(thanks to carson for much of the text in this item)

What are our parents like?  It'd be good to know that there are good parents,
bad parents, and that parents are human too.  How will we be as parents? 
Will we be like our own?  Will we try to be different?  How do we feel about
our parents.  Do we want to move out on them?  Are they like friends who
live with you?  Do we miss them when we go off for long periods of time? 
Do we have surrogate parents, role models that we look up to rather than
our own parents?  Do you feel your parents make good rules?  Are they ever
unreasonable?

228 responses total.

I may be a little bit too old to really be answering this, but it struck a
chord in me somehow.  I think that all parents are unreasonable at one time
or another (some more often than others to be sure!).  How can they help 
but be?  After all, they are human and far from infalible.  This is one
of the great truths that one learns as one matures.  Our parents are often 
as clueless as we are.  I am the product of broken marriage, and I think 
as such I came to this realization earlier than others.  Indeed, in my 
experience, my friends who had divorced parents were usually far more
independant in thought and action, and more aware of their parent's 
shortcomings, than my friends whose parents were still together.  The
most severe example of this that I ever saw happened in college when 
a good friend of mine told me that her parents were treating her 
like shit since they found out that she had lost her virginity the 
previous summer.  I told her, that they were being closed minded, and
that they were trying to make her live by rules that they had followed,
even though those rules made no sense in the modern world.  I said that
it was understandable that they felt the way that they did, given their
ages and religeous beleifs, but that they had no business treating her 
that way if just because she didn't agree with them.  I told her that 
she needed to make clear to her parents that their relationship had 
changed and that at age 21 she was not going to stand for them 
dictating how she would live her life.  But she couldn't do that.
She was still to in awe of her parents.  She asked me how I could 
talk that way about my elders and I told her Simple: I learned quickly
at age 9 when my parents got divorced that they were both quite imperfect.
I used to say that I love both my parents dearly, but my dad is often an
asshole, and my mom is often nuts.  She just couldn't grock it.  It took
another couple of years after this incident for her to see that I was
right.  In the meantime her parents have matured a bit too, and have 
started to respect her as an adult but it was a long time in coming.  
The same sort of relationship developed between me and my parents at a 
much earlier age.

I'm not trying to say by this that divorce is a good thing, quite the 
contrary.  But I do think that it can affect how soon one realizes 
that parents sometimes need to be told to go to hell just to keep the
relationship honest.

 Interesting topic. My view on parents is, you never miss em till there
gone, and I don't mean divorce.

   When I was a teenager, I listened to my dad about 75% of the time, but
I decined a lot of offers to do things and go places with him, thinking
that I would have the rest of my life to be with him, to do things. I got
that idea knocked out of me on April 24 1979, the day I'll never forget,
and the day he died. In retrospect, I really miss him, and I wish that I
would have done more with him, and spent the tim All I can say to you
guys is, catch the rain while it falls.
   My mother is still living, and believe me, I value every minute I spend
with her. 

My dad tends to be a lot more liberal than a lot of my friends parents.  For
example, while a lot of my friends are constantly calling their parents to
make sure the parents know where they are, and others have to do a lot of
sneaking around to make sure their parents don't catch them, and many have
curfews that they have to be home by, I really don't have to deal with that.
If I'm out late my dad wants me to call and tell him that I'm not home, but
he doesn't then get frantic if I'm not home by 2 or 3 am.  He's asleep at 
that point.  As long as I've told him I'm going to be out late, it's fine.
My dad also tends to give me a lot of freedom in terms of what I want to do.
The times when he tells me not to do something are few and very far between.
This was explained to me when I was somewhere around age 12, when I asked
him if I could do something and he replied that only I could make that
decision since he wasn't always around to make that kind of decision for me.
The effect of this is that I don't tend to do a lot of really stupid stuff,
since his parenting style has taught me to really think things through for
myself and I am not rebelling against anything.  If I've thought through 
something and decide to do it, even if it's not the decision he would have
made, my dad will generally let me do it.

This difference was really illustrated when I was out with a bunch of people
a few nights ago.  I called my dad at some point and told him that I was going
to be out late.  I came in at about 2:30 and went to bed.  My dad didn't know
what time I had come in, since he was asleep, but it really surprised some of
my friends that I told my step mom the truth the next day when she asked me
what time I came in and I didn't get in trouble.  In contrast, an other person
got yelled at when she came in sometime slightly later than that, and a third
person's mom started calling a bunch of people asking where she was when she
wasn't home sometime after 3am (making the people who got called quite mad).
Given the things I hear from other people, I have to say that my dad is a 
really cool parent.

omni slipped in:
        Yes, I know how important time spent with parents is.  You may have
noticed that I didn't mention my mom in the previous response, partly because
she really isn't a part of my current situation.  My mom died when I was
twelve, on January 5, 1990, and I do really miss her.  All of my life up
to that point my mom had been there for me, and I don't think I ever really
appreciated everything she did for me.  I can never say that I didn't spend
enough time with her, since she was a lot more involved in my life than a lot
of parents were with their kids, but I still feel like I didn't spend enough 
time with her.  Yes, some of my friends may have parents who I consider a bit
unreasonable, and yes they complain about them, but they are still lucky. 
They still have their moms.  I still remember the last thing I said to my
mom, the day before she died, as I was leaving her after visiting her in
the hospital as she underwent yet another exparamental cancer treatment. 
I said "see you tomorrow."  I never saw her again.

sgc, I think your dad is very wise.

My parents are thes scum of the Earth and their lies are to easy to see
through. The never (well, okay ONCE) spanked me for any justified reason.  My
father used the leather of his belt on my bare buttocks.  My mother denies ever
being home when this happened, and in fact blames it on a Baby-sitter who would
not have done so.  Her lie is to easy to see through.

Everything that happens around here is MY fault to my parents.   My dad can
never talk in a voice that isn't a "somebody's in trouble" voice.  They think
I don't know what time it is when I'm on Grex and have this clock right on
the windows program I'm using.  My father always needs someone to blame.
In fact, He blames my mother and I have treated himn like shit, when in fact
just the opposite is true.  If my mother dies before my father, I'm never
going home.  I don't plan on EVER taking my kids to see my abusive parents.
The goddamn drunks!  And people wonder why I'm insane!
(Oh, up there they used spanking on me until I was 12)

Vidar, 
It's hard for me to know how objective your description is, but that situation 
does sound abusive.  If it's any consolation, you're not alone.  I have several
friends who are survivors of abusive family situations.  Often alchohol is 
involved.  Parents are far from perfect beings.  One ray of hope is that 
sometimes these situations improve over the years--particulaly if the
drinkers involved give that up.  On the other hand, sometimes families 
just cannot get along.  It's sad, but it's true.  Don't give up.  Once you
are 18 your relationship with your father may change.  If it doesn't, you
can take what steps you deem necessary.

Once I'm 18 anything from my parents get's put through the paper shredder,
but only AFTER I've searched for money.  No reading involved.

woah...i have preaty nice parents.

R#9 that's rare...(sortof)

        My parents have never given me any reason to love them...when they
act incredibly assholish they give me a cheap toy...instead of apoligizing
to me or saying they're sorry(although at this point i'ld rather not have
them talk to me unless it's VERY importaint)...and i can't think of a
reason why they'ld need to...but it's just like...they think that a
package of baseball cards is going to solve all our problems...when not
faceing the problem just makes things worst. They have beat me from time
to time...but have stopped in the last 3 years thinking that i would
forget and not be mad or hurt them...but it's not that easy...and it's
just an example of them running away...i don't hate my parents...but i
sure don't like them...and even though my dad is cool at times...he's a
real asshole at others, like when he spanked me(i was 6) for goofing off
at a rec&ed little leuge(however you spell it) baseball game...he told me
stuff like i wasn't fit to be a baseball player for goofing off...i was 6
years old and he was treating the game like it was the majors...most
people when they get past teenagership they forgive their parents for
being assholish...relizing what they had to go through...but i don't think
i could ever love my parents...and although after 18 i'll go to the family
stuff...i won't keep in touch otherwise...

My parents are pretty cool most of the time because they
know I'm responsible so they'll trust me.

wow! there are some pretty heavy stories here.

I'm off to see my folks next week- in Florida, where it's currently raining 
while we have glorious sun :)  Sometimes it's hard not to be reduced to a
defensive teenager with them, although having a husband and kids helps- I fit
their stereotyped image for a daughter well enough that they don't have to be
confronted with my reality too closely.  The last big argument my mom and I 
had, she was blaming my (then THREE year old- the year from hell) son's wild
ness on the fact that I spank him.  I pointed out, meant to show that it didn't
hurt, that she spanked me more than a few times, and she went balistic: just
like a little kid- fists balled, showting "I hate you", then tripped on the 
rug and broke a vertebra.  She was prepared to blame me for that but I think
she realized she couldn't get away with it and stuck to vague implications that
I wasn't really there for her or something.  While she was in the hospital, we
had the most peaceful communication and friendship we have had in years.  That
is pretty common for out relationship:  my folks STILL want to determine the
way of my life, take personally anything that doesn't fit their illusions but
can't refrain from asking questions whose answers they won't like, yet can be
good and respectful friends when not feeling threatened

My Dad is a businessman. That's all he is.  He deals with all human interaction
as if it were a "deal".  He loves me more than anyone else in his life but
hardly knows how to show it except by trying to run my life- at least  my
material choices, asking if I am solvent, etc.  He dotes on his grandkids, so
I have the chance to show him how to interact with them.  This is very healing
for me, to see him being soft and human.  It's not that he didn't hug me or
read to me, it's just that he had no idea how to LISTEN to a kid or just be
with one.  I have also realized that my mom actually came between us, in that
she wanted to control our interactions- by pushing us to do things together,
but taking over too quickly, she managed to undermine any chance of my dad 
becoming a strong and independent parent.  I try to set Dad and Timothy going
and then step out of the way except to keep Mom from stepping in.  I
am less comfortable letting my mom spend lots of time with Timothy because they
are not really compatible and she just can't let him be himself.  Small doses
can be a civilizing influence, but I am still too young and angry to keep 
remembering that one week at a time will not do any great harm.  In the long
run, Dad and Timothy will be great friends- they can trade in knowledge- and
Mom and Gareth will feed each other's need for cuddles.  One major catch: mom
is 73 and dad is 87.  

I know I need to "put my house in order" and establish the relationship I want
before my folks die or I may never be wholey an adult in my own eyes, but I'm
not strong enough to manage it all yet.  On one hand, how can I hurt or neglect
people who are that old and who care so much.  On the other hand, how can I put
off the hard work of defining myself as a separate adult when I may only have
the living, dynamic people available for a few years, whom I must first grow
past in order to re-approach them freely.  It's a frustrating tightrope.  I 
could very easily go without seeing my folks, just talk on the phone, for a
year or more at a time.  But I can't hurt them that much or risk losing them
with so much unfinished business.  No easy solutions, I guess.

Sorry about the long post.  I hope it strikes as chord, maybe familiar, for 
some folks.

Oh, Vidar, the last time my mom tried to spank me I was about 15 or so.  She 
thought I was being rude to dad- a misunderstanding- and tried to slap my face.
I decided that was not appropriate and went to restrain her wrists. In the
ensueing dance, it was almost impossible to keep my elbows away from her ribs
and I didn't want to hurt her.  What a weird memory!  She didn't try to spank
me ever again.

re#12: Well, I think it is legal up until the child is 16.  I however, do
not find anything wrong with it so long as it is justified.  12 may be
wrong, I do remember getting a couple in Jr. High.  Exactly 2 in Eighth
grade.

My parents seem to understand only their children's tones.  The pay no
attention to their own tones.  I hate them and I always will.  At 
least when grandparents did it, 'twas justified and in a non-abusive
manner.

I do remember that a couple of months ago, one of my cousins was pissing
me off.  I do not like to go for all out pain, so I went for the embarrasment
factor (He's 14).  He actually did not try to fight it (much), but he 
did deserve it.

Abusive parents sometimes become nicer in their old ages.  Case in point:
My grandmother (mom's mom) was an abusive mother, somtimes whipping her
children with an appliance cord and often for unjustified "affronts".  Now
as a grandmother, she is the sweetest woman you could ever hope to meet. 
At some point a change just came over her.  I being the oldest grandchild can
barely remember when she was not quite so nice when I was a little kid. 
But after my youngest aunt grew up and moved out she really mellowed out. 
She has repressed all of her past abusive behavior--she really doesn't
remember it--and she's not like that any more, so why bring it up with
her?  But my Aunts and Uncle all agree that she was an abusive parent. 
So, you never know what may happen.  You should always be ready to give
your parents a second chance.  People do change.

NEVER!  That is a sin against Odin, you fool!

heh...

If you're not going to respond intellegentlly, do not respond at all.

Well now it seems my parents have a reason to be assholes.  Though I can
never forgive them for what they did when I was young, this *is* forgivable.
I am not going to give the justification, as it is just as well I don't.
Were Joe Gilsdorf to get his hands on such information, I think he'd commit
a murder,
(oops, .)  However, they are still rahter stupid in their tone.  They
attempt me to notice that they don't mean it that way.

What the hell are they doing?  They order me around as if I'm their slave,
if only because I'm the strongest person in the house.  My mother has this
annoying habbit of telling me to do something when I'm already half-way
the other direction.  She says she doesn't mean immediatly, yeah right, and
I'm the king of Norway.

Today, we were packing stuff in boxex both for donation, and stuff to take
on the move.  And after that thing where the modem didn't hang up,
everbody got pissed.  More later...

That of course, was understandable under the circumstances.  However,
I as a young man take notes on what parents do wrong, inscribe them in
my head, and swear by Odin's blood never to do them as a father.
Strangley enough, most of these wrong doings are apparent in
Christian Households.  Mainly I get this information from Tom Biancalana's
father(s).

I understand some of these things occasionally.  Tom didn't take his
medication for hyperactivity yesterday.  I thought sure he was going to
get grounde for the way he was acting,

I have a very strange relationship with my parents. I know that they care about
me, but I have no respect for them or any trust in them. Its a long story. Just
bear with me.
        I lived the average childhood. Got traumatized by my brother, but other
        than that, nothing big happened. During the summer of 1984, my parents
        told me they were separating, but a couple of months later, they got
        back together again.
Then, 6 years later, my dad sat me down and said, "Son, do you remember that
time when me and your ther broke up?" (by this time my parents had been 2 years
divorced) "Well during that period of separation, I had a daughter. I didn't
tell you about her  Because it was socially unacceptable."

!write davidtg
!write davidtg

Sorry. Modem problems. As I was saying My dad told me about my sister 6 years
after he had her in an affair. At that moment, I just cried. I was angry beyond
the point of violence. I couldn't believe it. Just because he thought that
having a kid in an 

hasn't told his own parents.
        I'd also like to bitch about my dad's girfriend for a while. It's only
        natural for me to resent  her presence and be defensive against her,
        but I think that I'm neglected by my dad. He does all sorts of shit for
        her, and then leaves me in the dust For example, I had repeatedly
        expressed interest in going to see Tommy the musical. Then one sunday
        afternoon, he said "See ya in a few hours, I'm going to see tommy with
        marybeth. That really hurt my feelings. I don't know where my mom came
        into play during all of this, but I know that if she trusted me she
        would have told me, regardless of what my dad wanted.
,

Dealing with the weirdness of having divorced parents can really suck.
I can see how you'd feel hurt in the above Tommy situation.  And I know
that I'd go balistic if I found out that my father had another kid, 
even at the ripe old age of 30!  I still have resentments about my
father's girlfriends as well.  He got remarried back in 1987 and I 
DID have a fit then.  By that point in my life I was old enough that 
the rational part of me said Hey if he wants to get married to somone
that's his business.  I can understand that .  But the emotional part of
me felt abandonded, cheated, turned upsidedown, and scandalized that he
would do this, particularly with a woman who is 15 years his junior.
(That's right campers, add it up, she is a lot closer to my age than his.)
See? Bitterness even now.  I think this syndrome is unavoidable with 
parents because we grow up with an image of our parents as parents and 
not as people.  We don't really see them as sexual beings.  Look at it
this way.  If one of your friends were very sexually promiscuous you 
might now think much of it.  But if your Dad is it causes great resentment
and pain.  That's because parents are not people to us they are parents.
As I've gotten older Ive been able to understand these kinds of things 
better intellectually, but it doesn't really affect my feelings.  They
are still the same.

I used to feel a great deal of resentment towards my dad's girlfriend (who is
now my step-mom).  I felt as if she was somehow replacing my mom, and it made
me mad at my dad because I somehow felt he was not being faithful to my mom.
I finally got around that by remembering that he was a person with needs, and
by thinking back to every wedding I had ever seen remembering the lines "'till
death do us part."  I just had to keep remembering that my dad had kept to
that vow and shouldn't be expected to do anymore than that.  In the end, 
accepting my step mom took accepting that my mom was gone.  That was the hard
part.

About that information I mentioned earlier...
Joe has it but there is nothing he can do.  My sister and her abusive boyfriend
have moved to Mexico.

However, this item is about parents.  I still think my parents are assholes.
I never forgive them for anything.  EVER, from that day mentioned in Sex item
28 I believe...

Lately my father's become kind of emotionally abusive. He's taken to calling  
me "Fuck up" most of the time. It really hurts.

Oooo, You're so abused.  You want to talk abuse?  Talk about Physical.

Any kind of abuse, physical, sexual, or emotional, is bad.  Which is worse is
probably something that will be debated for years.

yea Steve, Okay...  I'll see you in the Student Centre Tomorrow.

Don't be a prick, vidar. I not asking for your smart asserie. This is a conf  
about parents, not what kind of abuse is worse. Fuck off.

It may be that, barring such irreversable damage as head injuries, the worst
part of physical abuse is the emotional component; corporal punishment can be
used in a cosistent, reasoned, non-humiliating or terrifying way.  Words can
be used to ruin a person's self esteem for life.  I think that's the key. 

By the way, I seem to have returned from my parents' house with ego intact. A
nice change.  Don't know if I'm growing up, if they're backing off a bit, or 
if husband and kids provide a buffer.  I suspect the latter.

You know, I grew up with the idea that abuse or severe and dangerous mental
illness were the only reasonable grounds for divorce.  I later came to believe
that it is better for a couple to split up while they can still respect one
another, recognize the traits they first liked in one another, maybe come to
be friends again in time.  I wished my folks to have split up and shown me two
whole and happy individualo




(oops, try again-) individuals rather than a destructive and hurtful pattern
for marriage.  I am still working to create a better paradigm, but lately I
see my parents being kinder, more loving, more supportive to one another, so
perhaps in their old age (dad is 87) they are learning the same lessons I now
struggle with.  That is inspiring.

My parents will never be granted forgiveness.  They can go ahead and live
their lie, but I may make them find out.  Then I will laugh at their
funerals.  It may be sick, but so are my asshole parents.  They didn't
realize that kids who are lied to remember it forever.  Another part of
that lie is my mother's saying she never personally spanked me.  Um, I 
mean after the end of babyhood.  You know what I think: BULL FUCKING
SHIT.  She also claimed it was but one slap, Sure, and I'm the king of
Norway.  Not home when my father did it?  BULL SHIT!
(And my sister will back it up for me)  They claim my memories are lying to me.
BULL FUCKING SHIT.  My memories NEVER, EVER, EVER lie.  I only remember the
bitter truth.

        -Parent Killer

Vidar it is common for parents to "forget" things that they'd 
rather not remember.  My parents are both staunchly against
corproal punishment, but they did hit me a couple of times (nothing
serious-mostly just humiliating).  They do not remember this.  They 
deny it up and down.  But I know it happend because I remember it. 
just as you do.  You need to get used to this kind of thing.  It 
happens everywhere.  The world is not in the least bit fair.
The kind of rage that you display regularly here indicates that 
you are very upset about your home life.  Are you really being 
abused (by society's standards--not just your own), or are you 
just unhappy about your situation?  If you truely feel that it is the
former, you should document each instance of abuse.  Just write it down
in detail, take pictures of yourself etc.  That way, when the time comes,
you will be able to make others believe your story.  You will be in a
position to confront your parents.  If you do not do this, chances are
that most people will assume that your parents were no worse than any
one else's and that you are just being rebelious and unreasonable.

They live a lie, they die a lie.  I'd really like to see how well
they'd do against a polygraph.

facelift: Can you be anymore insulting?  Sarcasim is one thing,
but being an ass is another.  I really don't consider it abuse
because I don't give an airborne rodent sexual intercourse
what other people think about me.  Be yourself, ignore verbal
abuse.  Physical and the others are all that really matter.

Verbal abuse for some is just as bad as physical- if that is all parents
ever give you- verbal abuse I mean.
I have to say that, after reading this I've realized how very lucky
I have been.  My parents love each other, and respect each other-
thereby giving me a good idea of what a marriage should be.  In this
world people who have been married for 25 years, like my parents,
are pretty rare.  I don't remember ever really fighting with my
parents, and now that I'm at college our realationship has really
changed.  My only problem is with my dad, he doesn't seem to know
how to relate to me at all. He should, I mean he was practically
a father to his five younger sisters, but for me- I can't remember
having a serious important conversation with him.  It's rather scary-
but if my dad died I don't think it would upset me nearly as much as
if my mom died.  My mom is the person I always talk to, she's the one
I miss when I'm away.  And I think that's sad. I think that most parent
child relationships in this society are sad and could use help.

If my parents died in an accident and the police told me...
I'd tell them that it's not bad news at all.  I'd laugh my ass off.

Vidar, I have to apologize...I was a bit on edge that afternoon. I'm sorry,
man. To respond to what you've kept up as "the I don't care mode" in this
entire conference-maybe you were so hurt by the way your parents treated you,
you decided That no matter how bad it was, you wouldn't let it hurt you. Not
very construc-tive. It's just going to fester inside you until when you finally
have the guts to say "I was hurt" instead of "It pissed me off", it'll hurt a
lot more. I'm not preaching, if that's what you think, but during the situation
between me,  my dad, and my sister, I was going around pissed off until a few
years of therapy got me to realized that I wasn't angry, I was hurt. I guess
that's all I can say, except apologizing again. I admit it was totally uncalled
for.

Okay.   Look, I'll admit that I'm hurt.  And how my parents abused
me hurt (physically).  But I will not be hurt by their deaths.
It will be good news to me.  

Re# Whpever siad it: They should realize that children "remember,"
what the parents chose to "forget".  Kids know when they have been
lied to.  The only reason I didn't tell anyone then, is becuase
I knew it would get me in trouble.  Parents DON'T want their kids
to tell them the truth.  If they did, they wouldn't lie (at least
such transparent lies) to their kids.  If and When I have kids,
I swear by the sacred blood of Odin that I will never:
Mistreat Them,
Lie to them,
"forget" things that I'd rather not remember

Thos parents who "forget," are usually haunted every night by the
truth.  I've done some stupid things that have haunted my 
subconcious for 5-7 years (depending on when I did it).
What I consider justifeid is a reason that is logical.  Or one
that has some purpose.  This is one reason I know it was never
justified except that once.  The other reasons made no sense,
except that my mother or father felt like abusing me by 
spanking me.

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss