me it's not so!!!

This response has been erased.

Bummer!

I'm a newcommer to this discussion.  I 've got w kids (ages 2 & 3)
so I've got some time yet before making a decision, but I'm
not at all happy with our local district.  Home schooling is
one option, and the Steiner school is another.  

Is any one familiar with the core curriculum?  

I was home schooled for one year, for obscure reasons.  I had a great
time, because I got to sleep in later than ordinary schools would allow
me, and because I usually finished my work in just an hour or two (this was
elementary school level), leaving me with the rest of the day as my own.  
I learned at least as much as the other children in my grade, because I 
was significantly ahead of them when I came back.

Yup, that's the usual experience of kids who are homeschoooled.  Amazing
what a little individual attention can do for learning!

(I happen to have known Greg's folks, and consequently him a little, at around
the time in question.  It's only fair to say that he's probably a good bit
brighter than average.  But I suspect Misti's right anyway.)

he's not so much brighter then average (which is a myth) as he has developed
his mental faculties better.  amounts to the same thing, tho.  maybe home
schooling helped?

I think your idea of what's average may be higher than mine, Dan.  Most of
the development would have been too late to affect my view of the matter,
but you have more grounds for an opinion than I do.

Regarding home schooling, I suspect that most any bright, well-educated
parent with the time to do it can probably do better than most schools
from a purely academic viewpoint (given access to curricula & all that).
I suspect many parents would nonetheless do better leaving it to others -
um, that's not right - I mean leaving the *fulltime* teaching to others.
The experience of teaching my wife to drive was a humbling one, making it
no surprise to me later to find that I personally don't have the patience
to try to direct kids in such an intense manner day in & day out.  I
don't really think Grace would be the best choice, either (for similar
reasons).  OTOH, there are professional teachers out there who are in the
wrong line of work, to say the least.  Some people I've known have had
kids whose teachers were (to be blunt) cruel and sadistic to an extreme
degree, and have had great difficulty getting the school system to even
admit that there was any problem, much less to do anything about it.  If
I were faced with such a situation, given that we couldn't possibly
afford private schools, I'd be strongly inclined to go for home
schooling.

for what it is worth, it is my opinion that "average" is a myth.  at
least, what we consider average, only learning 75% of the material.
it is in almost *all* students to do better than this, with sufficiant
encouragement, and suficiant care from the teachers.

        There are certainly good teachers and bad teachers, and having a
bad teacher can be a very unpleasant experience.  Still, there are reasons
for being in school rather than homeschooled that have absolutely nothing
to do with the teacher.  The biggest one, IMO, is the exposure to other
kids, which is very important to building social skills, as well as so the
kids can have some fun.  This is not to say that home schooled kids have
no intereactions with other kids their age.  One homeschooled kid I used
to know, for example, had a group of other home schooled kids who he went
on weekly field trips with.  Still, it's not the same as being with the
other kids several hours a day, five days a week.  And even if the parents
do a very good job of finding other kids to play with the home schooled
kid, it still won't be the same.  It's always been very helpful to me to
learn how to deal with the large variety of kids in school, and I know
*my* parents could never have found me such a diverse crowd.  A lot of
these kids who were so interesting, and who gave me really different
perspectives on things, were kids whose parents had nothing in common with
my parents and would not have been likely to meet them.

This is a criticism commonly leveled at home schooling.  Every time I've ever
heard a home-schooled kid asked about it (that is, after the fact) the answer
has been that this was not a problem at all.  I have no hard data, but I've
heard former home-schooled people asked about it probably several dozen
times, & not one ever gave it the slightest weight.

re #33: I went to a large public high school (Ann Arbor High pre split into
Huron and Pioneer) and yeah, out of 900 odd students, I found  maybe
4 or 5 others who were sympatico.  No, i would not have
missed that experience at all.  Maybe in a school like Clonlara
the percentage of people I could *talk* to would have been higher.

I think that the "socialization" most kids pick up in public schools
is exactly what we and our kids _don't_ need.  How to be cruel,
judgemental, rude, and how to burp on command are the the social
skills to die for in the third grade.  They don't add much to the
general quality of life in these United States.  

Children who are home-schooled generally have more and more sophisticated
relationships with people in their communities than do "public school kids". 
That is far superior, in my opinion as a method of socialization.  In the end
its adults we have to get along with in life -- learning to hold your own in a
crowd of under-disciplined terrors-in-tennis-shoes is a survival skill that
won't do much for you past the 9th grade.

I'm pretty opinionated about the "socialization" argument for public
school education--because I remember how miserable *I* was dealing with
the kids in my schools when I was a kid.  And I saw how miserable my kids
were in their dealings with the kids at their public schools.  There
is no doubt in my mind that at least one of my kids would have dropped
out of high school had he been forced to complete his education in the
public schools.  He's been in a small private school for some  years now
and is doing much better, both academically and socially.

        Learning how to get along with the young kids can be healthy,
though, as well as building the coundation for people to later learn how
to get along with adults.  Remember, all those adults they will have to
get along with eventually were kids, most of them in public schools, once.
I know I had problems with it at times, but there must be some reason kids
act like that.  I haven't figured it out exactly, but I'd imagine at some
point the kids start having the ability to make abusive comments but don't
yet have the ability to sense whether they are appropriate.  It's a normal
part of growing up.  Yes I complained about how people treated me in
elementary school, but I think I probably treated the other kids just as
badly, even though I would never have admitted it.  Still, I think being
tormented by other kids in my elementary school was a very useful
expeience.  People have to learn how to deal with rejection and hostility
sometime.

This response has been erased.

neither place did that for me.  they taught us to run to the authority
with a better lie...

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