Some genxers are young enough to remember being children and
old enough to be articulate -- a marvelous resource for puzzled
parents like myself.  What words of advice can you offer for anyone
raising children now, who has the good sense to listen to you?  What
pitfalls might we avoid, what landmarks look out for, what good rules

83 responses total.

        This item is linked, genx 15 to smalls 40.
        The last line got lost; the sentence was supposed to end
"what good rules [might we] try to follow?"

offer freedom, but make sure that your children know that guidance is
available.  In other words, let them make their own decisions, but do
your duty to make sure that they are informed.

Treat your children as people and not as objects. Don't ever say "Your MY
child".

Ahh, the old "your children are not your own" thing.  An excellent piece from
"The Prophet" by Kalil Gibran.  
        Also excellent guidance in dealing with the fruit of thy loins.

"Never give a Saxon an Even break,"
        _Hagar the Horrible's Very Nearly Complete Viking Handbook_

Help them to be self-assured (self-esteem is *really* important - lack of it
leads to a lot of problems) - also, help them to get "in touch" with the world
at a young age.  Some parents like to hold on to their kids until they get
older, then they "release" them into the real world... kind of a shock.

Teach responsability and respect for others from the very first.  Children
need to start making decisions as soon as possible so they can be experienced
at it when those decisions start to really affect them.  You will not always
be there to guide (or control) them, so you must teach them to guide themselves
well.  Note however, that the above is not the same as leaving children to
their own devices.  You must provide help and guidance, but do not tell 
them what to think or how to feel.  Remember that children are real people
not some other kind of beings.  Try to remember how you felt as a child
be guided by the memories of those feelings.  They are not invalid just 
because you were younger when you felt them.  Even though you are now a 
parent and an "adult", you are not so far from childhood yourself.  You should
be able to relate if you are willing to try.

I don't know why, but I tend to assume that people who are extremely intolerant
of children in public places must have been horrible brats- why else would 
they have evidently forgotten they were ever kids?

I think parents who take babies to movies are child abusers in a light
sense of words.  They also annoy other viewers when the baby cries.  I
think no child under the age of 5 should be taken to movies, or shopping
with his (I don't like gender specifics, but I want to be grammatically
correct.) parents.  For the Gods' sakes get the kid a baby sitter!

Depends on the movie.  I actually enjoyed watching a kid react to Fantasia
near me in the theater.

Well, babies at movies are a definate no no.

Re #7 -- I often try to go by that philosophy, on my better days.
Unfortunately, as time goes by, my almost-forty-year-old memories are
less helpful because my children are so *different* from what I was
like as a child (not only in their sex).  I want to respect them as
they are (7 & 3 years old at the moment), and this is difficult when 
their behavior makes so little sense to me, but they probably feel
the same way about me!

Give the children freedom to explore.  Be careful that they don't get 
seriously hurt, but don't be overprotective.  I had the pretty much complete
run of my neighborhood when I was five, a thought that many parents would
cringe at.  However, nothing bad ever happened, and I gained a lot of 
confidence in the process.  I would imagine that it is probably that parenting
style that allows me to be so independant today.

unfortunately, the drawback to such freedom at such a young age is that 
young children are especially easy targets for random criminal activity,
not all of which the child is capable of avoiding.  we live in an era of
violence and danger much greater than even when I was small, and also greater
than when scg was five. (I'm 24)  

I started taking Timothy out with us at the age of 2 weeks- no reason for me
to be imprisoned just because I have a kid; it's not a disease.  Of course,
Michael and I each saw about half of many performances because we had to take
turns walking the baby.  At some ages, Timothy would just sleep through a movie
but at others he wanted to "talk" to the screen so we didn't take him them.
Not everyone has money for or access to competent babysitting.
If you don't start socializing/ bringing out little ones quite early, they get
to be at least 5 before you can take them out at all.  With the other approach,
as I say, you only miss out on small periods.  Of course, you DO have to be
aware of, responsive to and responsible for your own kid to make it work...

Both neighborhoods I lived in at age five were safe neighborhoods, and the one
in Ann Arbor still is (I don't know anything about the present state of the
neighborhood I lived in in Palo Alto).  As with anything, use good judgement.
./

I can't bear to teach my kids to fear their world- I'd rather do my best to
protect them and put them in safe situations so they can be free to explore.
Timothy, at 4, is allowed to go into our yard alone or to ride his bike on this
side of the block alone.  By the end of the summer I hope he will be able to
go around the block or cross to the next block alone, but he does tend to be
fairly cautious.  I wish we lived where I could send him into a corner store
to get a specific item or two; I think he'd love the adventure/responsibility.

Make sure that the child is not overprotected nor
taught to fear the world that he or she lives in.
It's all a balance between freedom and safety.

This response has been erased.

but, popcorn- didn't you WANT to be a "cute little thang" for the rest of your 
life? :)
I wish my folks had taught me to control my own sugar intake- possibly using
some empirical evidence/controlled experiments, rather than doing it for me
by polemic, guilt and coersion.  I might not have done myself so much harm in
high-school, either.  But it's hard to watch a kid do something stupid without
intervening unless one has an absolute policy of non-intervention except in
life-or -death matters.

Vishnu, that's easy to say and an eternal struggle to do.

Be interested.

I think the real key has got to be giving your kids responsibility AND
treating them as if they are responsible and intelligent.  Don't let
them off TOO easily because they're 'just kids'.  Of course, this doesn't
mean you should expect them to be totally responsible, but the more you treat
someone as if they were responsible and intelligent enough to make their
own decisions, the more likely they are to act that way.  My parents treated
me that way and I think that's why I don't do QUITE as many stupid things
as I see some other people my age doing (not that I'm completely free
of stupidity, I just try not to take stupid chances or do things I don't
really want to just because it'll be 'cool' or ruffle some feathers.)
But I do sometimes wish that my parents had asked me to take a little more
responsibility--not that I'm sure what kind.  Somewhere between what I 
ended up as, someone who's afraid of authority figures, strangers, and 
things I haven't done before, and a friend of mine, who's super-responsible and
workaholic because when she was little she was doing a paper route and
ten thousand other things at once, there must be a good balance.

Thanks, lex, that about tallies with my views.  Wish I knew better how to
begin giving responsibility, when and how much.  
Do you think you are "afraid of authority figures, strangers, and things I
haven't done before" because of bad experience, too little experience, the
way your folks taught you or just by nature?  What do you think could have
made you bolder?

Well, I'm really not sure.  At all.  I've tried and tried to figure that 
out in hopes that I could avoid it when I have children, but I just don't
know.  I'd like to help you out here, but...  Well, no two children are
alike, just as no two parents are alike, and children anre not entirely
shaped by their parents (no matter how much we'd sometimes like to blame
them.)  Maybe just make sure they know how to interact in social situations.
Sorry I can't be more helpful.

        As one who is timid by nature, I would say that parents should
encourage their children to try all kinds of things, and especially
somehow get across to them that *it's all right to fail*.

re:#25- what she said!!!

I agree 100% gracel.  While I grew up encouraged to try all sorts of things
and experience life to the fullest, I was also in a household where you could
NOT fail, at anything.  My parents were the ultimate perfectionists, straight
A students (both of them) all through school and colleges.  If I ever came 
home with a grade below a B I was in _deep_ trouble.  It really made the
afraid of failing, and I was made to feel insecure if I _knew_ I couldn't do
something.  However, I was exposed to alot of life, something I think most
kids do NOT get.  At 6 years old I knew how to maintain conversation intelli-
genetly w/adults.  I knew how to behave in cultural situations, and was allowed
"adult" things (meaning foods like steak & salad, attending the ballet, theatre
etc, not "bad" things)  Now, as an adults, I am always willing to try new
things and am very open-minded.  I feel I am well versed on many things, which
children should be.  But most importantly, the one thing _most_ children are
not being taught these days is RESPECT.  For others and themselves.

The question I have is did you lose out on having a childhood?

Kimba, your childhood sounds a lot like mine.  Unfortunately, the way my
parents handled things has left me with really poor self esteem, which is
particularly sad when you consider that good self esteem and a drive for
excellence was just what they were trying to foster.  I try to come down 
somewhere in the middle: exposing the boys to lots of things, showing them
respect, encouraging their efforts, but never closing off any avenues or
disparaging their efforts.  I do wish they knew how to behave in a
slightly more respectful manner, however.

Respect.  No one is any BETTER than anyone else.  Older and holding more
authority?  Probably... but NOT better.

That sounds like a line from one of my favorite songs robc-
"I don't think that I'm better then you, but I don't think I'm worse"
or something to that effect.

re:#30- I think that'
is part of the problem: we do hold that attitude.  Now we have to teach the
boys to keep that degree of self confidence but to be polite, especially to
grownups, and to believe that other people are indeed competent.

re #30:  Well, you may think you're no better than John Wayne Gacy or
         Charles Manson, but....

re #32:  And what of girls?

This response has been erased.

Ah.  Okay.

But Aaron's comment on #30 *is* to the point.  Rob, what do you mean by
"better"?  (Your comment about respect is helpful, but I'm not inclined
to think your general statement is defensible on any reasonable
interpretation you're likely to put forward.)

Oof... Dems fightin' words.  :-)

The point is RESPECT.  Recognize others for they can accomplish things
too.  (Believe it or not.)  

I agree...most children lack respect.  I can understand a 5-year-old misbehav-
ing...kids can't be expected to do everything adults do.  However, they CAN
(and should) be taught to respect adults as well as other children.

As for did I miss out on childhood by being "pushed" so hard...no I don't think
I did.  I was _extremely_ involved as a child (ballet, tap, jazz, baton, piano,
competetive figure skating) but I did all those things because I had fun at
the same time.  I still played w/my friends, still did the little girl things,
but I had to become rational earlier than some.  I had to come to understand
what its like to get up at 4 a.m. to rehearse, then go to school, then to
classes and more rehearsal, then travel and compete, and still maintain a
normal life.  Maybe that's why now I'm open-minded and accepting of new
situations  (but uptight about getting things done unfortunately)?

One of the most important things I learned both as a kid from the way I
was parented and then watching my kids react to their father and me:

trust your kids unless/until they prove they can't be trusted.  Then
talk about it, enforce some limts and *go back to trusting them*!  Falling
down once doesn't mean they can't learn to walk, and blowing it once
doesn't mean they can't learn to be trustworthy.

When I was a small child I was "thew perfect one" or at least, I always
tried really hard to be.  I did what was expected without prompting,
I was very quiet, well behaved and respectful, etc.  (neer got my pretty
dresses dirty either.)  My reward?  In a house with 5 rowdy brothers,
I was alternately ignored or punished with the others en-masse for
something my parents assumed had gone on.

Later, when I was an adolescent, I was beaten more than once because
a friend of mine was spotted someplace I wasn't supposed to be -- even
though I was sitting back at her place or the home of one of her friend's 
unsure how to get home and waitning for her to come back.  (Yeah, I know,
some friend!)  So, after a while I started to figure that I may as well
go with her and her friends to these places because if my dad or one
of his buddies spotter *her* I was gonna get beaten anyway.  I may as
well have the "fun".

So I always try to trust my kids -- even when they've blown it big time
I've tried to find the real problem, explain to them a) how disappointed
I am at that show of poor judgement b) what would have been better in
the actual circumstances they faced, and c) what they penalty will be
for that foolish choice.  I try to make the penalty as much a natural outcome 
of the action, though.  (You didn't do your homework?  You'll have to
do an extra page a day until you're caught up and handle 45 minutes
of drudge labout for a week because that's what you'll face in the workplace
if you neglect your education.)

Their father is of the "hover and nag" school.  Children shouldn't be
trusted to be responsible until the age of 40 or when they've proven
themselves.  But heaven forbid they should have a chance to fail!

They are generally well mannered and polite with me and my friends
and except for squabbling with one another I rarely have much
cause to complain.  With their Dad, though, they are truly little
hellions.  If he isn't in the room they get away with as much as they can.
(Well, according to his reports when he asks for help, any way.  They
claim to be perfect angels at all times.)  They fight him every step
of the way on many issue even though they love him, and look forward to
spending time with him.  

Bleah. Not the kind of relationship I would want with my kids.

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss